Comments on: Report: S&P downgrades Zuffa’s credit rating http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/ Your Destination for Insider MMA News and Opinion Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:18:55 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: NealTaflinger http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-7140 NealTaflinger Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:34:14 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/#comment-7140 I'm with a lot of what El Boxeo and Accomando are saying. Both boxing and MMA have serious issues, but human history has proved that it's hard to go wrong selling sex, drugs, or violence. The fan base is there for MMA, but a lot of it is in the teenagers coming in to my gym in Affliction shirts. A fifteen year old isn't buying PPVs yet, he's catching up on webtv or sharing videos with friends. In 5-6 years, he's throwing house parties for every good UFC card. Boxing has had a bad run but good personalities and exciting fighters like Hatton will lead to a surge in popularity. I honestly think that MMA will have a positive impact on other combat sports. People will get drawn in by the "craziness" of MMA but then decide, "hey, I like kickboxing / boxing / submission grappling the best" and start focusing more on those sports. Long story short, this is a blip on the radar, and there is going to be a lot more upheaval in the industry before it settles down. I’m with a lot of what El Boxeo and Accomando are saying. Both boxing and MMA have serious issues, but human history has proved that it’s hard to go wrong selling sex, drugs, or violence. The fan base is there for MMA, but a lot of it is in the teenagers coming in to my gym in Affliction shirts. A fifteen year old isn’t buying PPVs yet, he’s catching up on webtv or sharing videos with friends. In 5-6 years, he’s throwing house parties for every good UFC card.

Boxing has had a bad run but good personalities and exciting fighters like Hatton will lead to a surge in popularity. I honestly think that MMA will have a positive impact on other combat sports. People will get drawn in by the “craziness” of MMA but then decide, “hey, I like kickboxing / boxing / submission grappling the best” and start focusing more on those sports.

Long story short, this is a blip on the radar, and there is going to be a lot more upheaval in the industry before it settles down.

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]]> By: Accomando http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-7139 Accomando Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:18:20 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/#comment-7139 First off Sam, I agree 100%, MMA hit its plateau right before Liddell/Rampage, which was a pathetic fight, and really hurt the momentum of the sport. Turned a lot of people off. "...and remember.. that boxing doesnt have a weekly show.. or nearly half the stuff the ufc does on spike.." Wrong, boxng has the contender series which is exactly what the TUF series is, minus all the ignorance and beer fests. Also, Boxing is on Versus, ESPN 2, ESPN Classic, HBO, boxing content is out there. People saying "boxing is dead" are really dumb. Boxing really got its act together this year, and just slayed the UFC in PPV earnings, and that is even before the Hatton/Mayweather fight. Even my dad wants to buy that fight on PPV for $50 due to the 24/7 series on HBO, which is due to HBO production. Boxing is gaining viewers with the fights that have been set up lately and boxing has MMA to thank for that, because MMA gave boxing a kick in the ass, it really did. So, both sports ain't going nowhere, but MMA's explosive growth has hit its apex. That is of course, until the UFC ends up on CBS, if that happens, then the sky is the limit. I think it might have been a ploy on CBS's part to get the writers back at the negotiating table, but we shall see. The CBS deal could be huge for MMA. First off Sam, I agree 100%, MMA hit its plateau right before Liddell/Rampage, which was a pathetic fight, and really hurt the momentum of the sport. Turned a lot of people off.

“…and remember.. that boxing doesnt have a weekly show.. or nearly half the stuff the ufc does on spike..”

Wrong, boxng has the contender series which is exactly what the TUF series is, minus all the ignorance and beer fests.

Also, Boxing is on Versus, ESPN 2, ESPN Classic, HBO, boxing content is out there. People saying “boxing is dead” are really dumb. Boxing really got its act together this year, and just slayed the UFC in PPV earnings, and that is even before the Hatton/Mayweather fight. Even my dad wants to buy that fight on PPV for $50 due to the 24/7 series on HBO, which is due to HBO production.

Boxing is gaining viewers with the fights that have been set up lately and boxing has MMA to thank for that, because MMA gave boxing a kick in the ass, it really did.

So, both sports ain’t going nowhere, but MMA’s explosive growth has hit its apex. That is of course, until the UFC ends up on CBS, if that happens, then the sky is the limit. I think it might have been a ploy on CBS’s part to get the writers back at the negotiating table, but we shall see.

The CBS deal could be huge for MMA.

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]]> By: el boxeo http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-7125 el boxeo Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:46:18 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/#comment-7125 and remember.. that boxing doesnt have a weekly show.. or nearly half the stuff the ufc does on spike.. yet they can still sell mega fights and build fighters .. if THE SPORT IS EXCITING ENOUGH YOU DONT NEED TO HAVE SOMEONE TELL YOU WHO IS GOOD OR WHO YOU NEED TO WATCH.. ufc seems to think that if they arent in their organizaition, they dont matter... and once the money start flowing is when mma can really take off... im sure that im sure those hbo negotiations were hilarious .. wonder what hbo said to dana when he wanted to show the ufc on hbo with the ufc handling production ... and remember.. that boxing doesnt have a weekly show.. or nearly half the stuff the ufc does on spike.. yet they can still sell mega fights and build fighters .. if THE SPORT IS EXCITING ENOUGH YOU DONT NEED TO HAVE SOMEONE TELL YOU WHO IS GOOD OR WHO YOU NEED TO WATCH..

ufc seems to think that if they arent in their organizaition, they dont matter…

and once the money start flowing is when mma can really take off… im sure that

im sure those hbo negotiations were hilarious .. wonder what hbo said to dana when he wanted to show the ufc on hbo with the ufc handling production …

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]]> By: el boxeo http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-7123 el boxeo Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:28:00 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/#comment-7123 hell yeah boxing promoters are the worst... corrupt / steal from fighters.. but its a free market and what balances everything out is everybody is trying to either make the best fight or make their fighter the most amount of money.. cause its in the promotoers interest to have them get paid cause they get paid... having like 10 diffrent promoters without one real monopoly allows for the almighty doller to reign supreme... in the ufc system its not that much in thier interest to have high paid fighters because they are the monopoly.. they figure that they make the fighters rather than the other way around... they might belive that now because of the success of fighters like hughes or couture or liddell but there about out the door and the only way they seem to grow fighters through the public is tuf or pride... its more about the ufc than the fighters... its like pro wrestling... it was really popular with the stars of the late 90s but now its borderline fading away... and they are really the only show in town... you guys ever wonder how boxing (which is a dead sport in the media and news prints eyes) can at any given time have superstar fights that make millions for fighters and promoters... and yet boxing is considered dead... imo once the ufc monopoly goes away , mma will be more fighter / promoter based like boxing rather than fighter / federation which is like pro wrestling.... for the sport to survive its in the best interest for capitalism to be in effect and have the fighters make the most amount of money in the free market... fights like randy v. fedor will always be made in that type of system but in the present ufc system.. these fights wont be made unless you sign your life away.. like fedor wasnt willing to do.... boxing is full of manadtory wack defenses/ bs rankings / corruption but considering its a free market, the super money mega fights can and will always be made... even the ufc with trying to get pride and wec is trying to "show" that there is a free market type of competion out there but its really smoke and mirrors.. just like the wwe and their "brands" of diffrnt wrestlng shows... ufc will eventually be a promotional organization rather than the fighting organization it is now... once the real money starts flowing in from other directions... and the ufc doesnt need to have every month a "validation" ufc 1002 ... they are gonna run out of words soon... instead of having to do a show and oversaturate the market.. they should follow boxing or even elite xc and do shows when its necessary and sure things... if the ufc wouldve done have the shows this year .. would they have lost anymore money than they seem to be by not doing 12 shows a year plus little tv. shows... hell yeah boxing promoters are the worst… corrupt / steal from fighters.. but its a free market and what balances everything out is everybody is trying to either make the best fight or make their fighter the most amount of money.. cause its in the promotoers interest to have them get paid cause they get paid… having like 10 diffrent promoters without one real monopoly allows for the almighty doller to reign supreme…

in the ufc system its not that much in thier interest to have high paid fighters because they are the monopoly.. they figure that they make the fighters rather than the other way around… they might belive that now because of the success of fighters like hughes or couture or liddell but there about out the door and the only way they seem to grow fighters through the public is tuf or pride…

its more about the ufc than the fighters… its like pro wrestling… it was really popular with the stars of the late 90s but now its borderline fading away… and they are really the only show in town…

you guys ever wonder how boxing (which is a dead sport in the media and news prints eyes) can at any given time have superstar fights that make millions for fighters and promoters… and yet boxing is considered dead…

imo once the ufc monopoly goes away , mma will be more fighter / promoter based like boxing rather than fighter / federation which is like pro wrestling….

for the sport to survive its in the best interest for capitalism to be in effect and have the fighters make the most amount of money in the free market… fights like randy v. fedor will always be made in that type of system but in the present ufc system.. these fights wont be made unless you sign your life away.. like fedor wasnt willing to do….

boxing is full of manadtory wack defenses/ bs rankings / corruption but considering its a free market, the super money mega fights can and will always be made…

even the ufc with trying to get pride and wec is trying to “show” that there is a free market type of competion out there but its really smoke and mirrors.. just like the wwe and their “brands” of diffrnt wrestlng shows…

ufc will eventually be a promotional organization rather than the fighting organization it is now… once the real money starts flowing in from other directions…

and the ufc doesnt need to have every month a “validation” ufc 1002 … they are gonna run out of words soon… instead of having to do a show and oversaturate the market.. they should follow boxing or even elite xc and do shows when its necessary and sure things…

if the ufc wouldve done have the shows this year .. would they have lost anymore money than they seem to be by not doing 12 shows a year plus little tv. shows…

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]]> By: GB http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-7118 GB Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:54:39 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/#comment-7118 Having worked in financial journalism for a couple of years, I believe you shouldn't take these credit ratings as the overtly authoritative assessments most think they are. Slight credit downgrades like that one can be transitory and in any event a BB- is not necessarily bad under Zuffa's circumstances. You have to wonder how much these analysts know about MMA in the first place, whether they are comparing Zuffa's business model to those applied in other sports and what is their methodology to begin with. I can't help but think that five years ago these same analysts would have probably given Zuffa a snowball's chance in hell of being successful. Having worked in financial journalism for a couple of years, I believe you shouldn’t take these credit ratings as the overtly authoritative assessments most think they are. Slight credit downgrades like that one can be transitory and in any event a BB- is not necessarily bad under Zuffa’s circumstances. You have to wonder how much these analysts know about MMA in the first place, whether they are comparing Zuffa’s business model to those applied in other sports and what is their methodology to begin with. I can’t help but think that five years ago these same analysts would have probably given Zuffa a snowball’s chance in hell of being successful.

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]]> By: a. hieronymous http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-7117 a. hieronymous Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:31:39 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/#comment-7117 yeah...much as i love to see 'em duke it out i'd rather watch a technical ground game. that's a big part of why i watch mma in the first place... but i have to admit that i'm in the minority; most folks would rather watch a slugfest. i like the idea of fighters having bigger names the the promotions they fight for. although the promoters in bosing aren't exactly choirboys either! yeah…much as i love to see ‘em duke it out i’d rather watch a technical ground game. that’s a big part of why i watch mma in the first place…

but i have to admit that i’m in the minority; most folks would rather watch a slugfest.

i like the idea of fighters having bigger names the the promotions they fight for. although the promoters in bosing aren’t exactly choirboys either!

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]]> By: Dizzle http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-7116 Dizzle Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:13:24 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/#comment-7116 el boxeo Boxing is a great sport. No doubt I watched boxing (kickboxing mostly) before I ever watched any type of MMA fight. Boxing is a great sport...but it can be just as boring as MMA alot of the time. MMA is much more strategic and that is what will win the crowds over. I'd much rather see a submission any day than a knockout. el boxeo Boxing is a great sport. No doubt I watched boxing (kickboxing mostly) before I ever watched any type of MMA fight. Boxing is a great sport…but it can be just as boring as MMA alot of the time. MMA is much more strategic and that is what will win the crowds over. I’d much rather see a submission any day than a knockout.

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]]> By: dsid http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-7114 dsid Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:23:57 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/#comment-7114 MMA is just out of the starting gate and there are millions of people who still have no clue what it is *at all*. Think about it. Right now their big exposure is through Spike TV, a miniscule little cable channel that very few people watch (and those who do watch it have mostly come in via the UFC, not the other way around). Wait until they ink a deal with ESPN, or HBO (if that comes back up), or one of the big networks, which could happen pretty soon given the current writer's strike and how badly those guys will be hurting for programming. Then things are really going to be crazy. This little credit rating issue is a totally minor blip for a sport that's still in its adolescence. MMA is just out of the starting gate and there are millions of people who still have no clue what it is *at all*. Think about it. Right now their big exposure is through Spike TV, a miniscule little cable channel that very few people watch (and those who do watch it have mostly come in via the UFC, not the other way around).

Wait until they ink a deal with ESPN, or HBO (if that comes back up), or one of the big networks, which could happen pretty soon given the current writer’s strike and how badly those guys will be hurting for programming. Then things are really going to be crazy.

This little credit rating issue is a totally minor blip for a sport that’s still in its adolescence.

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]]> By: el boxeo http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-7113 el boxeo Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:49:30 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/#comment-7113 "Before time Boxing will be a thing of the past." yeah right... im sure your average mma fan is really excited to watch a ground an pound or wrestling match rather than have two fighters exchange haymakers in the center of the octagon... and boxing is closer to what? wrestling..... people will always tune in for the KO .... nobody enjoys a wrestling match over a boxing match.... last i checked boxing is about punching people in the face for 3 minutes a round.. unless your name is floyd mayweather...lol “Before time Boxing will be a thing of the past.”

yeah right…

im sure your average mma fan is really excited to watch a ground an pound or wrestling match rather than have two fighters exchange haymakers in the center of the octagon…

and boxing is closer to what? wrestling….. people will always tune in for the KO …. nobody enjoys a wrestling match over a boxing match….

last i checked boxing is about punching people in the face for 3 minutes a round.. unless your name is floyd mayweather…lol

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]]> By: el boxeo http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-7112 el boxeo Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:46:08 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/11/27/report-sp-downgrades-zuffas-credit-rating/#comment-7112 boxing is not only more popular than mma world wide.. but its still wayy more popular in america considering that many immigrants that live here still follow boxing... boxing is more popular in united kingdom than mma will ever be... joe calzaghe /ricky hatton anyone??? i was in vegas when hatton fought castillo and it was amazing how many people followed this guy... and dec. 8 there talking about 30k... but as i was stating before...what will make or break mma is when it follows the boxing model.. cause that is where it will end up if it stays popular and the fighters still get paid like garbage... and if the product is as good as it seems ..then it will survive and thrive.... the more popular mma is the less control the ufc will have... wrestling was extremely poplular in late 90's but now its a shell of itself.. ufc will be like that if they follow what they are doing... mma isnt even as popular as boxing here in america.. but worldwide..come on... not even in latin america or asia is mma in the same league as boxing... once mma opens it up to get rid of federations but have rather promotional companies that promote fighters is when mma will truly pass its test to see if its gonna stay for a while... there are many fighters out there who cannot fight great matchups cause they arent signed to ufc or ufc wont co promote... so its not about the super fight or fighters but its about the company.... boxing is not only more popular than mma world wide.. but its still wayy more popular in america considering that many immigrants that live here still follow boxing…

boxing is more popular in united kingdom than mma will ever be…

joe calzaghe /ricky hatton anyone??? i was in vegas when hatton fought castillo and it was amazing how many people followed this guy… and dec. 8 there talking about 30k…

but as i was stating before…what will make or break mma is when it follows the boxing model.. cause that is where it will end up if it stays popular and the fighters still get paid like garbage… and if the product is as good as it seems ..then it will survive and thrive….

the more popular mma is the less control the ufc will have… wrestling was extremely poplular in late 90’s but now its a shell of itself.. ufc will be like that if they follow what they are doing…

mma isnt even as popular as boxing here in america.. but worldwide..come on… not even in latin america or asia is mma in the same league as boxing…

once mma opens it up to get rid of federations but have rather promotional companies that promote fighters is when mma will truly pass its test to see if its gonna stay for a while… there are many fighters out there who cannot fight great matchups cause they arent signed to ufc or ufc wont co promote… so its not about the super fight or fighters but its about the company….

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