Comments on: Mass Fighter Exodus from the UFC? http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/ Your Destination for Insider MMA News and Opinion Sat, 26 May 2012 01:29:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: glock http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-16276 glock Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:35:15 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/#comment-16276 Let him go, who give a fu#& ?? UFC has plenty of HW talent to keep us interested lesner and kongo come to my mojito infused mind pretty quickly.. Tito who?? Let him go, who give a fu#& ?? UFC has plenty of HW talent to keep us interested
lesner and kongo come to my mojito infused mind pretty quickly..
Tito who??

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]]> By: treebranch http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-16183 treebranch Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:09:03 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/#comment-16183 "While I’m sure he wouldn’t be eager to jump in the cage with Fedor, if you pay Tito the right amount of money, he’ll fight just about anyone." And that is exactly why Tito hasn't accomplished anything in MMA in the recent years. Tito only cares about money (which I can't blame him), but in MMA you need to love what you're doing. Chuck, Couture, and all the stars LOVE to fight. They take on all comers. Not Tito. He should want to fight Fedor to prove he is the best. But, No, it's all about the money. “While I’m sure he wouldn’t be eager to jump in the cage with Fedor, if you pay Tito the right amount of money, he’ll fight just about anyone.”

And that is exactly why Tito hasn’t accomplished anything in MMA in the recent years. Tito only cares about money (which I can’t blame him), but in MMA you need to love what you’re doing. Chuck, Couture, and all the stars LOVE to fight. They take on all comers. Not Tito. He should want to fight Fedor to prove he is the best. But, No, it’s all about the money.

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]]> By: mike wolfe http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-16153 mike wolfe Thu, 21 Feb 2008 03:12:14 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/#comment-16153 I'd be surprised if Sylvia left. He's always focused on the UFC belt, and I've never seen anything suggesting he's unhappy in the UFC. I’d be surprised if Sylvia left. He’s always focused on the UFC belt, and I’ve never seen anything suggesting he’s unhappy in the UFC.

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]]> By: Andrej http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-16148 Andrej Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:40:25 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/#comment-16148 Tito Leaving would not hurt the UFC as much because of his fights of late. Why would the UFC resign this guy. This guy had a draw with Rashad Evans who he should have walked through. I just don't get why it is such a huge loss if they let go of Tito Ortiz. He hasn't even fought in a main event in such a long time? Tim Sylvia I don't see leaving. He has a rematch with Frank Mir or Nogueira 2 if he want's. He has beaten good comp in Brandon Vera and Jeff Monson. I just don't see him going. Andre Arlovski has been very boring of late. His fights with Fabricio Werdum and Tim Sylvia makes you question if his heart is in it. He was exciting but not anymore. Maybe EliteXC will want him for a dollar. Tito Leaving would not hurt the UFC as much because of his fights of late. Why would the UFC resign this guy. This guy had a draw with Rashad Evans who he should have walked through. I just don’t get why it is such a huge loss if they let go of Tito Ortiz. He hasn’t even fought in a main event in such a long time?

Tim Sylvia I don’t see leaving. He has a rematch with Frank Mir or Nogueira 2 if he want’s. He has beaten good comp in Brandon Vera and Jeff Monson. I just don’t see him going.

Andre Arlovski has been very boring of late. His fights with Fabricio Werdum and Tim Sylvia makes you question if his heart is in it. He was exciting but not anymore. Maybe EliteXC will want him for a dollar.

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]]> By: Mike Wolfe http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-16145 Mike Wolfe Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:20:42 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/#comment-16145 How do we know that Tito wants to stay? As Cyphron points out. light heavy has a lot of depth in the UFC. Tito would be better off moving to an org. where he's top of the food chain and not buried in the middle of the ranks or lower. If he signs with an org. with less depth, casual fans will still be impressed if he beats fighters who wouldn't be competitive in the UFC. A series of wins will enhance is "star power" more than a tough losses against better quality opponents. I say Tito's best decision is to move on, and he's smart enough to know it. How do we know that Tito wants to stay? As Cyphron points out. light heavy has a lot of depth in the UFC. Tito would be better off moving to an org. where he’s top of the food chain and not buried in the middle of the ranks or lower. If he signs with an org. with less depth, casual fans will still be impressed if he beats fighters who wouldn’t be competitive in the UFC. A series of wins will enhance is “star power” more than a tough losses against better quality opponents. I say Tito’s best decision is to move on, and he’s smart enough to know it.

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]]> By: Evan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-16106 Evan Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:38:54 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/#comment-16106 "Star Power has nothing to do with being successful….plain and simple." But eventually you have to do something with that star power. Proof of that is why Fedor is taking so much heat nowadays. “Star Power has nothing to do with being successful….plain and simple.”

But eventually you have to do something with that star power. Proof of that is why Fedor is taking so much heat nowadays.

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]]> By: bjjdenver http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-16104 bjjdenver Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:37:25 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/#comment-16104 Mass exodus= Tito, Timmy and AA?? Tito would probably be the biggest loss, even if you consider him to be irrelevant at this point. Fact is he is highly visible to the casual fan and an org like EXC adding him would give them instant legitimacy and recognition. Tim would only be a loss because, imo, the HWs are the weakest division and letting him become available to M1/K1/EXC/anyone would add to the possible matchups they could promote, i.e. Fedor/Tim, CC/Time, etc. AA is the biggest loss to me. He still has a broad fan base and the skill set to be the champ. However, he has looked bad or cautious in his recent fights and average UFC fan has no patience for that. Also for the same reasons as Tim. I really can't see the UFC letting AA and Tim both go. For some reason, I expect to see them stay with the UFC. Mass exodus= Tito, Timmy and AA??

Tito would probably be the biggest loss, even if you consider him to be irrelevant at this point. Fact is he is highly visible to the casual fan and an org like EXC adding him would give them instant legitimacy and recognition.

Tim would only be a loss because, imo, the HWs are the weakest division and letting him become available to M1/K1/EXC/anyone would add to the possible matchups they could promote, i.e. Fedor/Tim, CC/Time, etc.

AA is the biggest loss to me. He still has a broad fan base and the skill set to be the champ. However, he has looked bad or cautious in his recent fights and average UFC fan has no patience for that. Also for the same reasons as Tim.

I really can’t see the UFC letting AA and Tim both go. For some reason, I expect to see them stay with the UFC.

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]]> By: Gabber http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-16103 Gabber Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:32:59 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/#comment-16103 I think you guys are looking at it in the wrong light. Star Power has nothing to do with being successful....plain and simple. Tito is more popular outisde of UFC then he is inside the "hardcore fan collective". How many people watch Celebrity Apprentice every week? Compare that to how many buys most UFC events get.... Not even close. The Neilsen rating on the show is through the roof and they've already signed on for more seasons... Think of all the people that know of him through Jenna. It's crazy, the guy is going to glow with MegaStar Power... That equates to more pub for the UFC and more PPV buys.... And talk about a guy who is on his way down. Randy got knocked out twice and retired, came back and wiped the floor with two "Top 10 HW's" Tito has been dominant before, he can do it again. Better for the UFC if he tries to do it there instead of giving Mark Cuban 500,000 PPV buys for him fighting Fedor. :P I think you guys are looking at it in the wrong light.

Star Power has nothing to do with being successful….plain and simple.

Tito is more popular outisde of UFC then he is inside the “hardcore fan collective”.

How many people watch Celebrity Apprentice every week?

Compare that to how many buys most UFC events get….

Not even close. The Neilsen rating on the show is through the roof and they’ve already signed on for more seasons…

Think of all the people that know of him through Jenna.

It’s crazy, the guy is going to glow with MegaStar Power…

That equates to more pub for the UFC and more PPV buys….

And talk about a guy who is on his way down. Randy got knocked out twice and retired, came back and wiped the floor with two “Top 10 HW’s”

Tito has been dominant before, he can do it again. Better for the UFC if he tries to do it there instead of giving Mark Cuban 500,000 PPV buys for him fighting Fedor. :P

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]]> By: Evan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-16075 Evan Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:42:54 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/#comment-16075 "But the bottom line is that he’s a star and stars in MMA are at a premium right now" My argument has always been that Tito's star power is rapidly dropping. You can only have a propped up star for so long and his mouth will become more tiresome as his results continue to disappoint. Be it that he hasn’t evolved with the rest of MMA or he is simply hosting too many injuries not many really considers him a contender anymore. I just looked at several mma sites and including this one nobody has him in top 10 that I saw for LHW. What benefit would the UFC have in signing him to a large contract? How many more times can he draw on a card with such poor results? “But the bottom line is that he’s a star and stars in MMA are at a premium right now”

My argument has always been that Tito’s star power is rapidly dropping.

You can only have a propped up star for so long and his mouth will become more tiresome as his results continue to disappoint. Be it that he hasn’t evolved with the rest of MMA or he is simply hosting too many injuries not many really considers him a contender anymore.

I just looked at several mma sites and including this one nobody has him in top 10 that I saw for LHW.

What benefit would the UFC have in signing him to a large contract? How many more times can he draw on a card with such poor results?

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]]> By: cyphron http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-16070 cyphron Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:05:40 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/#comment-16070 The problem is that there are so many fighters that can be on a roster. The UFC boast the biggest influx of great up and comers out there as well as top veterans. You have Lyoto, Wanderlei, Shogun, Nogueira, etc . coming in and winning or putting on great fights. And then you have the the Tito and Arlovski who are on a losing streak or are putting on boring fights... but yet they demand "winner's" money. Something's gotta give right? Who would you rather lose: Machida, Shogun, Wanderlei, Nogueira, Lesnar OR Sylvia, Arlovski, Tito? There's only a finite amount of money to be spread around. When you put up with the demands that losing fighters ask for, then you must pay the winners more. As fighter's salaries rised, so has the price for the PPV. Every one would like fighters to get paid big bucks, but are you ready to pay $5 to $10 more for PPV? When fighter's pay rises, either buy rates have to rise as well, or PPV prices must rise. Since 2007 PPV buy rates stayed the same, guess what? 2008 PPV prices have risen. Sure, the UFC is taking in 40 mill profits, but they're paying $28 mil in interests on their loans. Lets not forget the staff salaries as well as marketing and expansion costs. When sports leagues make $4 billion in revenues, a $100 mil staff, marketing expense budget is only 2.5% of revenues. When the UFC makes 200 mil in revenues, a staff budget of 50 mil is 25% of revenues. Why do I have a feeling that the UFC isn't making as much money as we all believe? The problem is that there are so many fighters that can be on a roster. The UFC boast the biggest influx of great up and comers out there as well as top veterans.

You have Lyoto, Wanderlei, Shogun, Nogueira, etc . coming in and winning or putting on great fights. And then you have the the Tito and Arlovski who are on a losing streak or are putting on boring fights… but yet they demand “winner’s” money. Something’s gotta give right?

Who would you rather lose: Machida, Shogun, Wanderlei, Nogueira, Lesnar OR Sylvia, Arlovski, Tito? There’s only a finite amount of money to be spread around.

When you put up with the demands that losing fighters ask for, then you must pay the winners more. As fighter’s salaries rised, so has the price for the PPV. Every one would like fighters to get paid big bucks, but are you ready to pay $5 to $10 more for PPV? When fighter’s pay rises, either buy rates have to rise as well, or PPV prices must rise. Since 2007 PPV buy rates stayed the same, guess what? 2008 PPV prices have risen.

Sure, the UFC is taking in 40 mill profits, but they’re paying $28 mil in interests on their loans. Lets not forget the staff salaries as well as marketing and expansion costs. When sports leagues make $4 billion in revenues, a $100 mil staff, marketing expense budget is only 2.5% of revenues. When the UFC makes 200 mil in revenues, a staff budget of 50 mil is 25% of revenues. Why do I have a feeling that the UFC isn’t making as much money as we all believe?

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]]> By: Jo http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-16065 Jo Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:32:15 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/#comment-16065 I think it would be a bad move on Dana & UFC to let Tito go else where. I think Dana needs to leave his ego aside and make a business decision with out emotions. Obviously there is some bad blood between him and Tito but Dana has made a lot of money of Tito's fights, probably more than Tito made fighting for Dana. I think it pisses Dana off that Tito is getting more and more star power. It is going to be interesting to see how it plays out. I think it would be a bad move on Dana & UFC to let Tito go else where. I think Dana needs to leave his ego aside and make a business decision with out emotions. Obviously there is some bad blood between him and Tito but Dana has made a lot of money of Tito’s fights, probably more than Tito made fighting for Dana. I think it pisses Dana off that Tito is getting more and more star power. It is going to be interesting to see how it plays out.

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]]> By: Gabber http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-16064 Gabber Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:30:49 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/#comment-16064 As of now, according to MMAjunkie, Randy is now under contract with HDNet Fights. As for Tito, I think his loss would be a huge blow to the PR machine of the UFC especially with him coming off (and most likely winning Celebrity Apprentice). Tito has huge star power, he made the UFC through the dark years, the only guys you can count on winning during that time was Hughes and Tito. He gets the Jenna Jamesion Fans, he gets old UFC fans, he gets the new UFC fans, he gets fans of TUF coaching against Shamrock, he gets the fans that hate him that want to see him lose....now he gets very casual Apprentice fans, he gets troop support from all his time spent overseas. The guy truly is the epitome of market saturation and it works. The guy is just a machine and no matter what the outcome, win or lose vs Machida, Tito is still going to be talked about more than his opponent. Tito still holds the record for most PPV's for the #1 & #2 spot for the UFC. Tito has done his homework, his legwork and his PR work, now he truly has become bigger than the UFC. That doesn't mean he's going to start his own fight organization or any of that BS. But I agree with Sam, anyone you put Tito up against Fedor, Randy, Shamrock, Angle, Arlovski or Slice, he is going to give the competition some clout. It might only be for that one show but if that shows goes as well EliteXC did last weekend, they're going to garner some fans. Kimbo really brought me into the EliteXC show and I can deal with some problems (the Vanilla Ice Rapper and the 5 minutes to wait for the replay of KO) but Tito can do that with a whole lot of people who only know Tito and don't know the UFC nearly as well. I think it's in the UFC's best interest to re-sign Tito, who cares if he tanks and goes 2-2 on a four fight deal. I bet they're selling more PPV's and putting more butts in seats with him fighting in their cage, in their house. As of now, according to MMAjunkie, Randy is now under contract with HDNet Fights.

As for Tito, I think his loss would be a huge blow to the PR machine of the UFC especially with him coming off (and most likely winning Celebrity Apprentice). Tito has huge star power, he made the UFC through the dark years, the only guys you can count on winning during that time was Hughes and Tito. He gets the Jenna Jamesion Fans, he gets old UFC fans, he gets the new UFC fans, he gets fans of TUF coaching against Shamrock, he gets the fans that hate him that want to see him lose….now he gets very casual Apprentice fans, he gets troop support from all his time spent overseas. The guy truly is the epitome of market saturation and it works. The guy is just a machine and no matter what the outcome, win or lose vs Machida, Tito is still going to be talked about more than his opponent. Tito still holds the record for most PPV’s for the #1 & #2 spot for the UFC. Tito has done his homework, his legwork and his PR work, now he truly has become bigger than the UFC. That doesn’t mean he’s going to start his own fight organization or any of that BS. But I agree with Sam, anyone you put Tito up against Fedor, Randy, Shamrock, Angle, Arlovski or Slice, he is going to give the competition some clout. It might only be for that one show but if that shows goes as well EliteXC did last weekend, they’re going to garner some fans. Kimbo really brought me into the EliteXC show and I can deal with some problems (the Vanilla Ice Rapper and the 5 minutes to wait for the replay of KO) but Tito can do that with a whole lot of people who only know Tito and don’t know the UFC nearly as well.

I think it’s in the UFC’s best interest to re-sign Tito, who cares if he tanks and goes 2-2 on a four fight deal. I bet they’re selling more PPV’s and putting more butts in seats with him fighting in their cage, in their house.

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]]> By: Jeremy http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-16063 Jeremy Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:29:44 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/20/mass-fighter-exodus-from-the-ufc/#comment-16063 I still don't understand the "mass exodus" title to his article. Three fighters is hardly a mass exodus, unless he is referring to other fighters not mentioned as leaving as well. But they keep resigning guys and signing new ones left and right, so I don't see that as of now from what I have read on other sites and articles. Like you mentioned Sam the only one that really hurts the UFC is Tito Ortiz. Tim Sylvia is not a fan favorite and Arlovski has fought in forever now and hasn't shown anything when he has lately, so like mentioned those are hardly loses that dramatically hurt them at this point. And really we don't know if Sylvia is even going to leave since he retracted his statement about leaving the next day. The one thing I have wondered, and maybe someone here at fiveouncesofpain.com can help me with is what type of pay organizations in the states other then UFC pay, especially their big time fighters? Can M-1, Hdnet, and EliteXC consistently pay Ortiz, Arlovski or Sylvia what the UFC does. Obviously they probably can in a one-off fight if it's against the likes of Fedor but how about over a long term deal. We have to figure Oritz(with ppv money that he gets) makes over a million per fight or at least really close to it. I would think Hdnet, with Cubans' money could pay him that per fight but what about EliteXC and M-1? I don't know if he would want to sign with a Japanese organization that could pay him that kind of money and not be in the American spotlight. What I am trying to figure out is if the opportunities for these guys is really there on a consistent basis. And/or is it worth it for some of these organizations that can pay them to do it? Meaning is it worth M-1 or EliteXC to sign a Tim Sylvia to a couple hundred grand a fight? I still don’t understand the “mass exodus” title to his article. Three fighters is hardly a mass exodus, unless he is referring to other fighters not mentioned as leaving as well. But they keep resigning guys and signing new ones left and right, so I don’t see that as of now from what I have read on other sites and articles.

Like you mentioned Sam the only one that really hurts the UFC is Tito Ortiz. Tim Sylvia is not a fan favorite and Arlovski has fought in forever now and hasn’t shown anything when he has lately, so like mentioned those are hardly loses that dramatically hurt them at this point. And really we don’t know if Sylvia is even going to leave since he retracted his statement about leaving the next day.

The one thing I have wondered, and maybe someone here at fiveouncesofpain.com can help me with is what type of pay organizations in the states other then UFC pay, especially their big time fighters? Can M-1, Hdnet, and EliteXC consistently pay Ortiz, Arlovski or Sylvia what the UFC does. Obviously they probably can in a one-off fight if it’s against the likes of Fedor but how about over a long term deal. We have to figure Oritz(with ppv money that he gets) makes over a million per fight or at least really close to it. I would think Hdnet, with Cubans’ money could pay him that per fight but what about EliteXC and M-1? I don’t know if he would want to sign with a Japanese organization that could pay him that kind of money and not be in the American spotlight.

What I am trying to figure out is if the opportunities for these guys is really there on a consistent basis. And/or is it worth it for some of these organizations that can pay them to do it? Meaning is it worth M-1 or EliteXC to sign a Tim Sylvia to a couple hundred grand a fight?

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