Report: Brandon Vera vs. Fabricio Werdum at UFC 85
According the The Fight Network, contracts have been offered to both fighters for the fight:
Heavyweight contenders Brandon Vera and Fabricio Werdum are slated to square off at UFC 85 on Saturday, June 7 at the O2 Arena in London, The Fight Network has learned. No agreements have been signed, but the bout has been presented to both men, according to a source within one of their camps.
So much for Werdum getting that title shot that Dana White was talking about. I really like this matchmaking though, as both guys are good muay thai and BJJ practitioners so it should be fairly interesting. For Vera it’s a chance to redeem himself after his poor showing against Tim Sylvia at UFC 77.
The real question is who fights Nogueira for the interim title now? Is the UFC really still holding out hope that Randy Couture is going to come back and fight Nogueira? Let’s hope not. You have to think that if Cheick Kongo wins against Heath Herring at UFC 82 then he may very well be the next person in line for the title. Boy, does the UFC need heavyweight talent or what? Yikes. Kongo vs. Nogeuira for the title is not a very appetizing thought.
Adam Morgan is
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Angry Mike
Bad Monkey
Dufresne
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joshuawood
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Rich S.
windstorm
“Boy, does the UFC need heavyweight talent or what?”
Sadly, this can be said about every organization. The number of legit heavies in the world is just so low. The division on a whole just seems so anemic. Hopefully they can come to terms with AA. There’s still quite a few people I’d like to see him matched up against in the UFC. I’m also anxious to see Shane Carwin in action. Anyone know when he’s suppose to make his debut??
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UFC HW division is a joke. They have maybe 2-3 of the top 10 HWs (Nog, Timmeh….maybe Mir).
They’re probably going to have to recycle Gonzaga/Eddie Sanchez as ‘contenders’ again pretty soon.
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the UFC is becoming a joke to me..it’s Dana at his best to put his crowd favorite Vera up in that #1 contender spot, it should be Mir/Werdum if anything…If Vera wins I bet you anything it’ll be Vera/Nogueria for the HW title..The UFC wants a reconizable face that can speak english and market as there Champion..mark my words…
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Good good fight. Thank god Werdum doesnt get a title shot after beating Gonzaga.
Vera wins this by decision after beating on Werdum pretty bad.
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“it should be Mir/Werdum if anything”
Maybe you were sleeping when Vera destroyed Mir??
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paddiosf: “The UFC wants a reconizable face that can speak english and market as there Champion..mark my words…”
certainly noguiera can fill this role? his english is decent and he has an entire library of exciting clips that they can use to promote him
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‘Mericans want champions who are ‘Merican…don’t make me tell you again
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Mir, Werdum, Gonzaga, Herring, Arlovski, Nogueira, Vera, Sylvia, Lesnar, Carwin…
Yeah, UFC HW sucks… EliteXC has sooooooooo much more legit heavies such as Kimbo Slice *snicker*
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dont even mention lesnar man…
if strikeforce and elite have merged than that means elite also has paul b, a overeem, bigfoot silva, etc. they need to get aleks.
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Don’t forget Congo as well.
Lesnar is a legit threat so don’t try to downplay him. Paul B has a chin of glass who just recently got demolished by Overeem, who incidentally, couldn’t hang with the undersized LIGHT heavies of Pride. Overeem will roll of and die at the first sign of trouble. He’s proven that time and time again. Those two are never going to be contenders, ever. Silva has got potential though. Aleks is a question mark because he has never beaten top fighters even with his size and pedigree.
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didn’t Werdum already get promised the title shot??
what the hell…
idk..
Werdum just joined Chute… but Vera’s still got better clinch work.. and shouldn’t have a problem on the ground.. and we saw how badly the leg kicks affected Werdum.. so he should utilize those..
idk.. i hope Vera gets the title.. and then redeems his loss to Tim.. and then moves down.. and then Nog get’s it again..
i would like that..
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Kongo vs. anyone at all is not an appetizing thought. Do we need to see him obliterate another fighter’s nutsack to eke out a win?
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Also, I’ll take Werdum by submission. I don’t think we’ve ever seen Vera’s takedown defense tested in the UFC, but going by the Assuerio Silva fight it’s probably not all that great. Should be a good fight.
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“going by the Assuerio Silva fight it’s probably not all that great”
what do you mean?
When Assuerio tried to take Vera down he got sub’d literally the second it hit the ground.. LITERALLY..
and if Werdum wins it won’t be via sub..
Vera will work the leg kicks.. as did Gabe.. although.. Vera won’t tire like Gabe did..
Vera chops down Werdum through the leg kicks…
hurst him in the clinch..
and either KO’s or Sub’s him…
i give Werdum a lot of credit… don’t think i’m counting him out by any means.. i just don’t see him sub’ing Vera…
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#3, the UFC is a joke to you because the lack of HW talent? is that a serious statement…hw’s worldwide are very weak, and if the UFC is a joke, than what organizations are for real? Mir beats a guy who has 2 career fights and all of a sudden he is title worthy? get a clue
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“When Assuerio tried to take Vera down he got sub’d literally the second it hit the ground.. LITERALLY..”
We all know what happened in that fight. That’s why I said we still have never seen Vera’s takedown defense in the UFC. However, with the understanding that Silva didn’t do a good job of protecting his head, it still looked to me that Vera’s takedown defense was not especially great.
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I like Vera, but I don’t care how much of a ground game he has, he won’t take Werdum in a grappling or wrestling match. Werdum is in another league when it comes to Jiu Jitsu. He proved it against Gonzaga. Standup on the other hand is a little more even and unpredicatable.
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Rich, you need to read post 17. You seem to have very little understanding of where heavyweights rank when it comes to their grappling skills. Vera is supposed to be very good on the ground, Werdum is GREAT on the ground.
I have already responded to your ignorance in regards to this topic and I see that you have either not read it or not taken my advice. So here it is again, type “ADCC” into a search engine and get an education. You are making yourself look like and idiot with comments like “and if Werdum wins it won’t be via sub..”. Werdum could tap just about anybody in the world.
Also I have to agree with GKH that any match with Kongo just doesn’t seem appealing right now (regarding the Heavyweight picture).
Cyphron, your UFC nuthugger knows no bounds. The UFC heavyweight division is in shambles and your comparison of it to EliteXCs heavyweight division is nothing more than a diversion from the hard truth. The question right now isn’t how the UFC stacks up to other promotions regarding heavys, its how many top 10 guys do they have in that division. The reason for this is that the UFC refuses to co-promote. Although the Heavyweight talent is very fragmented right now, we know that other promotions who have these guys under contract are much more willing to co-promote. So its not that big of a deal if one promotion doesn’t have all the heavyweight talent under their banner.
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Dice,
According to all the rankings I’ve seen, the UFC has like 6/10 of the top HWs. Their HW division may be in shambles, but that’s because Crocop, Fedor, Couture, and Barnett have all signed to smaller orgs that only have like 1 good HW- them. They won’t stay top ranked for long unless they can beat some top talent… Fedor is already sliding in most rankings.
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Oops, correction, Couture hasn’t signed yet but that’s because technically he is still contracted to the UFC.
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alright dice,
i wasn’t saying Werdum has a bad ground game.. i just think that Vera’s sub defense would be up to par.. i was trying to state an opinion.. not down a fighter..
i’m not unaware of the grappling skills among HW’s or any other weight class for that matter.. i’m well-educated on everyone’s strengths and weaknesses.. very simply put.. if i don’t about a fighter.. i don’t comment on them..
so, please, don’t call me ignorant..
and…
“I have already responded to your ignorance in regards to this topic and I see that you have either not read it or not taken my advice”
when was that??
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Hexrei, saying a fighter is in the top ten is a value term. Your top ten might be different than mine. But as of right now the UFC doesn’t have Fedor, Barnett, Couture, Rothwell, Alexs, Kharatonov, and Hunt (who is probably a little outside the top ten as is A. Silva imo).
They will be losing Arlovski soon and big Tim doesn’t seem happy (very good chance that Monte takes him to M-1).
I guess we can pretend that the UFC has a stacked heavyweight division, but I see no reason to live in that fantasyland. The only guys who I think are legit Top ten in the UFC right now are Tim, werdum and Nog (with vera and gonzaga on the fringe and since AA is leaving I am not figuring him into that equation). Nobody but the real hardcore 13 year TUF fan thinks that the UFC’s heavyweight division is stacked.
RICH
Here is when I responded to your last comment.
http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/02/19/paul-buentello-calls-out-kimbo-slice/#comments
Normally I wouldn’t be so hard on ya bud but you completely misread what I wrote earlier and then made some silly comments about how Mir had a much better ground game than pe de pano, werdum and Fedor. Which means that while you think you know what your talking about; you actually don’t. To the point where Grape Knee, someone who usually disagrees with me, asked if you had Down syndrome. (a legit question considering some of the comments you made). This doesn’t have much to do with varying opinions; but the fact that you have no idea about the submission backgrounds of a lot of these heavyweights.(yet pretend that you do and act like everyone else is the ignoramus)
Do you know what the ADCC tournament is Rich? Any idea as to who is the world Sambo Champion?
Rich’s past statements
“i’m not unaware of the grappling skills among HW’s or any other weight class for that matter.. i’m well-educated on everyone’s strengths and weaknesses..”
Just a day or two earlier
“De Pano??? one of the best HW sub’ists..
why won’t you people give Mir his credit??
i’ll admit.. Nog’s got great sub’s… but Werdum and De Pano ahead of Mir is just stupid…
and although Fedor has good sub victories.. i wouldn’t call him a sub’ist..”
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ok dice..
i DO know of the Abu Dhabi tournament..
and i DO happen to know that Fedor is destroying the sambo tourny’s..
but when i spoke of De Pano… i was referring to his fights in the UFC, not previous ones [and i will admit.. i haven't seen him fight outside of the UFC]… which contradicts my statement: “if i don’t about a fighter.. i don’t comment on them..” and i do apologize for that… it won’t happen again..
and once more, in reguard to the comments on Werdum earlier in this post, that was my opinion for how the fight would go.. and not an attempt to bash Werdum..
and for the record.. i didn’t actually say Mir’s ground game was better than FEDOR’s…
i just don’t want you to think i’m some jerk like JJGuy who just bashes fighters because he doesn’t like them, and doesn’t give credit where credit belongs..
for some reason.. i see you picturing me like that in your head..
just. . . don’t let this whole thing give you the wrong idea about me. . .
if i was INDEED ignorant.. i would be afraid to post on this website.. believe me..
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Pe Da Pano made his debut in the UFC, he was just a BJJ phenom beforehand and thats why he got a UFC contract.
Pe Da Pano and Werdum have great BJJ skills but I believe Mir and Nog have adapted their jiu jitsu better. Mir explodes onto submissions rather than methodically working to them and Nogueira seems to perform his jiu jitsu better when he’s taking a pounding.
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Dice said:
Hexrei, saying a fighter is in the top ten is a value term. Your top ten might be different than mine. But as of right now the UFC doesn’t have Fedor, Barnett, Couture, Rothwell, Alexs, Kharatonov, and Hunt (who is probably a little outside the top ten as is A. Silva imo).
They will be losing Arlovski soon and big Tim doesn’t seem happy (very good chance that Monte takes him to M-1).
I guess we can pretend that the UFC has a stacked heavyweight division, but I see no reason to live in that fantasyland. The only guys who I think are legit Top ten in the UFC right now are Tim, werdum and Nog (with vera and gonzaga on the fringe and since AA is leaving I am not figuring him into that equation). Nobody but the real hardcore 13 year TUF fan thinks that the UFC’s heavyweight division is stacked.
I’ve not seen any reputable source that considers Kharitonovor Rothwell anywhere in the top ten, and as you said, Hunt and A. Silva don’t really make the grade either.
You are the one that brought up “top ten” as the standard, if you’re now going to say that it’s all relative so consensus doesn’t matter then I’m not even sure why you brought it up.
They do have Sylvia, Big Nog, Werdum, Gonzaga, Kongo, Arlovski, Vera, and recently let go Crocop cuz he couldn’t hang. Herring, Lesnar and Mir are also notable, at least as much so as Aleks Emelianenko who hasn’t fought anyone tough recently (Dan Bobish? hahahaha).
Tim also issued a retraction for his statements immediately and has stated since that he won’t be going anywhere anytime soon. Arlovski has never said he will be leaving for certain and is still under contract.
Last, no one said it was “Stacked”. But it certainly is not in a shambles, the UFC’s HW division is still deeper than all of its competitors combined right now. You speak as if they have to have every single top HW in the world in order to be taken seriously.
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Name one HW division that is better than the UFC’s. Can’t name them? Well, Dice need to STFU.
And why should the UFC co-promote? Lend their popularity to EliteXC and M-1? They spend 30-40 mil on marketing so that lesser shows can benefit on their brand name? I see that anti-UFC trolls have infiltrated this site as well.
If you’re a MMA fan, you watch and enjoy UFC, EliteXC, Strikeforce, etc. regardless of their talent level. Why waste your time hating on the UFC?
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To Sam cupitt
I disagree with your statement that Mirs ground game has translated better than Pe De Pano or Werdums. Werdum just hasn’t had to rely on his ground game that much and has fought much better competition. Cruz, well he just hasn’t fought enough and showed that he doesn’t need to use his grappling if he can just pound you in the face (eg smashing Mir’s face to bits). I think you are forgetting that Mir just hasn’t fought that many top guys, like I said before submission victories over abbott, williams, lesnar and hardonk doesn’t mean your world class. Do you think for a second that Pe De Pano or Werdum couldn’t tap any of those guys? Mirs very one demensional, which I think gives off the illusion that he has a top 5 ground game (heavyweights).
Rich
“for some reason.. i see you picturing me like that in your head..
just. . . don’t let this whole thing give you the wrong idea about me. . .”
Rich, you completely misread what I wrote previously about slice and lesnar and I gave you chance to reread it. Instead you kept claiming that you caught me in a contradiction, instead of actually reading what I wrote. Thats why I am giving you a hard time, that and you did seem to be in dark when it came to the grappling pasts of some heavyweights. As for your comment about not saying that Mir had a better ground game than Fedor, well I think you are forgetting that you called Mir the best submission heavyweight. “Best” means there is no one equal or above, so I was assuming Fedor counted as being below Mir.
Hexrei-
“I’ve not seen any reputable source that considers Kharitonovor Rothwell anywhere in the top ten”
Hexrei buddy, this site, the site that you find reputable enough to spend time posting on, has Rothwell in the top ten. So if all your looking for is “reputable” sites and their rankings, well welcome to fiveouncesofpain, glad you could join us.
As for Kharitonov, well he is in my top ten and for good reason. He holds a win over Werdum and avenged his loss to overeem in dominating fashion. I don’t really care if you can’t find his name on some reputable site as being in the top ten. The guy is top notch and I would equate him to AA (it would be a pick em if they fought).
Cyphron
“Name one HW division that is better than the UFC’s. Can’t name them? Well, Dice need to STFU.”
Already responded to that comment, so I feel no need to repeat myself. See comment 18 and read it carefully, I explain quite carefully why it doesn’t matter if another org. has all the top heavyweight fighters under their banner. Its not my fault if you can’t comprehend this very basic argument.
Cyphron
“And why should the UFC co-promote? Lend their popularity to EliteXC and M-1? They spend 30-40 mil on marketing so that lesser shows can benefit on their brand name? I see that anti-UFC trolls have infiltrated this site as well.
If you’re a MMA fan, you watch and enjoy UFC, EliteXC, Strikeforce, etc. regardless of their talent level. Why waste your time hating on the UFC?”
Uh, are you even reading my posts, or are you just assuming things and then posting the standard Pro UFC rhetoric? I make no argument that the UFC should co-promote. I simply said that they don’t co-promote, the rest is just your invention.
As for the hating UFC, well that how I know I am not dealing with a rational human being. Just because I criticize their heavyweight division, I am a UFC hater troll? Not sure how that works. You seem to be dogmatically tied to defending the UFC and their ways. I have seen your kind a thousand times, when you have a bad case you resort to calling people trolls in an effort to discredit them. So then the topic changes from the real issue (the state of the UFCs heavyweight division) to whether or not I am a troll. Its pathetic.
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When you called me a UFC nuthugger, I just assume you’re a troll. Next time, perhaps hold off on the rhetoric?
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Hexrei-
“I’ve not seen any reputable source that considers Kharitonovor Rothwell anywhere in the top ten”
Hexrei buddy, this site, the site that you find reputable enough to spend time posting on, has Rothwell in the top ten. So if all your looking for is “reputable” sites and their rankings, well welcome to fiveouncesofpain, glad you could join us.
As for Kharitonov, well he is in my top ten and for good reason. He holds a win over Werdum and avenged his loss to overeem in dominating fashion. I don’t really care if you can’t find his name on some reputable site as being in the top ten. The guy is top notch and I would equate him to AA (it would be a pick em if they fought).
Sweet, you found a site that ranks Rothwell in the top ten (I’ll admit I didn’t check this site’s rankings, I have a good half dozen other sites I do use though). And you love Kharitonov’s balls. Great!
top ten rankings nder contract? I mean, if the UFC’s is “in a shambles” then where does that leave the IFL, EliteXC, M-1, and Dream who have about 1 top ten HW apiece?
Now that we’re done with the semantics can you explain to me how the UFC’s HW division is in “a shambles” when they have 7 of the 10 fighters on this site’s (the one you love so much!
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last was @ dice
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well.. maybe Mir hasn’t fought the most impressive opponents.. but he has had the most impressive sub’s.. to me..
i mean yeah.. anyone can sub Tank.. but that … was beautiful..
and the Pete Williams fight… amazing.. and i’ve yet to see someone else perform that sub since..
Mir hasn’t fought the most sub savy fighters in the league.. but.. his sub’s are brilliant..
and i do hope that he gets some fights w/ sub’ists in the future.. to TRULY show his skills.. seeing as how he “apparently” hasn’t shown them so far..
although he’s proved them to me..
man, there’s alot of Mir-Haters out there..
maybe it will take him beating Gabe, Werdum, or Nog or something..
one day.. he’ll get his respect..
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Whoa hexrei, sorry I embarrassed you bud. But the irony was just too much, you sitting there talking about how no reputable site has Rothwell in the top ten while posting on a site that did. LOL You can get mad all you want, piss and moan and say I love Kharitonov’s balls (huh? because I said he is in my top ten, easy there boy), but that doesn’t change the fact that you are embarrassed.
hexrei
“Now that we’re done with the semantics can you explain to me how the UFC’s HW division is in “a shambles” when they have 7 of the 10 fighters on this site’s (the one you love so much!
top ten rankings nder contract?”
Not sure why you think I love this site’s top ten rankings. I was actually trying to show how dumb it is to just go solely by “reputable” mma sites instead of thinking for yourself (thats why I said “So if all your looking for is “reputable” sites and their rankings…”). My top ten is obviously different than every “reputable” sites rankings and I have named the top fighters the UFC is missing many times on this article. Also, just to show what a complete moron you are, you counted wrong on how many UFC fighters were on this sites top ten list. I counted 6 UFC fighters including AA, who is leaving in a couple months. (I know you wouldn’t be counting Randy as a UFC fighter since he refuses to fight for them and resigned months ago, you can’t really call someone a UFC fighter if they won’t fight for the promotion so don’t bother with the “UFC still has him under contract argument”)
As far as your comment about comparing the UFC to other orgs heavyweight divisions, well for the 10th time read post 18 again. I am tired of explaining why it makes no sense to compare the UFC to promotions who are open to co promotion. You just recycled cyphrons terrible argument.
Cyphron, the word “nuthugger” isn’t rhetoric if it accurately describes you. I have never seen you say anything critical of the UFC and most of your posts are spent defending the UFC even when there is a mountain of evidence against you(case in point right here). Don’t bother saying I am an Anti UFC troll because in post 22 I provide a link where I am criticizing elitexc and praising the UFC.
Hexrei, yeah whatever. I don’t really think of myself as a “mir hater”, but I definitely don’t think the guy will be winning his heavyweight title back anytime soon. And I don’t want to be a dream crusher but… well there is about a 1 in 100 chance that he will ever beat Nog, Werdum or Gabe. Those guys are just out of his league right now. In fact I think he would probably get smashed by Tim if they were ever to rematch. Mir doesn’t take his training seriously. Until he decides he wants to put everything into becoming an elite heavyweight he will continue to get destroyed by upper to upper-mid level fighters like Vera and Cruz. Yeah his subs are brilliant because he fights guys who think a rear naked choke is some kind of kama sutra move.
Your comment about his move against Pete Williams cracked me the hell up. You want to know why you have never seen anyone get tapped by a shoulder lock? Its because it is such a basic move that no one else is bad enough to get caught in it.
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Last two paragraphs were to rich, not hexrei
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dice
Randy is still under contract with the UFC, which is what I said 
Guess you didn’t realize that?
Don’t worry man, I’m not embarassed
Anyway, if you can’t have a discussion without namecalling, I’m just not going to bother to talk to you. Grow up, armchair warrior.
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P.S. No one is bad enough to get caught in a shoulder lock huh? I train in Portland OR at SBGI. Come by sometime and you can show me just how you personally avoid that submission.
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here we go, dice..
“because it is such a basic move that no one else is bad enough to get caught in it.”
oh.. so Pete Williams is a bad fighter now.. ok..
someone who’s known for their sub’s.. gets caught in that shoulder lock.. and you still won’t give Mir his credit.. and you don’t think of yourself as a Mir hater??
“In fact I think he would probably get smashed by Tim if they were ever to rematch”
that’s weird.. because he beat Tim the first time.. and Tim’s only gotten worse since then.. [although he does win fights.. so don't come after me for that]
“Mir doesn’t take his training seriously”
so, you personally stopped by his gym. . . and know this for a fact??
if that’s not the case.. there’s no way you could know about that… from what i’ve seen.. he looks pretty determined..
“he will continue to get destroyed by upper to upper-mid level fighters like Vera and Cruz”
ok.. you’re starting to make me angry with all this talk about De Pano..
that was Mir’s first fight back.. anyone who says that’s no excuse is stupid.. plus, he’s recently told us that for a while.. he stopped liking MMA.. he lost his passion for the sport.. he’s obviously gotten it back..
i’ll admit.. he got caught by Vera.. but.. there’s no one right now that can take the relentless Muay Thai assault he has to offer.. except for Tim..and i’m not sure how that worked.. i still think the only reason Tim didn’t get KO’d was because of Vera’s 1st round hand break..
and i love how you hint at him being “destroyed” by De pano..
De Pano only hit him in the face around 3 or 4 times.. that cut is the ONLY reason he won the fight as far as i’m concerned..
oh.. and wait.. what has De Pano done since then??
well.. he went on to lose a lowsy decision to Jeff Monson.. during which he got knocked silly a few times..
and then went straight to getting KTFO’d in the fight w/ AA, in which he got the chance to show us how sloppy and unenthused his takedowns were..
but.. he DID beat Rafael Feijao… simply by getting kicked illegally.. repeatedly..
“well there is about a 1 in 100 chance that he will ever beat Nog, Werdum or Gabe”
you continue to talk like the Mir that lost to Pe De Pano [THE AMAZING BRIZILIAN SENSATION], performed horribly against dan christison, and got KO’d by Brandon Vera… is still around.. there’s a new Mir now.. and you should’ve accepted that by now..
his last two fights.. were won via sub.. within in 1 min. and a half.. each time.. that’s hardly enough time to get to the ground for some fighters.. let alone.. sub someone..
and don’t give me crap about how Hardonk and Lesnar don’t know sub’s…
Hardonk actually went for, i believe, an omoplata on Mir
and Lesnar is a powerful animal..
there’s been plenty of times where strikers withstood sub’s and won.. or sub’ist withstood striking and got a KO..
so this stuff about his opponents not knowing sub defense is getting old..
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and thanks for defending my shoulder lock comment HexRei…
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