Comments on: Open Discussion: Should Vets Get More Respect from Referees? http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/ Your Destination for Insider MMA News and Opinion Mon, 13 Feb 2012 03:49:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Fight Fan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-22328 Fight Fan Tue, 08 Apr 2008 11:57:50 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-22328 Well Steve Mazzagatti is very naughty then. Well Steve Mazzagatti is very naughty then.

]]> By: Ross http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-22183 Ross Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:31:09 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-22183 Steve Mazzagatti (sp) says that different level fighters get treated differently. Its easy to understand- an A level fighter can withstand more punishment ( or atleast is more used to the damage) where as a B level fighter may need more referee intervention. None the less, the Karo stoppage, imo was legit. Steve Mazzagatti (sp) says that different level fighters get treated differently. Its easy to understand- an A level fighter can withstand more punishment ( or atleast is more used to the damage) where as a B level fighter may need more referee intervention. None the less, the Karo stoppage, imo was legit.

]]> By: Fight Fan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-22071 Fight Fan Sat, 05 Apr 2008 05:30:53 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-22071 #48 I think what big John meant by that was that he wanted to give Chuck the benifit of the doubt but couldn't, not that he has an "understanding" with any one fighter. There is no "understanding". If refs are bias or have an "understanding" they could be changing the outcome of a fight in favour of one fighter. I think that should be left to the fighters as much as possible. People are talking about big Nog vs Heath. In that fight Nog was defending himself the whole time he was rocked and stunned not knocked out and limp like Karo. Maybe they should bring in 10 counts to keep people happy. But then people will say vets should get 20 counts. Just stupid. #48 I think what big John meant by that was that he wanted to give Chuck the benifit of the doubt but couldn’t, not that he has an “understanding” with any one fighter.
There is no “understanding”. If refs are bias or have an “understanding” they could be changing the outcome of a fight in favour of one fighter.
I think that should be left to the fighters as much as possible.
People are talking about big Nog vs Heath. In that fight Nog was defending himself the whole time he was rocked and stunned not knocked out and limp like Karo.
Maybe they should bring in 10 counts to keep people happy.
But then people will say vets should get 20 counts.
Just stupid.

]]> By: Hogan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-22061 Hogan Sat, 05 Apr 2008 03:26:58 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-22061 The stoppages were solid and I have no complaints. But please explain why when Lesnar struck Mir in the back of the head the fight was stopped, a point deducted and recovery time granted. In the JLo Ken Flo fight Florian was clearly striking in the back of the head opening a nasty cut. Florian was warned and the fight continued on the feet with no recovery time granted. J LO wasn’t the same and that incident could have changed the course of the fight. Why are these situations left to discretion and not governed by a set rule or protical? The stoppages were solid and I have no complaints. But please explain why when Lesnar struck Mir in the back of the head the fight was stopped, a point deducted and recovery time granted. In the JLo Ken Flo fight Florian was clearly striking in the back of the head opening a nasty cut. Florian was warned and the fight continued on the feet with no recovery time granted. J LO wasn’t the same and that incident could have changed the course of the fight. Why are these situations left to discretion and not governed by a set rule or protical?

]]> By: Tim Crawford http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-22035 Tim Crawford Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:26:02 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-22035 And by the way, 'WHY HATE KARO'? Besides for having way to much chest hair? Anyone else wishing Nate Diaz goes up to 170 just to choke him out and then back to 155. Karo was an idiot on TUF and how bout manvel showing how classy the whole family tree is in his prelim fight. Treat em all the same. Let them live to fight and speak clearly another day. And by the way, ‘WHY HATE KARO’?
Besides for having way to much chest hair?
Anyone else wishing Nate Diaz goes up to 170 just to choke him out and then back to 155.
Karo was an idiot on TUF and how bout manvel showing how classy the whole family tree is in his prelim fight.

Treat em all the same.
Let them live to fight and speak clearly another day.

]]> By: Tim Crawford http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-22020 Tim Crawford Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:47:33 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-22020 Treat even the same. Some vets are already punch drunk and should technically be stopped sooner then the new fishes. Karo got rocked, Alexander got rocked and if they fought better they would have won and I would have won my straight bets on those guys. Love the website guys. Treat even the same.
Some vets are already punch drunk and should technically be stopped sooner then the new fishes.
Karo got rocked, Alexander got rocked and if they fought better they would have won and I would have won my straight bets on those guys.

Love the website guys.

]]> By: BJJDenver http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-22019 BJJDenver Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:42:24 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-22019 Rather see Karo and Diego go again^^^^. Rather see Karo and Diego go again^^^^.

]]> By: Atom http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-22017 Atom Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:34:06 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-22017 Everyone likes a rematch/revenge fight. (thers always that option people) SO... I say, gaurantee the fighters live to fight another day. Who wants to see Karo vs Alves 2???? Everyone likes a rematch/revenge fight. (thers always that option people)
SO…
I say, gaurantee the fighters live to fight another day.

Who wants to see Karo vs Alves 2????

]]> By: ctownhood http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-22003 ctownhood Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:30:14 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-22003 For the record....Karo was never offered a fight with Fitch. Both fighters have said so. Someone did ask Karo if he WANTED to fight Fitch, and he said he would prefer another fight...that's all. For the record….Karo was never offered a fight with Fitch. Both fighters have said so. Someone did ask Karo if he WANTED to fight Fitch, and he said he would prefer another fight…that’s all.

]]> By: Derek B. http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-21998 Derek B. Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:43:32 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-21998 "So you didn’t see the .gif of him yelling “TAP” toward the referee from the other camera angle?" Huckaby you are wrong he didn't yell "Tap" he yelled "NO TAP!" Watch it closely. “So you didn’t see the .gif of him yelling “TAP” toward the referee from the other camera angle?”

Huckaby you are wrong he didn’t yell “Tap” he yelled “NO TAP!” Watch it closely.

]]> By: BJJDenver http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-21993 BJJDenver Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:55:20 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-21993 “ Open Discussion: Should Vets Get More Respect from Referees? ” NO. “ Open Discussion: Should Vets Get More Respect from Referees? ”

NO.

]]> By: ossBASHA http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-21977 ossBASHA Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:14:06 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-21977 All stoppages were fair IMHO. Karo has to much of an ego to admit defeat, and Houston is in denial. Joe admitted that he "could see why the fight was stopped". Nothing controversial about this UFN13, excellent reffing. All stoppages were fair IMHO. Karo has to much of an ego to admit defeat, and Houston is in denial. Joe admitted that he “could see why the fight was stopped”. Nothing controversial about this UFN13, excellent reffing.

]]> By: Jackyl http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-21974 Jackyl Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:40:29 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-21974 No fighter should get special treatment. But the refs should give vets the benefit of the doubt. For a while Herb Dean was the king of quick stoppages. I know I'm gonna get some heat for this but..... Ortiz/Shamrock 2 was stoppped waaaaaay too fast. Especially after the buildup to that fight. So Shamrock had taken a couple elbows to the face, he had guard and he was fine. The other night was a perfect example of a ref doing a good job when Dean let the Florian fight go until it was 100% clear that Lauzon wasn't getting out.Another fight that was close to being stopped was Ortiz/Forrest. Forrest weathered the storm and actually made a close fight of it. Alexander did the Chuck Liddell I'm out for a half second dance. The refs are trained to react instantly so I can see that one. Karo is not overated. His Judo skills give him an edge over most fighters. He was covering up and probably could have pulled guard. There's all kinds of fights where fighters just get dropped and it doesn't get stopped right away. By the rationale of the other night, they should have stopped Mir and Lesnar instead of taking a point. Mir was out. At the end of the day we have to go by the ref's judgement but they need to look at the totality of the situation. No fighter should get special treatment. But the refs should give vets the benefit of the doubt. For a while Herb Dean was the king of quick stoppages. I know I’m gonna get some heat for this but….. Ortiz/Shamrock 2 was stoppped waaaaaay too fast. Especially after the buildup to that fight. So Shamrock had taken a couple elbows to the face, he had guard and he was fine. The other night was a perfect example of a ref doing a good job when Dean let the Florian fight go until it was 100% clear that Lauzon wasn’t getting out.Another fight that was close to being stopped was Ortiz/Forrest. Forrest weathered the storm and actually made a close fight of it. Alexander did the Chuck Liddell I’m out for a half second dance. The refs are trained to react instantly so I can see that one. Karo is not overated. His Judo skills give him an edge over most fighters. He was covering up and probably could have pulled guard. There’s all kinds of fights where fighters just get dropped and it doesn’t get stopped right away. By the rationale of the other night, they should have stopped Mir and Lesnar instead of taking a point. Mir was out. At the end of the day we have to go by the ref’s judgement but they need to look at the totality of the situation.

]]> By: truth http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-21973 truth Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:34:43 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-21973 Yeah, Big John R.I.P. (ref in peace) has said he takes the fighters experience/ability into account when deciding a stoppage, I don't recall him ever really making a bad call where everyone was screaming at the tube either. Yeah, Big John R.I.P. (ref in peace) has said he takes the fighters experience/ability into account when deciding a stoppage, I don’t recall him ever really making a bad call where everyone was screaming at the tube either.

]]> By: Derek B. http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-21972 Derek B. Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:28:05 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-21972 Vet or not...if you look like your out of it then the fights over. We can't be letting people get seriously hurt inside of the cage/ring because they have more experience. That is being biased by itself. Vet or not…if you look like your out of it then the fights over. We can’t be letting people get seriously hurt inside of the cage/ring because they have more experience. That is being biased by itself.

]]> By: Recently.Reaped http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-21969 Recently.Reaped Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:38:46 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-21969 I think vets should be given more of a chance. They have the experience to cover up or recover better due to having been in the situation more than once. For the fights on Spike, Houston had his arms to the side and was putting up zero defence, Karo had his arms up near his head and was recovering his wits, Thiago didn't have a free shot at Karo, he was slipping in some good shots. So many times we've seen a guy on the brink only to come back and win a fight. It's a tough call by the refs but I think quite often they stop it too soon. If a guy is covering up quite well and doesn't go limp, he can tap if he thinks he's screwed. I think vets should be given more of a chance. They have the experience to cover up or recover better due to having been in the situation more than once.
For the fights on Spike, Houston had his arms to the side and was putting up zero defence, Karo had his arms up near his head and was recovering his wits, Thiago didn’t have a free shot at Karo, he was slipping in some good shots. So many times we’ve seen a guy on the brink only to come back and win a fight.
It’s a tough call by the refs but I think quite often they stop it too soon. If a guy is covering up quite well and doesn’t go limp, he can tap if he thinks he’s screwed.

]]> By: BustYoFace http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-21966 BustYoFace Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:22:06 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-21966 Listen Guys, The best ref in the game was quoted saying a couple of things that might clear this up for you guys. Big John said after the Page/Chuck fight that "you always want to give the champ the benifit of the doubt and the chance to recover and defend himself but it was clear that chuck was not defending himslef". That sounds to me that there is an "understanding" between refs and certain fighters. Listen Guys,
The best ref in the game was quoted saying a couple of things that might clear this up for you guys. Big John said after the Page/Chuck fight that “you always want to give the champ the benifit of the doubt and the chance to recover and defend himself but it was clear that chuck was not defending himslef”. That sounds to me that there is an “understanding” between refs and certain fighters.

]]> By: Gabber http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-21965 Gabber Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:11:10 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-21965 I personally think, since I saw the fight with Marcus Davis vs Paul Taylor (can't remember the one in the UK where he was on the brink) that fights get stopped way too early. There is always a chance the guy will get his bearings bust a nice sub or roll because the mounted fighter is too high and they sneak a full guard. I personally think, since I saw the fight with Marcus Davis vs Paul Taylor (can’t remember the one in the UK where he was on the brink) that fights get stopped way too early. There is always a chance the guy will get his bearings bust a nice sub or roll because the mounted fighter is too high and they sneak a full guard.

]]> By: Fight Fan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-21963 Fight Fan Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:25:33 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-21963 P.S. Shawn thats not logic mate. Its compitition between two people. Ya know sports. Not 9-5 job. Ref is not a boss. He is not meant to show bias. Ya know the whole idea of sports. Saying that the ref should not be unbias is not a "pro MMA argument". You're way off. P.S. Shawn thats not logic mate.
Its compitition between two people.
Ya know sports.
Not 9-5 job.
Ref is not a boss.
He is not meant to show bias.
Ya know the whole idea of sports.
Saying that the ref should not be unbias is not a “pro MMA argument”.
You’re way off.

]]> By: Fight Fan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/comment-page-1/#comment-21959 Fight Fan Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:40:17 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/04/03/open-discussion-should-vets-get-more-respect-from-referees/#comment-21959 If someone (AA for example) has a bad chin and has proven it should the ref stop it early? and how far do they go, perhaps the best fighters just get their hand raised as the walk in the ring and the bad ones just dont turn up. Same rules for everyone.Good, bad, stong, weak, good chin, bad chin. Its that simple. If someone (AA for example) has a bad chin and has proven it should the ref stop it early? and how far do they go, perhaps the best fighters just get their hand raised as the walk in the ring and the bad ones just dont turn up.
Same rules for everyone.Good, bad, stong, weak, good chin, bad chin.
Its that simple.

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