Comments on: Getting dropped by the UFC might not be the end of the world for some fighters http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/ Your Destination for Insider MMA News and Opinion Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:03:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: tyler http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26189 tyler Wed, 07 May 2008 16:26:53 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26189 I understand most of the cuts the ufc has made but O’Brien AA I hate to see either of them go I understand most of the cuts the ufc has made but O’Brien AA I hate to see either of them go

]]> By: Fight Fan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26186 Fight Fan Wed, 07 May 2008 16:04:23 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26186 It is strange that most of the good HW MW LW (LW is debatable) fight elsewhere. If the UFC is doing so well you think it would pay for the best. I realise that the UFC isn't going under anytime soon but why are the MW and HW divisions so low on talent?. Is it just that the fighters would rather fight elsewhere or what? is the UFC just tight with its masses of money?. I think the UFC will regret letting Tim, AA, Tito and Randy go. I'm not trying to say the sky is falling but if another promotion gets those guys, Fedor, Josh, a few others and a few of those MWs like lindland etc then cross promotes with Dream or EXC the UFC will seem a lot less legit as "the MMA promotion". It is strange that most of the good HW MW LW (LW is debatable) fight elsewhere. If the UFC is doing so well you think it would pay for the best.
I realise that the UFC isn’t going under anytime soon but why are the MW and HW divisions so low on talent?. Is it just that the fighters would rather fight elsewhere or what? is the UFC just tight with its masses of money?.

I think the UFC will regret letting Tim, AA, Tito and Randy go. I’m not trying to say the sky is falling but if another promotion gets those guys, Fedor, Josh, a few others and a few of those MWs like lindland etc then cross promotes with Dream or EXC the UFC will seem a lot less legit as “the MMA promotion”.

]]> By: Sam Caplan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26177 Sam Caplan Wed, 07 May 2008 15:00:23 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26177 Guys, I think his post has been beaten to death. Let's stay on topic. Thanks. Guys, I think his post has been beaten to death. Let’s stay on topic. Thanks.

]]> By: GassedOut http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26176 GassedOut Wed, 07 May 2008 14:31:56 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26176 Y'know, I'm not into flaming...but if Donny wants to call the wrath of posters down on himself by repeating uninformed rhetoric with an obvious agenda, who am I to argue? Y’know, I’m not into flaming…but if Donny wants to call the wrath of posters down on himself by repeating uninformed rhetoric with an obvious agenda, who am I to argue?

]]> By: Patrick http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26175 Patrick Wed, 07 May 2008 13:47:20 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26175 So we're pretty much all agreed then that Donny is a moron? So we’re pretty much all agreed then that Donny is a moron?

]]> By: Stuart http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26173 Stuart Wed, 07 May 2008 13:44:40 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26173 Doesn't look like the UFC is in any trouble at all: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0505/080.html Just wish my investments worked as well!! Doesn’t look like the UFC is in any trouble at all:

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0505/080.html

Just wish my investments worked as well!!

]]> By: mike wolfe http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26152 mike wolfe Wed, 07 May 2008 04:45:13 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26152 The only cut I would argue with is O'Brien. "If you can't beat him, kick him out?" Wrestling is a legit part of MMA and if other fighters can't beat him, why shouldn't they be the ones to go? The only cut I would argue with is O’Brien. “If you can’t beat him, kick him out?” Wrestling is a legit part of MMA and if other fighters can’t beat him, why shouldn’t they be the ones to go?

]]> By: mike wolfe http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26151 mike wolfe Wed, 07 May 2008 04:42:59 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26151 Donny Dude, are you pimping for a UFC rival? Perseverating due to a head injury? Why the same anti-UFC posts? What's the agenda? Donny

Dude, are you pimping for a UFC rival? Perseverating due to a head injury? Why the same anti-UFC posts? What’s the agenda?

]]> By: Patrick http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26125 Patrick Tue, 06 May 2008 22:26:44 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26125 "But the reality is, there could be a market for Starnes." Yes, there are professional marathon runners. And yet again, allow me to reply to Donny. "UFC is running 3x the amount of shows this year than it ever has, and all of a sudden they need to cut %30 of their roster???" - MMA is seeing more an more exciting entrants coming up in the sport, gyms are popping up everywhere, new talent with serious skill is on the horizon. They're making space by getting rid of dead or dying weight. read between the lines bros - Read a book. Key Points: - Not really key points at all if they're all wrong eh? The shows overseas losing the UFC tons of money, Ireland show barley did 50k PPV buys and ended up costing the UFC close to $20 Mil according to the Yahoo article by Meltzer - Overseas shows = establishing productions in emerging markets, you spend money to make money. Not everything is instant profit, and if you payed attention to MMA at all you'd know that this is exactly how it came up in the world anyhow, it establishes a niche market in an area and then builds on it. The last show in london almost did 100k buys and cost them money - (see last response, or just take a marketing course.) The TUF show on Spike is the lowest in its history. - Evidence please. Also saying "lowest" in its history doesn't make any sense, are you implying lowest ratings? Is it below sea level? Is it shorter? You're not too bright. The last 3 UFNs were a complete bust ratings wise, barley anyone watched them. - Actually the "extended" UFN did well, and it was a badass card, also it was on every single t.v. in every single bar/sports restaurant in the area I'm living in, including advertisements outside of said places for an UFN party. The $325 Million Debt - Fuck you're dumb. Operating debt, they're leveraging debt just like any other major company would do it. Have you ever even read a balance sheet or income statement before? Do you realize that utilizing debt capacity is a major function of achieving profits? 325 million in debt for a company that has a net income like Zuffa is not that much man, look at MSFT or GOOG and the amount of debt they're utilizing. If you don't know what debt really is past personal debt, don't comment on it because all it does is make you look ignorant of finance. They couldnt secure a Network TV deal or a deal with HBO - Yet they just hooked up with Bud Light. Hmmmm...... The talk of a Sale to the WWE and plenty others- look it up, was reported here and mmaweekly - Talk is talk. I also seriously doubt what you're saying here, full of shit? Yes, you are. The Xcience scandal - which the UFC had over $10 mil invested - The Fertitas et all had money invested, the UFC is a corporation with its own budget, it wasn't a proprietary creditor of Xcience (also, anyone miss those Xenergy drinks? They were actually really tasty, can't find them around here anymore, makes me sad). MASS FIGHTER LAYOFFS - Less than 20 guys is not fucking "mass fighter layoffs caps lock on omg omg omg panic". The Pride $85 Million buy which ended up worth nothing. - It took out the only serious competition in the international game and forced some of the best talent in the industry into the UFC. Dream et al are leveraging huge hits in profit in order to establish themselves again, as well as having to reorganize their entire employment structure. Buying out Pride was smart, lots of companies will buyout their main competition even if its faltering because they know they'll capture more market share in the process. Huge Roster Hits: -Allow me to go through these one by one. Travis Lutter - A guy who couldn't make weight, couldn't move after the first round, and had the personality of a rock. I've yet to meet anyone who's excited over a Lutter fight. Randy Cotore (Couldnt afford to pay) - It wasn't that they couldn't afford to pay the guy, read up on it. Tim Sylvia (Couldnt afford to pay) - Wrong again. Tito Ortiz - Tito Ortiz and Dana White hate eachother, White is the boss, guess what happens? Tito is a non-issue in the light heavyweight division in the UFC now anyhow, he's fallen by the wayside. Andrei Arlovski (Couldnt afford to pay) - Arlovski wanted a title fight, he wasn't going to get it. Drew Fickett (Couldnt afford to pay) - I'm starting to feel tired of repeating myself. Jake O’Brien - Lay and pray Din Thomas - Probly not the best move, this guy shoulda stayed. Kalib starnes - Getting rid of Starnes = good. Did you even watch him run? Joe Dorekson - (blah blah blah) Hironaka - Speculation CumMo - (blah blah blah) Josh Haynes - (blah blah blah) Tommy Speer - Send him back to the WEC, he's not ready yet. “But the reality is, there could be a market for Starnes.”

Yes, there are professional marathon runners.

And yet again, allow me to reply to Donny.

“UFC is running 3x the amount of shows this year than it ever has, and all of a sudden they need to cut %30 of their roster???”

- MMA is seeing more an more exciting entrants coming up in the sport, gyms are popping up everywhere, new talent with serious skill is on the horizon. They’re making space by getting rid of dead or dying weight.

read between the lines bros

- Read a book.

Key Points:

- Not really key points at all if they’re all wrong eh?

The shows overseas losing the UFC tons of money, Ireland show barley did 50k PPV buys and ended up costing the UFC close to $20 Mil according to the Yahoo article by Meltzer

- Overseas shows = establishing productions in emerging markets, you spend money to make money. Not everything is instant profit, and if you payed attention to MMA at all you’d know that this is exactly how it came up in the world anyhow, it establishes a niche market in an area and then builds on it.

The last show in london almost did 100k buys and cost them money

- (see last response, or just take a marketing course.)

The TUF show on Spike is the lowest in its history.

- Evidence please. Also saying “lowest” in its history doesn’t make any sense, are you implying lowest ratings? Is it below sea level? Is it shorter? You’re not too bright.

The last 3 UFNs were a complete bust ratings wise, barley anyone watched them.

- Actually the “extended” UFN did well, and it was a badass card, also it was on every single t.v. in every single bar/sports restaurant in the area I’m living in, including advertisements outside of said places for an UFN party.

The $325 Million Debt

- Fuck you’re dumb. Operating debt, they’re leveraging debt just like any other major company would do it. Have you ever even read a balance sheet or income statement before? Do you realize that utilizing debt capacity is a major function of achieving profits? 325 million in debt for a company that has a net income like Zuffa is not that much man, look at MSFT or GOOG and the amount of debt they’re utilizing. If you don’t know what debt really is past personal debt, don’t comment on it because all it does is make you look ignorant of finance.

They couldnt secure a Network TV deal or a deal with HBO

- Yet they just hooked up with Bud Light. Hmmmm……

The talk of a Sale to the WWE and plenty others- look it up, was reported here and mmaweekly

- Talk is talk. I also seriously doubt what you’re saying here, full of shit? Yes, you are.

The Xcience scandal - which the UFC had over $10 mil invested

- The Fertitas et all had money invested, the UFC is a corporation with its own budget, it wasn’t a proprietary creditor of Xcience (also, anyone miss those Xenergy drinks? They were actually really tasty, can’t find them around here anymore, makes me sad).

MASS FIGHTER LAYOFFS

- Less than 20 guys is not fucking “mass fighter layoffs caps lock on omg omg omg panic”.

The Pride $85 Million buy which ended up worth nothing.

- It took out the only serious competition in the international game and forced some of the best talent in the industry into the UFC. Dream et al are leveraging huge hits in profit in order to establish themselves again, as well as having to reorganize their entire employment structure. Buying out Pride was smart, lots of companies will buyout their main competition even if its faltering because they know they’ll capture more market share in the process.

Huge Roster Hits:

-Allow me to go through these one by one.

Travis Lutter

- A guy who couldn’t make weight, couldn’t move after the first round, and had the personality of a rock. I’ve yet to meet anyone who’s excited over a Lutter fight.

Randy Cotore (Couldnt afford to pay)

- It wasn’t that they couldn’t afford to pay the guy, read up on it.

Tim Sylvia (Couldnt afford to pay)

- Wrong again.

Tito Ortiz

- Tito Ortiz and Dana White hate eachother, White is the boss, guess what happens? Tito is a non-issue in the light heavyweight division in the UFC now anyhow, he’s fallen by the wayside.

Andrei Arlovski (Couldnt afford to pay)

- Arlovski wanted a title fight, he wasn’t going to get it.

Drew Fickett (Couldnt afford to pay)

- I’m starting to feel tired of repeating myself.

Jake O’Brien

- Lay and pray

Din Thomas

- Probly not the best move, this guy shoulda stayed.

Kalib starnes

- Getting rid of Starnes = good. Did you even watch him run?

Joe Dorekson

- (blah blah blah)

Hironaka

- Speculation

CumMo

- (blah blah blah)

Josh Haynes

- (blah blah blah)

Tommy Speer

- Send him back to the WEC, he’s not ready yet.

]]> By: BJJDenver http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26108 BJJDenver Tue, 06 May 2008 18:53:50 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/06/getting-dropped-by-the-ufc-might-not-be-the-end-of-the-world-for-some-fighters/#comment-26108 Last time I'm wasting space on this ridiculous, mis-informed argument. Donny you aren't even taking the time to re-phrase things so they sound different, lol. Key Points: -The shows overseas losing the UFC tons of money, Ireland show barley did 50k PPV buys and ended up costing the UFC close to $20 Mil according to the Yahoo article by Meltzer NOT ACCURATE. - The last show in london almost did 100k buys and cost them money NOT ACCURATE. - The TUF show on Spike is the lowest in its history. YES, BUT IT IS STILL AMONGST SPIKE'S HIGHEST RATED PROGRAMS AND IS DEMOGRAPHICALLY SIGNIFICANT. - The last 3 UFNs were a complete bust ratings wise, barley anyone watched them. SAME AS TUF ^^^. -The $325 Million Debt SO IT WENT UP ANOTHER 25 MIL OVERNIGHT, LOL??? - They couldnt secure a Network TV deal or a deal with HBO THEY STILL CAN AND IF EXC IS SUCCESSFUL, IT WILL ONLY ADD VALUE TO THEIR PRODUCT. -The talk of a Sale to the WWE and plenty others- look it up, was reported here and mmaweekly SO PEOPLE BLOGGED IT SO IT MUST BE ACCURATE? AND ANY COMPANY CAN BE PURCHASED, IT IS JUST A MATTER OF HAVING THE POWER TO DO SO. -The Xcience scandal - which the UFC had over $10 mil invested UFC HAD NO MONEY INVESTED. FERTITTAS AND DANA DID ON THEIR OWN AND WHO IN THE BUSINESS WORLD IS EVEN TALKING ABOUT THIS? IT IS A PIMPLE. -MASS FIGHTER LAYOFFS THEY ARE LAYING OFF EITHER UNDER PERFORMING OR UNPOPULAR FIGHTERS (STYLE WISE). IF YOU OWNED A COMPANY, WOULD YOU CONTINUE TO EMPLOY POORLY PERFORMING WORKERS? - The Pride $85 Million buy which ended up worth nothing. I WOULDN'T SAY IT WAS WORTH NOTHING AND WHILE IT SEEMS TO BE A BAD DECISION, WE HAVE YET TO SEE ALL OF THE RAMIFICATIONS IT WILL HAVE ON THE MMA LANDSCAPE. Man, I'm not sure if UFC sent you the wrong size hoodie or what, but I can't understand your reluctance to accept common sense. I'm not trying to bash you, but it seems you would buy into any conspiracy theory put out there. Last time I’m wasting space on this ridiculous, mis-informed argument. Donny you aren’t even taking the time to re-phrase things so they sound different, lol.

Key Points:

-The shows overseas losing the UFC tons of money, Ireland show barley did 50k PPV buys and ended up costing the UFC close to $20 Mil according to the Yahoo article by Meltzer
NOT ACCURATE.

- The last show in london almost did 100k buys and cost them money
NOT ACCURATE.

- The TUF show on Spike is the lowest in its history.
YES, BUT IT IS STILL AMONGST SPIKE’S HIGHEST RATED PROGRAMS AND IS DEMOGRAPHICALLY SIGNIFICANT.

- The last 3 UFNs were a complete bust ratings wise, barley anyone watched them.
SAME AS TUF ^^^.

-The $325 Million Debt
SO IT WENT UP ANOTHER 25 MIL OVERNIGHT, LOL???

- They couldnt secure a Network TV deal or a deal with HBO
THEY STILL CAN AND IF EXC IS SUCCESSFUL, IT WILL ONLY ADD VALUE TO THEIR PRODUCT.

-The talk of a Sale to the WWE and plenty others- look it up, was reported here and mmaweekly
SO PEOPLE BLOGGED IT SO IT MUST BE ACCURATE? AND ANY COMPANY CAN BE PURCHASED, IT IS JUST A MATTER OF HAVING THE POWER TO DO SO.

-The Xcience scandal - which the UFC had over $10 mil invested
UFC HAD NO MONEY INVESTED. FERTITTAS AND DANA DID ON THEIR OWN AND WHO IN THE BUSINESS WORLD IS EVEN TALKING ABOUT THIS? IT IS A PIMPLE.

-MASS FIGHTER LAYOFFS
THEY ARE LAYING OFF EITHER UNDER PERFORMING OR UNPOPULAR FIGHTERS (STYLE WISE). IF YOU OWNED A COMPANY, WOULD YOU CONTINUE TO EMPLOY POORLY PERFORMING WORKERS?

- The Pride $85 Million buy which ended up worth nothing.
I WOULDN’T SAY IT WAS WORTH NOTHING AND WHILE IT SEEMS TO BE A BAD DECISION, WE HAVE YET TO SEE ALL OF THE RAMIFICATIONS IT WILL HAVE ON THE MMA LANDSCAPE.

Man, I’m not sure if UFC sent you the wrong size hoodie or what, but I can’t understand your reluctance to accept common sense. I’m not trying to bash you, but it seems you would buy into any conspiracy theory put out there.

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