Comments on: Ortiz throws St. Pierre under the bus http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/ Your Destination for Insider MMA News and Opinion Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:09:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: triangleman http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27187 triangleman Tue, 13 May 2008 20:36:50 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27187 Ok, so as much as I feel tito has done wonders for mma the sport has past him by much like it has matt hughes. He is a great wrestler and a good striker with almost no submission prowess! When was his last big win vs. A brand name opponent, no offense forrest griffin or rashad evans but seriously! He was dominated by chuck liddell and his only wins that really come to mind were vs. Ken shamrock! He needs to save face hope he beats lyoto and pray for an offer from ufc because noone will be able to pay him what he wants! I respect what he has done but its about time he started fighting more than once a year to earn some much needed respect because his mouth is costing him what he had left Ok, so as much as I feel tito has done wonders for mma the sport has past him by much like it has matt hughes. He is a great wrestler and a good striker with almost no submission prowess! When was his last big win vs. A brand name opponent, no offense forrest griffin or rashad evans but seriously! He was dominated by chuck liddell and his only wins that really come to mind were vs. Ken shamrock! He needs to save face hope he beats lyoto and pray for an offer from ufc because noone will be able to pay him what he wants! I respect what he has done but its about time he started fighting more than once a year to earn some much needed respect because his mouth is costing him what he had left

]]> By: bjjdenver http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27169 bjjdenver Tue, 13 May 2008 18:32:13 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27169 #25 DPK... I agree. Another thing is, I think the Bud Light sponsorship is huge. Assuming they promote mma guys with their products, the mainstream acceptance will surely follow. I know guys like Fedor were getting big sponsorship money and recognition while Pride was going, and I think that will be key in the US. More exposure=more money from sponsorships=fighters in higher demand=higher salary and bigger revenues for promotions, at least that is how I see it. #25 DPK…

I agree. Another thing is, I think the Bud Light sponsorship is huge. Assuming they promote mma guys with their products, the mainstream acceptance will surely follow. I know guys like Fedor were getting big sponsorship money and recognition while Pride was going, and I think that will be key in the US. More exposure=more money from sponsorships=fighters in higher demand=higher salary and bigger revenues for promotions, at least that is how I see it.

]]> By: mike wolfe http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27089 mike wolfe Tue, 13 May 2008 05:49:08 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27089 #24 Jason: Yeah, Tito is too angry and bitter. He may feel that way, but he shouldn't express himself like that because it's too easy for those who disagree with him to write him off as a whiner or a crank. Tito has enough stature in the sport that if he gave thoughtful interviews about compensation issues that confront all fighters, he might sway opinion. But his angry rants about UFC and how they've mistreated him (which is debatable, at least in my mind) undermine his credibility. If you try to start a conversation with somebody by attacking them or their character, you're not giving yourself the chance to be persuasive. Instead of complaining about UFC, he and other fighters moving out of the UFC should try to persuade the other orgs. to pay some small residual for fights that are rebroadcast or sold in other formats. Once the precedent has been set, UFC might have to follow suit or risk losing top tier talent whose fights will generate future income. #24 Jason:

Yeah, Tito is too angry and bitter. He may feel that way, but he shouldn’t express himself like that because it’s too easy for those who disagree with him to write him off as a whiner or a crank. Tito has enough stature in the sport that if he gave thoughtful interviews about compensation issues that confront all fighters, he might sway opinion. But his angry rants about UFC and how they’ve mistreated him (which is debatable, at least in my mind) undermine his credibility. If you try to start a conversation with somebody by attacking them or their character, you’re not giving yourself the chance to be persuasive. Instead of complaining about UFC, he and other fighters moving out of the UFC should try to persuade the other orgs. to pay some small residual for fights that are rebroadcast or sold in other formats. Once the precedent has been set, UFC might have to follow suit or risk losing top tier talent whose fights will generate future income.

]]> By: L Grant http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27082 L Grant Tue, 13 May 2008 05:08:49 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27082 One of my reasons for wanting to see the top tier fighters get paid more money, is one of pure selfishness. I believe that if MMA fighters start making the 10 million dollar fight purses that we've seen in boxing, then we'll see better athletes come into MMA. Imagine a guy like Brian Urlacher, or Lebron James? These guys are serious multi-faceted athletes. Guys who can do whatever they want to do, it all comes natural to them. Imagine someone like Devon Hester putting his considerable natural prowess into MMA? He'd make GSP look like Ricco Rodriguez. Okay, that's not fair, GSP is probably pretty damn close to being on that same level as Hester. But, hopefully you get what I'm saying. The more money the fighters make, the more likely we are to see some of the pure athletes who go into football, basketball, and boxing, come into MMA. I know there are a crap load of factors other than money, but big pay days would be a start. One of my reasons for wanting to see the top tier fighters get paid more money, is one of pure selfishness.

I believe that if MMA fighters start making the 10 million dollar fight purses that we’ve seen in boxing, then we’ll see better athletes come into MMA.

Imagine a guy like Brian Urlacher, or Lebron James? These guys are serious multi-faceted athletes. Guys who can do whatever they want to do, it all comes natural to them. Imagine someone like Devon Hester putting his considerable natural prowess into MMA? He’d make GSP look like Ricco Rodriguez. Okay, that’s not fair, GSP is probably pretty damn close to being on that same level as Hester.

But, hopefully you get what I’m saying. The more money the fighters make, the more likely we are to see some of the pure athletes who go into football, basketball, and boxing, come into MMA.

I know there are a crap load of factors other than money, but big pay days would be a start.

]]> By: DPK http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27081 DPK Tue, 13 May 2008 04:44:26 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27081 I think that the top notch fighters will start making more in the future as they get better at marketing themselves, and their names move more into the mainstream. There was a great article by Kevin Iole from yahoo at the end of April comparing the paydays from an UFC event against a big ppv boxing card in Vegas. One of the best things that MMA has going for it right now is the win bonus's, and the other bonus's that get offered like knockout/submission/fight of the night. I think this prevents more Starnes like performances. I don't really care about Tito, nobody held a gun to his head and made him sign a contract with UFC. If he can make more elsewhere after this contract, go ahead. I think that the top notch fighters will start making more in the future as they get better at marketing themselves, and their names move more into the mainstream. There was a great article by Kevin Iole from yahoo at the end of April comparing the paydays from an UFC event against a big ppv boxing card in Vegas. One of the best things that MMA has going for it right now is the win bonus’s, and the other bonus’s that get offered like knockout/submission/fight of the night. I think this prevents more Starnes like performances.

I don’t really care about Tito, nobody held a gun to his head and made him sign a contract with UFC. If he can make more elsewhere after this contract, go ahead.

]]> By: jason hughes http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27063 jason hughes Tue, 13 May 2008 03:10:29 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27063 mike wolfe he might be trying to rally the fighters , do you think he is going about the wrong way ? mike wolfe he might be trying to rally the fighters , do you think he is going about the wrong way ?

]]> By: Jo http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27018 Jo Mon, 12 May 2008 23:05:28 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-27018 It was a great interview that Mania did with Tito. It was a bad move of Tito to even bring up GSP's name. I think "IF" GSP has any issues with the UFC it would be a private matter between him and his manager. I highly doubt that Tito would have had that conversation with him. Maybe Tito just thew that name out there because he knows GSP is the current face of the UFC and will be for a while. I am sure the UFC really takes what Tito says seriously..... ;) It was a great interview that Mania did with Tito. It was a bad move of Tito to even bring up GSP’s name. I think “IF” GSP has any issues with the UFC it would be a private matter between him and his manager. I highly doubt that Tito would have had that conversation with him. Maybe Tito just thew that name out there because he knows GSP is the current face of the UFC and will be for a while.

I am sure the UFC really takes what Tito says seriously….. ;)

]]> By: AH http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-26995 AH Mon, 12 May 2008 21:44:16 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-26995 I dont see how GSP would be disgusted with the UFC. They marketed him as an unstoppable force after he beat Hughes the first time... then he lost to the inferior fighter. So what did the UFC do.. they gave him a TUF alumnus that alot of fans know and who was considered in the top 10 welterweights. Then they gave him Hughes again. But wait theres more.... they gave him his title shot in front of a hometown crowd. Why wouldnt he be happy with the UFC? Tito is a jackass whos trying to piss off Dana anyway he can. I dont see how GSP would be disgusted with the UFC. They marketed him as an unstoppable force after he beat Hughes the first time… then he lost to the inferior fighter. So what did the UFC do.. they gave him a TUF alumnus that alot of fans know and who was considered in the top 10 welterweights. Then they gave him Hughes again. But wait theres more…. they gave him his title shot in front of a hometown crowd. Why wouldnt he be happy with the UFC? Tito is a jackass whos trying to piss off Dana anyway he can.

]]> By: Michael http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-26979 Michael Mon, 12 May 2008 20:47:23 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-26979 Grant, thanks! Not mean spirited at all. I understand where you are comming from as well. I would love to see each fighter making more money too, but from a business stand point, they have to start somewhere. everyone starts somewhere and has to earn their way up. I agree with the high end fighters making more money, it would be nice to see. Although i think tito is more of an attraction than a high end fighter... Like you said we are both just speculating about money they make. I'd like to see some of those high end guys making more too, but i think it will get there. Its hard to grasp that this sport was in ruins 4-5 years ago, it is smart of them to not get ahead of themselves in the spending department. The success in this sport happend so fast that expectations were set at an unrealistic growth curve...it will be intersting to see what happens in the next 2-4 years. Grant, thanks! Not mean spirited at all. I understand where you are comming from as well. I would love to see each fighter making more money too, but from a business stand point, they have to start somewhere. everyone starts somewhere and has to earn their way up. I agree with the high end fighters making more money, it would be nice to see. Although i think tito is more of an attraction than a high end fighter…

Like you said we are both just speculating about money they make. I’d like to see some of those high end guys making more too, but i think it will get there. Its hard to grasp that this sport was in ruins 4-5 years ago, it is smart of them to not get ahead of themselves in the spending department. The success in this sport happend so fast that expectations were set at an unrealistic growth curve…it will be intersting to see what happens in the next 2-4 years.

]]> By: L Grant http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-26970 L Grant Mon, 12 May 2008 20:25:01 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/12/ortiz-throws-st-pierre-under-the-bus/#comment-26970 Hey Michael (#14) I totally see where you're coming from, and you're right, other organizations have tried and failed, and it seems like the UFC has a great business model, and maybe they're doing everything right. But, like I also mentioned, I don't know if the market can't support it or not, but I think the fighters deserve more. It's entirely possible that the UFC isn't the bad guy that Tito and other fighters make them out to be. It's very possible that Affliction will find that after production costs, fighter salaries, insurance, licenses, and all the other factors that I personally have no idea about, that they'll have made a mistake, and they'll fold. But, it's also very possible that the UFC is underpaying the fighters, and not giving them their fair share. There are valid arguements to support the UFC in doing this, and to criticize them. Sometimes I think that the UFC might just be putting the cash away for a rainy day. They've experienced lean times in the past, and maybe their financial and market forecasting is showing that after the current boom, things will level out. It's possible that a lot of the profits are going into a fund that will sustain them in the hard times they forsee. Maybe they're using it to pay off old investors, and to offset a lot of the debt they incurred in the past. Maybe there are unknown factors and they're a lot closer to breaking even, than to making the massive profits, that we all think they're making. Either way, whether it's possible now, or not, what I'm saying, and maybe I miscommunicated it in my original post, is that I would like to see MMA fighters get the same pay-days that some of the top draws in boxing get. (I hope that didn't come off as snarky or mean spirited, it wasn't meant to be) Hey Michael (#14)
I totally see where you’re coming from, and you’re right, other organizations have tried and failed, and it seems like the UFC has a great business model, and maybe they’re doing everything right.

But, like I also mentioned, I don’t know if the market can’t support it or not, but I think the fighters deserve more.

It’s entirely possible that the UFC isn’t the bad guy that Tito and other fighters make them out to be.

It’s very possible that Affliction will find that after production costs, fighter salaries, insurance, licenses, and all the other factors that I personally have no idea about, that they’ll have made a mistake, and they’ll fold.

But, it’s also very possible that the UFC is underpaying the fighters, and not giving them their fair share. There are valid arguements to support the UFC in doing this, and to criticize them.

Sometimes I think that the UFC might just be putting the cash away for a rainy day. They’ve experienced lean times in the past, and maybe their financial and market forecasting is showing that after the current boom, things will level out. It’s possible that a lot of the profits are going into a fund that will sustain them in the hard times they forsee.

Maybe they’re using it to pay off old investors, and to offset a lot of the debt they incurred in the past. Maybe there are unknown factors and they’re a lot closer to breaking even, than to making the massive profits, that we all think they’re making.

Either way, whether it’s possible now, or not, what I’m saying, and maybe I miscommunicated it in my original post, is that I would like to see MMA fighters get the same pay-days that some of the top draws in boxing get.

(I hope that didn’t come off as snarky or mean spirited, it wasn’t meant to be)

]]>