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	<title>Comments on: Arizona State axes wrestling program</title>
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	<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/</link>
	<description>Your Destination for Insider MMA News and Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 09:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Tony Evinger</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27440</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Evinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 16:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27440</guid>
		<description>Mens sports like wrestling are being shut down specifically because college football programs are not being shut down.  That doesn't mean to say I think we should shut down college football.  But under the complete nonsense that is Title IX, there has to be a quota set for women's athletics based on both participation and budget for men's athletics.

So that means if you have 500 men interested in various athletic programs, you then need 500 slots for women.  If you can only afford to have 600 total athletic slots open, they have to be split equally, 300 men/300 women.  Not only that, if you have 500 men  interested, but can only find 100 women that want to compete in college athletics, you have to cut out 400 of those men to make the ratios equal or you will lose funding AND be in violation of NCAA rules in support of Title IX.  

To add to this craziness, budgets have to be equal.  So when you look at college athletics, what is the largest, most expensive sport?  Football!  So you have 60 members of a college football team, and a massive budget for training, equipment, coaches, etc.  Now you need to spend equal amounts on women's athletics, and find enough women to fill out teams in equal numbers to football.  So you have to pretty much take what you have in football, in terms of athletes and money, and double it so that you can have equal representation in women's sports.  After you do that, it is hard for colleges to have either enough money left over for other sports, or enough women interested in sports to fill out equal roles for men's wrestling, swimming, gymnastics, and plenty of other "secondary" sports that are just easier to cut than deal with the regulations and quotas created with Title IX.

Since a college is not going to cut football, as it is probably the only sport that actually brings revenue into a university, then the other men's sports get cut.  Colleges are simply not willing to give up football, because it brings about an alumni presence, games sell tickets, and it grows general university acclaim to attract new students.  Every other men's sport suffers because of this, but it is not football's fault, it is Title IX.  

A great book on this is Jessica Gavora's "Tilting the Playing Field", but be careful, because she may have watched Fox News at sometime in the past, which I am sure totally invalidates a well-researched book in a lot of peoples' closed minds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mens sports like wrestling are being shut down specifically because college football programs are not being shut down.  That doesn&#8217;t mean to say I think we should shut down college football.  But under the complete nonsense that is Title IX, there has to be a quota set for women&#8217;s athletics based on both participation and budget for men&#8217;s athletics.</p>
<p>So that means if you have 500 men interested in various athletic programs, you then need 500 slots for women.  If you can only afford to have 600 total athletic slots open, they have to be split equally, 300 men/300 women.  Not only that, if you have 500 men  interested, but can only find 100 women that want to compete in college athletics, you have to cut out 400 of those men to make the ratios equal or you will lose funding AND be in violation of NCAA rules in support of Title IX.  </p>
<p>To add to this craziness, budgets have to be equal.  So when you look at college athletics, what is the largest, most expensive sport?  Football!  So you have 60 members of a college football team, and a massive budget for training, equipment, coaches, etc.  Now you need to spend equal amounts on women&#8217;s athletics, and find enough women to fill out teams in equal numbers to football.  So you have to pretty much take what you have in football, in terms of athletes and money, and double it so that you can have equal representation in women&#8217;s sports.  After you do that, it is hard for colleges to have either enough money left over for other sports, or enough women interested in sports to fill out equal roles for men&#8217;s wrestling, swimming, gymnastics, and plenty of other &#8220;secondary&#8221; sports that are just easier to cut than deal with the regulations and quotas created with Title IX.</p>
<p>Since a college is not going to cut football, as it is probably the only sport that actually brings revenue into a university, then the other men&#8217;s sports get cut.  Colleges are simply not willing to give up football, because it brings about an alumni presence, games sell tickets, and it grows general university acclaim to attract new students.  Every other men&#8217;s sport suffers because of this, but it is not football&#8217;s fault, it is Title IX.  </p>
<p>A great book on this is Jessica Gavora&#8217;s &#8220;Tilting the Playing Field&#8221;, but be careful, because she may have watched Fox News at sometime in the past, which I am sure totally invalidates a well-researched book in a lot of peoples&#8217; closed minds.</p>
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		<title>By: DPK</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27379</link>
		<dc:creator>DPK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 04:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27379</guid>
		<description>Title IX has been one of the most twisted pieces of legislation ever implemented.  It was intended to give women more opportunities, but instead so many schools have used it to take opportunities away from men, it is just stupid.  I was actually just thinking the other day that if anything the sucess of MMA would be a major positive for Amature Wrestling, especially seeing that it was the base discipline of so many great fighters from Dan Severn, Don Frye, Mark Coleman, Randy Couture, Matt Hughes, and so many up and coming young guns.  I still think that in the long run wrestling will benefit, but it may still be a few years away.  I remember in High School trying to talk the best football players in our school into joining the team because we needed a heavyweight, and his response was that,  there is no future past college in it, and he was just going to keep focusing on football.  He eventually played D-1 football, but was never even close to making the NFL.  Now great athletes are going to start to see a future past college for wrestlers, and some better athletes will start to learn the sport, and in turn a better MMA product will be put out for the fans.

College MMA teams are an interesting thought, does anyone out there know if there is any kind of College club MMA teams that compete against each other, or is this still just a far off idea?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Title IX has been one of the most twisted pieces of legislation ever implemented.  It was intended to give women more opportunities, but instead so many schools have used it to take opportunities away from men, it is just stupid.  I was actually just thinking the other day that if anything the sucess of MMA would be a major positive for Amature Wrestling, especially seeing that it was the base discipline of so many great fighters from Dan Severn, Don Frye, Mark Coleman, Randy Couture, Matt Hughes, and so many up and coming young guns.  I still think that in the long run wrestling will benefit, but it may still be a few years away.  I remember in High School trying to talk the best football players in our school into joining the team because we needed a heavyweight, and his response was that,  there is no future past college in it, and he was just going to keep focusing on football.  He eventually played D-1 football, but was never even close to making the NFL.  Now great athletes are going to start to see a future past college for wrestlers, and some better athletes will start to learn the sport, and in turn a better MMA product will be put out for the fans.</p>
<p>College MMA teams are an interesting thought, does anyone out there know if there is any kind of College club MMA teams that compete against each other, or is this still just a far off idea?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Caplan</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27336</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Caplan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 21:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27336</guid>
		<description>Mike, I appreciate you not escalating things. Thank you kindly. I know it's not always easy turning the other cheek when it comes to these type of things, so like I said, I appreciate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, I appreciate you not escalating things. Thank you kindly. I know it&#8217;s not always easy turning the other cheek when it comes to these type of things, so like I said, I appreciate it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27334</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 21:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27334</guid>
		<description>Hey Sam:

I didn't attack Ronin, and nothing about my post was insulting.  With that quibble, I'll take heed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Sam:</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t attack Ronin, and nothing about my post was insulting.  With that quibble, I&#8217;ll take heed.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Caplan</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27306</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Caplan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 19:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27306</guid>
		<description>Guys, I've said it before but consider this your fair warning: no more personal attacks. Stay on topic and argue the merits of the topic in a civil fashion. If not, I will have no choice but to remove your posting privileges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys, I&#8217;ve said it before but consider this your fair warning: no more personal attacks. Stay on topic and argue the merits of the topic in a civil fashion. If not, I will have no choice but to remove your posting privileges.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronin</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27304</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 19:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27304</guid>
		<description>Wolfe I see you watch Fox News so having a reasonable discussion with someone that has drunken the right-wing B.S. would be pointless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wolfe I see you watch Fox News so having a reasonable discussion with someone that has drunken the right-wing B.S. would be pointless.</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27299</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 18:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27299</guid>
		<description>also football programs bring in about 60 percent of all atheltic revenue and there isnt a female equal but yet football counts against the mens budget and quota for equality</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also football programs bring in about 60 percent of all atheltic revenue and there isnt a female equal but yet football counts against the mens budget and quota for equality</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27298</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 18:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27298</guid>
		<description>football programs dont shut down because they bring in the money ... but why should a mens team with a history shut down because a womans team wants to start up and needs money.... makr my words within a year ASU will have 2 new womens programs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>football programs dont shut down because they bring in the money &#8230; but why should a mens team with a history shut down because a womans team wants to start up and needs money&#8230;. makr my words within a year ASU will have 2 new womens programs</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27292</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 18:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27292</guid>
		<description>No. 9  Ronin

At the risk of seeming picky, according to the U.S. constitution, it's Congress who passes  the budget and any other piece of legislation, such as "tax breaks" for the "rich" (who pay the vast majority of the taxes, anyway).  And if you're worried about high taxes and budget deficits, one hopes you'll listen carefully during this election cycle when specific candidates start talking about new programs.  How much will they cost, are we borrowing to pay for current programs, and what's the economic effect of tax increases to balance the books, especially in an economic downturn/recession?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. 9  Ronin</p>
<p>At the risk of seeming picky, according to the U.S. constitution, it&#8217;s Congress who passes  the budget and any other piece of legislation, such as &#8220;tax breaks&#8221; for the &#8220;rich&#8221; (who pay the vast majority of the taxes, anyway).  And if you&#8217;re worried about high taxes and budget deficits, one hopes you&#8217;ll listen carefully during this election cycle when specific candidates start talking about new programs.  How much will they cost, are we borrowing to pay for current programs, and what&#8217;s the economic effect of tax increases to balance the books, especially in an economic downturn/recession?</p>
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		<title>By: Ronin</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27291</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 18:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/05/14/arizona-state-axes-wrestling-program/#comment-27291</guid>
		<description>I don't see any Football programs shutting down because of gender equality.

You talk about a nanny state, where have you been the past 8 years?
Have you seen the problems America is facing because of the White House, the only legislation that got passed was tax breaks for the richest people, while the nation debt is out of control the budget deficit is out of control. Government has taken more rights away from from you, the Government has grown. There has been no leadership show on the economy and your guys are talking about politicians being PC.

Well I know a guy who needs a job next year he could be in charge of college and University sports programs and he not PC or Liberal and he love sports.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see any Football programs shutting down because of gender equality.</p>
<p>You talk about a nanny state, where have you been the past 8 years?<br />
Have you seen the problems America is facing because of the White House, the only legislation that got passed was tax breaks for the richest people, while the nation debt is out of control the budget deficit is out of control. Government has taken more rights away from from you, the Government has grown. There has been no leadership show on the economy and your guys are talking about politicians being PC.</p>
<p>Well I know a guy who needs a job next year he could be in charge of college and University sports programs and he not PC or Liberal and he love sports&#8230;..</p>
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