UFC 84 Thoughts & Commentary
Posted by Adam Morgan
Let me first start off by saying this was a great night of fights. Knockouts, slick submissions, some better production values from the UFC in terms of hyping the big three fights, and a conclusive ending to a great main event title fight. Solid A- in my book. Let’s get to it..
Where does B.J. Penn go from here?
A welterweight clash with St. Pierre? I hope not. There are still many intriguing fights left for Penn in the lightweight division and it’s my opinion that he needs to clean out the division before he thinks about moving back up. What he did to Sean Sherk tonight was nothing short of surgical. Sherk played right into Penn’s hand with his gameplan and stood just a bit too long with him and paid dearly. Do I think any of the contenders at 155 lbs. pose a valid threat to Penn’s crown? No. Do I think it would benefit Penn’s legacy to clean out a division? Absolutely. Penn, when focused and in shape, is made for 155 lbs. and that’s never been clearer in his career than right now.
What was Sean Sherk’s gameplan?
Sherk’s gameplan in the first two rounds was smart. Set up the striking game, wear Penn out, take it to the later rounds, and then use the established striking game to take Penn down. But during the third round, when it clearly wasn’t going Sherk’s way anymore, where were the shots? The guy has the quickest shot in all of MMA and he only tried to take Penn down once. It was almost as if he had it drilled into his mind that trying to take Penn down was futile. But that’s Sherk’s bread and butter. He has to go to that well more than once in the fight to be successful and he didn’t. He stood with Penn for too long and eventually paid the price for it. Like I said, Sherk’s gameplan from the outset was smart, but at some point he needed to switch it into a higher gear and at least try to take the fight into his own territory. On the ground is where the fight was going to be won for Sherk, not on the feet.
Is the real Wanderlei Silva back?
I’m not ready to go out on a limb and say that “The Axe Murderer” is back and ready to tear up the division. He beat a very good opponent in Keith Jardine in less than a minute’s time. Extremely impressive. But did he show you tonight that he has what it takes to climb the steep ladder at light heavyweight back to title contention? To me, he didn’t. I give credit to Silva for dominating Keith Jardine in devastating fashion. The hand on the throat and subsequent punches was the vintage Wanderlei that we’ve all seen before. That being said, there’s lots of matchup problems for him at the top of the division and until he strings together at least two in a row I’m not willing to climb back on the Wanderlei Silva bandwagon just yet.
Keith Jardine’s chin is extremely questionable
To me this is the biggest storyline coming out of this fight. I thought that the fight against Houston Alexander was an anomaly. Silva proved that to be incorrect. Jardine’s chin now becomes something that people will talk about in fight breakdowns whenever he fights from here on out. He’s been destroyed by hard hitters in Houston Alexander and Wanderlei Silva. To survive in this division you have to be able to take hard punches and dish them back out. Unfortunately for Jardine that may be the thing that keeps him out of title contention. A weak chin in this sport, and especially the UFC’s light heavyweight division, does not bode well for “The Dean of Mean.”
Tito Ortiz did not rule out a return to the UFC.
He clearly stated to Joe Rogan afterward that he had not made a decision on his next career move. He stated that all the beef between he and Dana was “bullshit.” He praised the Fertitta brothers. That sounds to me like a man that would consider coming back to the UFC for the right amount of dough. There is plenty of money to be made between Ortiz and the UFC, probably more than he can make elsewhere. I know he’s bitched about the money that the UFC has paid him in the past, but where else is he going to be put on a pay per view on the last fight of his contract? Andrei Arlovski didn’t even get that honor. He is marketable, the UFC is the biggest game in town, and they can both benefit from his staying.
Lyoto Machida continues to impress.
Some hate his style. Some like it. Hate it or love it, though, he’s as technical as they come. He’s extremely elusive, he has power in his punches, unreal takedown defense, and a style that frustrates the piss out of his opponents. You could see in Ortiz’s face that he was visibly frustrated by Machida’s style. Some people in the chat room likened him to Kalib Starnes. I don’t think that’s a valid comparison. Starnes simply ran away from Nate Quarry. What Machida does is stifle your offense, pick his spots, capitalize on opportunity, move away from trouble, and not make mistakes. He doesn’t run. He just makes you play his game and after a round or two that becomes extremely frustrating. Machida is on a roll, boring or not, and at some point they will have to recognize that he is a legitimate contender in the division, especially now that he’s beaten Ortiz. No one may want to see Machida with a strap around his waist, but it is a very real possibility.
Other musings..
- Thiago Silva got his jaw tested tonight and passed with flying colors. Once he recovered from that head kick and made a smooth transition to mount it was all over for Mendes. Credit to Mendes for coming out firing but Silva has the tools to do a lot of damage in the light heavyweight division.
- Goran Reljic was impressive in his victory over Gouveia. I thought he was out at one point during the second round but he bounced right back and dished it right back out to Wilson Gouveia. Everything about Reljic impressed me. His kicks, his striking, his smarts, everything.
- Sokoudjou bounced back but didn’t look so great in doing so. He landed the big punch that put Nakamura on his ass but looked tentative during much of the fight. Whether that was due to his knee, I don’t know but with a win he’s kept himself in the picture in the UFC. Shogun vs. Sokoudjou is something PRIDE fanboys would love to see.
- Bye, bye War Machine. I doubt we’ll see this kid in the UFC again. He’s got heart but in that division he’s going nowhere right now. Yoshida was lights out with the judo throw and the subsequent anaconda choke. He’s one fighter from overseas that’s going to do well in the UFC. He has talent, cage experience, and now a win under his belt. Look out for Yoshiyuki Yoshida.
- Rousimar Palhares’ transition from the rear naked choke to the armbar was a thing of absolute beauty. I could watch it over and over again. To UFC’s credit, they’re trying to really beef up their middleweight division and Palhares is definitely one to keep an eye on. Salaverry was there to pick up his check.
- And finally, Shane Carwin. What power. Wellisch is no joke and Carwin knocked him out cold with a picture perfect punch and subsequent airborne mouthpiece. Carwin’s bread and butter is wrestling and ground and pound. He didn’t even need those tools to demolish Wellisch. That, to me, is the scariest part of all.
- And on a personal note, I went 9 for 11 on my picks for the evening. Djeeeeah.







Was a fantastic card, went 10/11 on my picks (I really thought War Machine was gonna blast out in the first and score with a punch… I was wrong!). Loved it, great evening with a bunch of friends watching an amazing night of fights. Fuckin awesome.
I know I am the minority but I would rather see a smart fight by machida than a fight where two guys hit each other with no defense. I agree that two guys trading punches is exciting. I loved the Jardine vs. Silva fight as much as the next guy, but defense and setting up your shots is a higher level of fighting. I agree that Machida could be a little more agressive. I think he is too afraid to lose. A loss might just make him fight a little better. Also, he needs to get a little more confidence by fighting some bigger names. In the end, I think he will be a champion and will win people over with a few fights that are a little more action packed.
Machida is as technical good as it gets. If people didn’t admire the performance Lyoto put on tonight then I’m not sure they are really MMA fans. They are probably the same people hoping for a Kimbo/Tank rematch.
Who do you guys think can beat Machida? Rogan mentioned that a good striker at 205 could do it.
Where does B.J. Penn go from here?
Anywhere he wants, lol. Seriously, as long as he can keep up the schedule for defenses, let him fight who he wants. I do however see more interesting fights at 155, but nobody beating him.
What was Sean Sherk’s gameplan?
I agree that he must have been of the mind to wear him down for a couple rounds, but by then it was to late. I think Sherk was a little overconfident in his ability to withstand punishment.
Is the real Wanderlei Silva back? & Keith Jardine’s chin is extremely questionable
Perhaps and hopefully. However, i think it is more likely that the real Dean of Mean is back. Just about any fighter can land a ko punch (forrest win) and subdue a fighter with a barrage of leg kicks (Chuck). But Jardine has proven at 5-3, that he can’t win consistently at UFC level.
Tito Ortiz did not rule out a return to the UFC.
Of course he didn’t, and he proved that love him or hate him, the fans are interested in him. In the end, personal BS doesn’t matter, money does.
Lyoto Machida continues to impress.
While his style didn’t impress that much, especially against Tito, who can make many fighters look bad, win or lose, his intelligence did. he fought a smart gameplan and stuck with it. a win is a win.
Other musings..
- Thiago Silva–this guy scares me, lol.
- Goran Reljic–pretty impressive with his kicks.
- Sokoudjou–unspectacular, but a needed win.
- Bye, bye War Machine–arrivaderce, auf vedersehen, bye-bye!! (to lazy to spell, lol)
- Rousimar Palhares’ –what is a more impressive word for impressive?
- And finally, Shane Carwin–that shot made MY head hurt!
very nice card. I would say that UFC has the top 3 p4p guys as of this moment, awaiting Fedor/Sylvia.
Very fun card!
i missed the event, but did they show the trailer for the new ufc video game?
UFC 84 wow, simply is all that can be said……..
i will start with Lyoto v Tito hey im not a fan of Tito (there is nothing more than i enjoy than seeing Chuck kick is ass, it just puts me in a great mood) Tito could hit, takedown kick or do anything agianst Lyoto and yet almost got the armbar/triangle combo where the hell did that come from awesome by Tito, and way to kiss ass to the brothers to try and keep that ZUFFA check coming bye bye Tito thx for 11years seriously….
ive always been on the Wanderlei “bandwagon”, people have been super harsh on him losing 3 in-a-row, damn who fights those 3 guys in-a-row anyways seriously…… Keith Jardine looked intense and Wanderlei looked ready then wow did you f~ing see that my god Wand can still destroy people (cuz the head tattoo was back), wow less than a minute, omy god Jardine isnt moving, thats the way i felt about that… Jardine (whom i like) is not yet a “true contender” sorry its true…. Wanderlei is still great and still should go down to 185 imho…… great to see him “bring the viloence”
.BJ Penn, that fight was surgical Sean imo was afraid to go for his usual take down power because it looked to me that BJ was setting up the knee the moment he for it…. that flying knee was soooo great my goodness then the patented licking the blood of his opponent, and actually running over to wipe it off of seans face the lick wow that little man maybe a lil crazy but its great
i could go on and on this was a great card subs ko’s talent beyond beleif way to “step it up”" UFC way to show everyone the are by and large the best orginazation out there, they have shown with this card there is no true competetion out there just yet….. wow great night of fights thank you ZUFFA cant wait to be at the WEC June 1……
first of all.. i too hope that BJ doesn’t try to fight GSP.. that’s the last thing he needs right now.. he needs to stick around the LW division and really CEMENT his legacy.. then.. and only then.. he should try to fight GSP again..
now.. as for Machida.. I’d say Rashad could beat him on a good day.. Thiago could definately beat him.. Tito could beat him in a rematch.. Chuck could beat him.. there are plenty of people that can beat Machida.. believe that..
Machida, Machida, Machida.. oh, man…
i’ve never liked Machida..
he just down right annoys me..
don’t ask me why.. cause i just don’t know.. but i can’t stand the guy..
Now, i’m not the typical ‘fight-fan’ that likes nothing but a slugfest [although i do like them].. hell, i’d much rather watch a “Diaz/Sanchez” or a “Hansen/Alvarez”… but.. i can’t stand fights like Machida/Ortiz…
i mean, with just a few less punches, you could’ve rightfully called Machida KALIB STARNES..
Machida landed 0 affective shots with the exception of the knee in the third.. that i’ll give him credit for..
man.. when Tito slapped on that triangle.. i was just praying that Machida would tap.. but nope.. thus.. my night was partially ruined..
but what about wandy/jardine.. that was one of the most brutal KO’s i’ve seen in a looooooooong time… he had him by the throat just pounding him!
man, i’m soooo glad to see Wandy back on the winning side and more dangerous than ever..
“Unfortunately for Jardine that may be the thing that keeps him out of title contention”
hell, even if it doesn’t.. they’ll find something that will.. i mean.. after beating Forrest [the current title challenger] and Chuck [former champ, future hall-of-fame'r] and still getting Wandy thrown at him.. i don’t think he’ll ever see a title shot..
and as for sherk?
man, he shoulda taken it to the ground.. rather than pulling a frank shammy and having his ego be the reason he striked with penn.. he actually had that in his gameplan.. i’ll give him credit for that.. but there were some parts in the third round where i saw Penn kind of panting.. and Sherk shoulda capitalized.. but he didn’t.. and the fact that he got KO’d is no body’s fault but his own..
now.. some of you know that Ivan Salaverry is one of my favorite fighters.. and i’m sad to say that we’ll probably never see him in the UFC again.. but what’s worse is that.. at this point.. i wouldn’t be suprised if he’s done for good.. i fell in love with Ivan’s fight-game as i saw some of his early fights.. he has such a technical stand-up game.. and it flows so perfectly into his ground game.. which is also brilliant.. for those of you that have only seen his fights w/ Terry Martin or Palhares.. i strongly suggest checking out his fights w/ Semenov.. Riggs… and Fryklund.. great fighter..
*tear
[lol, jk..]
but.. on the real.. Palhares is gonna be DANGEROUS at MW.. dude is a HUUUUUUGE MW… and his ground game was tight.. he didn’t let Ivan breathe at all..
and right before i end.. i just wanna bring up the thiago silva fight.. HOLY CRAP.. no one has ever owned Thiago that badly up until tonight.. mad props to mendes for hurting Silva badly just before being finished…
ohhh the Game plan of Sherk, that was we were talking in chat room, wasnt it?
i started to think again after the fight, i Agree with u Adam, his Game plan was smart and logical. Maybe he was thinking to finish on the ground at 4th and the Last round.
but unfortunatly, BJ `s preparation for this fight took over Sherk`s game plan. BJ Penn dindt get gassed. He must have prepared for full rounds fight as well.
With Ken Shamrocks`s word on NBC Strikeforce, “Explode” , thats it. BJ Penn read the timing to “Explode”. Sherk has missed it. Amazing thing is BJ grabed it at the last few secs of 3rd Round. At first i was really confused like “WHAT? Sherk really hurts hand? or due to cut around eye?”
They called the fight “Boxing match” but it looked “Psychological match” to me.
BUY THE TAN/KIM FIGHT! It was a crime that it was not shown. I’m glad they showed a lot, but this fight showcased some great skills.
Great match making, great entertaining card.
BJ was great, I would love to see him against GSP, but I would rather see him clean out the Lightweights right now. Sherk won’t be gone long, looks like there may be an interm or vacant title in the near future of this division.
I want to see more Carwin as soon as possible. This guy is a monster, and with only a 44 second match hopefully he’ll be back by the end of the summer.
Machida’s next fight should be against the Rampage/Forrest winner, this guy doesn’t get hit or taken down that was impressive tonight. Thiago vs Wandy for the next shot after that anyone?
Palhares vs. Ricardo Almeida was a fight that came to mind right away watching tonight assuming Almeida gets past Cote in a few months. That submission was increadible, he made that look so easy.
Sherks gameplan would have worked had he not been completely delusional. He said that he thought he was keeping up on his striking. Shouldn’t his face be the barometer on whether or not he is keeping up in the fight? It reminded me of when Even Tanner lost his title to Rich Franklin.
Penn is way too ambitious to try and move up a weight class to try and get two belts. I’m sure he wants to avenge his loss and hold two titles (he is ambitious). I agree there are some contenders in the his division yet. Both Florian and Huerta as well as the incredibly under-rated Clay Guida (my favorite lightweight).
I felt bad for Jardine but I wanted Wanderleigh to win just because he deserved to be a force in the LHW division. I think even if he would of lost that fight, he still would and should be a bigger ticket fighter.
Machida and Tito. Tito is way too one dimensional to beat Machida. Machida was not running he is just smart and working his game. It was still an exciting fight. If you see a good fighter get reduced to the caliber of fighter on this seasons TUF, you are seeing some good fighting. Machida will hold the title, I promise you that.
Machida is garbage. All he does is back up. If both fighters back up, there is no fight. He is the most boring fighter in history. I could kick this clowns ass.
Wand strikes again. if he gets inside you, you die. jardine should have known that fighting a counter striker and fighting a striker are 2 different things. BJ still king true but where was the shoot from sherk? (strange).
as for machida boring but clinical. (hard to sell) Tito gone but money waits for him so good luck. please no Carwin is the next big thing storys because hitting hard is good but in this game makes you a circus act (tank/kimbo for now)
that was one of the best cards i’ve seen in the last 12 months…only one fight going to a decision? everyone came out to fight, and when that happens i could care less WHO is fighting, let alone all of the high end talent that was on display. btw, palhares will be wearing the 85 belt w/in the next 12-18 months. a silva is NOT, and i repeat, NOT a legit black belt and will get submitted quickly by this kid. mark my words, we’ll all be talking about him as a top 5 p4p guy w/in the aforementioned time frame. laugh now caplan, but you’ll be drinking that kool aid soon enough.
Great night of fights and chat was fun.
And yeah, 10-1 on picks. GODAMN YOU TITO! Ruined what would have been a perfect night for predictions.
For the people who say Machida only backs up… You probly didn’t watch him fight. Machida doesn’t back up, he has a different style of offense and defense, in the Tito fight he was essentially the only guy actually attacking and scoring, and he did it a lot. Tito’s lead leg has to be a little funky after all those kicks, Machida was consistently landing punches and cut Tito open, Machida dodged like 85% of everything Tito threw and Machida did what he wanted and made Tito frustrated and open to mistakes. Machida is a great fighter, he’s just not the norm. Guess some people don’t get that.
Wow, excellent card last night. Great job by the UFC showing us so many undercard fights as well. I really enjoyed the entire show.
My highlight though was the Machida-Ortiz fight. What Machida did out there was amazing. The guy basically has flawless technique, and never misses his opportunity to strike when he does. With all the drama surrounding Tito in that fight to have him go for the triangle/armbar at the end was amazing and right after Machida threw that great flying knee to his midsection. Spectacular!!!
Great to see the Axe Murderer back in the win column. I will admit I was getting a little nervous that if he lost again it might be over for him. Glad that is not the case and I am glad we will see him again in the octagon.
I was excited for the undercard of this show a long time ago, with all the excellent prospects on it. And none of them disappointed at all. Carwin, Toquinho, Kim and Yoshida all dominated their opponents. Excellent submissions by Palhares and Yoshida as well. Very nice usage of elbows from Kim too, he pounded on Tan with more elbows then I have ever seen in a fight. Elbow after elbow after elbow.
Comparing Machida’s style to Starnes’s running is completely stupid.
That was a fun event. 9 fights!? Awesome.
I wouldn’t call it a weak chin. Jardine is simply vulnerable when a smaller guy gets inside his gangly reach. Anybody will go down from a clean punch right above the ear, strong chin or not.
In the cluster-f**k that is the UFC LHW title picture, the Axe Murderer is qualified as a top contender. He lost a decision to Liddell, but has beaten Rampage twice, and has fought almost every other top 205er in history. And after losing to Tito and Jardine, Forrest gets one win against a gassed and injured fighter and is all of a sudden the top contender?
Machida looked good. Regardless of the talk about his elusiveness/running away, he did some real damage. That knee to the solar plexus/liver was vicious. Well timed and aimed.
Tito’s triangle was almost the most surprising moment in UFC history. Almost.
BJ needs to beat up on Griffin, Huerta, Danzig, Edgar, Guida, etc before we see him in ANOTHER fight with Rush… A fight that was only close because Penn poked him in the eye to slow him down.
Don’t fall in love with Palhares just yet. He looks like a Middleweight version of Gonzaga… Alot of size and hype. Needs to prove himself. And Spiders knees won’t miss when a shrimp like Palhares shoots in. Remember what Spider did to Carlos Newton?
MACHIDA IS A CHICKENSHIT! HE SHOULD NEVER GET A TITLE SHOT.
First off, all you clowns saying Machida isn’t for real don’t know shit about MMA. He made Tito fight his fight, and refused to get sucked into some barroom brawl like Tito wanted. Plus, that flying knee right at the end of the third was awesome.
Second, I hope Jardine is headed back to New Mexico to find himself a chin. Goddam did he get schooled!! I like Jardine, but I think he’s got a long way to go if he ever hopes to get a title shot. The biggest surprise of the night is that Rogan didn’t say, ‘rape choke’ when Wandi had his hand on Jardine’s throat!! C’mon Joe!!!
Anyone who thinks Lyoto was running around really needs to learn more about MMA.
“a silva is NOT, and i repeat, NOT a legit black belt and will get submitted quickly by this kid. mark my words”
come on dude.. that’s RIDICULOUS.. as far as you know, plahares is gonna lose his next fight.. plus, with the MW division the UFC has right now, he’ll probably never get a title shot..
and..
I was thinking that Silva should move down to MW regardless of whether he beat Jardine or not.. but.. after that.. idk if he should any more.. i mean.. that was brutal.. and he could mess up alot of LHW’s with more performances like that..
and with all Machida drama aside.. I don’t think he’ll ever be champion.. not only do i feel he can be beaten by some of the top ten LHW’s like Rampage, Forrest, or Chuck.. but he can’t be sold.. it’s impossible.. because they don’t have to sell him to us.. they have to sell him to the drunkards that scream “KNOCK HIS ASS OUTTTTT!!” Obviously Machida’s good with this elusive/counter/awkward-to-deal-with kind of style he uses because he’s won 4 or 5 times with it in the UFC now.. but.. he’s good as an aggressive attacker to.. Take a look at his fights with Stephan Bonnar and Rich Franklin.. two amazing fighters.. he totally messed them up.. and he did it without pulling a Muhammad Ali.. It’s not like he has a questionable chin.. because he’s fought the best of strikers and he’s never lost, let alone gotten KO’d.. sooo i don’t see why he doesn’t just fight like he did in the old days.. i mean.. either way he wins..
Any moron who thinks that Machida is chicken shouldn’t be allowed to watch MMA as they obviously have no appreciation of the level of skill that he displays. Machida is awesome.
IF MACHIDA WASNT SUCH A CHINKEN SHIT ,HE WOULD OF BEEN ABLE TO FINISH TITO . WHEN MACHIDA THROUGH THAT KNEE THAT HURT ORTIZ IN THE 3RD , ANYBODY ELSE WOULD HAVE FINISH HIM . THE REASON WHY HE DIDNT FINISH HIM IS BECAUSE RIGHT WHEN HE THREW THE KNEE HE STARTED TO RUN. SO INSTEAD JUMPING ON HIM RIGHT AWAY , HE RAN AWAY GIVIN TITO TIME TO RECOVER. MACHIDA SHOULD GO BACK TO POINT SPARRING WHERE HE BELONGS. AND U SAY (MARK ONE) THAT I SHOULDNT BE ALLOW TO WATCH MMA . I KNOW MORE ADOUT MMA THEN U WILL EVER KNOW. I PUT MACHIDA IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS KALIB STARNES.
Robert,
Did you even watch the fight? As soon as Machida landed that knee he was on top of Tito banging away with elbows, even landing one flush that cut Tito wide open. Watch a replay dude. Machida dominated Ortiz, end of story.
He did not dominated Ortiz .and i did watch the replay ,when he through the knee he started to run and realize that he hurt tito so he jump on him and still couldnt finish him. Im not saying he doesnt have any skill, but he doesnt fight to win he fights not to lose. He runs way to much. Mark my words , he will not get a title shot if he keeps fighting the way he does. He just not an exciting fighter. People will not pay to see him fight if he was champ.