EliteXC: “Primetime” Thoughts & Commentary
Huckaby just posted a great pros and cons article below so I’ll stick to the basics and give you some quick thoughts on the show.
- Gus Johnson was awesome. I’ve always been a fan of Johnson’s work on the NFL broadcasts and the NCAA basketball broadcasts so I was excited to see him working with EliteXC in the same capacity. But his performance tonight was fantastic and brought a great level of excitement to the fights with a familiar voice. Plus having him do in-ring interviews with the fighters as opposed to Frank Shamrock, who usually does them, brought a real degree of professionalism to the broadcast. Props to Gus for keeping it real, talking when he needed to talk, and letting Mauro and Shamrock do their thing when they needed to. The three man booth needs a little tightening up but overall it was a good showing from the commentary team.
- The dancing girls need to go. This point has been hashed out time and time again. On Showtime they’re tolerable because that’s a premium cable channel. But you don’t roll those ladies out in their skimpies on national television. It makes the product come across as sleazy. Not to mention cheesy.
- Brett Rogers has some insane power in his hands. Jon Murphy hits hard and can take a punch but Rogers floored him with power. He delivered to the fans exactly what they wanted to see.
- Frank Shamrock’s “MMA 101″ bit at the beginning was a very good idea and something that needed to be done to explain to fans who might be tuning in for the first time what exactly they will and will not see inside the cage. Shamrock is just the kind of personality and ambassador for the sport that EliteXC needs doing these kinds of bits and this piece delivered. If you were a hardcore fan you already knew everything he was talking about but if you’re someone tuning into MMA for the first time then it was probably extremely helpful.
- Phil Baroni. Where does he go from here? Weak stamina, weak chin, weak gameplan. Baroni has now lost four out of his last five fights. He’s an entertaining guy, he likes to give the fans what they want, but at some point you have to think about what’s best for you, and that’s winning fights. Villasenor made him look silly tonight.
- No commercials between rounds. This is how the sport should be presented. Some of the drama is lost during UFC events on Spike because they cut to commercial during the round breaks. But during this event you got to see the cuts between the rounds, whether or not a fighter looked gassed or not, and more importantly, instructions from the corner. Being able to get an inside look at what the fighter is going through between rounds and what his corner is saying to him just adds to the drama of the fight. Plus, less commercials for Street Fighter 4 make me happy.
- Gina Carano has serious power and took some of Kaitlin Young’s best shots. Size and power combined proved to be Young’s undoing. How about that gogoplata attempt from Carano? It looked like she may have had it at one point but her leg ended up being too low under Young’s chin. Good showing. Kaitlin was game and I wish it had gone a third round but she was clearly outsized and outclassed on the feet and her face was messed. As much as I don’t agree with EliteXC’s preferential treatment of Carano and her weight issues, she was impressive tonight in the toughest test of her young career and deserves her props.
- Lawler vs. Smith was turning into a five round version of Bonnar/Griffin and it was stopped because why? Isn’t Smith supposed to get five minutes to recover from an accidental thumb in the eye? God forbid he get the full five minutes and then let the doctors talk to him and make their decision. The fight of the night was ruined by outside influence, EliteXC got screwed out of a fantastic fight on free TV, and MMA as a whole could have benefited from that fight going the distance. Instead we’re left with a no-contest, a fighter who clearly wanted to still fight, and an unhappy crowd watching at home and live.
- How anyone can boo during the aforementioned fight is beyond me. This was a great fight before it got stopped and every time there was even the slightest lull in action the crowd would boo. As I’ve said before, not every fight is going to be Frye/Takayama and if they were, then MMA would suck. If you can’t appreciate what was going on during that fight then you might as well not be watching the sport.
- And yes, as Huckaby said below about the Kimbo fight, I disagree with the idea that the fix was in, that the stoppage wasn’t legitimate, and of all things, that the fight should have been stopped during round two. Was the stoppage a bit premature? Maybe. Thompson took four unanswered blows to the dome and his ear was exploded and bleeding profusely. If you look at the replay, Thompson’s eyes tell the whole story. To me he looked like he was done. One more blow probably would have ended his night. That being said, Miragliotta probably should have let the fight continue and let Kimbo do his thing. Who knows, maybe Thompson would have come back but I doubt it.
- There is a contingent of people saying that the fight should have been stopped at the end of round two? Give me a break. Thompson’s punches were not anything for Kimbo to be concerned about and they certainly were not hurting him. They were pitter-pat punches and elbows and yes, he landed a lot of them. But they were never enough to warrant the stoppage of a fight, even in the most high-caliber of MMA fights. Just when you thought Miragliotta might step in to end it, Kimbo reached up, grabbed a hand to defend and impeded Thompson’s progress. Some people are likening it to Hughes/Penn 2 which is totally uncalled for. Both of Penn’s arms were completely trapped and immobile during that fight. Such was not the case for this fight. If the fight would have ended that way, we’d have people commenting about how terrible the stoppage was. You can’t have your cake and eat it, too.
- Finally, Kimbo has improved but has a long ways to go. He showed tonight that he has good power, can take a punch, and can manage to do some good work off his back when he has gas. But he also had no idea what to do when he was mashed up against the cage with Thompson in side control. He also gassed mid-way through the second round. He’s a 3-0 fighter with 3-0 skills. Kimbo’s handlers would be wise to keep him away from Roy Nelson, who at this point I think would handily defeat Kimbo. If Nelson has Kimbo in the same position that Thompson had him in round two, you can be rest assured he finishes the fight. Slice showed tonight that he’s no match for someone like Nelson yet.
- Overall, like Huck, I enjoyed the show. I don’t get why so many people are taking a dump on it but to each their own. I wish the Lawler/Smith fight wouldn’t have been stopped the way it did and would have maybe liked to have seen a more decisive ending to the Kimbo/Thompson fight but I thought overall that the show was entertaining and enjoyable. Let’s hope there’s a next time.
Adam Morgan is
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I will say, I thought the commentary was very weak and some of the camerawork was shoddy. I didn’t even realize Carano was going for a gogoplata until they showed a better angle after the round, and I don’t recall any of the announcers talking about it while she was working it. You know Rogan and the UFC camera guys would have been all over that shit.
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To have a no contest and an early stoppage in the top two fights in the event has to be a huge disappointment. Epic battle canceled. Knockout real highlight canceled. Very anti climatic.
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Kimbo tapped out in the 1st round, I saw it with my own eyes, I guess the camera was elsewhere….
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The commentary was terrible. Anderson Silva then Robbie Lawler at 185…Please. The announce team made the Elite XC roster sound like all top ten pound for pound talent. The roster is just a bunch of rag tag wec and ufc rejects with a few exceptions. Carano looked good and ended up as the fight of the night. The Lawler Vs Smith fight was going well and was turning into a battle before the early stoppage. Why was it stopped? What happenend to the five minute wait peroid? I have been open minded about Kimbo but that guy sucks. That fight should have been stopped in the second round. Was the fix in? Check out the judges score cards for the second round. 10-8 thompson, 10-9 thompson, 10-9 Kimbo ? What about Thompson passing guard and taking side control then promptly being stood up? He just gained the dominate position! What the hell is really going on. James Thompson had every right to be pissed with the ref. First time viewers probably left the show thinking the fix was in. Gary Shaw blew this great opportunitiy to take our sport mainstream. The show came off as a T&A filled rap video instead of a martial arts events. I will NEVER bad mouth Dana White EVER again. Thank God for PULVER VS FABER TONIGHT!!!! War lil evil
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My biggest problem with the show was the pacing. The first fight came nearly 30 minutes into the broadcast, and all told there was just over two minutes of in-cage action in the first hour.
My other problem was with the matchmaking. Every fighter was one who preferred to slug on the feet. There was no one there to showcase the other facets of MMA.
Otherwise, I think I agree with everything in your write-up.
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the Street Fighter IV commercial was incredible! don’t be a hater.
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My bad Kimbo did tap in the first round…How many other saw that when THompson had the standing Guillitine! Again was the fix in?
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I think the fight should have been stopped after Kimbo received all those elbows. They may have looked from the outside like they were not doing anything but the main thing is Kimbo wasnt doing anything to defend himself he could barely get up after the round. Looks like Elite XC is trying to protect their star.Thompson was rattled but he didnt fall to the ground and they stopped it I was dissapointed. Kimbo’s time will come he’s got great stand up but tonight he showed the world where he deserves to be ranked in the MMA heavyweight division and thats not in the top teir his cardio was really lacking I cant wait to see him fight a top ten opponent.If you watch Inside MMA and seen Elite XC’s president comment on Kimbo its like Kimbo is Jesus and the rest of the heavyweight fighters are his diciples. Like Tim Sylvia said before the event on Inside MMA Lawler and Smith deserved to be the main event.They wont be able to protect Kimbo for long…
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good stuff from Gus Johnson and the dancers are hot, but lame….
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#3 – Kimbo didn’t tap he gave the thumbs up when he was in the guillotine to show he was alright.
Nice recap of the events I agree with almost everything. I also don’t understand why people think it should of been stopped in the 2nd round when JT was dropping those love taps. If they really were doing damage and *if* all 30 of them landed then how come Kimbo didn’t have any cuts or bruising to his face… to me it seemed like they had zero power on them and JT blew his chance when he could of pulled off an easy submission or at least knee kimbo to the chest.
I also noticed that Kimbo looked understandably nervous during the introductions, I’m wondering if he partially gassed because of nerves , from his few submission attempts or if he just has zero cardio?
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I thought the production value was as trashy and hackneyed as a Super Bowl halftime show. They try to appeal to everyone and end up appealing to no one.
The entire card sucked. There were huge implications for the promotion of MMA and I can only hope (but doubt) that it helped.
The first 2 fights ended so quickly (with crappy fighters, strikers only). Then they would cut to a fighter welding and talking about heart and training and all this other crap. They tried to portray it as a sport but then have it execute as a WWE brawl. They really should have tried to class it up to give it the air of a sport.
The Lawler fight was not that great it was 2 guys striking and nothing else. Absolutely nothing else and it was a poor boxing match. They could have changed up their game plan a little bit. Lawlers flying knee was tight!!! The stoppage was not good for their event. I thought this would be a good fight.
The Carano fight was actually okay. I’m not sure of the veracity of the stoppage. It was definitely more viable than the Lawler stoppage. At least there was somewhat of a ground game. The fight looked good compared to the other fights.
The Kimbo fight was the best, by far. Kimbo was out striking him without question. On the score card was definitely in Thompson’s favor though. He dominated him on the ground. They battled back and forth. I think the 35 seconds of uncontested hits could have been a technical yet undeserved stoppage because they were weak but by definition of the rules that could have stopped it. I thought the actual stoppage was un-just. I thought confetti was going to fly out of that dumpling on Thompsons ear. However, the blood did not seem to be in his eyes. Kimbo had a strikers chance but was so gased if it would have went to the ground that would have been all she wrote.
There was no/little way Kimbo was going to lose this fight (fixed or at least slanted). That is very unfortunate. Mirgliota is a shit ref. I always hate his judgment calls.
All in all I would call the event a failure. The Kimbo fight was good, the rest of the fights sucked, and the overall event was the trashy cousin of a UFC event. I just hope that this event doesn’t feed into this trend that seems to force fighters to be strikers, and have all kinds of “Drama” matches. If they wanted to spend the begining of the show calling it a complex and honorable sport (of which it is) then they should have tried to portray it like one.
The bottom line is I’m sure a ton of people watched so on paper it will look good to the network. The true test will be with the next event.
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Here are my thoughts:
-Baroni should hang it up.
-Rogers is ok, but I’m not sold on him at this point.
-The production started out slow with 2 bad fights, but picked up steam as it got on.
-The dancing girls…well it takes”dancing girls” to make the world go ’round, lol.
-Gina was impressive, but i still want to see her fight someone her own size. This stoppage was warranted, Young’s eye was jacked and she was taking a one-sided beating.
-Smith/Lawler was a great fight, what were the morons booing??? That doctor should never be allowed in a fight again. terrible stoppage.
-Thompson showed more heart tonight, and I wouldn’t mind a rematch. This is obviously a good test for Kimbo’s level, so it would be fine with me.
-I haven’t seen an ear move like that since the Goonies!! Why wouldn’t you drain it before the fight?
-Kimbo. Damn, I actually caught myself rooting him on tonight! While I think all the criticism he gets is mostly off base, I never counted myself as a fan. Maybe it was the adversity he was dealing with that had me pulling for him. He showed a couple flashes on the ground, but I think having all that weight on him, just took a toll. Many are saying the fight was fixed, it wasn’t. Was it stopped early? maybe by a punch or two, but it was over. JT had no legs and he was done, see my comment below as to why. Kimbo looked like a guy starting his mma career, which is what he is. I always felt that the hype was overdone, but so was all the calling for him to fight a big time HW. Now we know where he is, a couple of years away from being competitive with a top 10-15 fighter.
So the show was a B- for me, and that is for the whole production. With better camera work, tighter packaging and better match ups/fights, i think it will be good.
here is my opinion/dilemma:
It seemed obvious to me, that the refs were instructed to not let things get out of hand on network prime time. Of course no promotion wants a fighter to ever get a serious injury, so that isn’t the problem. What I saw was, not, “don’t let anyone get hurt”, but rather “let’s show the world that mma and EXC err on the side of safety and this sport is not as brutal as some media will say”. So in other words, at the first sign of “trouble”, stop it or get the Doctor, which imo, resulted in what we saw tonight.
my examples:
-Rogers ko, while not premature, the ref wasted no time in getting in there.
-Young’s stoppage, I think this would have happened anywhere. her eye was bad and she was taking a beating. I really don’t see how they could have let this go to the 3rd.
-Smith’s NC. This was the prime example, imo. Why exactly was this stopped? His eye looked fine and he wanted to continue. In the very least, give him his 5 minutes. One of the worst stoppages i have seen.
-Kimbo’s KO, It may have been stopped a little early, but it was inevitable, imo. JT was stumbling, his ear could have sustained serious damage (see Ludwig/Gomi) and i don’t think they want it to be any more brutal then necessary on CBS.
So, all things considered, it was somewhat entertaining, but i’m not sold on CBS being the home of mma if it is going to impact what happens in the fights themselves.
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For all of you who didn’t think the fight was a fix goto http://www.mmapayout.com and look down at EliteXC coverage to the “I Saw the Sign” article.
If thats not slanted I don’t know what is.
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Joe K – I don’t see how them giving away free signs is a fix? I have gone to many football, baseball games and the local team always gives away free stuff supporting the local team.
Obviously Kimbo is their “attraction” Gary Shaw said it himself at the weigh ins, so makes sense to me that they’d try to promote him with signs for the fans.
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LOL @ the people complaining about the Doctor stoppage. Yes, it is hard for us to see why she stopped it but I trust her medical judgment way more than what we can see on TV.
Yes, Smith looked fine to us but, if I had to guess, I’d guess that the doc saw Smith’s eyes not respond the way they should (to light, tracking, focus adjustment) suggesting possible nerve damage. If that is the case, then Smith might _feel_ fine and still be mentally there. He was pleading to continue, after all. We wouldn’t be able to see that kind of damage at home and his face looked like it did not warrant a stop.
The doctor probably should have waited until Smith had a few more minutes to recover (I think he had 4 of his 5 minutes left) but, if my hunch above is correct, then that extra time would not have changed the outcome. Nerve damage would take a lot longer than a few minutes to heal.
Overall, I thought it was an okay show. I was entertained by some parts of it. The overall pace was slow and I was a little surprised to see so little lateral movement in the Carano-Young fight. Young seemed timid and walked forward into kicks. It was nice that they put all the commercials in-between the fights and let us see the time between rounds. Kimbo showed everyone that he really _is_ young in MMA and at least a few years away from contending. Villasenor, Smith & Lawler were classy. Smith showed a lot of heart in the fight and some honesty afterward too.
Lastly, I get CBS in HD over the air where I live and it was awesome to behold. They should probably turn down the sensitivity of the mics on their cameras, though. We obviously heard things they didn’t intend for us to hear.
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Just to clarify the whole Lawler/Smith thing- I was there at the press table and spoke to one of the guys from the commission:
The doctors WERE the ones who stopped it. Smith told them several times that he couldn’t see – that’s what they based their decision on. Was it bogus? Yeah, kinda. But docs have the last say.
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# 14 Brandon:
See post 41 of the previous article.
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So, Beef, you don’t think the doctors decision was influenced by the fact it was on primetime network TV?
When was the last time you saw a fight stopped for that?
It has been some time, but when it happens, it usually is a devastating injury to the eye with massive swelling and redness.
I wish I could agree with you, but I think it would be naive not to recognize why she was so quick to stop that fight.
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#18,
A “devastating injury to the eye with massive swelling and redness” is likely a injury/inflammation to the external soft tissue around the eye. The eye may be physically injured itself, though, which is _definitely_ more serious and may never heal back to normal, just look @ UFC fighter Jonathan Goulet. Believe it or not, neither is as serious (in my book) as nerve damage since they both heal faster/easier. You may look funny afterward but permanent, debilitating damage is less likely.
Looks like my hunch was incorrect* but loss of vision is pretty serious. That means that either his cornea is scratched (moderately serious) or something is wrong with the optic nerve (extremely serious). In this context, there was likely some of both. Unfortunately, those are not things the doctors can test for ringside so they have to go by what their patient (Scott Smith) tells them. If Smith repeatedly told them that he couldn’t see (blindness), then they _have_ to believe him and stop the fight. Maybe he really could see but it was blurry (pointing toward the scratched cornea). If that was the case, then he should have clarified that his vision was blurry in his right eye. That is a serious handicap in a fight but not a permanent-vision-threatening injury.
Was the doctor pressured into being extra cautious? Maybe. I can’t know. She should have definitely asked him to clarify whether “I can’t see” meant blurry vision or blindness (no vison at all). If she didn’t ask him that, then who knows? Does she have prior experience at ringside? In the absence of these answers, I have to give the professional doctor the benefit of the doubt and trust her judgment. Thus I think/accept that it was a proper doctor stoppage.
* Also, what anyone besides the doctor said in a press conference is hearsay. Maybe she _did_ also see one of the signs I mentioned in Smith’s eye(s). If yes, then there would be no question that the fight had to be stopped then and there.
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Sorry for the super long posts…
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early stoppage, preferential treatment for some fighters, suckers doctors…etc.
a lame promotion.
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Can someone please buy Kimbo a real flag so he can stop brining his beach towel to the ring?
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I swore I was watching WWE! The commentary could have been better. The best fight of the night was Gina Carano & Kaitlin Young. The rest of them are a bunch of washed up has been’s. Kimbo fight , no doubt fixed ! Watching him , he better never get in the cage with a Couture or Fedor they would put a beat down on him, he’s not even close to the caliber of fighter they are.
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why are you comparing Kimbo to Couture/Fedor? The guy has THREE fights. Seriously, just because he’s famous and can draw crowds doesn’t mean he is the greatest fighter.
Kimbo is like the American version of Bob Sapp from his Japanese K-1 days. Everyone knew he sucked but he looked the part and his fights were usually the main event. Kimbo just proves that American MMA fans are just as guillible as the Japanese.
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Thanks for the response Beef.
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