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UFC 85 Thoughts & Commentary

Is Matt Hughes done?

Yes and no. Can he compete at the top of the 170 lbs. division anymore? I don’t think so. Granted, he took the fight on short notice and Alves missed weight but it’s become clear that Hughes is a one-dimensional fighter with no backup plan if the takedowns and ground and pound aren’t working. I think he has one fight left in him and that’s the fight with Matt Serra and then he’s done. Certainly the UFC will let him compete for however long he wants because of what he’s done for them and his legacy but even Hughes has to know that his time is nearly up. A retirement bout with Serra is the only fight that makes sense at this point and I don’t think Hughes wants to be the gatekeeper at 170 lbs. It’s never been clearer that he is no longer fit to fight the competitors at the top of the division.

Thiago Alves in no way deserves a title shot.

Getting busted for diuretics and then not making weight against Matt Hughes are grounds enough to dismiss him back down the welterweight ladder in my opinion. Saying you’ve been a “good boy” in the post-fight interview and asking Dana White for a title shot doesn’t make you qualified for a title shot. And on top of that, I don’t think being a “good boy” usually involves getting busted for a diuretic and not making weight in the biggest fight of your career. Alves is good, don’t get me wrong, and he looked good in this fight, but he has a little bit more proving to do before he’s granted a shot at the title.

Brandon Vera needs to seriously consider light heavyweight.

Yes, it was a bad stoppage and Vera probably could have survived into the second round but he seriously needs to eat his pride and consider dropping down to a more natural weight class. He would automatically have some of the best Muay Thai and wrestling in the division and could be extremely cut at that weight. Vera was at a distinct weight disadvantage with Werdum in the mount and even thought Miragliotta’s stoppage was poor, there was nowhere for him to go. I know Vera wants both titles but at some point you have to man up and decide what’s best for your career and I think light heavyweight is where Brandon Vera belongs and can do the most damage.

Mike Swick looked much more comfortable at 170 lbs.

Swick looked lackluster in his fight against Burkman and didn’t look too comfortable at 170 lbs. This time around, though, he looked like the weight cut didn’t affect him as much, he had a good gameplan, and he stopped an opponent that was on an absolute tear in the division. He had some good guard passes, a solid striking game, and used his reach and height to his advantage. While I don’t think Swick is ready to take on the top dogs in the division just yet, he certainly proved that 170 lbs. is really where he belongs right now in the UFC.

Michael Bisping at 185 lbs. is a dangerous man.

I know, I know. He’s only beat Charles McCarthy and Jason Day at the weight class but he has absolutely steamrolled them in devastating fashion. Day is a guy that the UFC thinks has a lot of potential and is an up and comer and Bisping put the serious work on him. I don’t think Bisping is a world beater at 185 lbs. and I certainly don’t think he could beat Anderson Silva on even his best day, but it’s clear that this weight class is where he belongs. Unlike Brandon Vera, Bisping has eaten his crow and moved down to a weight class that suits him better and it has paid dividends. I still would love to see Bisping vs. Leben as that would be a true test of Bisping’s will at 185 lbs.

Nate Marquardt got robbed.

The point deduction for the knee to Leites when he was down was clearly the right thing to do. The point deduction for the elbow, however, was complete B.S. and robbed Marquardt of a fight that he clearly won. Marquardt lost the first round but clearly won rounds two and three and the fight should at the very least have been a draw. This was the best fight on the entire card and it turned out to be a sham when Leites’ arm was raised. A rematch needs to happen. As a side note, Marquardt’s use of body shots was a solid gameplan. Body shots are so underutilized in MMA and they’re a devastating weapon so it’s nice to see some fighters starting to use them more.

Other musings..

  • Marquardt’s piledriver probably should have been another point deduction seeing as how spiking an opponent’s head into the ground is a clear violation of the rules.
  • Why in the hell would Eddie Sanchez decide to stand and trade with Antoni Hardonk? That is the worst gameplan ever. It’s been established by many people that the way you beat Hardonk is to put him on his back and pound him until the ref stops it. Sanchez deserves the beating he took if that was his gameplan.
  • Luiz Cane is a nice looking prospect and I’ve had a man-crush on him ever since it was announced that he’s coming to the UFC. He showed that he could defend a takedown and beat Lambert up on the feet. Solid, solid showing from Cane. It was a beatdown in the same vein as Houston Alexander vs. Keith Jardine. Lambert took his licks and kept getting up but wasn’t ever able to recover.
  • Kevin Burns submits Roan Carneiro? The sky is falling. Burns is a blue belt, Carneiro a black belt. Just goes to show that anything can happen in MMA. This had to be the most shocking result of the evening.
  • And in the same category of shockers, Matt Wiman knocks out Thiago Tavares. I did not see this one coming and thought Tavares would make quick work of Wiman. Tavares did his best Kendall Grove and Steve Nelmark impression against the cage. Wiman has clearly been working his ass off to make everything of his opportunities inside the Octagon and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him moved up to the main card the next time around.
  • Martin Kampann looked to have zero ring rust and made short work of Jorge Rivera. I’m glad to see Kampmann pick up a quick win because that means we can see more of him in a shorter period of time as I think he’s one of the best young middleweights that the UFC has to offer.
  • We’ve talked about undercard bouts being do-or-die fights to stay in the UFC and I think that we’ll see at least a couple of casualties from these results. Eddie Sanchez, Jess Liaudin, and possibly Jorge Rivera may have fought their last fight in the UFC.
  • The crowd was terrible. Any time the fight hit the ground they started booing and at points, paid no attention to what was going on inside the cage. The singing was cool the first time around in the U.K. but has become tired. Do the English do this at every sporting event? If so, I don’t want to go to English sporting events.
50 COMMENTS
  • MoreThanUFC says:

    Wow, an article I agree with 100%. ;) And you even used one of my lines. Where’s my royalty check? :)

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  • Evan says:

    “Is Matt Hughes done?”

    I don’t think so and I don’t think this is his last fight…Matt is only 34 and hasn’t suffered a lot of serious injuries. He has also taken very good care of himself. My guess is he fights Serra, retires…and comes back in a few years recharged.

    Agreed basically with everything else you said but this…

    “The singing was cool the first time around in the U.K. but has become tired. Do the English do this at every sporting event? If so, I don’t want to go to English sporting events.”

    Yes…Its a huge part of football across the pond and its an awesome aspect of any sporting event. It can really add to the drama. Much better than single drunken idiot shouting offensive words at a player…instead you get tens of thousands singing songs with offensive lyrics about a player in unison. Its very cool. :)

    Adam…if you ever got to see a huge football match in the UK I guarantee it would be one of the best sporting events you have ever been to.

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  • hindsightufuk says:

    yep in england fans sing like c*nts at every sporting event. didnt expect the mexican wave tho! thought the crowd was very subdued thru out, couldbe that so many paid a lot of money early to see what could have been an awesome main event and ended up being another lacklustre card.

    dont see how anyone could be too pissed at marquadt not winning, you said yourself he shoulda been deducted another point for the piledriver, dude should be fucking fined for that, instead he gets nothing except joe rogan getting all excited, fuck that. agree that he shoulda won without pulling off those stupid moves.

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  • bjjdenver says:

    I have a small problem with Alves getting a 50k bonus for KO of the night. If you don’t make weight, you should automatically forfeit the opportunity for bonuses. Screw it, give it to Wiman.

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  • Tommy says:

    How do you doubletalk like that? Nate got robbed, but ended the fight with a serious foul that should have cost a point if not the match? If anything Thales showed his tremendous heart. Took a huge illegal knee without complant then an illegal piledriver which the fans, even you ‘hardcore’ mma fans, seem to love. Guess the hell with it being dangerous to the fighters safety and the fact it could end an entire career in just one blow, if it looks cool.

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  • hindsightufuk says:

    ^^^^couldnt agree more

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  • hindsightufuk says:

    i didnt know alves got knockout of the night, so you dont have to actually knock someone out anymore? wiman shoulda got it

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  • bjjdenver says:

    #7

    Wiman and Tavares fight otn
    Kevin Burns sub otn
    Alves KO otn

    just fyi.

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  • steve24 says:

    Alves definitely deserves a title shot. He took out 2 top contenders in 2 months. Sure he missed weight, but he rolled his ankle. Anybody know what that looks or feels like?? All you guys are just pissed cuz your farmboy lost.

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  • Brandon Sanchez says:

    Good article. I thought from the replay I saw (Which wasn’t the best angle), that it didn’t look like a true piledriver, rather he spilled him down flat on his stomach. If anyone gets a good video of this, let me know.

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  • Brandon Sanchez says:

    Steve, are you kidding me? Jesus.

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  • Michaelthebox says:

    Eddie Sanchez ain’t going anywhere. He took this fight on a week’s notice and he’s still 3-2 in a division that needs every fighter it can get.

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  • steve24 says:

    Brandon, no I’m not kidding you. He deserves a shot! Hes got like 4-5 wins in a row, more than anybody anybody in that division. He’s exciting and he comes to fight. Next time you respond to a comment, feel free to go into a little more detail.

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  • bjjdenver says:

    Steve, I can’t stand Hughes, but I want Alves to show he can make 170 consistently before he gets a shot. he doesn’t have to fight a top 5 guy, but I want to see that weight.

    And I agree somewhat about the ankle, it has taken me 6 months to get to 100% after a high ankle sprain and strained achilles.

    I think you may be greatly overestimating the number of Hughes fans on here.

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  • steve24 says:

    bjjdenver: I understand people concerned about Alves making weight. Shit, when he tested positive that was like 2 years ago. He’s KO’d half his opponents since then and has Ko’d two top contenders. Who does he fight next? Kos if he wins? I think thats a fair match. But how could you argue Alves doesnt deserve a shot after his last two performances and say somebody else is in front of Alves. He probably still will have one more fight since the gsp vs fitch fight is a couple months away. But people saying no way he deserves a shot is a little ridiculous.

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  • bjjdenver says:

    I agree that it is a little ridiculous to say he no way deserves a shot. I just want to see him get in 1 more fight at the weight for his own good. I like Alves a lot and look forward to watching fight for a long time, but I don’t want him to hear about his weight every fight.

    Your right with the scheduling, he probably would have at least 1 more before a shot, so i hope he is healthy, gets in a full camp and keeps it going.

    It is just really bad when a fighter misses weight for a title shot, i.e. Lutter.

    As long as he keeps winning, the shot will come.

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  • Nick Merra says:

    I can say I totally agree with this article. Good print Morgan…

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  • Evan says:

    Michaelthebox…good point

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  • OCD says:

    Good article.

    I am a Hughes fan and I am not happy with Matt’s performances of late. It seems that since he left training seriously with Miletich, he hasn’t been forced to work on obvious weakpoints. I knew this was a bad match up going in for Matt.

    IMO the days of wrestlers dominating ala Tito, Hughes, etc…are over unless you have enough game to distract your opponent for a takedown.

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  • Demon6.0 says:

    “The crowd was terrible. Any time the fight hit the ground they started booing and at points, paid no attention to what was going on inside the cage. The singing was cool the first time around in the U.K. but has become tired. Do the English do this at every sporting event? If so, I don’t want to go to English sporting events.”

    HAHA! I was at the event, sitting floorside, and I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve been to three UFC events in the UK and this crowd was by far the worst. To give you an idea of the level of English pondscum attracted to tonight’s proceedings – a stone’s throw away from where we were sitting was a guy dressed in what appeared to be his grandfather’s wedding suit, wielding a cane, and wearing a fake diamond necklace complete with a weed-leaf insignia. That could all be put down to bad fashion sense, HOWEVER he also had on (I shit you not) a replica WWE title belt. He had taken a piece of paper, scribbled the UFC logo on it and taped it across the “title” face. I kept looking round to see whether this was some sort of candid camera stunt, but this buffoon was 100% serious.

    The presence of such an idiot shouldn’t have been a surprise however, given the level of intelligence on display at yesterday’s Fight Club Q&A. Chuck Liddell on more than one occassion actually had to say: “Sorry, I don’t understand your question.” People were asking him the sort of crap you’d have trouble imagining out of a five year old.

    As an aside, I met with and spoke to Dana White for about ten minutes this evening. He was a really nice guy; very friendly, cracked a few jokes, told us a little about the UFC’s international expansion plans (I had mentioned to him that the UFC would do well to look into expanding into South Africa). I was very pleasantly surprised.

    Great event all in all, but again – you are 100% correct. The majority of people there didn’t have more than ten braincells to share between the lot of them. Heaven only knows where they scraped together the money to pay for the tickets – which were not cheap at all.

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  • Denny says:

    Alves/Kos if Kos beats Lytle and Swick/Diego

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  • Evan says:

    Demon6.0…awesome post!!!!!!

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  • Brent says:

    Demon6.0 – thanks for the “on the scene” post.

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  • jaydog says:

    Ditto #21. Alves vs. Kos would be great. Talk about two strong dudes. Regardless, I still wanna see Diego vs. Kos.

    As for the Marq. robbery… It sounds like the guy lost the fight for himself by consistently bending the rules. Leave a fight up to the judges and there’s no telling what sort of criteria they’re going to use. If you’re going to cheat, make sure it results in a conclusive win.

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  • woooburn says:

    can we talking about bispings striking today? damn. he was on point. definitely agree that they need to put him in with leben next.

    and vera… the dude must feel jinxed. contract disputes, the broken hand, then this stoppage (not to mention those bunk a$$ shorts). he NEEDS to move to 205. if he wont, i gotta think they might even cut him. yeah, the division needs all the fighters they can get, but the dude is getting overpowered and straight up not winning. kinda feel like he’s always been overrated to be honest.

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  • Rich S. says:

    How about Chris Lytle beats Kos.. and then we see Lytle/Alves rematch..
    i do wanna see Kos/Diego II also though..

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  • DPK says:

    Alves v Kos to be #1 contender would be a good fight. If Alves had missed by a pound or less then there could be talk of it was a short notice fight, he’ll have no problem making it next time, but 4 pounds is alot of weight to miss by. He needs to make weight for at least one more fight.

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  • Kogepan says:

    snakebit cards ends awfully. Anything bad that could have happened did.

    I totally lost interest in the main event after Alves couldn’t make weight. WTF, is this guy auditioning for American Gladiators too?

    Who in the world is Jason Day, and why is he in the co-main event? The guy beats ONE Tuf fighter and he’s legit? For all the ‘depth’ that the UFC has, this was ajoke

    Vera looked out of shape, and got tooled. More shenianigans from Mirgliotta. Hahah, maybe EliteXC paid of Mirg to ruin the evening for the UFC!

    They should have just canceled this card after Liddell got injured, or postponed it. Complete waste of time.

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  • Brandon Sanchez says:

    Steve, #13, I definitely don’t mind going into detail. The only reason I even felt a need to respond to your original comment was because of the last sentence. I’m all for you being a fan of Alves and voicing your opinion that he is deserving at this point. There was just no need to put another fighter, and different people in the comments here, down, especially that hard. I don’t care to argue anyones opinions of Hughes OR Alves, I just thought the comment you made at the end was needless.

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  • pr0cs says:

    “How about Chris Lytle beats Kos.. and then we see Lytle/Alves rematch..”

    I can agree with this.

    Not a bad night of fights, enjoyed the in-cage mic.. seems like they amped up the audio in that regard.

    Glad to see the Wiman / Tavares and Rivera / Kampmann fights. I was worried the show would turn out to be cursed like the card was but seemed like it turned out decent. too bad my bankroll took a beating, I think I only got 3 fights right.

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  • MMAFan says:

    Regarding the controversy of an early stoppage in the Vera vs. Werdum fight, does anyone who attended the live event know whether or not Dan Mirgliotta gave Verdum a verbal warning to fight out of it before stopping the fight? It is impossible to tell from the video because of the noise level from the crowd’s cheering and the announcers’ commentary. It seems to me that such an outcome can be avoided in the future if in their post-fight meeting the referees mandate a verbal warning before deciding to stop a fight.

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  • MMAFan says:

    Regarding the controversy of an early stoppage in the Vera vs Werdum fight, does anyone who attended the live event know whether or not Dan Mirgliotta gave VERA a verbal warning to fight out of it before stopping the fight? It is impossible to tell from the video because of the noise level from the crowd’s cheering and the announcers’ commentary. It seems to me that such an outcome can be avoided in the future if in their post-fight meeting the referees mandate a verbal warning before deciding to stop a fight.

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  • paddiosf says:

    I can’t believe how Marquardt was robbed, what was that all about..he did have a couple points taken away but he clearly dominated that fight..And Vera wasn’t protecting himself but didn’t seem hurt..Vera isn’t going to last in the HW division, Verdum pushed him around with ease..

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  • paddiosf says:

    Oh by the way, #20 Super good post…

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  • Sensei John Creese says:

    lol.

    Marquardt deserved to have a point taken away for the piledriver, but didn’t for the elbows to the back of the head. Logically that means that you agree with the final scoring, just not the specific deductions. Marquardt broke so many rules it was ridiculous in that fight and for him to say anything other than “I’m sorry that I blatantly and intentionally kneed you full in the face when you were very clearly in a downed position, and therefore not expected to defend against that maneuver, and hope that I can do better in my next matchup” was just sad. “Man up”, as you would say, and acknowledge that you were scummy in that fight, Nate.

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  • mike wolfe says:

    After the officiating debacle at Elite, the story of the evening has to be the referees’ performances. The Vera stoppage is very hard to defend, especially so close to the end of the round. Herb Dean’s penalty for the non-existent strike to the back of the head smelled like an attempt to “even things up” for Lietes after the illegal knee, which was already penalized. It wasn’t the strongest UFC card, and officiating controversies were the last thing it needed, especially since UFC wants to distinguish itself from competitors like Elite.

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  • hankd says:

    Marquardt deserved to lose…he fought dirty…

    Should’ve lost a point for trying to spike Leites on his head at the end of the 3rd…

    F Marquardt…

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  • MoreThanUFC says:

    Who cares, this card sucked. The Sengoku stream is bitching. Thanks Adam, I finally figured out WinAmp. :D

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  • Demon6.0 says:

    “…does anyone who attended the live event know whether or not Dan Mirgliotta gave Verdum a verbal warning to fight out of it before stopping the fight?”

    To be honest – no, I didn’t hear or see anything, and I had a really good vantage point from where I was sitting. However, from that same angle I actually not surprised when the fight was stopped because it basically appeared as though Brandon was just going to eat punches until the fight got called anyway. He was covering up, but I couldn’t see him do anything else whatsoever. I’m not defending Mirgliotta’s decision though, because when I saw the footage it did seem very premature. But as I said – from where I was sitting Vera looked done.

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  • Jeff C says:

    I agree with the article for the most part. I just don’t think Bisping is this unstoppable force at MW, let him beat two good opponents then we’ll talk. As far as Marquardt, he didn’t deserve to win that fight. If he wants to fight dirty than he’s in the wrong forum. Great heart displayed by Leites, he has more class than Nate dreams of having.

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  • Chris says:

    I have to agree with you about just about all these topics. I want Vera at HW but i also agree that he should suck it up and get down to LHW. And Marquardt’s fight i thought had a decent outcome. He had some dirty stuff in the fight and they were watching him completely close. And as for Thiago, i think he’s going to get the shot at the title anyways or have to fight the winner of another WW fight coming up, possibly a Koscheck before getting a title fight.

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  • king mah mah says:

    I do not agree with all these people defending the fact that alves didn’t make weight. He said he “sprained his ankle so he couldn’t run or anything.” Yeah ok, he can’t run but he can jump multiple feet into the air with flying knees?! The ankle didn’t seem to bother him much in the fight. Sure he had it wrapped, but couldn’t he have wrapped it to run as well? Then Dana gives him $50,000 for the TKO? What a joke. He should give Hughes half just for taking the fight to begin with.

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  • truth says:

    Bisping is the English Kimbo, If yer training with the caliber of people he’s trained with, getting paid and promoted like crazy and Jason Day is who you’re matched against there’s something wrong with that. The UFC blowing the horn about how great he is, he needs to face more Rashad level and less McCarthy Sinosic and Day level people.

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  • Tommy says:

    Nate wasn’t dominating the fight till after the illegal knee. He turned the fight on that, and then didn’t even say he was sorry or apologize for the knee. Just to end the fight on a HUGE foul. He has no respect for fellow fighters & he deserved to lose, period,

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  • MoreThanUFC says:

    Nate said in the post fight presser that he was sure at the time that the knee was up. He took full responsibility for that. He did argue the elbow, which replay shows was definitely to the side of the head. The “foul” at the end was not an attempted head spike, but a powerbomb. Nate was a bit tired and Thales didnt land on the top of his head. If he did, he woulda been KOed and maimed. For a guy that almost all fellow fighters like, he sure is getting taken to task for this bout. We need to hear Thales side of the story to see what he thought.

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  • HexRei says:

    @#42 Ah yes, I’m sure without that extra four pounds Hughes would have totally dominated him lol. Those 4 pounds made all the difference!

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  • Rich says:

    Erm excuse me but the crowd, as a whole, wasn’t terrible. I was there and didn’t hear boos every time the fights went to the ground. It happened a bit more in the main card but even then they certainly didn’t come as quickly as they did at 75, which I was also at.

    There are dickheads at every event but fans appreciative of the groundwork shouldn’t be lumped in with drunken idiots.

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  • E says:

    good article

    Aside from occasional bouts of singing, this crowd boo’d grappling and they were very flat (especially coming off great crowds in the last vegas show and montreal)

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  • king mah mah says:

    HexRei, if four pounds didn’t make all the difference, how much would? 10lbs? 15lbs? 20lbs? They have weight classes for a reason. If you can’t make weight then move up in weight class.

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  • Mike Wolfe says:

    #42.

    Absofrigginlutely. Hughes pulled UFC’s chestnuts out of the fire by taking the fight as the main event, fights even though Alves is overweight, and then has his nose rubbed in it when Alves gets a bonus? Hopefully the org. pays the man for what he did, not the guy who jobbed him

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