UFC 86 Thoughts & Commentary
Forrest Griffin has validated The Ultimate Fighter television show.
Forrest Griffin, with his victory tonight, has validated The Ultimate Fighter television show by producing its first real champion. You can argue that Matt Serra is TUF’s first champion, but season four of the show was really an anomaly. The show has always been about bringing out the best up and coming fighters in their weight divisions and sending one lucky winner on to the UFC to pursue their dreams of becoming a UFC champion. Well tonight Forrest Griffin did just that. He’s come full circle, from winning the first ever UFC contract on the first season of TUF to becoming the UFC light heavyweight champion. It couldn’t have worked out better for Dana White and the UFC tonight. Their reality televisison show was validated and a true, homegrown star has been born.
Rampage deserves an immediate rematch.
I know there are plenty of contenders in the UFC for the new champion to face, but Rampage deserves an immediate rematch after the war that he went through tonight. That was one of the most thrilling title fights in a long time and both men deserve credit for saving what was an otherwise C-level pay-per-view. That being said, I think Rampage got the short end of the stick on at least one of the judges’ scorecards. 49-46 for Griffin is pushing it, only giving one round to Rampage when he clearly won at least two, if not three. The case can certainly be made that Jackson won the fight. The fight was as close as they come and with Forrest as the new champion and, let’s be honest, new figurehead of the UFC, a strong pay-per-view with Forrest vs. Rampage II is in order. There should be no filler fights for Jackson and no title defense for Griffin in between. These two men should face one another again as soon as possible so the UFC can capitalize on what just took place in the cage tonight. I’m willing to go so far as to call it one of the better UFC title fights in history right now and certainly will be in the mix for Fight of the Year come December.
Does anyone care to see Patrick Cote vs. Anderson Silva?
I know I don’t. Before the fight I would have rather seen Almeida win and take on Silva but after seeing his performance in the Octagon tonight I would rather see neither of these guys take on Silva. In fact, I think Silva could take on both Almeida and Cote at the same time and beat both of them. Cote vs. Silva does absolutely nothing for me and Cote will most likely get his head caved in, Rich Franklin-style. I’m not knocking Cote’s skills, he fought a technical fight against a tough fighter in Almeida, but he is no match for the current pound-for-pound king. In fact, I would much rather see Yushin Okami, someone with a sliver of a chance, fight Silva than Cote. Cote vs. Silva is one pay-per-view I won’t be buying.
Joe Stevenson was on his way to a loss.
Yes, Joe Stevenson pulled out the old guillotine choke again and won, but it was by the skin of his teeth that he did so. Gleison Tibau put up one hell of a fight and it’s amazing how huge he is for 155 lbs. He was well on his way to winning that fight before Joe Daddy pulled out his book of tricks and whipped out the faithful guillotine choke again. Props to Stevenson for hanging around and waiting for his opportunity but I think the moral winner of the fight was most definitely Tibau. He showed, once again, that 155 lbs. is where he belongs and that he can hang with some of the best guys there. Also, his omoplata attempt was about as close as anyone has ever gotten in the UFC to submitting someone with that move. Good fight all around.
Why all the Koscheck hate?
I don’t understand why everyone hates Josh Koscheck. Is it still leftover hate from when he was on TUF? He sure got a lot of boos tonight for someone who did his damndest to finish the fight. In my opinion, that fight should have been stopped long before it went to decision. When blood is starting to pool on the mat, I think it’s time to call it a night for the bleeding fighter. Lytle was a trendy upset pick before the event but after fiddling around on the feet for a bit, Kos went to his bread and butter, the wrestling and the ground and pound. He’s come a long way since his time on TUF. His hands are getting better, his wrestling has always been top level, and his ground and pound has become extremely vicious. Should Diego Sanchez get through Thiago Alves, I have a strong feeling that he and Koscheck are on course to settle their differences in a third and final fight.
Can Tyson Griffin finish?
This has to be the one remaining question in regards to Tyson Griffin. We know he can wrestle, we know he has good boxing, a good ground game, good submission defense. But can he finish? Will he ever finish a fight? I honestly think that’s what is holding him back from the elite level of lightweights in the UFC. He allows fighters who he is clearly better than to hang around and hang around until they can find an opportunity to hurt him or finish him themselves. It hasn’t come back to bite him in the ass just yet but he can’t let every fighter hang around because eventually one of them is going to teach him a lesson about not finishing.
Undercard Notes
- Melvin Guillard is back to dominating guys like Dennis Siver. Whoopty-doo. Welcome back to the UFC, Melvin. I hope you’ve matured.
- Corey Hill is the “next big thing” in the UFC? He’s certainly big, but let this guy get some wins under his belt before we start swinging from his testes.
- If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a million times before: Jorge Gurgel is a better coach than a fighter. He has a good thing going for him with his schools and his teaching and he needs to just keep it that way. God bless the guy for having heart and having exciting fights but he’s just not cut out for the big time.
- Gabriel Gonzaga did exactly what he was supposed to do tonight and that was submit Justin McCully. I’m glad it came by way of kimura because we haven’t seen too many kimura submissions lately in MMA. Way to bring sexy back, Gabe.
Adam Morgan is
| All posts by Adam Morgan
nice review. the immeidate re-match is not a bad idea, but i am not sure Rampage will be able to get right back in the cage. his knee may be pretty bad, and it depends on the medical suspensions. i think most importantly is no long layoff for either guy, let them get back in the cage and fight as soon as either can.
and as for Koscheck, he does catch a lot of flak. I think he’ll go the big Tim route though. It is “cool” to hate Kos now, but it will get overdone like it was for Big Tim, and people will feel bad for him (like i think some people will tonight) and get off his back.
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I love the idea of an immediate rematch, but I don’t see it happening.
As for Cote… I agree. Cote has won all of his past few fights, but who has he REALLY beaten? Kendall Grove and Jason Day are pretty hardcore (sarcasm) but I don’t think a string of wins against fighters of that calibur equals a title shot. Even if it does, I’d be much more inclined to see Franklin get demolished (for a third time) then Cote. If Almeida keeps up his one-dimension fighting (ie if I can’t take you down, I can’t do anything) style, he’ll have a one-way ticket out of the UFC.
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I’ve read a lot of sites claiming that a fix was in, and the Rampage was robbed. I can only offer this quote as a rebuttal
“I got my ass whipped”
—Quinton Jackson
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anyone who says it was fixed is an idiot. they act like the ufc scores these fights themselves.
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Rampage took it like a man. It’s one of the reasons I like him. That fight was so close that I’m expecting some major, major hype for the rematch. We won’t see Rampage v Griffin 2 for at least a year.
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I really didn’t think Griffin had a chance…but he won. He really did dominate\
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I’d like to see Rampage get a rematch just because I thought he won or at least managed a draw in that fight and it was so freakin’ awesome.
However if they were to do Rampage/Wanderlei and Forrest/Chuck I wouldn’t complain. Yes I am assuming Chuck will beat Rashad.
I like Cote. Will he beat Anderson Silva? No way in hell. Will it be exciting? Hell yes. I think the plan is for Silva to kill Irvin in July, then kill Okami two months later and then fight Cote. But yes, it would need a strong co-main event.
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It may not be fixed, but 2 judges scored the 1st round in favor of Forrest. Even this Idiot knows something is up.
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Oh yeah… I still can’t believe no one even called for a doctor in the Lytle fight. When blood splatters onto the camera lens, I expect the doctors and the ref to be swarming all over the place. Normally, everyone hates when they stop a fight from a simple cut that doesn’t hinder the fighter, but I was actually worried that Lytle was getting light-headed from donating so much blood to the canvas. I would have felt better if someone had at least checked him out.
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all the people who are saying rampage won should be arguing for a change in the scoring system rather than arguing the decision. clearly the more active fighter got the edge on the judges cards and i don’t think anyone can argue who was more active in this fight.
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A couple more points about tonight’s fights:
1. Really, what is Rampage supposed to say? If he was to say, “heck you know what, Forrest fought well, but in the end I think I should have got the close decision” then most would be calling him a cry baby the next day.
2. About the Stevenson vs. Tibau fight. Anyone find it just a little bit troubling that I guy could be walking into the ring looking like if he’s in the upper 160′s for a fight at 155. Aren’t the rules in place, to protect fighters from facing opponents who are out of their weight class.
3. One more point about the 10-8 round, that Joe Rogen pointed out, and that is, does complete dominance utter a 10-8, as compared to a complete utter dominance + an almost KO like in the Koshek fight. I believe the latter. Another good example would be the last round of the Penn-Sherk fight. That’s a 10-8. Simple dominance where a guy only suffers a knee injury does not garnish a 20-8.
4. As much as Forrest validates TUF, the time off taken for the show by the coaches takes away from the final result of their fight. I understand Rampage had an injury, but really he beat Chuck, then Henderson, and now he has to wait almost a whole year just to fight again. I think this is the first time a champion has gone into that show, only to lose their belt after the show’s competition. So I don’t think top fighters, who have already made a name for themselves, especially champs, would ever do that show again.
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Good points 5%
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RAMPAGE v WANDERLEI
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Hey in this article they said that Rampage only won 1 round
I’m pretty sure he won 2 ROUNDS, but Rampage got an 8-10 round
so:
10 + 8 + 10 + 9 + 9 = 46
which I can see why it would like Rampage only one 1 round
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sam, the points you brought up were on-point, these are the same things i been pondering since the card ended. I hope we get to see page/FG 2 on new years as well as diego/koz 3 on that card as well. and yes, cote did nothing to get me ampted for a showdown with the spider, the big dog just looked terrible. how did this guy ever beat nathan marquat? Drop Wandi down to 185 and put him in there with cote and lets see what happens.
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I agree about the rematch, but at the same time Wanderlei, Thiago, Lyoto, Anderson Silva, Chuck, Stephan Bonner or Shogun vs Forrest would be worth watching also. So I think an immediate rematch is unlikely.
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i don’t think Rampage should get an immediate rematch, given the number of top LHW in UFC.
1) Chuck never got a rematch even though he lost by a ‘flash’ KO early in the first round.
2) Rampage had 5 rounds to dominate Forrest and he couldn’t. Razor thin decision, now he needs to accept the result.
3) Forrest should get the winner of Chuck/Evans.
4) Rampage needs to another win to setup the next fight against the winner of Forrest vs Chuck/Evans
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I hate to bring up Kevin Ferguson v. Colossus Thompson…If that Koscheck bloodbath wasn’t worthy to call, then Elite XC should fold into UFC.
EliteXC is a soap opera joke. UFC will let you bleed a bit…for the sake of the fight.
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- I think Machida should get the next shot, but I’m pretty sure that won’t happen. A re-match would be the next best option, but I see Chuck(as long as he wins at 88) fighting Forrest for the title next. I’m pretty sure UFC will have Rampage fight either Wandy or Shogun.
- Forrest did validate the TUF format that takes very promising young fighters and gives them the opportunity to fight and train with the best, and be well enough off financially to focus on fighting full time.
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Rampage didn’t complain too much, and Forrest didn’t celebrate too much.
Both fighters knew how close it was,and acted professionally with the decision.
Looking forward to the rematch.
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It was a great fight but i would have rather seen them both at the top of their game. A 9 month lay-off is a travesty for two guys fighting for the belt. Rampage said himself that he never expected to feel this bad after this time and never wants to sit on the bench like that again.
Sort your act out UFC, you have the best stable, now use it.
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i love forrest but i was uncomfortable with his post fight speech. that is fine while they are on ppv but he’s going to have to clean it up some if they ever got on network television.
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this wasnt a flash knockout,this was a hard to call decision. i had it a draw.i just think there should be an immediate rematch because its warranted and two because it will draw a ton of buys. i love machida but that fight would be a promoters worst nightmare
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I am in complete agreement with every point that Adam Morgan made in this article.
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Validation – the TUF format was already validated when Kos fought GSP, Florian fought Penn, and so on…. they all got to the big show in 3 years or less… Hell, even Leben surprises us with his staying power… Griffin winning wasn’t needed to validate TUF, but it is great to see the cool dude win.
Immediate Rematch – No way!!!… Chuck didn’t get it after years of dominance. Let Rampage win at least one more fight, let’s get some more LHW action going, there’s so much talent in that division and we obviously need consistently stronger PPV’s.
Cote vs Silva – I agree, Cote bites! I hope Dana pits him against Wandy or Ace or anybody decent to knock him way down the ladder.
Joe Daddy – lucky bast*rd, but luck does not win fights, right??? So i gotta say, to Tibau…stupid bast*rd, you gotta KNOW that’s his signature move.
Kos – I really like Kos, and i know that puts me in the minority because he definitely was a jerk, and way more despised than CB ever was or will be… but he’s done a lot to retool his image and his game. Lets give him props.
Tyson G – who cares if he finishes… he is exciting, and he seems to be improving, so I am more than confident the finishes will come with time… like a baseball player who hits for average early in their career but then adds some power as they get older. TG is doin just fine by me.
…and finally, can people STOP saying that Forrest didn’t strike as well as Rampage!!! Rampage is probably gonna need friggin’ knee surgery and his knee and leg are far more messed up than Forrest’s face… and so correct me if i am wrong, but that damage was done by strikes, right? Forrest hit more often, hit with more pain infliction (knee vs. face), was better on the ground, made better submission attempts and was better conditioned at the end of the fight. He won!!!! Now go and debate something worth debating… like Affliction vs. UFC… Cheers Mates
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How can anyone think Cote will be destroyed by Anderson Silva? When has Cote ever really been rocked or in trouble on his feet? Will Silva try to pull guard standing up in the first minute of the fight? No way. Almeida had nothing but a desperate need to take the fight to the ground. Silva will stand and trade with Cote, and the fight will be way more entertaining than anyone gives it credit for. After all, not many people gave Forrest Griffin a chance of getting out of the third round, nevertheless winning the fight.
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Gonzaga’s sub was an americana, not a kimura. Everyone seems to have missed the obvious.
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yo are we all nuts in this fuckin place or what. why is everyone up for giving chuck and wandelei shots right away. Dont get me wrong i think both are great fighters but the UFC is the only company where you can lose 2 fights then win 1 fight and be considered a title contender. serious win a few in a row. GEORGE ST. PIERRE THE SHIT OUTTA EVERYONE, HE FOUGHT MAD DUDES TO BE CONSIDERED #1. COME ON!!!
The ufc needs to set standards for who should be considered #1 in to be facing champs. I even believe forrest griffin wasnt to sure he shoulda been put as #1 contender but his victory over the #1 light heavyweight made sense to be number 1. Thats the only thing i ever learned from the ufc. they believe if they put in a ringer or some guy they think will lose to some new upcoming champ that an upset is impossible. for example vitor belfort vs. randy couture, what the hell they even said he was brought in to lose, the same for gonzaga vs. mirko crocop, where gonzaga knocked him out, and then the fight for #1 contender. i just wanna see some standards set, griffin is the southern belle of underdogs, i love the fuckin screwball, but after his well derserved rematch to prove his the champ against Rampage, or rampage’s return to being champ. SET SOME FUCKIN STANDARDS ON THE #1 POSITION SPOT. PLEASE MAKE THE FIGHTS MORE WORTHY TO WATCH, NEVER AGAIN WILL I WATCH A FUCKIN GONZAGA/COUTURE RAPE OF HOW GOOD A MAN CAN BE EATEN IN A FIGHT.
Chuck liddel should first have a rematch against the return of the true rapist/axe murder wandelei silva then they should face all the great light heavyweight contenders before i hear some quack quack bout them getting title shots.
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Cote gets no respect.
He beats a third degree black belt in BJJ under Renzo Gracie and this is what happens. Get a clue people.
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#17
About Chuck: You do realize it was the second time he got his ass whopped by Rampage Jackson right? That could be why he didn’t get a rematch. There’s no reason to put a guy who’s already gotten beat by the champ TWICE by KO back in there.
No one wants to see Silva vs Franklin III for the same reason.
Rampage vs Griffin was not a solid win for Griffin, It was a win none the less. But it was in no way total domination like some of the refs seems to see it and it wasn’t total domination like Silva vs Franklin or Jackson vs Lidell.
And why should Lidell get the next title shot if he beats Rashad? He lost to Keith Jardine for christ sake.
If there’s one guy who deserves the title shot (except Rampage) it’s Lyoto Machida. But that main event just screams “No buys”
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I guess after ranting so much last night I outta write one more post just to wrap everything up:
Someone a long time ago told me when I was really mad at the UFC, that this is “prize” fighting and to expect craziness like Chuck Liddell getting another shot at Rampage, or a title fight later in the future after just losing to Jardine.
So last night when Forrest won, that’s exactly what I said to myself. This is prize fighting and expect refs to royally f up. But at the same time expect a rematch which probably will happen.
So for all the conspiracy talk……simply put its just prize fighting (expect it). This type of talk is a pain in the ass to most of us who’s been following the sport for a long time, and also invalidates a lot of the work that guys on this site and many others do.
Really, there is only ONE TIME I’ve ever seen fight rigging in the UFC, and you can See Matt Hamill vs. Michael Bisping in England, I think last year. Simply put, Michael Bisping should not be fighting every fight in England. What next, Silva vs. Bisping in Wimbley Stadium.
Lastly, I’m black and the whole white vs. black, talk is just stupid right now. If anything Rampage is the more and if not the most marketable fighter in UFC history. Great in interviews, great personality, & one scary ass dude when walking to and in the ring. I give forrest so much credit last night for even stepping into the ring, unlike Chuck who probably as soon as he saw Rampage started to piss himself.
If you can add anger, charisma, and everything else to Forrest, you’ll have Rampage. But you can’t, and instead we have an unmarketable champion, leaving only one thing……….a rematch. Hey its prize fighting.
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Congrats to Forrest in winning the title. It was very hard for me to choose who i wanted to win but i am happy for forrest. I feel he deserved the win because he wanted it a little more than Rampage last night. I am looking forward to the rematch but I would love to see Forrest v Liddell…what a fight that would be! I think if Liddell beats Rashad then he will get a fight with Forrest and Ramage will get his shot with the winner of that fight. Comments anyone?
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Nix the “testes” talk. This ain’t Sherdog. Being biased in favor fighter is part of being a fan and it doesn’t imply not homosexuality. I expect a bit more maturity from you, Adam.
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Jay,
It was a joke, dude. Don’t take everything so seriously.
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I only wish I took it seriously enough to check my grammar. Nonetheless, I’ve never understood why genital-talk that seems to erupt from male fight fans like touretts syndrome.
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#35,
I can’t help it but that sounds hilarious coming from a guy who uses words like “nix “.
I apologize in advance.
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Have they ever had an immediate rematch in the UFC?
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Regardless of who Forrest fights next, the UFC really needs to put Rampage/Wanderlei together. After Wandy messed Jardine up bad, and he deserves to get another shot at Quinton. Then maybe the winner gets a shot at Forrest.
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At this point, I think there are a ton of great match-ups in the LHW division. Griffin has about a half dozen contenders coming after him now. Excluding Machida and his “lull them to sleep” fighting, I want to see everybody fight everybody (title or no). And now that Anderson Silva and Rich Franklin are moving up, it just gets more interesting.
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I thought that you had to dominate the champion to win a unanimous decision. I really believe Quinton did not fight to the best of his abilities. Whether Dana and company paid Rampage, or that Dana and company forced a 9 month layoff they dictated the outcome of that fight.I feel the UFC feels that it needs white champions to market, to be successful. I am black, and been a fan since UFC 1. Rampage is very marketable, but they didnt market him like they marketed Chuck. Take a chance on the brothers, Dana and company, we got money for paid per-view too. One more thing, is Anderson Silvia chasing Rich Franklin? Rich you are one of my favorite fighters, but run back to 185.
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