Comments on: Random Ranting: How to fix the judging and rule making process in MMA http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/ Your Destination for Insider MMA News and Opinion Sat, 26 May 2012 12:13:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: OZON3 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-38288 OZON3 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:32:27 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-38288 i think #34 Erik is thinking along the same lines as me. My system is a little more detailed which allows a fighter to win a dominant round, for example, with a score of 8-3 but does not completely prevent his opponent from coming back to win rounds 2 and 3 by using a versatile MMA game to score points in any of the 5 categories defined. Obviously this system is a disadvantage to one dimensional fighters like strikers who only want to stand and bang or bjj who want to take it to the ground. But this system is not meant to favor one particular style of fighting.... this is MMA. A striker is going for the knockout. If he doesn't get the KO and it goes to the judges, he has no one to blame if he loses on points. Likewise, a wrestler laying and praying for 3 rounds may not score enough points to justify winning the decision. Maybe we'll see more ties. Maybe fighters will be more aggressive and try to finish the fights. Maybe we'll see a quicker evolution of the quintessential mixed martial artist who is strong in all categories of the game... like a GSP but more fighters like him. i think #34 Erik is thinking along the same lines as me.

My system is a little more detailed which allows a fighter to win a dominant round, for example, with a score of 8-3 but does not completely prevent his opponent from coming back to win rounds 2 and 3 by using a versatile MMA game to score points in any of the 5 categories defined.

Obviously this system is a disadvantage to one dimensional fighters like strikers who only want to stand and bang or bjj who want to take it to the ground. But this system is not meant to favor one particular style of fighting…. this is MMA. A striker is going for the knockout. If he doesn’t get the KO and it goes to the judges, he has no one to blame if he loses on points. Likewise, a wrestler laying and praying for 3 rounds may not score enough points to justify winning the decision.

Maybe we’ll see more ties. Maybe fighters will be more aggressive and try to finish the fights. Maybe we’ll see a quicker evolution of the quintessential mixed martial artist who is strong in all categories of the game… like a GSP but more fighters like him.

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]]> By: OZON3 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-38285 OZON3 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:07:58 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-38285 Sam - Good write up. I'm not bashing the 10-point must system but i do think i have a better system that is a compromise between point scoring and the 10-point MUST system. I call it the 10-Point MAX System. The 10-POINT MAX SYSTEM is broken down into 5 categories: 1. Striking (boxing/kickboxing/muay thai) 2. BJJ (submission attempts/submission defense) 3. Wrestling (takedowns/takedown defense) 4. Ground-and-Pound 5. Aggressiveness (willingness to engage to finish the fight) There is a MAXIMUM of 2 points that can be earned in each category. Judges can award point values of 0, 1, or 2 points in each category to each fighter. If a fighter completely dominates a round in every area of the fight (striking, bjj, wrestling, GnP, aggressiveness), he can be awarded 2 points in each category for a maximum of 10 points (5 x 2) for the round. If neither fighter attempts any takedowns in a round, the round may be scored 0-0 in the wrestling category. In addition, the Ground-and-Pound category would also be scored 0-0 if the fight never went to the ground. A fighter only earns points for techniques he uses during the fight. I can breakdown each category if anyone is interested and give you examples of when a particular category would be scored 2-0, 2-1, 1-1 etc. I even created a sample MMA score card using excel that i can send to you. Its difficult for a judge to keep track of all the different types of strikes and submission attempts and positions to accurately score a round using a true points system. However, i don't think my system is too difficult to implement during a live fight. Afterall, if you're an MMA judge, its YOUR JOB to understand these 5 basic categories and determine which fighter is winning in each area of the fight. In the end though, i think competent judges are required before a new system can be implemented. Sam -

Good write up. I’m not bashing the 10-point must system but i do think i have a better system that is a compromise between point scoring and the 10-point MUST system. I call it the 10-Point MAX System.

The 10-POINT MAX SYSTEM is broken down into 5 categories:

1. Striking (boxing/kickboxing/muay thai)
2. BJJ (submission attempts/submission defense)
3. Wrestling (takedowns/takedown defense)
4. Ground-and-Pound
5. Aggressiveness (willingness to engage to finish the fight)

There is a MAXIMUM of 2 points that can be earned in each category. Judges can award point values of 0, 1, or 2 points in each category to each fighter. If a fighter completely dominates a round in every area of the fight (striking, bjj, wrestling, GnP, aggressiveness), he can be awarded 2 points in each category for a maximum of 10 points (5 x 2) for the round. If neither fighter attempts any takedowns in a round, the round may be scored 0-0 in the wrestling category. In addition, the Ground-and-Pound category would also be scored 0-0 if the fight never went to the ground. A fighter only earns points for techniques he uses during the fight.

I can breakdown each category if anyone is interested and give you examples of when a particular category would be scored 2-0, 2-1, 1-1 etc. I even created a sample MMA score card using excel that i can send to you.

Its difficult for a judge to keep track of all the different types of strikes and submission attempts and positions to accurately score a round using a true points system. However, i don’t think my system is too difficult to implement during a live fight. Afterall, if you’re an MMA judge, its YOUR JOB to understand these 5 basic categories and determine which fighter is winning in each area of the fight.

In the end though, i think competent judges are required before a new system can be implemented.

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]]> By: neijia http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-38024 neijia Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:44:04 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-38024 So basically: Points: 2 -Mount position 2 -Knee on stomach 2 -Sweeps (ends Guard or Half Guard) 2 -Takedown (ends Guard or Half Guard) 3 -Back mount with hooks 3 -Passing the guard 4 -Clean Sweep (ends passed the guard) 4 -Clean Takedown (ends passed the guard) 4 - Clean Knockdown from strike regardless of guard 6 - high altitude, explosive or devastating throw. Rounds and Bout: # At the end of each round, each judge will write the TOTAL amount of points for each fighter on their score card. Although the WINNER will only receive "1" point on the MASTER SCORE SHEET kept by the Chief Ringside Scorekeepers, it is good for review purposes to know the total points each judge scored the bout as. # At the end of each round, the Chief Ringside Scorekeepers will only give "1" point to the WINNING fighter who is the fighter with the most points in the round. The losing fighter will receive "0" points. # At the end of the bout, unless the bout was stopped prior to the end of the scheduled rounds (KO, TKO DQ etc.) the fighter with the most rounds WON will win the bout. So basically:
Points:
2 -Mount position
2 -Knee on stomach
2 -Sweeps (ends Guard or Half Guard)
2 -Takedown (ends Guard or Half Guard)
3 -Back mount with hooks
3 -Passing the guard
4 -Clean Sweep (ends passed the guard)
4 -Clean Takedown (ends passed the guard)
4 – Clean Knockdown from strike regardless of guard
6 – high altitude, explosive or devastating throw.

Rounds and Bout:
# At the end of each round, each judge will write the TOTAL amount of points for each fighter on their score card. Although the WINNER will only receive “1″ point on the MASTER SCORE SHEET kept by the Chief Ringside Scorekeepers, it is good for review purposes to know the total points each judge scored the bout as.
# At the end of each round, the Chief Ringside Scorekeepers will only give “1″ point to the WINNING fighter who is the fighter with the most points in the round. The losing fighter will receive “0″ points.
# At the end of the bout, unless the bout was stopped prior to the end of the scheduled rounds (KO, TKO DQ etc.) the fighter with the most rounds WON will win the bout.

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]]> By: neijia http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-38022 neijia Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:35:10 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-38022 I miss the Pride yellow card as well. Good disincentive for stalling tactics. Docks your pay immediately. Definitely a keeper. Another idea: I would like to see some combination of Abu Dhabi submission wrestling rules mixed with IKF San Shou format rules, minus the 8 count. I like the 5 second clinch break up rule and the high altitude rule. In current mma, good throws are de-emphasized with the bjj and sub grappling rule bias for any kind of takedown. Pick-ups and slams like Rampage did to Griffin should also count for A LOT more than some stupid leg kicks, even a good one. Ok, yeah, it's a little pro-wrestling ish. Not sure what the exact points would have to be. Probably double the stand-up points and keep the ADCC points as is. Otherwise, we'll just be seeing sub grappling and not exciting mma with more exciting stand-up. Also, I like their 1-0 scoring for rounds. Fighters who win the most rounds win the bout. None of this stupid 10-9, 10-8, 10-7 shit. I miss the Pride yellow card as well. Good disincentive for stalling tactics. Docks your pay immediately. Definitely a keeper.

Another idea: I would like to see some combination of Abu Dhabi submission wrestling rules mixed with IKF San Shou format rules, minus the 8 count. I like the 5 second clinch break up rule and the high altitude rule. In current mma, good throws are de-emphasized with the bjj and sub grappling rule bias for any kind of takedown. Pick-ups and slams like Rampage did to Griffin should also count for A LOT more than some stupid leg kicks, even a good one. Ok, yeah, it’s a little pro-wrestling ish.

Not sure what the exact points would have to be. Probably double the stand-up points and keep the ADCC points as is. Otherwise, we’ll just be seeing sub grappling and not exciting mma with more exciting stand-up.

Also, I like their 1-0 scoring for rounds. Fighters who win the most rounds win the bout. None of this stupid 10-9, 10-8, 10-7 shit.

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]]> By: king mah mah http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37981 king mah mah Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:46:01 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37981 @34, I think you have a pretty good idea there. But they could do the same thing right now with the ten point system, if they would just utilize all ten points like I was saying before. @34, I think you have a pretty good idea there. But they could do the same thing right now with the ten point system, if they would just utilize all ten points like I was saying before.

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]]> By: Echolocating http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37947 Echolocating Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:17:05 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37947 Also, the reason why the 10-point-must system works for boxing as it current works is because of the larger number of rounds. With fewer rounds, you logically need a more diverse scoring system... like the half-point system. ;-) Also, the reason why the 10-point-must system works for boxing as it current works is because of the larger number of rounds. With fewer rounds, you logically need a more diverse scoring system… like the half-point system. ;-)

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]]> By: Echolocating http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37945 Echolocating Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:12:43 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37945 Again, I think a lot of people are just proposing new ways to describe the half-point system. It's clearly better to have a greater range to score a round so that extremely close rounds don't carry as much weight as decisive rounds do. If you want MMA judging to adopt a better scoring system, don't rock the boat too much by offering a completely new methodology. It's better to slip in a minor change (half-point system) with maximum impact rather than a drastic change that achieves the same result. The half-point system is the easiest and most effective way to move forward on changing the standard for scoring MMA. Again, I think a lot of people are just proposing new ways to describe the half-point system. It’s clearly better to have a greater range to score a round so that extremely close rounds don’t carry as much weight as decisive rounds do.

If you want MMA judging to adopt a better scoring system, don’t rock the boat too much by offering a completely new methodology. It’s better to slip in a minor change (half-point system) with maximum impact rather than a drastic change that achieves the same result. The half-point system is the easiest and most effective way to move forward on changing the standard for scoring MMA.

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]]> By: David http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37941 David Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:03:09 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37941 Isn't this the type of thing Marc Ratner should be taking care of. He was brought in for legitamacy but has been notably absent from everything for over a year. Isn’t this the type of thing Marc Ratner should be taking care of. He was brought in for legitamacy but has been notably absent from everything for over a year.

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]]> By: Erik http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37895 Erik Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:12:16 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37895 I think everyone everywhere seems a little too stuck inside the box when it comes to how to come up with new scoring procedures. Adapting the 10 point system, pushing buttons etc... Basically the way I see it, it's not really that fair to divide up winning a round in just 2 ways. 10-9 and 10-8. Having a bit more scale would be better as a fighter can really dominate or it can be really close, but due to the mental hurdle of the 10 point system I think you gotta go with something different. Here's just a suggestion to get people thinking: Alternative Scoring procedure: Each round is worth 5 points, to be divided among the fighters. This means you can totally dominate and win 5-0 (what would today be a clear cut 10-8), doing lots of damage. A clear domination, but with the opponent still doing some decent defense/damage avoidance could be 4-1 (I.e clear knockdowns, complete outwrestling etc), while a bit more give and take (both figheters slug it out, one winning 55-75% of the exchanges or so, but still round winner would get 3-2. In extreme cases where both fighters are exactly matched, The judge could have an opportunity to call it 2-2 (or 3-3) for the round (similar to 10-10 that does happen). I think everyone everywhere seems a little too stuck inside the box when it comes to how to come up with new scoring procedures. Adapting the 10 point system, pushing buttons etc…

Basically the way I see it, it’s not really that fair to divide up winning a round in just 2 ways. 10-9 and 10-8. Having a bit more scale would be better as a fighter can really dominate or it can be really close, but due to the mental hurdle of the 10 point system I think you gotta go with something different.

Here’s just a suggestion to get people thinking:

Alternative Scoring procedure:

Each round is worth 5 points, to be divided among the fighters. This means you can totally dominate and win 5-0 (what would today be a clear cut 10-8), doing lots of damage. A clear domination, but with the opponent still doing some decent defense/damage avoidance could be 4-1 (I.e clear knockdowns, complete outwrestling etc), while a bit more give and take (both figheters slug it out, one winning 55-75% of the exchanges or so, but still round winner would get 3-2.
In extreme cases where both fighters are exactly matched, The judge could have an opportunity to call it 2-2 (or 3-3) for the round (similar to 10-10 that does happen).

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]]> By: MarkEMark http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37886 MarkEMark Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:10:20 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37886 I think they should make the judges talk to the media about why/how they scored the fight. This would allow the public to understand why they scored rounds a certain way and would prevent them for blatantly scoring rounds blindly. I think they should make the judges talk to the media about why/how they scored the fight. This would allow the public to understand why they scored rounds a certain way and would prevent them for blatantly scoring rounds blindly.

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]]> By: Phil http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37865 Phil Tue, 08 Jul 2008 05:39:08 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37865 2 things. I like adding more rounds to fights. I don't think fights will become more boring with people trying to pace themselves to last 7 or 5 rounds. I think fighters will have more incentive to try and finish fights early because they're going to be exhausted at the end of the matches. One thing on scoring, I think all point deductions should be subject to replay review. It doesn't have to delay the fight or anything, just that when the ref stops the fights and announces a point deduction. Someone from the commission (not one of the judges) should start watching replays and determine if the foul actually occured. At the end of the round, they should announce to the fighters/judges/spectators whether the point deduction should happen. I know it doesn't really mesh with this post, but if they're going to change the scoring system, might as well fix everything. 2 things.

I like adding more rounds to fights. I don’t think fights will become more boring with people trying to pace themselves to last 7 or 5 rounds. I think fighters will have more incentive to try and finish fights early because they’re going to be exhausted at the end of the matches.

One thing on scoring, I think all point deductions should be subject to replay review. It doesn’t have to delay the fight or anything, just that when the ref stops the fights and announces a point deduction. Someone from the commission (not one of the judges) should start watching replays and determine if the foul actually occured. At the end of the round, they should announce to the fighters/judges/spectators whether the point deduction should happen. I know it doesn’t really mesh with this post, but if they’re going to change the scoring system, might as well fix everything.

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]]> By: Are you having a laugh?. http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37861 Are you having a laugh?. Tue, 08 Jul 2008 05:11:46 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37861 Thats a good point King mah about not utilizing all 10 points, you're right at the moment its just 3 points in MMA...weird?. It must be the points deduction or knock down thing, I think in boxing (and perhaps now in MMA) a knock down or standing 8 count is a point so if a fighter gets knocked down 3 times and obviously loses the rd 10 -8 it would be 10-5, so in your scenario; "If they are losing the round for 4mins and then knock the other guy down but don’t finish him, how did they win the round when they were dominated for 80% of that round?" it should be a drawn 9-9 rd with the knock down. And yeah that was definatly a 10-8 for Forrest and I think he took 5 but the other 3 rds (in my opinion) were up for debate. Thats a good point King mah about not utilizing all 10 points, you’re right at the moment its just 3 points in MMA…weird?. It must be the points deduction or knock down thing, I think in boxing (and perhaps now in MMA) a knock down or standing 8 count is a point so if a fighter gets knocked down 3 times and obviously loses the rd 10 -8 it would be 10-5, so in your scenario;
“If they are losing the round for 4mins and then knock the other guy down but don’t finish him, how did they win the round when they were dominated for 80% of that round?”
it should be a drawn 9-9 rd with the knock down.
And yeah that was definatly a 10-8 for Forrest and I think he took 5 but the other 3 rds (in my opinion) were up for debate.

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]]> By: Suqleg http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37860 Suqleg Tue, 08 Jul 2008 05:08:23 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37860 I like the article man good stuff and eventualy needed. I also think upping the total Judge count to 5 would help. better chance of them getting it right maybe even finding a way to eliminate 2 cards like they do for some olympic sports... I like the article man good stuff and eventualy needed. I also think upping the total Judge count to 5 would help. better chance of them getting it right maybe even finding a way to eliminate 2 cards like they do for some olympic sports…

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]]> By: Kuch http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37857 Kuch Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:54:04 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37857 Unfortunately, there’s no way to fix this. Changing the number of rounds, having oversight committees, reviewing decisions, using monitors; it’s all nice but it won’t fix anything. The folks judging these fights are people, just like everyone posting on this site. There isn’t a metric for how many points a jab is considered versus a right cross or knock down, and honestly, I don’t think there should be. The process in place right now might now be perfect, but it’s the best there is. Besides, all fighters know that if they want to make sure they win the fight they have to take the judges out of the equation and finish their opponent. Unfortunately, there’s no way to fix this. Changing the number of rounds, having oversight committees, reviewing decisions, using monitors; it’s all nice but it won’t fix anything.

The folks judging these fights are people, just like everyone posting on this site. There isn’t a metric for how many points a jab is considered versus a right cross or knock down, and honestly, I don’t think there should be. The process in place right now might now be perfect, but it’s the best there is.

Besides, all fighters know that if they want to make sure they win the fight they have to take the judges out of the equation and finish their opponent.

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]]> By: THORAZINE http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37855 THORAZINE Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:27:34 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37855 On "FIGHT METRICS" they have the JACKSON VS FORREST fight scored at 47-47, Forrest definitely had more punches and kicks but Jackson had more power punches and accuracy. I now can see how many believe Forrest outright won. On “FIGHT METRICS” they have the JACKSON VS FORREST fight scored at
47-47, Forrest definitely had more punches and kicks but Jackson had more power punches and accuracy. I now can see how many believe Forrest outright won.

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]]> By: Matteo http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37850 Matteo Tue, 08 Jul 2008 03:49:17 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37850 Good Article. I think the 10 point must system has done just as well as any other scoring system. It seems right now a lot of the MMA judges seem to be defunct boxing judges.. There should be a test where a potential judge is shown different fights and score the fights and then justify their reasonings. The 2nd Rounds of the Jackson/Griffin fight and the Lytle/Koscheck are perfect comparisons to argue a 10-8. I felt as if Griffin desreved a 10-8 round for completely nullifying anything Jackson had to offer but in return he also did little damage.. But in comparison to the Koscheck/Lytle 2nd Round, which was also a 10-8 round, Koscheck really teed off on Lytle cutting him badly and almost causing a stoppage. SO what is a 10-8 round? I scored the Rampage/Forrest fight a draw as Rampage took 3/5 Rounds and Forrest won 2/5 Rounds with a 10-8 round resulting in a 48/48 Draw. Good Article.

I think the 10 point must system has done just as well as any other scoring system. It seems right now a lot of the MMA judges seem to be defunct boxing judges..
There should be a test where a potential judge is shown different fights and score the fights and then justify their reasonings.

The 2nd Rounds of the Jackson/Griffin fight and the Lytle/Koscheck are perfect comparisons to argue a 10-8. I felt as if Griffin desreved a 10-8 round for completely nullifying anything Jackson had to offer but in return he also did little damage.. But in comparison to the Koscheck/Lytle 2nd Round, which was also a 10-8 round, Koscheck really teed off on Lytle cutting him badly and almost causing a stoppage. SO what is a 10-8 round?

I scored the Rampage/Forrest fight a draw as Rampage took 3/5 Rounds and Forrest won 2/5 Rounds with a 10-8 round resulting in a 48/48 Draw.

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]]> By: Echolocating http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37849 Echolocating Tue, 08 Jul 2008 03:14:32 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37849 Jeremy (#25), what you've described is the half-point system, but with whole numbers. 10 - 9.5, 9, 8.5, 8... the thing is that the judges come from boxing backgrounds and calling 10 - 7 rounds might scramble their little brains, but for some reason 10 - 8.5 isn't as confusing to them. Hey, Sam, (if you've got the time) humor us and watch the fight again and score it with the half-point system. I wonder what your final score would be then. Might be an interesting exercise... or it might be a waste of 25 minutes. ;-) Jeremy (#25), what you’ve described is the half-point system, but with whole numbers. 10 – 9.5, 9, 8.5, 8… the thing is that the judges come from boxing backgrounds and calling 10 – 7 rounds might scramble their little brains, but for some reason 10 – 8.5 isn’t as confusing to them.

Hey, Sam, (if you’ve got the time) humor us and watch the fight again and score it with the half-point system. I wonder what your final score would be then. Might be an interesting exercise… or it might be a waste of 25 minutes. ;-)

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]]> By: Jeremy http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37848 Jeremy Tue, 08 Jul 2008 02:58:52 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37848 My own personal thoughts on how to score using the ten point system are as follows: 10-9: a relatively close round with one doing more. 10-8: A round in which one fighter was clearly dominant. 10-7: One fighter dominates and injures his opponent and/or is very close to ending the fight. Perhaps a 10-6 being is a fighter is literally saved by the bell. There is no way a close round should be scored the same as a dominant one, yet many seem to feel that a 10-8 is only when a fighter does large amounts of damage. I think the 2nd round of Jackson/Griffin was an excellent example of what a 10-8 round should be. Should that have been given the same score as the fifth round? My own personal thoughts on how to score using the ten point system are as follows:
10-9: a relatively close round with one doing more.
10-8: A round in which one fighter was clearly dominant.
10-7: One fighter dominates and injures his opponent and/or is very close to ending the fight.
Perhaps a 10-6 being is a fighter is literally saved by the bell.

There is no way a close round should be scored the same as a dominant one, yet many seem to feel that a 10-8 is only when a fighter does large amounts of damage.

I think the 2nd round of Jackson/Griffin was an excellent example of what a 10-8 round should be. Should that have been given the same score as the fifth round?

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]]> By: king mah mah http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37847 king mah mah Tue, 08 Jul 2008 02:51:48 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37847 My gripe with ten point system is that it doesn't utilize ten points. How come there is never a 7-4 round or a 4-2 round? Also if the rounds are always limited to either 10,9, or 8 than why isn't it a three point must system? I am also confused about the people saying round 2 wasn't a 10-8 for griffin. If that round wasn't a 10-8 then what the hell is? Obviously they want a knockout before they ever score a 10-8. In my opinion you could score it a 10-7 seeing as how rampage didn't fight that round at all. But that's my point, they don't utilize 10 points. Why? Also how does the round immediately become one fighters if they knock the other guy down? If they are losing the round for 4mins and then knock the other guy down but don't finish him, how did they win the round when they were dominated for 80% of that round? It's all confusing to me, the point system worked in boxing but I think there are just too many variables in mma. My gripe with ten point system is that it doesn’t utilize ten points. How come there is never a 7-4 round or a 4-2 round? Also if the rounds are always limited to either 10,9, or 8 than why isn’t it a three point must system?

I am also confused about the people saying round 2 wasn’t a 10-8 for griffin. If that round wasn’t a 10-8 then what the hell is? Obviously they want a knockout before they ever score a 10-8. In my opinion you could score it a 10-7 seeing as how rampage didn’t fight that round at all. But that’s my point, they don’t utilize 10 points. Why?

Also how does the round immediately become one fighters if they knock the other guy down? If they are losing the round for 4mins and then knock the other guy down but don’t finish him, how did they win the round when they were dominated for 80% of that round?

It’s all confusing to me, the point system worked in boxing but I think there are just too many variables in mma.

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]]> By: Cathedron http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/comment-page-1/#comment-37846 Cathedron Tue, 08 Jul 2008 02:50:38 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/07/random-ranting-how-to-fix-the-judging-and-scoring-system-in-mma-along-with-process-of-r/#comment-37846 Good article. I've always said that the 10 point must system isn't the big problem, it's the judges who clearly don't understand MMA. That will change over time, but things are pretty bad right now. Too many fights go to the judges and the judges are often pretty stupid. I think adding extra rounds would be OK, but they might need to shorten the actual round length to 4 mins. I'm not sure how that would change things. I do know that 3 min rounds would just fuck up MMA to the point that it would be a completely different sport. It's one of the things I can't stand about amature and women's pro MMA. What about extending the lengths of the individual rounds? Six min rounds might do it. Let the fighters get a little more worn out with each round and we might see some finishes by the third round. Good article. I’ve always said that the 10 point must system isn’t the big problem, it’s the judges who clearly don’t understand MMA. That will change over time, but things are pretty bad right now. Too many fights go to the judges and the judges are often pretty stupid.

I think adding extra rounds would be OK, but they might need to shorten the actual round length to 4 mins. I’m not sure how that would change things. I do know that 3 min rounds would just fuck up MMA to the point that it would be a completely different sport. It’s one of the things I can’t stand about amature and women’s pro MMA. What about extending the lengths of the individual rounds? Six min rounds might do it. Let the fighters get a little more worn out with each round and we might see some finishes by the third round.

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