Comments on: Is Tito Ortiz worth Affliction’s money? http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/ Your Destination for Insider MMA News and Opinion Sat, 26 May 2012 12:13:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Paying for Tito Ortiz is like “buying a pair of expensive jeans and paying for a label.” :Five Ounces of Pain http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-45676 Paying for Tito Ortiz is like “buying a pair of expensive jeans and paying for a label.” :Five Ounces of Pain Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:01:09 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-45676 [...] too long ago I wrote a piece about Tito Ortiz and whether or not he was worth Affliction’s money. My feeling is that he’s not and while he is worth a good deal and big bucks, he’s not [...] [...] too long ago I wrote a piece about Tito Ortiz and whether or not he was worth Affliction’s money. My feeling is that he’s not and while he is worth a good deal and big bucks, he’s not [...]

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]]> By: Dr.Stoppage http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43456 Dr.Stoppage Fri, 08 Aug 2008 12:54:44 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43456 To elaborate,Tito had become a UFC gatekeeper. He don't know how to finish anymore,except when it comes to babymaking. BUT,apparently he's good in the business of marketing Tito. To elaborate,Tito had become a UFC gatekeeper.
He don’t know how to finish anymore,except when it comes to babymaking.
BUT,apparently he’s good in the business of marketing Tito.

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]]> By: Dr.Stoppage http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43455 Dr.Stoppage Fri, 08 Aug 2008 12:49:19 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43455 Good for Tito...bad for Affliction Good for Tito…bad for Affliction

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]]> By: dpk http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43443 dpk Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:09:04 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43443 "Is Tito Ortiz worth Affliction's Money"- In my opinion, no. Not if he is getting as much as he says he is in the SI article. Tito's best days are behind him, and the only guys he could fight to prove otherwise are in UFC. The only contract that would make sense to me is one heavy on shares of the PPVs, and I think Tito is over estimating his drawing power. I'm not paying $40 to see a guy who isn't even a top 10 LHW in matches that have no relevance in determining who the best person in the world at the weight class is. “Is Tito Ortiz worth Affliction’s Money”- In my opinion, no.

Not if he is getting as much as he says he is in the SI article. Tito’s best days are behind him, and the only guys he could fight to prove otherwise are in UFC. The only contract that would make sense to me is one heavy on shares of the PPVs, and I think Tito is over estimating his drawing power. I’m not paying $40 to see a guy who isn’t even a top 10 LHW in matches that have no relevance in determining who the best person in the world at the weight class is.

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]]> By: darkmetal http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43414 darkmetal Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:04:30 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43414 Is Tito worth the money? The question should be "Can Afflliction afford to pay Tito the money?" You can't leak thousand of dollars forever, and getting Tito is just attaining someone who will badmouth his every opponent, and then probably lose, or at best eek out a decision...unless...Affliction aquires Ken Shamrock that is. Ortiz is a sideshow fighter, someone who you watch because you want him to lose, who is long on wind and short of aquired skills. If Affliction wants to become as big as the UFC, they need to get fighters that are BETTER than the UFC, and so far that has been their plan. I don't see Tito in that scenario, and certainly not for the price that Tito is quoting. Is Tito worth the money? The question should be “Can Afflliction afford to pay Tito the money?” You can’t leak thousand of dollars forever, and getting Tito is just attaining someone who will badmouth his every opponent, and then probably lose, or at best eek out a decision…unless…Affliction aquires Ken Shamrock that is.

Ortiz is a sideshow fighter, someone who you watch because you want him to lose, who is long on wind and short of aquired skills. If Affliction wants to become as big as the UFC, they need to get fighters that are BETTER than the UFC, and so far that has been their plan. I don’t see Tito in that scenario, and certainly not for the price that Tito is quoting.

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]]> By: Bradster http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43405 Bradster Fri, 08 Aug 2008 01:42:42 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43405 Tito isn't worth more than Arlovski, Fedor, or Barnett. I think the continual degradation of AFFLICTION is just the result of all the Haterade everyone's been drinking. Look. . .Affliction is early in its infancy stage & hasn't even really been given a chance to develop, learn & grow. It's not the UFC & never will be the UFC, but we cannot continue to hate on Affliction just because of its roster. Give it time & more fighters will migrate over, the organization will be larger w/more asses in the seats & people @ hm purchasing PPVs. I think Affliction caters more so to the "harcore MMA fan" vs. the mainstreamer common day man/woman who doesn't know as much about the sport or its fighters & their specialties. Affliction has a great product & w/time will deliver even a better brand to the MMA fan. I'd rather have an organization that can cater to the hardcore fan so not every armchair MMA expert can run his mouth about the sport then they don't know shit about it. Hey Rome wasn't built in a day. . .so if Affliction wants to ink on Tito, that'll make for some entertainment seeing him get his ass kicked again & again by reall fighters who've evolved w/the sport. I say he jumps up to HW & fights my boy Arlovski. That'll be great boxing practice for Andrei. Sorry for the novella like reply! Tito isn’t worth more than Arlovski, Fedor, or Barnett. I think the continual degradation of AFFLICTION is just the result of all the Haterade everyone’s been drinking. Look. . .Affliction is early in its infancy stage & hasn’t even really been given a chance to develop, learn & grow. It’s not the UFC & never will be the UFC, but we cannot continue to hate on Affliction just because of its roster. Give it time & more fighters will migrate over, the organization will be larger w/more asses in the seats & people @ hm purchasing PPVs. I think Affliction caters more so to the “harcore MMA fan” vs. the mainstreamer common day man/woman who doesn’t know as much about the sport or its fighters & their specialties. Affliction has a great product & w/time will deliver even a better brand to the MMA fan. I’d rather have an organization that can cater to the hardcore fan so not every armchair MMA expert can run his mouth about the sport then they don’t know shit about it. Hey Rome wasn’t built in a day. . .so if Affliction wants to ink on Tito, that’ll make for some entertainment seeing him get his ass kicked again & again by reall fighters who’ve evolved w/the sport. I say he jumps up to HW & fights my boy Arlovski. That’ll be great boxing practice for Andrei. Sorry for the novella like reply!

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]]> By: Warcry http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43395 Warcry Fri, 08 Aug 2008 00:30:40 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43395 Not a big Tito guy. However you have to say he is worth more than they paid for Tim Sylvia and he is not on the level of Fedor. So his rate should be somewhere in between those two. Does he have a blind fanbase sure he does. They watch his biscuit-head everytime out. They also make excuses for why his is been getting his ass-kicked. That said the man has past glory he can still hang his hat on. Not a big Tito guy. However you have to say he is worth more than they paid for Tim Sylvia and he is not on the level of Fedor. So his rate should be somewhere in between those two. Does he have a blind fanbase sure he does. They watch his biscuit-head everytime out. They also make excuses for why his is been getting his ass-kicked. That said the man has past glory he can still hang his hat on.

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]]> By: Handover Fist http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43381 Handover Fist Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:41:53 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43381 Some people will always by the PPV to see certain fights fight because of their personas but I believe most fans want to see top 10 fighters square off against each other and the sport has passed Tito by in that regard. If you believe the majority of the fans are tuning in just to see theatrics then this is no more a sport then the TV wrestling stuff. Some people will always by the PPV to see certain fights fight because of their personas but I believe most fans want to see top 10 fighters square off against each other and the sport has passed Tito by in that regard. If you believe the majority of the fans are tuning in just to see theatrics then this is no more a sport then the TV wrestling stuff.

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]]> By: Imbecile http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43370 Imbecile Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:32:15 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43370 Just to add one more thing... I do wonder how Tito's loyal fanbase is still doing these days, given that it has become increasingly obvious that he isn't a top fighter any more. I imagine he still has plenty of fans, but that it has dwindled some. I guess we will find out when/if he is able to make Affliction a success. Just to add one more thing…

I do wonder how Tito’s loyal fanbase is still doing these days, given that it has become increasingly obvious that he isn’t a top fighter any more. I imagine he still has plenty of fans, but that it has dwindled some.

I guess we will find out when/if he is able to make Affliction a success.

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]]> By: Imbecile http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43369 Imbecile Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:29:10 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43369 It is hard to say accurately what Tito is worth. He probably isn't worth anywhere near what Affliction may pay him, but he is probably worth more than all of their other fighters combined. Affliction paid somewhere in the $1.5 million range for Fedor, $800K for Sylvia, $750,000K for Arlovski, $200,000K for Lindland, $200,000K for Rothwell, several hundred thousand for Barnett, etc. As much as I hate to say it, but Tito puts more asses in more seats and sells more PPV's than all of those guys combined. Does that mean Tito should get paid the combined amount of these fighters? Hardly. Affliction severely overpaid every single person on their card. I don't really like Tito, and I think it does say something about the sport that he is still one of the most marketable names out there. I don't like his fighting style, I don't think he is a top fighter anymore, and I really don't like his attitude. But Tito has a significant fanbase, he sells a fight well, and he brings along a more casual viewer. I remember going to his fight in Anaheim, and I was sitting in a crowd of about 30 fans that had driven up from Mexico just to see Tito. They knew nobody else on the card, but they LOVED Tito! That is how strong his fanbase is, and that type of loyal, casual fan is why he is a decent investment. Affliction has to be careful, though, because I think there is truth in Dana White's comment that Tito no longer wants to be a fighter. Tito may take one fight and then cut and run to his movie "career." But if Affliction continues to spend too much on all fighters, they may need be around past the one fight Tito has with them anyway. It is hard to say accurately what Tito is worth. He probably isn’t worth anywhere near what Affliction may pay him, but he is probably worth more than all of their other fighters combined.

Affliction paid somewhere in the $1.5 million range for Fedor, $800K for Sylvia, $750,000K for Arlovski, $200,000K for Lindland, $200,000K for Rothwell, several hundred thousand for Barnett, etc.

As much as I hate to say it, but Tito puts more asses in more seats and sells more PPV’s than all of those guys combined.

Does that mean Tito should get paid the combined amount of these fighters? Hardly. Affliction severely overpaid every single person on their card.

I don’t really like Tito, and I think it does say something about the sport that he is still one of the most marketable names out there. I don’t like his fighting style, I don’t think he is a top fighter anymore, and I really don’t like his attitude. But Tito has a significant fanbase, he sells a fight well, and he brings along a more casual viewer. I remember going to his fight in Anaheim, and I was sitting in a crowd of about 30 fans that had driven up from Mexico just to see Tito. They knew nobody else on the card, but they LOVED Tito! That is how strong his fanbase is, and that type of loyal, casual fan is why he is a decent investment.

Affliction has to be careful, though, because I think there is truth in Dana White’s comment that Tito no longer wants to be a fighter. Tito may take one fight and then cut and run to his movie “career.” But if Affliction continues to spend too much on all fighters, they may need be around past the one fight Tito has with them anyway.

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]]> By: Mikee http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43364 Mikee Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:16:27 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43364 Batman couldn't have said it better. Adam, I don't agree with your point of view whatsoever. Why do you label Tito as one dimensional? If he was one dimensional, he wouldn't have posessed the skills to pull off a very good submission attempt in his last fight. Wether he finished it or not, who almost didn't jump out of their chairs when he pulled that out of his ass?!? If he was one dimensional, he wouldn't have lasted 3.5 rounds with one of the greatest strikers in mma history. He wouldn't have held his own on his feet with Forrest. In both fights against Chuck and Forrest he delivered some good damage via strikes on his own. did you see Chuck's face after the fight? None of that was done on the ground buddy. So why is he one dimensional? Yes, his wrestling is his base, and his striking isn't spectacular, but all in all, it ain't that damn bad either. He looks more and more comfortable everytime he stands up with someone, and when he loosens up and isn't afraid to take a shot or two, often looks better than his opponent. Oh, and I think the last thing anyone has to debate or worry about is if Tito will continue to be a top draw. I'm no expert, but I can already answer that one. Batman couldn’t have said it better. Adam, I don’t agree with your point of view whatsoever. Why do you label Tito as one dimensional? If he was one dimensional, he wouldn’t have posessed the skills to pull off a very good submission attempt in his last fight. Wether he finished it or not, who almost didn’t jump out of their chairs when he pulled that out of his ass?!? If he was one dimensional, he wouldn’t have lasted 3.5 rounds with one of the greatest strikers in mma history. He wouldn’t have held his own on his feet with Forrest. In both fights against Chuck and Forrest he delivered some good damage via strikes on his own. did you see Chuck’s face after the fight? None of that was done on the ground buddy. So why is he one dimensional? Yes, his wrestling is his base, and his striking isn’t spectacular, but all in all, it ain’t that damn bad either. He looks more and more comfortable everytime he stands up with someone, and when he loosens up and isn’t afraid to take a shot or two, often looks better than his opponent. Oh, and I think the last thing anyone has to debate or worry about is if Tito will continue to be a top draw. I’m no expert, but I can already answer that one.

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]]> By: Batman http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43357 Batman Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:57:54 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43357 Tito gave forrest a beat down Chuck got tko'ed by rampage Forrest Griffin won rampage Chuck liddell got whooped on by kieth jardine, then wanderlei Silva almost murdered kieth jardine. In this sport even the superstars take losses. 3 losses in a row. Wanderlei Silva Record Loss 31-8-1 (1 NC) Chuck Liddell Decision (Unanimous) UFC 79: Nemesis 12/29/2007 3 5:00 Won Fight of the Night Honors Loss 31-7-1 (1 NC) Dan Henderson KO (Left Hook) PRIDE 33: The Second Coming 2/24/2007 3 2:08 Lost PRIDE Middleweight Championship Loss 31-6-1 (1 NC) Mirko Filipovic KO (Head Kick) PRIDE Final Conflict Absolute 9/10/2006 1 5:26 I guess wanderlei and chuck both suck according to your guys way of thinking. Tito gave forrest a beat down
Chuck got tko’ed by rampage
Forrest Griffin won rampage
Chuck liddell got whooped on by kieth jardine,
then wanderlei Silva almost murdered kieth jardine.

In this sport even the superstars take losses.

3 losses in a row.
Wanderlei Silva Record
Loss 31-8-1 (1 NC) Chuck Liddell Decision (Unanimous) UFC 79: Nemesis 12/29/2007 3 5:00 Won Fight of the Night Honors
Loss 31-7-1 (1 NC) Dan Henderson KO (Left Hook) PRIDE 33: The Second Coming 2/24/2007 3 2:08 Lost PRIDE Middleweight Championship
Loss 31-6-1 (1 NC) Mirko Filipovic KO (Head Kick) PRIDE Final Conflict Absolute 9/10/2006 1 5:26

I guess wanderlei and chuck both suck according to your guys way of thinking.

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]]> By: Kuch http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43348 Kuch Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:41:30 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43348 All of this discussion is meaningless if Affliction does the same poor job of advertising as they did for Banned. Tito won't draw a dime if no one knows he is there. All of this discussion is meaningless if Affliction does the same poor job of advertising as they did for Banned. Tito won’t draw a dime if no one knows he is there.

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]]> By: jdavis http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43346 jdavis Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:24:19 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43346 If Tim Sylvia is getting $800k then how is it going to take to get Tito? He's going to want a record breaking salary a PPV cut and by what he said to SI he apparently wants a executive job with the company too. Tito can really help Affliction get some quick attention from casual fans but they don't really have many people for him to fight and he is declining both as a fighter and a PPV draw. They would be better off just signing him for one fight at a time at this point, if he loses or doesn't draw like they need him too then they aren't on the hook of all this other stuff and it's not like he's going to ask for even more if he wins. If Tim Sylvia is getting $800k then how is it going to take to get Tito? He’s going to want a record breaking salary a PPV cut and by what he said to SI he apparently wants a executive job with the company too. Tito can really help Affliction get some quick attention from casual fans but they don’t really have many people for him to fight and he is declining both as a fighter and a PPV draw. They would be better off just signing him for one fight at a time at this point, if he loses or doesn’t draw like they need him too then they aren’t on the hook of all this other stuff and it’s not like he’s going to ask for even more if he wins.

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]]> By: Jesse http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43344 Jesse Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:10:43 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43344 tito is past his prime but so are a majority of the name fighters out there.. ( randy coutoure v fedor has got to be a joke, randy as much as i like him, won't last one round ) but he's a big name, he'll help them sell a bunch of tickets ppv buys, and he did beat forrest a couple years ago. he is a boring fighter though, i'd rather see him v shamrock, kimbo sort of fights then in a fight where his statagy and only way to win in to lay on top of the dude for 3 rounds tito is past his prime but so are a majority of the name fighters out there.. ( randy coutoure v fedor has got to be a joke, randy as much as i like him, won’t last one round )
but he’s a big name, he’ll help them sell a bunch of tickets ppv buys, and he did beat forrest a couple years ago.
he is a boring fighter though, i’d rather see him v shamrock, kimbo sort of fights then in a fight where his statagy and only way to win in to lay on top of the dude for 3 rounds

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]]> By: Skeet http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43343 Skeet Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:06:21 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43343 Tito is no dummy, he knows his game needs work and he seems to have the balls to enter any fight so I'm thinking he'll be just fine ant where he decides to go. Tito is no dummy, he knows his game needs work and he seems to have the balls to enter any fight so I’m thinking he’ll be just fine ant where he decides to go.

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]]> By: Barry http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43338 Barry Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:33:59 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43338 who's to say Tito would get a huge guaranteed salary, he may get a good salary and a ppv cut. So if his name can generate ppv attention he'd get a bigger check. Just look at the attention Brock Lesnar created, don't matter if he can fight or not. Affliction just needs attention to generate ticket and ppv buy. who’s to say Tito would get a huge guaranteed salary, he may get a good salary and a ppv cut. So if his name can generate ppv attention he’d get a bigger check. Just look at the attention Brock Lesnar created, don’t matter if he can fight or not. Affliction just needs attention to generate ticket and ppv buy.

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]]> By: Guy Gaduois http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43337 Guy Gaduois Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:33:16 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43337 Mike's point is valid - and proves that Tito could revitalize his fight game if he would. A case study is Randy Couture's revolutionizing his fight style and making great strides in fight preparation - looking for exploitable moments that highlight his own strengths. Moving up a weight class, turning himself into a cardio machine and being more 'wily' by frustrating his opponents are all aspects that Tito would do well to emulate. Maturity doesn't doom a fighter if his game matures - what that submission attempt may have accomplished in Tito's mind and his future fight construct could be far more profitable than the "almost" and 'coulda, shoulda, woulda' that it is today. Fighters often say that losing a fight is instrumental in shaping a future win, and the Machida fight could do that for Tito. Motive, means and opportunity. Everyone agrees he's got the opportunity. Mike’s point is valid – and proves that Tito could revitalize his fight game if he would. A case study is Randy Couture’s revolutionizing his fight style and making great strides in fight preparation – looking for exploitable moments that highlight his own strengths. Moving up a weight class, turning himself into a cardio machine and being more ‘wily’ by frustrating his opponents are all aspects that Tito would do well to emulate.

Maturity doesn’t doom a fighter if his game matures – what that submission attempt may have accomplished in Tito’s mind and his future fight construct could be far more profitable than the “almost” and ‘coulda, shoulda, woulda’ that it is today. Fighters often say that losing a fight is instrumental in shaping a future win, and the Machida fight could do that for Tito.

Motive, means and opportunity. Everyone agrees he’s got the opportunity.

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]]> By: Jeremy http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43336 Jeremy Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:16:50 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43336 The biggest question I have is this: Will Randy accept less than Tito? Will Fedor? I doubt it. If Tito's deal raises the bar, Affliction will find themselves forking out insane amounts of money if they want to make Randy/Fedor happen. The biggest question I have is this: Will Randy accept less than Tito? Will Fedor?

I doubt it. If Tito’s deal raises the bar, Affliction will find themselves forking out insane amounts of money if they want to make Randy/Fedor happen.

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]]> By: finkrod http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/07/is-tito-ortiz-worth-afflictions-money/comment-page-1/#comment-43334 finkrod Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:10:42 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5001#comment-43334 With how much they're paying Matt Linland, it's frightening to think how much Tito could end up making. Not that I'm saying Tito doesn't draw. But with the money Afflictions throwing around, Tito could end up being able to swim around in his earnings like Scrooge McDuck. With how much they’re paying Matt Linland, it’s frightening to think how much Tito could end up making. Not that I’m saying Tito doesn’t draw. But with the money Afflictions throwing around, Tito could end up being able to swim around in his earnings like Scrooge McDuck.

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