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	<title>Comments on: Can someone please offer a GOOD explanation as to why the Muhammad Ali Act should apply to MMA?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/24/can-someone-please-offer-a-good-explanation-as-to-why-the-muhammad-ali-act-should-apply-to-mma/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/24/can-someone-please-offer-a-good-explanation-as-to-why-the-muhammad-ali-act-should-apply-to-mma/</link>
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		<title>By: ACK!</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/24/can-someone-please-offer-a-good-explanation-as-to-why-the-muhammad-ali-act-should-apply-to-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-46147</link>
		<dc:creator>ACK!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5715#comment-46147</guid>
		<description>Great points all around, Sam.  Stuff like this is why you are one of the best MMA reporters on the net.  

Though I&#039;m personally disturbed that so many people support low wages for fighters.  This isn&#039;t about all fighters getting paid mega-bucks, rather I think all fans of the sport should support a pay scale that allows most fighters to make an honest living by focusing on their MMA career until they lack marketyability or simply can&#039;t compete.  There&#039;s absolutely nothing wrong with that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great points all around, Sam.  Stuff like this is why you are one of the best MMA reporters on the net.  </p>
<p>Though I&#8217;m personally disturbed that so many people support low wages for fighters.  This isn&#8217;t about all fighters getting paid mega-bucks, rather I think all fans of the sport should support a pay scale that allows most fighters to make an honest living by focusing on their MMA career until they lack marketyability or simply can&#8217;t compete.  There&#8217;s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-46147" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('46147', 'add', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-46147-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-46147" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('46147', 'subtract', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-46147-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: mmalogic</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/24/can-someone-please-offer-a-good-explanation-as-to-why-the-muhammad-ali-act-should-apply-to-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-46071</link>
		<dc:creator>mmalogic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5715#comment-46071</guid>
		<description>There should be a &quot;MMA Bloggers Act&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There should be a &#8220;MMA Bloggers Act&#8221;&#8230;
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-46071" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('46071', 'add', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-46071-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-46071" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('46071', 'subtract', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-46071-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: klown</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/24/can-someone-please-offer-a-good-explanation-as-to-why-the-muhammad-ali-act-should-apply-to-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-45969</link>
		<dc:creator>klown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5715#comment-45969</guid>
		<description>The question of fighter unionization is persistently framed as a moral issue, when in fact it&#039;s an issue of power. Employees who have the power to do so always fight for a better deal. If joining their efforts is in their interest and within their ability, they will do it. This process is called organizing. 

Organizing a union for MMA fighters will require an alliance between multiple forces, including regular athletes, celebrity athletes (Tito, Randy), experts (Big John), journalists/bloggers and fans. Their combined forces will be able to pressure promotions (primarily the UFC) to balance against the control promotions currently hold over fighters. Well-established fighters who can afford to must speak out on behalf of powerless fighters who are intimidated or contractually bound into silence by their employers. 

It&#039;s a waste of time to appeal to morality or reason to convince those who will oppose these efforts. The only thing to do is to build power by organizing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question of fighter unionization is persistently framed as a moral issue, when in fact it&#8217;s an issue of power. Employees who have the power to do so always fight for a better deal. If joining their efforts is in their interest and within their ability, they will do it. This process is called organizing. </p>
<p>Organizing a union for MMA fighters will require an alliance between multiple forces, including regular athletes, celebrity athletes (Tito, Randy), experts (Big John), journalists/bloggers and fans. Their combined forces will be able to pressure promotions (primarily the UFC) to balance against the control promotions currently hold over fighters. Well-established fighters who can afford to must speak out on behalf of powerless fighters who are intimidated or contractually bound into silence by their employers. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a waste of time to appeal to morality or reason to convince those who will oppose these efforts. The only thing to do is to build power by organizing.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-45969" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45969', 'add', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-45969-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-45969" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45969', 'subtract', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-45969-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: j.</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/24/can-someone-please-offer-a-good-explanation-as-to-why-the-muhammad-ali-act-should-apply-to-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-45954</link>
		<dc:creator>j.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5715#comment-45954</guid>
		<description>i&#039;m a construction worker (a concrete finisher) and i also destroy my body, the difference is not in the way fighters do and i&#039;ll have my job for years to come.  i can thank my union for that job security, the financial help with schooling, medical and retirement benefits; i will also admit there are many inherent things wrong with unions to.  i just think it&#039;s truly pathetic that at the end of the day i&#039;ll have made a hell of a lot more money in my life time then the majority of the athletes i&#039;ve been watching for the last 15 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;m a construction worker (a concrete finisher) and i also destroy my body, the difference is not in the way fighters do and i&#8217;ll have my job for years to come.  i can thank my union for that job security, the financial help with schooling, medical and retirement benefits; i will also admit there are many inherent things wrong with unions to.  i just think it&#8217;s truly pathetic that at the end of the day i&#8217;ll have made a hell of a lot more money in my life time then the majority of the athletes i&#8217;ve been watching for the last 15 years.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-45954" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45954', 'add', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-45954-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-45954" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45954', 'subtract', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-45954-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: b.w.</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/24/can-someone-please-offer-a-good-explanation-as-to-why-the-muhammad-ali-act-should-apply-to-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-45947</link>
		<dc:creator>b.w.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5715#comment-45947</guid>
		<description>SAM. you made a much better statement on your 2nd response than your first, but comparing the ufc or mma to the nfl, mlb, nba is not fair. those sports have been around for decades. boxing has been around for a century, while mma has only been around for 15 years and didnt even come into the publics eye until about 4 or 5 years ago. the ufc JUST started to make money on a bigger scale, so i say give them a little more time and maybee they will meet up to your standards. the payouts and bonuses have increased alot in the last few years. i can remember when the fight,  fighter, ko, and sub of the night was only a 10 or 15k bonus, now they are up to 60k. every time a disgruntled fighter talks about money and the ufc, they always bring up KIETH JARDINE and how he only made 10k for his fight with wandi and had to pay for his own hospital bills (b.s.), but anytime JARDINE is aske about the subject, he always says that the ufc takes good care of him wich means he is probably making alot of money off of performance bonuses. i doubt kieth is a puppet just like i doubt that the other 95% of the ufc&#039;s fighters who are happy with the ufc are not puppets to dana or zuffa. AFFLICTION is what has brought on all these money issues  by way OVERPAYING  what the fighters market is actually worth. i think affliction will be gone before the middle of next year and elitexc by the end of the year, so we&#039;ll see what the fighters and the fans have to say then. if the ufc signs a major network deal next year and is succsesfull, i can see champions and top fighters making millions or close to it and the up and comers making tens of thousands, but this is all just speculation on my part. honestly i want the fighters to make as much as possible as well cuz they do deserve it, but i dont want mma to end up being like boxing or having all the greed that the other sports have in them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SAM. you made a much better statement on your 2nd response than your first, but comparing the ufc or mma to the nfl, mlb, nba is not fair. those sports have been around for decades. boxing has been around for a century, while mma has only been around for 15 years and didnt even come into the publics eye until about 4 or 5 years ago. the ufc JUST started to make money on a bigger scale, so i say give them a little more time and maybee they will meet up to your standards. the payouts and bonuses have increased alot in the last few years. i can remember when the fight,  fighter, ko, and sub of the night was only a 10 or 15k bonus, now they are up to 60k. every time a disgruntled fighter talks about money and the ufc, they always bring up KIETH JARDINE and how he only made 10k for his fight with wandi and had to pay for his own hospital bills (b.s.), but anytime JARDINE is aske about the subject, he always says that the ufc takes good care of him wich means he is probably making alot of money off of performance bonuses. i doubt kieth is a puppet just like i doubt that the other 95% of the ufc&#8217;s fighters who are happy with the ufc are not puppets to dana or zuffa. AFFLICTION is what has brought on all these money issues  by way OVERPAYING  what the fighters market is actually worth. i think affliction will be gone before the middle of next year and elitexc by the end of the year, so we&#8217;ll see what the fighters and the fans have to say then. if the ufc signs a major network deal next year and is succsesfull, i can see champions and top fighters making millions or close to it and the up and comers making tens of thousands, but this is all just speculation on my part. honestly i want the fighters to make as much as possible as well cuz they do deserve it, but i dont want mma to end up being like boxing or having all the greed that the other sports have in them.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-45947" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45947', 'add', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-45947-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-45947" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45947', 'subtract', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-45947-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: GameCritics.com</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/24/can-someone-please-offer-a-good-explanation-as-to-why-the-muhammad-ali-act-should-apply-to-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-45913</link>
		<dc:creator>GameCritics.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5715#comment-45913</guid>
		<description>I applaud everyone here for making mostly informed and well-thought out points. I&#039;ve always thought that there was too much blind support for big fighter paydays without considering the implications of the longevity of the sport so i&#039;m glad there there&#039;s a healthy balance of opinions here.

Sam, you&#039;ve always done a good job as a reporter at examining both sides and keeping your own opinion close to the middle. I understand that given your wife&#039;s goal of fighting professionally, its now impossible for you to not lean more strongly towards one side.

I have no problems with fighter&#039;s unionizing. I just find it strange that fans think they need to be so vocal about it. Ultimately, its between the fighters and promotions. Why do fans need to represent fighters on the matter? Fighters should represent themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I applaud everyone here for making mostly informed and well-thought out points. I&#8217;ve always thought that there was too much blind support for big fighter paydays without considering the implications of the longevity of the sport so i&#8217;m glad there there&#8217;s a healthy balance of opinions here.</p>
<p>Sam, you&#8217;ve always done a good job as a reporter at examining both sides and keeping your own opinion close to the middle. I understand that given your wife&#8217;s goal of fighting professionally, its now impossible for you to not lean more strongly towards one side.</p>
<p>I have no problems with fighter&#8217;s unionizing. I just find it strange that fans think they need to be so vocal about it. Ultimately, its between the fighters and promotions. Why do fans need to represent fighters on the matter? Fighters should represent themselves.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-45913" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45913', 'add', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-45913-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-45913" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45913', 'subtract', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-45913-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: ihateemo</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/24/can-someone-please-offer-a-good-explanation-as-to-why-the-muhammad-ali-act-should-apply-to-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-45906</link>
		<dc:creator>ihateemo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5715#comment-45906</guid>
		<description>Nobody is saying that the *government* should be forcing the UFC to up its base salaries but if employees are organised and have collective bargaining power then I think you would not only see happier fighters making better salaries but a higher class of fighter would be joining the MMA ranks. 

I am pretty appalled at so-called MMA &quot;fans&quot; who are OK with fighters getting paid poorly. The people who are making comments like &quot;nobody is forcing them to fight&quot; are incredibly narrow-sighted and selfish. I&#039;m sure a lot of you have a good job, an air-conditioned office and a nice hi-def flat-screen TV to watch your pay-per-views and yet you begrudge men and women who are willing to sacrifice their health and physical well-being so you can rewind their knockouts and blood being spilled on your DVR with your drinking buddies. These so-called fans just hate to see others have a bigger payday, especially when it&#039;s a fighter they&#039;ve never heard of.

The UFC is like the Walmart of MMA - it&#039;s an omnipotent juggernaut with all the power, all the money and all the press. There&#039;s no &quot;market forces&quot; at work here, except for fighters like Chuck Liddell with name recognition who could command much bigger salaries elsewhere. But for the lesser known fighter? The UFC offers them opportunities no other promotion can, and the UFC knows it which is why it can get away with its negotiating tactics.

I agree with what Sam is saying 100% - just because a promotion can get away with shockingly low salaries for athletes on the lower rungs, why shouldn&#039;t the playing field be leveled? That&#039;s all unionisation is. You can joke about Commies and the Soviets all you like, but the bottom line is that MMA promotions need athletes and athletes need MMA promotions. Since the need for both is equal, why should there not be equal bargaining power at the negotiating table?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody is saying that the *government* should be forcing the UFC to up its base salaries but if employees are organised and have collective bargaining power then I think you would not only see happier fighters making better salaries but a higher class of fighter would be joining the MMA ranks. </p>
<p>I am pretty appalled at so-called MMA &#8220;fans&#8221; who are OK with fighters getting paid poorly. The people who are making comments like &#8220;nobody is forcing them to fight&#8221; are incredibly narrow-sighted and selfish. I&#8217;m sure a lot of you have a good job, an air-conditioned office and a nice hi-def flat-screen TV to watch your pay-per-views and yet you begrudge men and women who are willing to sacrifice their health and physical well-being so you can rewind their knockouts and blood being spilled on your DVR with your drinking buddies. These so-called fans just hate to see others have a bigger payday, especially when it&#8217;s a fighter they&#8217;ve never heard of.</p>
<p>The UFC is like the Walmart of MMA &#8211; it&#8217;s an omnipotent juggernaut with all the power, all the money and all the press. There&#8217;s no &#8220;market forces&#8221; at work here, except for fighters like Chuck Liddell with name recognition who could command much bigger salaries elsewhere. But for the lesser known fighter? The UFC offers them opportunities no other promotion can, and the UFC knows it which is why it can get away with its negotiating tactics.</p>
<p>I agree with what Sam is saying 100% &#8211; just because a promotion can get away with shockingly low salaries for athletes on the lower rungs, why shouldn&#8217;t the playing field be leveled? That&#8217;s all unionisation is. You can joke about Commies and the Soviets all you like, but the bottom line is that MMA promotions need athletes and athletes need MMA promotions. Since the need for both is equal, why should there not be equal bargaining power at the negotiating table?
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-45906" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45906', 'add', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-45906-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-45906" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45906', 'subtract', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-45906-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: Imbecile</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/24/can-someone-please-offer-a-good-explanation-as-to-why-the-muhammad-ali-act-should-apply-to-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-45905</link>
		<dc:creator>Imbecile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5715#comment-45905</guid>
		<description>Also...

The truth is, a fighter is NOT paid for the 9 - 12 months they spent training.  They are paid for the fight, and the fight alone.  The 9 - 12 months spent training are an investment made by the fighter that they may or may not recoup monetarily.

I don&#039;t remember anyone suggesting that these fighters fight for free for the good of the sport when Zuffa was putting in their investment of time and money, which at the time, was pretty uncertain whether or not they would recoup.  Nobody demanded Tito Ortiz cut his asking price in half when the Fertitta&#039;s were paying him out of their own pocket and losing millions on the shows he would headline.

I think the problem a lot of people have when talking about money in MMA is that they want to put the cart before the horse.  We all want this to be a mainstream sport so badly that we forget how young a sport it truly is.  Zuffa is still paying off debts, and has undertaken new debts that make that initial $40 million they lost seem insignificant.  They took out nearly $300 million in debts so that they could reinvest in the sport and their company to grow MMA even bigger.  That will take them years of profits to pay off, but nobody seems concerned about their finances.  

One day, when MMA is a mainstream sport, perhaps the stars will make tens of millions, and the average UFC fighter will make a good living.  But right now, our instant gratification society thinks those things should happen BEFORE the sport has proven to be a long-term money maker.  We are only 3 YEARS into the time when Zuffa has actually proven profitable.  Only three years!  And no other organization has yet done the same.

Maybe we would get better fighters if they paid more, but that doesn&#039;t matter yet if the sport isn&#039;t big enough to maintain those salaries.  This is a period of sacrifice for a lot of people - athletes, promoters, trainers, investors, etc. - and most probably won&#039;t be able to be successful.  It is their risk, and they willingly assume that risk.

And comparisons to league minimums in other sports don&#039;t fly.  First, MMA is not as big as these other sports.  Second, MMA is an individual sport, not a team sport.  If Peyton Manning wins the Super Bowl and makes millions, he was also helped by the rest of his team, who may go unnoticed, but still deserve a cut of the money created by that success.  However, if Forrest Griffin wins a fight, it isn&#039;t like some guy fighting on the undercard helped him in any way.

The salaries will come as the sport grows, but we don&#039;t base salaries just on how hard someone worked - especially if it is just hard work in support of their own dream, without any real external benefit to anyone else.  There are plenty of Olympians who will never make a dime, and have probably sacrificed more than many MMA athletes will ever know.  But that is their choice, and their dream, and it doesn&#039;t mean we should pay them if nobody wants to watch whatever it is that they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also&#8230;</p>
<p>The truth is, a fighter is NOT paid for the 9 &#8211; 12 months they spent training.  They are paid for the fight, and the fight alone.  The 9 &#8211; 12 months spent training are an investment made by the fighter that they may or may not recoup monetarily.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t remember anyone suggesting that these fighters fight for free for the good of the sport when Zuffa was putting in their investment of time and money, which at the time, was pretty uncertain whether or not they would recoup.  Nobody demanded Tito Ortiz cut his asking price in half when the Fertitta&#8217;s were paying him out of their own pocket and losing millions on the shows he would headline.</p>
<p>I think the problem a lot of people have when talking about money in MMA is that they want to put the cart before the horse.  We all want this to be a mainstream sport so badly that we forget how young a sport it truly is.  Zuffa is still paying off debts, and has undertaken new debts that make that initial $40 million they lost seem insignificant.  They took out nearly $300 million in debts so that they could reinvest in the sport and their company to grow MMA even bigger.  That will take them years of profits to pay off, but nobody seems concerned about their finances.  </p>
<p>One day, when MMA is a mainstream sport, perhaps the stars will make tens of millions, and the average UFC fighter will make a good living.  But right now, our instant gratification society thinks those things should happen BEFORE the sport has proven to be a long-term money maker.  We are only 3 YEARS into the time when Zuffa has actually proven profitable.  Only three years!  And no other organization has yet done the same.</p>
<p>Maybe we would get better fighters if they paid more, but that doesn&#8217;t matter yet if the sport isn&#8217;t big enough to maintain those salaries.  This is a period of sacrifice for a lot of people &#8211; athletes, promoters, trainers, investors, etc. &#8211; and most probably won&#8217;t be able to be successful.  It is their risk, and they willingly assume that risk.</p>
<p>And comparisons to league minimums in other sports don&#8217;t fly.  First, MMA is not as big as these other sports.  Second, MMA is an individual sport, not a team sport.  If Peyton Manning wins the Super Bowl and makes millions, he was also helped by the rest of his team, who may go unnoticed, but still deserve a cut of the money created by that success.  However, if Forrest Griffin wins a fight, it isn&#8217;t like some guy fighting on the undercard helped him in any way.</p>
<p>The salaries will come as the sport grows, but we don&#8217;t base salaries just on how hard someone worked &#8211; especially if it is just hard work in support of their own dream, without any real external benefit to anyone else.  There are plenty of Olympians who will never make a dime, and have probably sacrificed more than many MMA athletes will ever know.  But that is their choice, and their dream, and it doesn&#8217;t mean we should pay them if nobody wants to watch whatever it is that they do.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-45905" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45905', 'add', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-45905-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-45905" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45905', 'subtract', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-45905-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: Imbecile</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/24/can-someone-please-offer-a-good-explanation-as-to-why-the-muhammad-ali-act-should-apply-to-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-45903</link>
		<dc:creator>Imbecile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5715#comment-45903</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Kuch, and several others above.  Sorry Sam.  I know it is tough, and I know you are probably feeling a lot of these pains personally, since you are now putting in the effort of supporting your wife&#039;s dream of being a professional fighter [I really do empathize, since I am trying to support my wife through $200,000 in grad school costs].

I think it is great that these fighters (and your wife) are all pursuing their dreams.  But anyone that has the dream of becoming a professional athlete has to know that pursuing that dream comes with tremendous sacrifices and a high chance of outright failure.  If just anyone could become a professional athlete then we wouldn&#039;t have such a strong desire to watch these sports.  We watch professional sports to see something extraordinary, and the most extraordinary athletes get paid the most because they are who we want to see the most.  We don&#039;t pay high ticket prices to go see the 30-and-over co-ed softball leagues down at the local field.

The same goes with MMA fighters.  They aren&#039;t paid as much because we aren&#039;t necessarily paying to watch them.  As their recognition grows, their pay will increase.  However, there is a high degree of failure, and most should be prepared to never get much financial reward for their efforts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Kuch, and several others above.  Sorry Sam.  I know it is tough, and I know you are probably feeling a lot of these pains personally, since you are now putting in the effort of supporting your wife&#8217;s dream of being a professional fighter [I really do empathize, since I am trying to support my wife through $200,000 in grad school costs].</p>
<p>I think it is great that these fighters (and your wife) are all pursuing their dreams.  But anyone that has the dream of becoming a professional athlete has to know that pursuing that dream comes with tremendous sacrifices and a high chance of outright failure.  If just anyone could become a professional athlete then we wouldn&#8217;t have such a strong desire to watch these sports.  We watch professional sports to see something extraordinary, and the most extraordinary athletes get paid the most because they are who we want to see the most.  We don&#8217;t pay high ticket prices to go see the 30-and-over co-ed softball leagues down at the local field.</p>
<p>The same goes with MMA fighters.  They aren&#8217;t paid as much because we aren&#8217;t necessarily paying to watch them.  As their recognition grows, their pay will increase.  However, there is a high degree of failure, and most should be prepared to never get much financial reward for their efforts.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-45903" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45903', 'add', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-45903-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-45903" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45903', 'subtract', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-45903-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: Kuch</title>
		<link>http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/08/24/can-someone-please-offer-a-good-explanation-as-to-why-the-muhammad-ali-act-should-apply-to-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-45893</link>
		<dc:creator>Kuch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=5715#comment-45893</guid>
		<description>Sorry Sam, but I’m willing to watch talented fighters walk away if they don’t like the pay.  They can go seek employment in another organization or they can apply their college degree (if they have one).  Choosing to be a fighter is just that; a choice.  No one said it was easy and I think it’s a little short sighted for you to expect the UFC to pay them more just because they are the biggest promotion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Sam, but I’m willing to watch talented fighters walk away if they don’t like the pay.  They can go seek employment in another organization or they can apply their college degree (if they have one).  Choosing to be a fighter is just that; a choice.  No one said it was easy and I think it’s a little short sighted for you to expect the UFC to pay them more just because they are the biggest promotion.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-45893" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45893', 'add', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-45893-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-45893" src="http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45893', 'subtract', 'fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-45893-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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