Comments on: The Changing of the Guard http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/ Your Destination for Insider MMA News and Opinion Sat, 26 May 2012 17:18:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: chucks a schmuck http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-49203 chucks a schmuck Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:52:08 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-49203 ive been saying retire for the past year chucks washed up and was never that good to begin with ive been saying retire for the past year chucks washed up and was never that good to begin with

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]]> By: Lalo onzalez http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-49194 Lalo onzalez Thu, 11 Sep 2008 20:42:17 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-49194 I like Matt Hughes a lot, as well as Rich Franklin... the one who I have a problem with is Chuck Liddell. I have ALWAYS and still think he has been over rated. Had he beaten Evans he still would only have been 2-2 in his last 4 fights. Dana was ready to give him a title shot... Thats garbage in my eyes. Look at who he fought when defending his title... a bunch of grapplers who couldn't stand and strike with him. Thats what he built his legend on. Enter Rampage(a striker) and look what happens. So in part I bid goodluck to Rich and Matt, but Chuck... PLEASE! I like Matt Hughes a lot, as well as Rich Franklin… the one who I have a problem with is Chuck Liddell. I have ALWAYS and still think he has been over rated. Had he beaten Evans he still would only have been 2-2 in his last 4 fights. Dana was ready to give him a title shot… Thats garbage in my eyes. Look at who he fought when defending his title… a bunch of grapplers who couldn’t stand and strike with him. Thats what he built his legend on. Enter Rampage(a striker) and look what happens.

So in part I bid goodluck to Rich and Matt, but Chuck… PLEASE!

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]]> By: islandguy http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-49057 islandguy Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:29:28 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-49057 You are showing your age Nick... You are showing your age Nick…

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]]> By: Imbecile http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48893 Imbecile Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:44:39 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48893 @ dsid "...just happened to be at the top when the sport took off." Perhaps, but that is the point of Nick labeling it the "Golden Age." They were the faces of the sport when it broke through from a novelty niche into broader success and popularity. It is the personalities of these me, inside and outside the Octagon, that helped drive this sport into the mainsteam. Nobody disputes that there were pioneers previous to the generation of fighters mentioned in the article - nobody. But I see no problem elevating the alumni of the generation that broke through to a mainstream audience to to a special place in the history of MMA. They were the first superstars that of the sport as we know it today. And yes, I too included Couture and Ortiz. That was an agreement with you that they belonged among the same generation as Liddell, Hughes, and Franklin, though I hardly think I would have been at a loss to come up with those names had you not previously contributed them. That's fine if you feel no particular affinity for that generation of fighters. But there is obviously a large segment of the MMA fanbase that agrees with Nick as he waxes nostalgic about the generation that is now falling from their pedestal in MMA. That doesn't take away from fighters previous to them, nor does it detract from the current crop of amazing MMA stars. @ dsid

“…just happened to be at the top when the sport took off.”

Perhaps, but that is the point of Nick labeling it the “Golden Age.” They were the faces of the sport when it broke through from a novelty niche into broader success and popularity. It is the personalities of these me, inside and outside the Octagon, that helped drive this sport into the mainsteam. Nobody disputes that there were pioneers previous to the generation of fighters mentioned in the article – nobody. But I see no problem elevating the alumni of the generation that broke through to a mainstream audience to to a special place in the history of MMA. They were the first superstars that of the sport as we know it today.

And yes, I too included Couture and Ortiz. That was an agreement with you that they belonged among the same generation as Liddell, Hughes, and Franklin, though I hardly think I would have been at a loss to come up with those names had you not previously contributed them.

That’s fine if you feel no particular affinity for that generation of fighters. But there is obviously a large segment of the MMA fanbase that agrees with Nick as he waxes nostalgic about the generation that is now falling from their pedestal in MMA. That doesn’t take away from fighters previous to them, nor does it detract from the current crop of amazing MMA stars.

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]]> By: dsid http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48850 dsid Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:57:00 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48850 I wasn't trying to prove my own "authenticity as a 'true fan' of the sport". I just disagree with what Nick posted (isn't that what discussion is sometimes for?) The bottom line is that those guys Nick mentions just happened to be on top when the sport took off (and I noticed you added in Couture & Ortiz after I did - you're welcome). That's great for them and I enjoyed - and still enjoy - watching them fight. But to proclaim it a golden age of the sport and to mourn the passing of these guys as if they're icons doesn't make sense. That's all I was saying. I suppose some people will always cling to whatever period was happening when they fell in love with something, but I for one look forward to the sport evolving and to seeing new fighters come along to push the sport forward. Why bemoan Chuck or Hughes being on the downside of their careers when we have guys like Silva, St. Pierre, Penn (again), etc., etc. coming through and making the sport even better? I wasn’t trying to prove my own “authenticity as a ‘true fan’ of the sport”. I just disagree with what Nick posted (isn’t that what discussion is sometimes for?)

The bottom line is that those guys Nick mentions just happened to be on top when the sport took off (and I noticed you added in Couture & Ortiz after I did – you’re welcome). That’s great for them and I enjoyed – and still enjoy – watching them fight. But to proclaim it a golden age of the sport and to mourn the passing of these guys as if they’re icons doesn’t make sense.

That’s all I was saying. I suppose some people will always cling to whatever period was happening when they fell in love with something, but I for one look forward to the sport evolving and to seeing new fighters come along to push the sport forward.

Why bemoan Chuck or Hughes being on the downside of their careers when we have guys like Silva, St. Pierre, Penn (again), etc., etc. coming through and making the sport even better?

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]]> By: Sean http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48846 Sean Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:40:28 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48846 Great article Nick! MMA is a young sport that continues to evolve and the changing of the guard is proof of that. People will always remember the Liddells, Hughes', and Franklins of the the MMA world the same way football remembers Unitas, Namath, or Bart Starr... All were pioneers, but probably couldn't start for a Division 1 Team today, but will always be remembered as great because the era they played in. Great article Nick! MMA is a young sport that continues to evolve and the changing of the guard is proof of that. People will always remember the Liddells, Hughes’, and Franklins of the the MMA world the same way football remembers Unitas, Namath, or Bart Starr… All were pioneers, but probably couldn’t start for a Division 1 Team today, but will always be remembered as great because the era they played in.

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]]> By: Nate http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48829 Nate Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:51:17 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48829 nice article. the spirit is right on. If I was more particular, I'd debate the talking points, but I really liked the spirit of the article. nice article. the spirit is right on.
If I was more particular, I’d debate the talking points, but I really liked the spirit of the article.

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]]> By: Imbecile http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48819 Imbecile Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:24:35 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48819 Very nice article Nick, and it sums up the feelings a lot of us have about these former champions in the last couple of years as the sport changes. Those three men, along with Couture and Ortiz, helped define an era, and while still relevant, will probably never be the icons they once were. Pay no attention to that guy "dsid" who posted above. He clearly missed your point in an effort to prove his own authenticity as a "true fan" of the sport. Yes, dsid, we all know the sport had many pioneers before the men metioned in the article, but they were only icons to the select viewing audience that existed before the current boom in American MMA popularity. The men mentioned by Nick in the article were the icons that ushered in the era we all enjoy today, and really were at the top just when this sport needed them to be its standard bearers. It is sad to see them slowly and ignobly fade from being the icons that we all grew to know and love, and there is nothing wrong with recognizing their significant contributions. Thank you for doing so Nick. Very nice article Nick, and it sums up the feelings a lot of us have about these former champions in the last couple of years as the sport changes.

Those three men, along with Couture and Ortiz, helped define an era, and while still relevant, will probably never be the icons they once were.

Pay no attention to that guy “dsid” who posted above. He clearly missed your point in an effort to prove his own authenticity as a “true fan” of the sport. Yes, dsid, we all know the sport had many pioneers before the men metioned in the article, but they were only icons to the select viewing audience that existed before the current boom in American MMA popularity.

The men mentioned by Nick in the article were the icons that ushered in the era we all enjoy today, and really were at the top just when this sport needed them to be its standard bearers. It is sad to see them slowly and ignobly fade from being the icons that we all grew to know and love, and there is nothing wrong with recognizing their significant contributions. Thank you for doing so Nick.

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]]> By: bigSteve http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48809 bigSteve Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:15:12 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48809 although never a huge liddell fan i was shocked and embarassed that he got caught with that punch. hats of to evans but i still say 9 out of 10 times liddell beats his ass. good read. although never a huge liddell fan i was shocked and embarassed that he got caught with that punch. hats of to evans but i still say 9 out of 10 times liddell beats his ass. good read.

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]]> By: Sergio Hernandez http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48798 Sergio Hernandez Tue, 09 Sep 2008 14:11:07 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48798 IIRC, UFC 28 was the first event to be sanctioned by the NJASC. Zuffa, of course, took over with UFC 30. IIRC, UFC 28 was the first event to be sanctioned by the NJASC.

Zuffa, of course, took over with UFC 30.

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]]> By: Bocholo http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48796 Bocholo Tue, 09 Sep 2008 13:58:34 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48796 I like Liddell so it did suck to see him get laid out but i can't stand Hughes or Rich Franklin. Hughes is a penis and i encourage him to continue fighting cause i love to see the dumb look on his face everytime he is getting up from either being submitted or getting TKO'ed. Keep fighting Hughes cause most of us love to see you get your ass beat! As for Rich Franklin well i honestly dont' think he is that good. Big hype around him cause he beat Ken Shamrock.....who cares!!! Who can't beat that old fart. If Tito Ortiz can beat on your with ease then you have no business in the MMA fight game anymore. Besides Yushin Okami who else did he beat that is TOP LEVEL!!!??? Travis Lutter, Jason McDonald, David Loiseau and Nate Quary are NOT TOP LEVEL GUYS!!! That division was WEAK and he was the best in it at that time and now he is a TOP fighter!!!??? Are you kidding me Come on.....I garentee you that if Nate Marquart fights Rich Franklin, Nate would destroy Rich. Rich Franklin should not be in the article cause he is just not a top level fighter. Perhaps in a weak division at the time but his career will now consist of random and pointless fights cause he can't beat Silva and he won't beat anyone better then Hamil. Sorry Franklin you hit a dead end I like Liddell so it did suck to see him get laid out but i can’t stand Hughes or Rich Franklin. Hughes is a penis and i encourage him to continue fighting cause i love to see the dumb look on his face everytime he is getting up from either being submitted or getting TKO’ed. Keep fighting Hughes cause most of us love to see you get your ass beat! As for Rich Franklin well i honestly dont’ think he is that good. Big hype around him cause he beat Ken Shamrock…..who cares!!! Who can’t beat that old fart. If Tito Ortiz can beat on your with ease then you have no business in the MMA fight game anymore. Besides Yushin Okami who else did he beat that is TOP LEVEL!!!??? Travis Lutter, Jason McDonald, David Loiseau and Nate Quary are NOT TOP LEVEL GUYS!!! That division was WEAK and he was the best in it at that time and now he is a TOP fighter!!!??? Are you kidding me Come on…..I garentee you that if Nate Marquart fights Rich Franklin, Nate would destroy Rich. Rich Franklin should not be in the article cause he is just not a top level fighter. Perhaps in a weak division at the time but his career will now consist of random and pointless fights cause he can’t beat Silva and he won’t beat anyone better then Hamil. Sorry Franklin you hit a dead end

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]]> By: John http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48788 John Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:43:38 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48788 "Zuffa purchased the Ultimate Fighting Championship in 2000. In 2001 they started to get the sport regulated." Wait a minute. Zuffa bought the UFC in 2001, not 2000. And what's this about Zuffa getting the sport regulated? Surely everyone knows there had been sanctioned and regulated events in New Jersey before Zuffa existed? Pretty surprised to see The Zuffa Myth on an MMA blog. “Zuffa purchased the Ultimate Fighting Championship in 2000. In 2001 they started to get the sport regulated.”

Wait a minute. Zuffa bought the UFC in 2001, not 2000. And what’s this about Zuffa getting the sport regulated? Surely everyone knows there had been sanctioned and regulated events in New Jersey before Zuffa existed? Pretty surprised to see The Zuffa Myth on an MMA blog.

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]]> By: dsid http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48717 dsid Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:30:48 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48717 You can't just start the clock at 2001. MMA had seen massive evolution prior to that, thanks in large part to many of the people I mentioned. Heck, you even left out Tito (much as he irritates me) and Randy. How can you say that Chuck or Rich brought wrestling to the sport rather than those guys? It just doesn't follow. Also, I can't agree with 2001 and beyond reprsenting any kind of "Golden Age" of the sport. Maybe for you, but there are those of us who clearly remember the true golden age of the sport, which were the early tournaments. That was the time when everyone learned what real fighting was all about and truly distinct styles came up against one another. Heck, prior to that people actually believed that guys claiming to be a 10th Dan this, or a Red Sash that, or a Ninja other thing, actually new how to fight. The early UFCs changed all that (here's to truth winning over bs) so I'm not sure how you could call any other period the "Golden Age" of the UFC. You can’t just start the clock at 2001. MMA had seen massive evolution prior to that, thanks in large part to many of the people I mentioned. Heck, you even left out Tito (much as he irritates me) and Randy. How can you say that Chuck or Rich brought wrestling to the sport rather than those guys? It just doesn’t follow.

Also, I can’t agree with 2001 and beyond reprsenting any kind of “Golden Age” of the sport. Maybe for you, but there are those of us who clearly remember the true golden age of the sport, which were the early tournaments.

That was the time when everyone learned what real fighting was all about and truly distinct styles came up against one another. Heck, prior to that people actually believed that guys claiming to be a 10th Dan this, or a Red Sash that, or a Ninja other thing, actually new how to fight. The early UFCs changed all that (here’s to truth winning over bs) so I’m not sure how you could call any other period the “Golden Age” of the UFC.

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]]> By: Steve http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48695 Steve Tue, 09 Sep 2008 01:15:57 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48695 great read, i agree. great read, i agree.

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]]> By: Rich S. http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48692 Rich S. Tue, 09 Sep 2008 00:02:17 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48692 "Why can’t we have an edit feature for every time we fubar the keyboard?" i second that, i mess up every time :) oh.. great article.. “Why can’t we have an edit feature for every time we fubar the keyboard?”

i second that, i mess up every time :)

oh.. great article..

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]]> By: platypus http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48691 platypus Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:58:32 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48691 let him make a point ppls let him make a point ppls

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]]> By: Mike A http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48686 Mike A Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:19:50 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48686 Why the hell is franklin in there... to me hes a relative newcomer compared to Chuck and Hughes, not to mention hes only lost 2 times in the UFC and it was the the same guy... hes faaaar from done?? Why the hell is franklin in there… to me hes a relative newcomer compared to Chuck and Hughes, not to mention hes only lost 2 times in the UFC and it was the the same guy… hes faaaar from done??

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]]> By: Ronnie Liddle http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48685 Ronnie Liddle Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:57:28 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48685 spelliing - Kimbo = kimo spelliing – Kimbo = kimo

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]]> By: Ronnie Liddle http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48684 Ronnie Liddle Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:31:02 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48684 It happened before, it will happen again - hello, tank/shamrock/kimbo/graice. sucks, but everything changes. It happened before, it will happen again – hello, tank/shamrock/kimbo/graice. sucks, but everything changes.

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]]> By: milliniar http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/08/the-changing-of-the-guard/comment-page-1/#comment-48681 milliniar Mon, 08 Sep 2008 21:53:37 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6312#comment-48681 I still don't understand why franklin is including in the Changing of the guard, he has lost 3 times in his career, and 2 of his last 6 fights. those losses being to Silva arguably the best p4p fighter. Liddell is understandable in that of his 6 losses in his career 3 have come from his last 4 fights, 2 to people that some would say he was supposed to have no problem with. Hughes is also questionable though he has mentioned that he is old himself and may not fight much beyond his current contract, and also that he has lost only 6 times in his career 3 from the last 4 fights, 2 of them to GSP another man that people see near the top of the "p4p rankings" I still don’t understand why franklin is including in the Changing of the guard, he has lost 3 times in his career, and 2 of his last 6 fights. those losses being to Silva arguably the best p4p fighter. Liddell is understandable in that of his 6 losses in his career 3 have come from his last 4 fights, 2 to people that some would say he was supposed to have no problem with. Hughes is also questionable though he has mentioned that he is old himself and may not fight much beyond his current contract, and also that he has lost only 6 times in his career 3 from the last 4 fights, 2 of them to GSP another man that people see near the top of the “p4p rankings”

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