Comments on: The Ultimate Fighter Validated

By: Elizabeth L

Elizabeth L — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:36:40 +0000

Just like Rashad Evans I had experince that change my life 10 years ago in 1998 in a nursing home ! When he said his life changing experince on the Ufc countdown !

By: PoMoPunchDrunk

PoMoPunchDrunk — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:45:12 +0000

Every other potential MMA promotion needs to use TUF as an example to draw in casual viewers. As it was pointed out in this site, these are the people that pay the bills. People like us who write into 5 oz will find MMA anywhere, but casual fans need it delivered to them on cable TV. That’s why Affliction is failing. Even EliteXC on CBS needs to have some sort of weekly or bi-weekly competition that gets the average person interested in their fighters. Then when they have an event, people want to watch because they have a vested interest in the fighters. Now they have to retread big name fighters (sorry Ken) just to get people interested. Their second televised card was a way better display of MMA than the first one, but the ratings stunk because no one knows or cares who was fighting. I really like Caplan’s point that other organizations succeeding is the best possible thing for the future of MMA, the only way that is going to happen is to have cable access to your casual viewers, build up your fighters reputation, then hammer us with $55 PPV costs, and we’ll eat it up. Just like any pro team, in any sport, you have to build with young talent, not aging veterans.

By: THORAZINE

THORAZINE — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 05:33:19 +0000

Imbecile, nice write up on the list… saves me the trouble of having to remember all the good TUF fighters in the UFC. TUF is and always has been worthy in the quality of young fighters they bring into the UFC. Somtimes they have fighter on there that really make me question their screening process. However, I’ve never missed a season and always looking forward to the next one… maybe there’s a future UFC champion in there waiting to be born.

By: Imbecile

Imbecile — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:50:15 +0000

Okay, I concede Gurgel was hard to put on my list. But, my point was “solid fighters that deserve to be in the UFC.” Gurgel destroys people in smaller shows, but has been lackluster in the UFC.

BUT…but…but, he does have a 3-3 record in the UFC, and I thought that showed that he at least deserved to be there. He will never be a champion, and he has proven to be a waste of his immense talent, but he went 3-3, not 0-6, which shows he is much more capable than someone like Wayne Weems.

Though I totally understand why you would disagree with his inclusion on that list. It was a struggle for me to include him, too.

By: Sonny

Sonny — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:19:12 +0000

I think the fact that the winner from the first season went on to become a coach 3 years later for exact same show should be enough to shut most nay-sayers up. And don’t EVEN begin to compare this show with crap like Survivor and American Idol.

Give these guys a bit to make themselves known, I think these contestants could be the next generation.

By: Rich S.

Rich S. — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:28:55 +0000

well BG,
i suppose that’s the point..
to have 1 or 2 winners for a season..
but, look at seasons 1 and 2..
they didn’t just take Forrest, Diego, Stevenson, and Rashad and leave it at that..
they took Jardine, Kenflo, Swick, Leben, Bonnar, Marcus Davis, Guillard, Burkman, etc. etc. and all of those guys are in the “upper echelon” of their classes right now..
but as you see, now-a-days, aside from the winners [Nate, Danzig, Amir, etc.] they barely take anyone from the cast.. i mean, they take some like WarMachine, Emerson and others like them, but let’s face it, these guys will never make it in the weight class, at least, not to a title shot..

TUF 7 is pretty much the perfect example..
who are they taking from that one aside from Amir?
CB, Riddle, Brown, and maybe Crudeur? maybe i’m forgetting some.. [i'm not counting paul bradley]
but, that’s FOUR dudes!
compare that to the.. 8 or so guys taken from TUF 1..

all i’m saying is that the level of “talent” is starting to decrease, maybe TUF 8 will change my mind..

By: Grappo

Grappo — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:23:14 +0000

“Solid fighters that have proven they deserve to be in the UFC:

20. Jorge Gurgel”

—-

hahahahaha

I like that list other than the Gurgel mention..

ah I see screwface beat me to it.

By: screwface

screwface — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:32:41 +0000

dude how could u put jorge gurgel in that list, he in no way deserves to be in the ufc, let alone the pta. he only gets fights because he is rich franklins friend , the has a big ass mouth and a napolean complex and 9 times out of 10 gets his ass beat. just saying, good list otw :p

By: Imbecile

Imbecile — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:28:45 +0000

I don’t necessarily agree with OCD’s conclusion.

I think you could make the case the Chuck Liddell is not at his peak any longer, but I think it would be hard to argue that the Rampage that just fought Forrest was not the best Rampage we have ever seen. Rampage just destroyed Liddell and beat Henderson, looking better in those fights than ever. And there is no reason to believe Shogun had lost a step from his days in Pride when he stepped into the Octagon against Forrest. It isn’t like Rampage and Shogun are getting too old, which may be the case with Liddell.

To say that TUF’ers’ success is do to a drop in talent just isn’t fair. I think it is an increase in overall talent that you are seeing that has closed that gap between the good fighters and the elite. Griffin, Evans, Jardine, Florian, Stevenson, Koscheck and others have elevated their game to compete with the elite, not the elite lowering their game to the level of TUF.

One of the great benefits of TUF is that it allows these fighters who were often working out in local gyms and holding down day jobs to truly become full time fighters. After TUF, they are now able to go to the elite gyms, train with the best, and do it on a full time basis. This has given several of them the opportunity to elevate their games to the elite level, when before, only the money-making superstars could afford to live and train like this.

By: Imbecile

Imbecile — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:16:27 +0000

Hard to argue with the results. If you had told any MMA fan 2 years ago that Forrest Griffin would be LHW champion after beating Shogun Rua and Rampage Jackson in consecutive fights, not one person would have believed you.

But there have been some fantastic fighters to come out of TUF; a champion, a few top contenders, a good amount of top ten fighters, and several promising fighters that are headed for the top ten. Not too bad.

Off the top of my head, let’s a look at some of the names, excluding the ‘Comeback’ season:

Champion:
1. Forrest Griffin

Top Ten fighters and top contenders:
2. Rashad Evans
3. Josh Koscheck
4. Joe Stevenson
5. Kenny Florian
6. Diego Sanchez
7. Keith Jardine

Fighters on the cusp of the top ten, or who have come close to it:
8. Marcus Davis
9. Mike Swick
10. Michael Bisping
11. Josh Burkman (there was a time he was close)

Fighter on the rise in their divisions:
12. Gray Maynard
13. Nate Diaz
14. Matt Hamill
15. Joe Lauzon
16. Mac Danzig

Solid fighters that have proven they deserve to be in the UFC:
17. Steffan Bonnar
18. Chris Leben
19. Nate Quarry
20. Jorge Gurgel
21. Luke Cummo
22. Kendall Grove
23. Ed Herman
24. Matt Wiman
25. Manny Gamburyan
26. Cole Miller
27. Rob Emerson
28. Matt Arroyo
29. Matt Brown

Interesting prospects:
30. Amir Sadollah
31. CB Dollaway
32. Matthew Riddle
33. George Sotiropolous

That is just 33 off the top of my head tat have proven themselves within the UFC. TUF has only been around since 2005, so that isn’t too bad of a track record. Especially considering one of the seasons, the ‘Comeback’, led to the revitalization of several fighters careers, including Patrick Cote, Matt Serra, Travis Lutter (sort of), Rich Clementi, Din Thomas, Chris Lytle, and others.

And don’t forget that were it not for the TapOut crew getting Diego Sanchez on at the last minute, his spot would have gone to Jon Fitch who was ready to get on the plane for the first season of TUF. So instead of “gritty veteran and top contender”, Fitch would be known as “TUF 1 contestant and top contender.”

By: OCD

OCD — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:41:22 +0000

I think it is pretty clear that Griffin and Evans both improved their games.

But, it may be the case that the talent level in the UFC’s upper tier has declined. Two cases: Rampage had NO ground game against Forrest, and Liddell hasn’t improved a bit in the last two years, and in fact, may have gotten worse (slower, more likely to just throw blows).

And we really don’t even need to talk about Hughes’s fall from grace. Outside of someone like Silva or St. Pierre, the talent has not improved overall.

If it is the case that the talent level at the upper tier has declined, it doesn’t vindicate the show as legit. What it says is that the talent has leveled out, the pool is broad but relatively shallow and all TUF did was broaden that pool.

By: Mike Wolfe

Mike Wolfe — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:32:48 +0000

I agree with Jackyl’s description of the TUF as a great farm system. But it wasn’t intended to be that, at least not in the beginning. As I recall, White and UFC came up with the concept to market UFC, and it has been a tremendous success. The farm system component seems to be a bonus. Makes you wonder why UFC doesn’t expand on the concept with some regional orgs comparable to AAA baseball.

By: Jay K.

Jay K. — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:13:36 +0000

I thought the new format should also include multiple coaches like a team format. Like if one team goes into the finals, they control who recieves the UFC contracts and such. What ideas do you guys have?

By: Joel

Joel — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:50:48 +0000

I remember watching UFC 1 live on pay per view. Thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. I was so excited when I watched Ultimate Fighter 1. Had no idea it would propel MMA to where it is now.

So I will keep watching!!

By: Jackyl

Jackyl — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:49:54 +0000

I don’t know what a lot of people’s problem with this show is. A lot of people have an anti reality show attitude. They won’t go near a “reality” show with a ten foot pole. This is pretty ignorant as there are all kinds of “reality” shows. The thing I like about this show is for the most part it focuses on the fighting and training. The house antics are thrown in there but to me it has never felt like your typical reality show. It is not “The Real World” with Ultimate fighters. Far from it. I think it’s great seeing the guys come in green and then seeing who really has the juice and who doesn’t. A lot of guys I thought would do good like Tait Fletcher ended up looking like crap. A lot of the guys talk a big game but they get in the cage and can’t hack it. This show has turned into a great farm system for the UFC. I do think that they need to change up the format because it is getting a little stale. I also agree that the quality of the fighters has gone down since the first season. If they would take a one or two year hiatus and get a good roster of fighters built up, I think that would help. I also wouldn’t mind seeing another “Comeback” season like they did before with established fighters looking for a second chance.

By: warcry

warcry — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:42:46 +0000

I have to say i never thought TUF competitors were going to challenge for the title. We now have these dudes challenging in almost every division except Heavyweight and Middleweight. I think Bisping will get close provided he doesn’t run into Nate Marquardt, or Dan Henderson. Rashad and Forrest, you feel like you know them personally from watching the show. It is a pressure cooker like Joe Rogan has said. Now you are seeing the diamonds come out of the rough of the earlier seasons.

By: finkrod

finkrod — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:03:26 +0000

I watch the show, and aside from the drunken escapades, I enjoy it. I ain’t gonna complain about free fights on T.V.

By: finkrod

finkrod — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:00:27 +0000

I watch the show, and aside from aside from the drunken escapades, I enjoy it. I ain’t gonna complain about free fights on T.V.

By: Jay K.

Jay K. — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:39:02 +0000

Why has everyone overlooked the two dark horses in this race?

Andy Wang aka Samurai, aka Ninja aka Cart Chaser in the local WalMart parking lot

Danny Abaddi aka “Ow, My back!” aka “I was in the UFC once!” aka “You want fries with that?”

By: stevefiji

stevefiji — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:58:38 +0000

What this validates is not the talent of the show… but the show itself…. there is certainly talent involved but there are 100′s of fighters now who might qualify

Once people are recognized from TUF they get more money and better training for a few fights… when they win by being fed proper level opponents, hi level access to quality training continues. That’s 1.5 to 2 years of superior training… a lot of good can happen then because most have never had that kinda of exceptional cross training before and with premium talent sparring.

Watch Amir develop and you will see it again… Remember he has had access since the house of 6 months MORE training…then 3 more already since the last CB fight…. it will be 4 when he fights… thats 10 months of full time top caliber coaching and training… He’s gonna be exponentially better every time he fights for at least another year to year and a half…

The system feeds awesome coaching to ‘good’ talent…. it does not take great talent and expose it…. it does work… but it would work with dozens of others who could get pumped into the system equally as well…