Comments on: The Ultimate Fighter Validated http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/09/the-ultimate-fighter-validated/ Your Destination for Insider MMA News and Opinion Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:04:09 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Elizabeth L http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/09/the-ultimate-fighter-validated/comment-page-1/#comment-49696 Elizabeth L Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:36:40 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6356#comment-49696 Just like Rashad Evans I had experince that change my life 10 years ago in 1998 in a nursing home ! When he said his life changing experince on the Ufc countdown ! Just like Rashad Evans I had experince that change my life 10 years ago in 1998 in a nursing home ! When he said his life changing experince on the Ufc countdown !

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]]> By: PoMoPunchDrunk http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/09/the-ultimate-fighter-validated/comment-page-1/#comment-49217 PoMoPunchDrunk Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:45:12 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6356#comment-49217 Every other potential MMA promotion needs to use TUF as an example to draw in casual viewers. As it was pointed out in this site, these are the people that pay the bills. People like us who write into 5 oz will find MMA anywhere, but casual fans need it delivered to them on cable TV. That's why Affliction is failing. Even EliteXC on CBS needs to have some sort of weekly or bi-weekly competition that gets the average person interested in their fighters. Then when they have an event, people want to watch because they have a vested interest in the fighters. Now they have to retread big name fighters (sorry Ken) just to get people interested. Their second televised card was a way better display of MMA than the first one, but the ratings stunk because no one knows or cares who was fighting. I really like Caplan's point that other organizations succeeding is the best possible thing for the future of MMA, the only way that is going to happen is to have cable access to your casual viewers, build up your fighters reputation, then hammer us with $55 PPV costs, and we'll eat it up. Just like any pro team, in any sport, you have to build with young talent, not aging veterans. Every other potential MMA promotion needs to use TUF as an example to draw in casual viewers. As it was pointed out in this site, these are the people that pay the bills. People like us who write into 5 oz will find MMA anywhere, but casual fans need it delivered to them on cable TV. That’s why Affliction is failing. Even EliteXC on CBS needs to have some sort of weekly or bi-weekly competition that gets the average person interested in their fighters. Then when they have an event, people want to watch because they have a vested interest in the fighters. Now they have to retread big name fighters (sorry Ken) just to get people interested. Their second televised card was a way better display of MMA than the first one, but the ratings stunk because no one knows or cares who was fighting. I really like Caplan’s point that other organizations succeeding is the best possible thing for the future of MMA, the only way that is going to happen is to have cable access to your casual viewers, build up your fighters reputation, then hammer us with $55 PPV costs, and we’ll eat it up. Just like any pro team, in any sport, you have to build with young talent, not aging veterans.

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]]> By: THORAZINE http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/09/the-ultimate-fighter-validated/comment-page-1/#comment-49093 THORAZINE Thu, 11 Sep 2008 05:33:19 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6356#comment-49093 Imbecile, nice write up on the list... saves me the trouble of having to remember all the good TUF fighters in the UFC. TUF is and always has been worthy in the quality of young fighters they bring into the UFC. Somtimes they have fighter on there that really make me question their screening process. However, I've never missed a season and always looking forward to the next one... maybe there's a future UFC champion in there waiting to be born. Imbecile, nice write up on the list… saves me the trouble of having to remember all the good TUF fighters in the UFC. TUF is and always has been worthy in the quality of young fighters they bring into the UFC. Somtimes they have fighter on there that really make me question their screening process. However, I’ve never missed a season and always looking forward to the next one… maybe there’s a future UFC champion in there waiting to be born.

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]]> By: Imbecile http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/09/the-ultimate-fighter-validated/comment-page-1/#comment-49062 Imbecile Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:50:15 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6356#comment-49062 Okay, I concede Gurgel was hard to put on my list. But, my point was "solid fighters that deserve to be in the UFC." Gurgel destroys people in smaller shows, but has been lackluster in the UFC. BUT...but...but, he does have a 3-3 record in the UFC, and I thought that showed that he at least deserved to be there. He will never be a champion, and he has proven to be a waste of his immense talent, but he went 3-3, not 0-6, which shows he is much more capable than someone like Wayne Weems. Though I totally understand why you would disagree with his inclusion on that list. It was a struggle for me to include him, too. Okay, I concede Gurgel was hard to put on my list. But, my point was “solid fighters that deserve to be in the UFC.” Gurgel destroys people in smaller shows, but has been lackluster in the UFC.

BUT…but…but, he does have a 3-3 record in the UFC, and I thought that showed that he at least deserved to be there. He will never be a champion, and he has proven to be a waste of his immense talent, but he went 3-3, not 0-6, which shows he is much more capable than someone like Wayne Weems.

Though I totally understand why you would disagree with his inclusion on that list. It was a struggle for me to include him, too.

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]]> By: Sonny http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/09/the-ultimate-fighter-validated/comment-page-1/#comment-49052 Sonny Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:19:12 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6356#comment-49052 I think the fact that the winner from the first season went on to become a coach 3 years later for exact same show should be enough to shut most nay-sayers up. And don't EVEN begin to compare this show with crap like Survivor and American Idol. Give these guys a bit to make themselves known, I think these contestants could be the next generation. I think the fact that the winner from the first season went on to become a coach 3 years later for exact same show should be enough to shut most nay-sayers up. And don’t EVEN begin to compare this show with crap like Survivor and American Idol.

Give these guys a bit to make themselves known, I think these contestants could be the next generation.

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]]> By: Rich S. http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/09/the-ultimate-fighter-validated/comment-page-1/#comment-49048 Rich S. Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:28:55 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6356#comment-49048 well BG, i suppose that's the point.. to have 1 or 2 winners for a season.. but, look at seasons 1 and 2.. they didn't just take Forrest, Diego, Stevenson, and Rashad and leave it at that.. they took Jardine, Kenflo, Swick, Leben, Bonnar, Marcus Davis, Guillard, Burkman, etc. etc. and all of those guys are in the "upper echelon" of their classes right now.. but as you see, now-a-days, aside from the winners [Nate, Danzig, Amir, etc.] they barely take anyone from the cast.. i mean, they take some like WarMachine, Emerson and others like them, but let's face it, these guys will never make it in the weight class, at least, not to a title shot.. TUF 7 is pretty much the perfect example.. who are they taking from that one aside from Amir? CB, Riddle, Brown, and maybe Crudeur? maybe i'm forgetting some.. [i'm not counting paul bradley] but, that's FOUR dudes! compare that to the.. 8 or so guys taken from TUF 1.. all i'm saying is that the level of "talent" is starting to decrease, maybe TUF 8 will change my mind.. well BG,
i suppose that’s the point..
to have 1 or 2 winners for a season..
but, look at seasons 1 and 2..
they didn’t just take Forrest, Diego, Stevenson, and Rashad and leave it at that..
they took Jardine, Kenflo, Swick, Leben, Bonnar, Marcus Davis, Guillard, Burkman, etc. etc. and all of those guys are in the “upper echelon” of their classes right now..
but as you see, now-a-days, aside from the winners [Nate, Danzig, Amir, etc.] they barely take anyone from the cast.. i mean, they take some like WarMachine, Emerson and others like them, but let’s face it, these guys will never make it in the weight class, at least, not to a title shot..

TUF 7 is pretty much the perfect example..
who are they taking from that one aside from Amir?
CB, Riddle, Brown, and maybe Crudeur? maybe i’m forgetting some.. [i'm not counting paul bradley]
but, that’s FOUR dudes!
compare that to the.. 8 or so guys taken from TUF 1..

all i’m saying is that the level of “talent” is starting to decrease, maybe TUF 8 will change my mind..

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]]> By: Grappo http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/09/the-ultimate-fighter-validated/comment-page-1/#comment-49046 Grappo Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:23:14 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6356#comment-49046 "Solid fighters that have proven they deserve to be in the UFC: 20. Jorge Gurgel" ---- hahahahaha I like that list other than the Gurgel mention.. ah I see screwface beat me to it. “Solid fighters that have proven they deserve to be in the UFC:

20. Jorge Gurgel”

—-

hahahahaha

I like that list other than the Gurgel mention..

ah I see screwface beat me to it.

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]]> By: screwface http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/09/the-ultimate-fighter-validated/comment-page-1/#comment-49015 screwface Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:32:41 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6356#comment-49015 dude how could u put jorge gurgel in that list, he in no way deserves to be in the ufc, let alone the pta. he only gets fights because he is rich franklins friend , the has a big ass mouth and a napolean complex and 9 times out of 10 gets his ass beat. just saying, good list otw :p dude how could u put jorge gurgel in that list, he in no way deserves to be in the ufc, let alone the pta. he only gets fights because he is rich franklins friend , the has a big ass mouth and a napolean complex and 9 times out of 10 gets his ass beat. just saying, good list otw :p

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]]> By: Imbecile http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/09/the-ultimate-fighter-validated/comment-page-1/#comment-49013 Imbecile Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:28:45 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6356#comment-49013 I don't necessarily agree with OCD's conclusion. I think you could make the case the Chuck Liddell is not at his peak any longer, but I think it would be hard to argue that the Rampage that just fought Forrest was not the best Rampage we have ever seen. Rampage just destroyed Liddell and beat Henderson, looking better in those fights than ever. And there is no reason to believe Shogun had lost a step from his days in Pride when he stepped into the Octagon against Forrest. It isn't like Rampage and Shogun are getting too old, which may be the case with Liddell. To say that TUF'ers' success is do to a drop in talent just isn't fair. I think it is an increase in overall talent that you are seeing that has closed that gap between the good fighters and the elite. Griffin, Evans, Jardine, Florian, Stevenson, Koscheck and others have elevated their game to compete with the elite, not the elite lowering their game to the level of TUF. One of the great benefits of TUF is that it allows these fighters who were often working out in local gyms and holding down day jobs to truly become full time fighters. After TUF, they are now able to go to the elite gyms, train with the best, and do it on a full time basis. This has given several of them the opportunity to elevate their games to the elite level, when before, only the money-making superstars could afford to live and train like this. I don’t necessarily agree with OCD’s conclusion.

I think you could make the case the Chuck Liddell is not at his peak any longer, but I think it would be hard to argue that the Rampage that just fought Forrest was not the best Rampage we have ever seen. Rampage just destroyed Liddell and beat Henderson, looking better in those fights than ever. And there is no reason to believe Shogun had lost a step from his days in Pride when he stepped into the Octagon against Forrest. It isn’t like Rampage and Shogun are getting too old, which may be the case with Liddell.

To say that TUF’ers’ success is do to a drop in talent just isn’t fair. I think it is an increase in overall talent that you are seeing that has closed that gap between the good fighters and the elite. Griffin, Evans, Jardine, Florian, Stevenson, Koscheck and others have elevated their game to compete with the elite, not the elite lowering their game to the level of TUF.

One of the great benefits of TUF is that it allows these fighters who were often working out in local gyms and holding down day jobs to truly become full time fighters. After TUF, they are now able to go to the elite gyms, train with the best, and do it on a full time basis. This has given several of them the opportunity to elevate their games to the elite level, when before, only the money-making superstars could afford to live and train like this.

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]]> By: Imbecile http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/09/the-ultimate-fighter-validated/comment-page-1/#comment-49010 Imbecile Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:16:27 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=6356#comment-49010 Hard to argue with the results. If you had told any MMA fan 2 years ago that Forrest Griffin would be LHW champion after beating Shogun Rua and Rampage Jackson in consecutive fights, not one person would have believed you. But there have been some fantastic fighters to come out of TUF; a champion, a few top contenders, a good amount of top ten fighters, and several promising fighters that are headed for the top ten. Not too bad. Off the top of my head, let's a look at some of the names, excluding the 'Comeback' season: Champion: 1. Forrest Griffin Top Ten fighters and top contenders: 2. Rashad Evans 3. Josh Koscheck 4. Joe Stevenson 5. Kenny Florian 6. Diego Sanchez 7. Keith Jardine Fighters on the cusp of the top ten, or who have come close to it: 8. Marcus Davis 9. Mike Swick 10. Michael Bisping 11. Josh Burkman (there was a time he was close) Fighter on the rise in their divisions: 12. Gray Maynard 13. Nate Diaz 14. Matt Hamill 15. Joe Lauzon 16. Mac Danzig Solid fighters that have proven they deserve to be in the UFC: 17. Steffan Bonnar 18. Chris Leben 19. Nate Quarry 20. Jorge Gurgel 21. Luke Cummo 22. Kendall Grove 23. Ed Herman 24. Matt Wiman 25. Manny Gamburyan 26. Cole Miller 27. Rob Emerson 28. Matt Arroyo 29. Matt Brown Interesting prospects: 30. Amir Sadollah 31. CB Dollaway 32. Matthew Riddle 33. George Sotiropolous That is just 33 off the top of my head tat have proven themselves within the UFC. TUF has only been around since 2005, so that isn't too bad of a track record. Especially considering one of the seasons, the 'Comeback', led to the revitalization of several fighters careers, including Patrick Cote, Matt Serra, Travis Lutter (sort of), Rich Clementi, Din Thomas, Chris Lytle, and others. And don't forget that were it not for the TapOut crew getting Diego Sanchez on at the last minute, his spot would have gone to Jon Fitch who was ready to get on the plane for the first season of TUF. So instead of "gritty veteran and top contender", Fitch would be known as "TUF 1 contestant and top contender." Hard to argue with the results. If you had told any MMA fan 2 years ago that Forrest Griffin would be LHW champion after beating Shogun Rua and Rampage Jackson in consecutive fights, not one person would have believed you.

But there have been some fantastic fighters to come out of TUF; a champion, a few top contenders, a good amount of top ten fighters, and several promising fighters that are headed for the top ten. Not too bad.

Off the top of my head, let’s a look at some of the names, excluding the ‘Comeback’ season:

Champion:
1. Forrest Griffin

Top Ten fighters and top contenders:
2. Rashad Evans
3. Josh Koscheck
4. Joe Stevenson
5. Kenny Florian
6. Diego Sanchez
7. Keith Jardine

Fighters on the cusp of the top ten, or who have come close to it:
8. Marcus Davis
9. Mike Swick
10. Michael Bisping
11. Josh Burkman (there was a time he was close)

Fighter on the rise in their divisions:
12. Gray Maynard
13. Nate Diaz
14. Matt Hamill
15. Joe Lauzon
16. Mac Danzig

Solid fighters that have proven they deserve to be in the UFC:
17. Steffan Bonnar
18. Chris Leben
19. Nate Quarry
20. Jorge Gurgel
21. Luke Cummo
22. Kendall Grove
23. Ed Herman
24. Matt Wiman
25. Manny Gamburyan
26. Cole Miller
27. Rob Emerson
28. Matt Arroyo
29. Matt Brown

Interesting prospects:
30. Amir Sadollah
31. CB Dollaway
32. Matthew Riddle
33. George Sotiropolous

That is just 33 off the top of my head tat have proven themselves within the UFC. TUF has only been around since 2005, so that isn’t too bad of a track record. Especially considering one of the seasons, the ‘Comeback’, led to the revitalization of several fighters careers, including Patrick Cote, Matt Serra, Travis Lutter (sort of), Rich Clementi, Din Thomas, Chris Lytle, and others.

And don’t forget that were it not for the TapOut crew getting Diego Sanchez on at the last minute, his spot would have gone to Jon Fitch who was ready to get on the plane for the first season of TUF. So instead of “gritty veteran and top contender”, Fitch would be known as “TUF 1 contestant and top contender.”

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