Comments on: Is it curtains for Affliction?

By: ununkvadrium

ununkvadrium — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:58:47 +0000

Head-to-head competition against Zuffa from upstart promotions like Affliction will do nothing but stall the growth of the sport.

Not until Zuffa has their minimum safety distance to other promotions regarding the share of the MMA market will we start seeing them really challenge for shares of the entertainment market as a whole. As of right now, the only viable non-Zuffa promotion out there is Strikeforce with their regional approach that doesn’t aim at going directly at the big league.

Not only does head-to-head competition stall growth, it’s also proving futile. The UFC will be the NFL of MMA. Rest assured. And rejoice, ffs!

By: Kyle

Kyle — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:57:15 +0000

Fair enough, Sam. Your opinion is your opinion, its your site after all, and for the most part I enjoy reading your articles. I think you’re a great writer whos done a lot of good things for MMA. I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this issue, I’m not advocating that the UFC should be the sole MMA organization, I’m just arguing that like all other sports there can be only one true professional organization in order to bring legitimacy to its contenders. The rest exist as minor leagues that feed into the major organizations, and theres nothing wrong with that. But having two rival organizations equal in power would only make things too divisive, like boxing which is on the verge of falling apart because no one knows who the real champ is. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

By: Clint Koelling

Clint Koelling — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:48:40 +0000

If Affliction was Smart, they would Have Trump convince NBC to put on a Weekly Affliction MMA Show in a decent time slot… To Heck with HDNet, MAINSTREAM TV… What the hell else is Trump doing for them…

Trump had the Highest ratings on NBC for his show, I’m sure he could talk NBC into it…

1 Hour each week, 2 LIVE fights, use show to help promote a 1 Big Fight (2 undercard fights) 2 Hour PPV every other month for $24.95…

That way they can put alot of the Talent on Free TV, Have A couple BIG fights to promote for PPV (just like boxing, Say Fedor vs. Tito and 2 undercard fights with Lindland or Babalu)… Keep PPV at 2 Hours and Charge only $25 Bucks…

And Keep the PPV’s in Cali or Trump’s Places to make Sure they have No trouble…

Also Need MMA Stars… Sure Barnett’s Top Ranked, But No one Knows him… Fedor is getting some Exposure, but still kinda unknown…

Tito Ortiz, Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell, Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo, Frank Shamrock, Tank Abbott, & Brock Lesnar are some of the BIGGEST Drawing Fighters out there… So they need as many of them as they can get for the PPV fights…

By: Duty Guy

Duty Guy — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:43:20 +0000

good points Nate. However, it really isn’t like tennis or Golf at all. We’re talking about an organization that deals with fights. It would be extremely difficult for them to arrange the sport like Tennis where they have several large tournaments and there are seedings based on past performances, etc. Same with Golf. Maybe the way UFC used to be run with multiple fights in a night. But now it is fight for entertainment in the mainstream. Fighters can fight 3-6 fights in a year depending on their results. And it is highly individualized. But they all fight for a belt in a weight class. UFC works to get fighters to fight for the belt. And they want the best fights. Fighters must prove themselves by fighting who the UFC pits them against. In Boxing you have a pissing contest between the boxers and their promoters to get ridiculous pay for a worthless fight which always ends the same way: Both fighters are killing themselves with the amount of brain damage they sustain due to the heavily padded gloves.

UFC is structured very well. They have proven that by making huge strides in the sport and breaking it into the mainstream. Wrestlers everywhere can now look to getting into MMA. It really is a treat to see stories like Forrest Griffin, Chuck Lidell, etc. But they need the organization of the UFC to succeed. Without the UFC these guys never make it to ESPN or TV in the states.

By: Nate

Nate — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:05:34 +0000

MMA is about individuals. The closest business model is more like Tennis or Golf.

In that case, Affliction could just sponsor a once a year event, like Wimbledon, that everyone looks forward to.

A problem arises in that the UFC locks down the players, they wont be able to compete. Maybe Affliction can start with lesser known players before they get to the UFC.

So even though UFC is primarily responsible for bringing MMA to where it is today, I am not sure the business model it chose is the best way to run this type of business in the future.

The NFL/NBA/NHL/etc is the wrong business model for MMA. I’ve never understood how boxing is organized, nor do I like what I do know, so I dont want to compare it either.

By: Imbecile

Imbecile — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:04:56 +0000

I root for the UFC and other MMA organizations that compete with them. However, I don’t just blinding root for every johnny-come-lately organization just because they are involved in MMA.

I like the UFC because they are truly fans of the sport, and want to see the sport grow, as well as see their business grow. I am not a big fan of either EliteXC or Affliction, because I see them as a bunch of investors trying to make a buck off of what they see as a new trend. Gary Shaw never was a fan of MMA, and every time he opened his mouth that was obvious. I don’t know too much about Atencio, but he seems like he has been around the sport in some capacity for awhile, but being controlled by investors like Trump and De la Hoya isn’t encouraging.

I would rather see organizations like Strikeforce do well, since Scott Coker has been doing great things for this sport for quite awhile. Guys like Monte Cox, and other regional promoters also do a great job. I liked the idea of the IFL, but the team concept was stupid.

I am also not for competition that comes in with investment money and creates unrealistic and unsustainable business models that shake up the industry in a negative way. Affliction came onto the scene with tons of investment money throwing around cash to fighters. They artificially inflated prices of these fighters, forcing their competition to either lose their fighters, or agree to the same unprofitable and unsustainable business model that Affliction is using. That isn’t good for the sport.

So I will root for any MMA organization that comes in for the right reasons and comes in to help the sport out. I hope they all make tons of money doing it. But I will not root for just ANY other organization simply because it is not the UFC.

By: Duty Guy

Duty Guy — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:40:19 +0000

On another point. How great is it for the fans of the NBA to see players leave for foreign soil? That means we have more Darkos coming over and we have players like Josh Childress leaving. That’s BS. Did the real football (soccer) fans enjoy seeing David Backham leave UEFA for the MLS? The MLS is an inferior promotion. I think it is hurtful to the sport, not because it detracts from the UFC, but because it could be unified and structured better with access to all the fighters, thus making MMA that much stronger. Then we could finally see if Fedor is that good. I think having multiple promotions is detrimental, and makes MMA much like boxing. The fighters should be slaves to the sport and fans, not the other way around. If they don’t want to fight, so be it. But if they want to fight, it should be worthwhile is they expect us to pay for it. I just don’t agree. And in my opinion I think your opinions are misguided and retarded (not fully, but partially).

By: Duty Guy

Duty Guy — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:27:44 +0000

Sam, always . . . I always disagree with what you write. In your estimation, is it necessary for other (beside the NFL) football leagues to sate your appetite for American Football? What about for basketball? Do you frequently watch CBA games? Euro league games? What a bunch of malarkey. The NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB are to their respective sports what the UFC is to MMA. WEC is like their farm system (not really, but you get the idea) or NBDL, etc. MMA does not need Affliction, EliteXC and especially Pride. The UFC format is tops. They have perfected their system and are always reliable. Having other promotions allows fighters like Fedor Emelianenko to amass a good record without having to worry about a real fight. Then you have hack writers trying to make ratings that span across the promotions. It doesn’t work. Fedor has conveniently ducked real fights and is hiding in lesser promotions. Meanwhile the UFC/WEC have fighters like Anderson Silva who will fight anyone at any weight he can make. Urijah Faber who has fighters declining to fight him. There are a lot of fighters that can take any fight. If you continually lose though, you’re done. Excellent promotion and the only one worth Paying to watch. I will only watch EliteXC when they have Kimbo Slice or Gina Carano fighting and the IFL is entertaining but DirecTV is making it difficult to find.

By: Sam Caplan

Sam Caplan — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:50:44 +0000

Kyle, you are aware that this site began as an opinion site? I’ve always been outspoken about my opinions since Day 1 of 5 Oz. and I’m not about to stop expressing my opinions regardless of whether you can handle them or not.

By: Ray Lewis

Ray Lewis — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:42:53 +0000

Affliction likely sold, or change of management, possible TV deal, or LAST show is their 2nd show. Either way, it is going to change a LOT soon. I think it is going under.

By: Kyle

Kyle — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:33:04 +0000

I’m not sure why you constantly need to denigrate other people because they don’t hold the same opinion as you. They’re only “so-called fans” simply because they would like to see the UFC succeed and its competition fails? Does that mean that NFL fans are “so-called” football fans because they didn’t support the XFL? I think you should focus less on maintaining your superiority as an MMA fan and just report the news.

By: HexRei

HexRei — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:24:13 +0000

Great article Sam, totally agreed. The sport suffers if the UFC is the only promotion and fourishes in a market with viable competition. The UFC stepped up its game hardcore when they felt threatened by Pride and the night of Affliction’s first show, the UFC pulled out all the stops for their last minute show to compete. I hate to think what will happen if the UFC really does wipe out all their rivals for good.

By: Batman

Batman — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:21:43 +0000

There is no way of knowing how long affliction will be around when they have only put on one show. I understand that everyone is excited about the fighters that they have and the potential of being great. The thing is, affliction jumped into the game full throttle, and now they need to slow this ship down and think this out and make chess moves. I agree with the cancelation of the second event because they need Fedor to headline their events to get name recognition. I think vegas is a terrible place for them to have a show considering it is UFC’s backyard as you stated in the article. I think Affliction should put on a major boxing match as a co main event for the Fedor/ Arlovski show, that would be cool and it would draw more ppv buys. With Oscar De La Hoya in the mix that is possible. Then you could have Tito Fight Sobral I’m sure that show would sell big, and place it at the Honda Center which is Tito’s backyard.

By: Ken

Ken — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:07:36 +0000

i am weary of the bs “spin” talk.

mma will evolve somehow into some non-ufc dominated form. hopefully it will be a new form, not something akin to boxing (ratings? who needs ‘em?) or wwe.

i hope the new form of mma organization will include those not just in it for a quick buck. as in affliction, donald trump, mr. cuban etc. no Golden Boy boxing baloney.

affliction reminds me of many business that become successful quickly, substantially due to one hot product. i wouldn’t call them lucky, affliction deserves respect, but not for their mma expertise. their sudden success may make them believe they can do anything. so they throw a bunch of money at a business they have no experience in. people will be happy to sing their praises and take their money.

i almost hate to say it, but Dana and the F ‘ s must be just sitting back and laughing at these guys. they are the godfathers of MMA.

affliction in VEGAS? where your competition is a proven winner and highly aggressive towards rivals. the owners of the UFC are big-time casino owners? it’s highly likely they have many friends and can “pull alot of strings” in vegas.

By: peter

peter — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:01:00 +0000

It takes competition initially. Since when has the NFL even had a threat to their dominance? 1975 with the WFL (unless you count the XFL, which you shouldn’t). The only way that anyone gets the pay they deserve is a STRONG union with a tenacious leader (see Donald Fehr). The willingness of the stars of a sport to join, along with everyone else, a solid union ensures the benefits that any athlete deserves. If the major draws don’t care how the lower tier guys do then there’s not any financial incentive for the owners to give a damn, there’s only one Randy Couture but how many thousands of fighters are willing to fight for just a few grand under the UFC banner?
It all boils down to the UFC being the NFL/MLB/NBA. They are IT. They have the largest stable of big names, the slickest shows, and, most crucially, the most attention from the casual fan. And unless something absolutely unfathomable happens that isn’t going to change anytime soon. So the only way they can be held accountable for taking care of these guys is a union.
The easiest parallel is between all the major team sports. Guys DID NOT get paid or receive the benefits they should have while making the owners a lot of money. Almost as soon as the MLBPA hired a strong leader, the first Collective Bargaining Agreement was reached nearly doubling the minimum salary afforded players.
And if you want to say that having only the UFC will lower production values as they’ll get lax since they’re the only show in town, well then that falls upon us, the viewer, to not watch. They’ll tighten up quick when they start losing a lot of money because they’re putting out a product that is inferior. MMA should not go the route of boxing. That is an absolute train wreck. Go the route of the team sports. Get more pay for everyone putting their bodies on the line, take care of them once they’re done, and put on the best possible show. It’s how the NFL is kicking ass today and for the foreseeable future, while the viewers absolutely benefit.

By: Ken

Ken — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:57:59 +0000

i am weary of the bs “spin” talk.

mma will evolve somehow into some non-ufc dominated form. hopefully it will be a new form, not something akin to boxing (ratings? who needs ‘em?) or wwe.

i hope the new form of mma organization will include those not just in it for a quick buck. as in affliction, donald trump, mr. cuban etc. no Golden Boy boxing baloney.

affliction reminds me of many business that become successful quickly, substantially due to one hot product. i wouldn’t call them lucky, affliction deserves respect. but their sudden success may make them believe they can do anything. so they throw a bunch of money at a business they have no experience in. people will be happy to sing their praises and take their money.

i almost hate to say it, but Dana and the F ‘ s must be just sitting back and laughing at these guys.

By: mattio

mattio — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:57:02 +0000

If the UFC needs competition, why does it have to be from Affliction? If the only companies that want to compete with UFC don’t make good decisions (use a ring instead of a cage, sign ridiculous contracts just to mess with UFC pay structure, cancel events), it’s better they just go away.

It seems the company is run by a couple of marks. I don’t want to support a company like that. I don’t know why anybody else would either.

By: Davey D

Davey D — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:35:39 +0000

I think that timing is everything and considering that there is big boxing event in Las Vegas this weekend and the fact “some people in the know” told Affliction not to go to Vegas, they did do the right to not eat as much crow as they could’ve. They simply bit off more than they could chew.

When Affliction announced they were going to Vegas, I thought it was pretty ballsy. That is the UFC’s backyard, they tried but they should’ve just stayed in Cali or even could’ve tried New Jersey. I agree with you Sam that no matter what way they want to spin this…it isn’t for the sport. At the same time had they chose LA or New Jersey, maybe the show would still be on?

Why they wouldn’t take advantage of the East Coast market is beyond me??? Donald Trump is one of their figure heads, no? If they get HBO or HDNet to jump on board to broadcast their event’s then think Affliction’s chances of surviving become even greater.

PPV isn’t really for them right now because they just don’t have all the needed resources to do it every time they hold an event let alone one per month like the UFC does. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what they’re going to tell us next. I hope it’s good news.

By: Mike Wolfe

Mike Wolfe — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:12:13 +0000

There can be lots of MMA org.’s The problem with Affliction is its business model, or failing to follow through. For better or worse, they decided to jump into the big leagues, signing established stars for big money and moving to PPV. Clearly, they were hoping to compete with UFC head-to-head. Arguably, that was too aggressive, but pulling the plug after just one production may be premature. UFC/Zuffa lost millions before it took off, Affliction should have expected to lose at least the same amount, and possibly more, if it intends to compete with UFC for the same fans. That means running more shows. They did a lousy job of marketing the first one, and I doubt they were doing any better with the second one before it was cancelled. Also, as Sam points out, why hold the fights in Vegas where the competition is so strong? Go to another part of the country with a big facility where a big-time MMA fight is still a novelty.

If Affliction or some other org. doesn’t want to risk 40 million or so, they should focus on developing local or regional markets, signing a wider spectrum of fighters. Get some up and comers, not just established names. Make deals with HDNet or whomever for television exposure. Sure it would take a lot of work, but if it was easy, everybody would be doing it, right?

By: ACK!

ACK! — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:27:19 +0000

Oh, and one thing about those team sports leagues is that in many cases it took competition for them to give their athletes proper pay/benefits and to ultimately realize their potential.