Comments on: Behind the Scenes of ProElite and EliteXC’s Demise http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/ Your Destination for Insider MMA News and Opinion Sat, 26 May 2012 15:31:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Imbecile http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54368 Imbecile Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:54:12 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54368 @ Cannon J - "The thing is that when you watch a UFC it’s very apparent that the UFC is presenting and pushing their product. When I watch sports on CBS, FOX, etc." Seriously? Sure the broadcasters are independent of say the NFL or the NBA, but they certainly go into pushing their own sport. They also are shills for their own network, which is paying them. And if the NFL or NBA didn't have monoploies on their individual sports, you can be rest assured that after NBC, or CBS, or FOX spends in the hundreds of millions to have exclusive rights to broadcast these sports, they wouldn't go out of their way to tout a competitor if there was one. Not that the XFL or AFL ever really competition, but if you were watching the NFL on CBS, I guarantee you that you never would hear Dick Enberg saying, "And by the way, did you guys see that amazing play in the XFL the other night on FOX." If they had been serious competition, you would certainly wouldn't hear a word about it. That is no different than Dana White ignoring Fedor. It is a stupid argument to think these broadcast avenues are totally independent of the product they paid millions to broadcast. Just because you are fooled by this illusion doesn't make it any more "objective" than it actually is. For all I know, Gus Johnson's salary was not paid by EliteXC and was still being paid by CBS. CBS did not own EliteXC, and still Johnson became a shameless shill for the EliteXC company line in the last event. (Small disclaimer: even still, I liked Gus Johnson's commentary, and a few years of covering the MMA circuit and he could be really good!) @ Cannon J – “The thing is that when you watch a UFC it’s very apparent that the UFC is presenting and pushing their product. When I watch sports on CBS, FOX, etc.”

Seriously? Sure the broadcasters are independent of say the NFL or the NBA, but they certainly go into pushing their own sport. They also are shills for their own network, which is paying them. And if the NFL or NBA didn’t have monoploies on their individual sports, you can be rest assured that after NBC, or CBS, or FOX spends in the hundreds of millions to have exclusive rights to broadcast these sports, they wouldn’t go out of their way to tout a competitor if there was one.

Not that the XFL or AFL ever really competition, but if you were watching the NFL on CBS, I guarantee you that you never would hear Dick Enberg saying, “And by the way, did you guys see that amazing play in the XFL the other night on FOX.” If they had been serious competition, you would certainly wouldn’t hear a word about it. That is no different than Dana White ignoring Fedor.

It is a stupid argument to think these broadcast avenues are totally independent of the product they paid millions to broadcast. Just because you are fooled by this illusion doesn’t make it any more “objective” than it actually is. For all I know, Gus Johnson’s salary was not paid by EliteXC and was still being paid by CBS. CBS did not own EliteXC, and still Johnson became a shameless shill for the EliteXC company line in the last event. (Small disclaimer: even still, I liked Gus Johnson’s commentary, and a few years of covering the MMA circuit and he could be really good!)

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]]> By: Nightmare http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54346 Nightmare Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:49:42 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54346 Sam, A real journalist would have discovered this situation two weeks ago when it mattered. Oh, yeah....you are/were on CBS payroll too. Have you gotten on your knees for Dana yet? Sam,
A real journalist would have discovered this situation two weeks ago when it mattered. Oh, yeah….you are/were on CBS payroll too. Have you gotten on your knees for Dana yet?

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]]> By: Justin Van Hook http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54314 Justin Van Hook Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:44:37 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54314 well Sam, I was just giving my interpretation, I don't really care if you or anyone else agree. It sounded like self-promotion to me, so I commented. I really can't believe you feel you need to respond. For the last time I really liked the article!!!!! It was well-written and informative!!!!!!!!!. Lighten Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <em>Justin, don't you think maybe you need to lighten up?</em> well Sam, I was just giving my interpretation, I don’t really care if you or anyone else agree. It sounded like self-promotion to me, so I commented. I really can’t believe you feel you need to respond.

For the last time I really liked the article!!!!! It was well-written and informative!!!!!!!!!. Lighten Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Justin, don’t you think maybe you need to lighten up?

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]]> By: Powers http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54279 Powers Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:32:04 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54279 I highly doubt they will miss Dave Herman. They need badass heavyweights right now. I highly doubt they will miss Dave Herman. They need badass heavyweights right now.

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]]> By: Powers http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54277 Powers Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:10:49 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54277 So that's why they paid kimbo so much, I'll assume that nbc will go primetime with strikeforce. Then CBS will go hand in hand with affliction. So that’s why they paid kimbo so much, I’ll assume that nbc will go primetime with strikeforce. Then CBS will go hand in hand with affliction.

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]]> By: Cannon J http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54232 Cannon J Wed, 22 Oct 2008 01:29:15 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54232 Is a broadcaster like CBS/Showtime taking over a fledgling MMA promotion a good long-term solution, anyway? I never did like the idea. The thing is that when you watch a UFC it's very apparent that the UFC is presenting and pushing their product. When I watch sports on CBS, FOX, etc., I expect the broadcast team to be mostly unbiased presenters of the given sport. Granted, there are connections between athletes who played for certain teams or executives/coaches who worked with certain teams, but there's generally no direct incentive for a game or match to turn out a certain way. With a broadcaster owning a promotion, I think the lines between unbiased reporting of an event and pushing an event are significantly blurred. Even if a guy calling the fight attempts to be unbiased, he knows that if one fighter wins it's better for the viability of the promotion that is owned by the company that writes his check. This was more the case with EliteXC than say the UFC, because it was structured in a way where they were dependent on the success of a couple of name stars. It just seems like a conflict of interest. Besides, what makes CBS qualified to run an MMA promotion although they couldn't have done much worse than ProElite's management team. Is a broadcaster like CBS/Showtime taking over a fledgling MMA promotion a good long-term solution, anyway? I never did like the idea. The thing is that when you watch a UFC it’s very apparent that the UFC is presenting and pushing their product. When I watch sports on CBS, FOX, etc., I expect the broadcast team to be mostly unbiased presenters of the given sport. Granted, there are connections between athletes who played for certain teams or executives/coaches who worked with certain teams, but there’s generally no direct incentive for a game or match to turn out a certain way.

With a broadcaster owning a promotion, I think the lines between unbiased reporting of an event and pushing an event are significantly blurred. Even if a guy calling the fight attempts to be unbiased, he knows that if one fighter wins it’s better for the viability of the promotion that is owned by the company that writes his check. This was more the case with EliteXC than say the UFC, because it was structured in a way where they were dependent on the success of a couple of name stars. It just seems like a conflict of interest.

Besides, what makes CBS qualified to run an MMA promotion although they couldn’t have done much worse than ProElite’s management team.

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]]> By: darkmetal http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54226 darkmetal Wed, 22 Oct 2008 00:50:59 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54226 Great writeup Sam. The only area I might disagree with you is on the idea that the "MMA Bubble" may have burst. This bubble burst from very bad management. You can also credit the demise to something that you didn't mention: MMA fans have been used to very high quality mma via the UFC for years. They knew what they wanted and knew what they saw as a scam. They would not settle for any combination of professional wrestling with MMA, or the hijinks of boxing promoters destroying MMA like they did their own sport. Give the fans a big "high five" for being smart enough to know what they want from an organization. As for the bubble bursting, I think this is just a dirty small bubble bursting. With the UFC expanding into Europe, and likely eventually Japan and South America, the future is bright indeed. Shaw will have to go back to rapping for his supper;) Great writeup Sam.

The only area I might disagree with you is on the idea that the “MMA Bubble” may have burst. This bubble burst from very bad management.

You can also credit the demise to something that you didn’t mention: MMA fans have been used to very high quality mma via the UFC for years. They knew what they wanted and knew what they saw as a scam. They would not settle for any combination of professional wrestling with MMA, or the hijinks of boxing promoters destroying MMA like they did their own sport.

Give the fans a big “high five” for being smart enough to know what they want from an organization.

As for the bubble bursting, I think this is just a dirty small bubble bursting. With the UFC expanding into Europe, and likely eventually Japan and South America, the future is bright indeed.

Shaw will have to go back to rapping for his supper;)

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]]> By: Martin S http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54199 Martin S Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:47:18 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54199 I was wondering why you hadn't posted anything in a while. Looks like you were just holding back on this beast. Great article. Stuff like this is the reason I read 5ounces over most of the other MMA sites. I was wondering why you hadn’t posted anything in a while. Looks like you were just holding back on this beast. Great article. Stuff like this is the reason I read 5ounces over most of the other MMA sites.

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]]> By: Sam Caplan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54185 Sam Caplan Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:30:04 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54185 "Looks like I was off by a few months. It also looks like I was wrong about CBS coming to EliteXC’s rescue and buying the brand from ProElite." How does that qualify as a pat on the back? “Looks like I was off by a few months. It also looks like I was wrong about CBS coming to EliteXC’s rescue and buying the brand from ProElite.”

How does that qualify as a pat on the back?

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]]> By: Justin Van Hook http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54183 Justin Van Hook Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:22:48 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54183 ihateemo and Patrick, while I am devastated by your apparent hatred for me let me assure you, I will live to post again. I was simply pointing out that anyone with half a brain could have, and did, predict the demise of EliteXC. In no way did I disparage or attempt to take anything away from the Journalistic qualities of Sam Caplan or fiveouncesofpain. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't come here. So hate me if you must, and just imagine what that means to me, but I will continue to point out anything I find to be ridiculous. I found the article both informative and well written, I just thought the pat on the back was funny. ihateemo and Patrick, while I am devastated by your apparent hatred for me let me assure you, I will live to post again.

I was simply pointing out that anyone with half a brain could have, and did, predict the demise of EliteXC. In no way did I disparage or attempt to take anything away from the Journalistic qualities of Sam Caplan or fiveouncesofpain. If I didn’t like it, I wouldn’t come here. So hate me if you must, and just imagine what that means to me, but I will continue to point out anything I find to be ridiculous.

I found the article both informative and well written, I just thought the pat on the back was funny.

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]]> By: ihateemo http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54177 ihateemo Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:00:33 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54177 Justin Van Hook: good job reporting all this on your blog and writing such a clear-headed and detailed analysis. Oh wait, you didn't. Sam: great article. Again. Justin Van Hook: good job reporting all this on your blog and writing such a clear-headed and detailed analysis.

Oh wait, you didn’t.

Sam: great article. Again.

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]]> By: Pete http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54174 Pete Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:45:51 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54174 Wow what an astute prediction nobody saw the demise of Elite XC coming. I really thought they were gonna be the second coming of Pride and challenge the UFC for MMA supremacy. Kimbo should go to Afflicition he would demolish Vader I mean Fedor. Wow what an astute prediction nobody saw the demise of Elite XC coming. I really thought they were gonna be the second coming of Pride and challenge the UFC for MMA supremacy. Kimbo should go to Afflicition he would demolish Vader I mean Fedor.

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]]> By: Tony Fennen http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54170 Tony Fennen Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:37:49 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54170 On October 16, 2008, the Company received a Notice of Default and Reservation of Rights dated October 15, 2008 from Showtime Networks ("Showtime"). Showtime claimed in the notice that the Company has violated a debt covenant under a Senior Secured Note Purchase Agreement dated June 18, 2008, and related Security Agreement dated September 10, 2008, as amended by Amendment No. 1 thereto dated September 10, 2008, and related promissory notes, each as may be amended from time to time (the "Loan Agreements"), requiring the Company to maintain at least $550,000 of unrestricted funds with a nationally recognized financial institution. Approximately $6.3 million is outstanding under the Loan Agreements, which is secured by substantially all of the Company's assets. The notice states that Showtime may, within three business days, exercise rights and remedies set forth in clauses (a) through (e) of Section 6.1 of the Security Agreement. These rights and remedies include: (a) exercising any and all rights as beneficial and legal owner of the Company's assets; (b) selling or assigning the Company's assets in whole or in part; (c) granting a license or franchise to use the Company's assets in whole or in part; (d) suing, demanding, collecting or receiving in Showtime's name and money property or receivable on account of or in exchange for the Company's assets; or (e) exercising all voting, consensual or other powers of ownership pertaining to the Company's assets as if Showtime were the sole and absolute owner thereof. The notice is attached hereto as Exhibit 2.8 On October 16, 2008, the Company received a Notice of Default and Reservation of Rights dated October 15, 2008 from Showtime Networks (“Showtime”). Showtime claimed in the notice that the Company has violated a debt covenant under a Senior Secured Note Purchase Agreement dated June 18, 2008, and related Security Agreement dated September 10, 2008, as amended by Amendment No. 1 thereto dated September 10, 2008, and related promissory notes, each as may be amended from time to time (the “Loan Agreements”), requiring the Company to maintain at least $550,000 of unrestricted funds with a nationally recognized financial institution. Approximately $6.3 million is outstanding under the Loan Agreements, which is secured by substantially all of the Company’s assets. The notice states that Showtime may, within three business days, exercise rights and remedies set forth in clauses (a) through (e) of Section 6.1 of the Security Agreement. These rights and remedies include: (a) exercising any and all rights as beneficial and legal owner of the Company’s assets; (b) selling or assigning the Company’s assets in whole or in part; (c) granting a license or franchise to use the Company’s assets in whole or in part; (d) suing, demanding, collecting or receiving in Showtime’s name and money property or receivable on account of or in exchange for the Company’s assets; or (e) exercising all voting, consensual or other powers of ownership pertaining to the Company’s assets as if Showtime were the sole and absolute owner thereof. The notice is attached hereto as Exhibit 2.8

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]]> By: Sam Caplan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54167 Sam Caplan Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:14:54 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54167 I've been checking the SEC filings and I've yet to see anything about a bankruptcy filing. Maybe shareholders are dumping their shares while they'll still can. I'm not sure who is buying them, but with a stock that trades on such low volume, it takes just one buyer to allow the share price to move. I’ve been checking the SEC filings and I’ve yet to see anything about a bankruptcy filing. Maybe shareholders are dumping their shares while they’ll still can. I’m not sure who is buying them, but with a stock that trades on such low volume, it takes just one buyer to allow the share price to move.

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]]> By: Tony Fennen http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54166 Tony Fennen Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:08:53 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54166 PELE.PK up in the last 2 hours..... How you figure that Sam? PELE.PK up in the last 2 hours….. How you figure that Sam?

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]]> By: Sam Caplan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54141 Sam Caplan Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:43:37 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54141 Wow, I can't believe I left out ProElite.com. There were too many mistakes to remember. Wow, I can’t believe I left out ProElite.com. There were too many mistakes to remember.

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]]> By: mma fan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54139 mma fan Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:41:30 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54139 what about ProElite.com? how much money was wasted there? and no mention of Kelly Persdew, Gary Shaw, and Doug Deluca leaving the company? what about ProElite.com? how much money was wasted there? and no mention of Kelly Persdew, Gary Shaw, and Doug Deluca leaving the company?

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]]> By: Patrick http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54134 Patrick Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:23:12 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54134 What is with all the god damn attacks on the writers of this site lately? Could you whiners be any more god damn ridiculous? If you don't like the way things are handled here, stop reading. Jesus Christ, it's not like there's not 1000000 mma blogs out there, I'm sure one of them will meet your standards of Pulitzer Prize winning journalism and achievements in editing. It's getting ridiculous, either add something constructive or do us all a favor and shut the hell up until you have something meaningful to say. What is with all the god damn attacks on the writers of this site lately?

Could you whiners be any more god damn ridiculous? If you don’t like the way things are handled here, stop reading. Jesus Christ, it’s not like there’s not 1000000 mma blogs out there, I’m sure one of them will meet your standards of Pulitzer Prize winning journalism and achievements in editing.

It’s getting ridiculous, either add something constructive or do us all a favor and shut the hell up until you have something meaningful to say.

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]]> By: Justin Van Hook http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54133 Justin Van Hook Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:08:03 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54133 Way to go out on a limb with those predictions Sam, a chimp could've seen this coming. But go ahead and pat yourself on the back if you must. Way to go out on a limb with those predictions Sam, a chimp could’ve seen this coming. But go ahead and pat yourself on the back if you must.

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]]> By: rob enderle http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/10/21/behind-the-scenes-of-proelite-and-elitexcs-demise/comment-page-1/#comment-54126 rob enderle Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:39:00 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=8124#comment-54126 >and then we all realized what a joke EXC was, and we turned on our own creation. Agreed. The MMA media takes a lot of the blame on the way and on the way down. Maybe this will be good in that with less content to gleefully attack, a lot of crappy quality sites who are based on bitching and whining a la FL will close shop. There are quite a few MMA sites that got in the MMA bubble and found VCs to live it up. Those will close soon. Quality writing will hopefully stand out on top. >and then we all realized what a joke EXC was, and we turned on our own creation.

Agreed.

The MMA media takes a lot of the blame on the way and on the way down.

Maybe this will be good in that with less content to gleefully attack, a lot of crappy quality sites who are based on bitching and whining a la FL will close shop.
There are quite a few MMA sites that got in the MMA bubble and found VCs to live it up. Those will close soon.
Quality writing will hopefully stand out on top.

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