Comments on: Jon Fitch claims Dana White is not telling the whole story about Mike Swick; accuses the UFC of strong-arm tactics during negotiations http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/11/20/jon-fitch-claims-dana-white-is-not-telling-the-whole-story-about-mike-swick-accuses-the-ufc-of-strong-arm-tactics-during-negotiations/ Your Destination for Insider MMA News and Opinion Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:13:21 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: William Melan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/11/20/jon-fitch-claims-dana-white-is-not-telling-the-whole-story-about-mike-swick-accuses-the-ufc-of-strong-arm-tactics-during-negotiations/comment-page-1/#comment-57998 William Melan Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:01:35 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=9148#comment-57998 Dana i fyou ever read this I would loove nothing more than to show these city fucks what a small town redneck that has nothing to lose is all about. Lets fight and lets give a show for the world. Do a "so you think you are a ufc fighter" series..... think about it Will Dana i fyou ever read this I would loove nothing more than to show these city fucks what a small town redneck that has nothing to lose is all about. Lets fight and lets give a show for the world. Do a “so you think you are a ufc fighter” series….. think about it
Will

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]]> By: Justin Van Hook http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/11/20/jon-fitch-claims-dana-white-is-not-telling-the-whole-story-about-mike-swick-accuses-the-ufc-of-strong-arm-tactics-during-negotiations/comment-page-1/#comment-57926 Justin Van Hook Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:23:58 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=9148#comment-57926 By all means Armingo, enlighten us as to why Fitch is wrong in this. If you have seen the deal then why is everyone else wrong? Fitch has clearly seen the deal as well and he didn't like it so why is he wrong and why are you right? His deal and Swick's deal are obviously very different, unless you've seen them both you don't know what you are talking about. Please tell us what you know so that we might all know. My only questioin to you is this: How do you know Swick does not have special language in his contract that Fitch was not offered? I'm really not trying to start shit I just want you to back up what you are saying and I am genuinely curious as to what the differences in their contracts actually are. By all means Armingo, enlighten us as to why Fitch is wrong in this. If you have seen the deal then why is everyone else wrong? Fitch has clearly seen the deal as well and he didn’t like it so why is he wrong and why are you right? His deal and Swick’s deal are obviously very different, unless you’ve seen them both you don’t know what you are talking about. Please tell us what you know so that we might all know.

My only questioin to you is this: How do you know Swick does not have special language in his contract that Fitch was not offered? I’m really not trying to start shit I just want you to back up what you are saying and I am genuinely curious as to what the differences in their contracts actually are.

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]]> By: anomie http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/11/20/jon-fitch-claims-dana-white-is-not-telling-the-whole-story-about-mike-swick-accuses-the-ufc-of-strong-arm-tactics-during-negotiations/comment-page-1/#comment-57921 anomie Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:49:12 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=9148#comment-57921 Some of the talk here is absolutely crazy. People saying that fighters should sign lifetime rights? No one here would sign a contract with the company that they work for giving up their likeness rights. Here I'll give you a one year contract, but after that no guarantees. On top of that, if you leave (or I cut you/decide not to resign you) I keep your soul... Good Luck! This gives fighters absolutely no right to go to another organization and sign into the same type of merchandising agreements that Zuffa offers or anything that could ever compete with Zuffa. Because Zuffa would not sign the rights away, just to F with the fighters. And if anyone has read either Tito or Chuck's book, they both mention that when Zuffa took over, they were given managers that were friends of Dana. Hey, thats smart, let my personal business interests be determined by someone who is friends with the organization. Who do you think the manager is working for? You or the company? Anyone who would do this is an idiot! And anyone who thinks fighters should do the same thing, is also an idiot! Some of the talk here is absolutely crazy. People saying that fighters should sign lifetime rights? No one here would sign a contract with the company that they work for giving up their likeness rights. Here I’ll give you a one year contract, but after that no guarantees. On top of that, if you leave (or I cut you/decide not to resign you) I keep your soul… Good Luck!

This gives fighters absolutely no right to go to another organization and sign into the same type of merchandising agreements that Zuffa offers or anything that could ever compete with Zuffa. Because Zuffa would not sign the rights away, just to F with the fighters.

And if anyone has read either Tito or Chuck’s book, they both mention that when Zuffa took over, they were given managers that were friends of Dana. Hey, thats smart, let my personal business interests be determined by someone who is friends with the organization. Who do you think the manager is working for? You or the company?

Anyone who would do this is an idiot! And anyone who thinks fighters should do the same thing, is also an idiot!

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]]> By: theflyingtsunami http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/11/20/jon-fitch-claims-dana-white-is-not-telling-the-whole-story-about-mike-swick-accuses-the-ufc-of-strong-arm-tactics-during-negotiations/comment-page-1/#comment-57866 theflyingtsunami Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:55:09 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=9148#comment-57866 somehow reading this story reminds me of mel gibson in braveheart screaming, "FREEDOM!!" It may sound cliche, but i still believe in having rights whether or not i choose to exercise them or not, or whether or not they may ever materialize. if someone wants to take away those rights, and then threatens my livelihood if i don't give them away according to the "FAVORS" that i need to comply with, then that seems a bit unethical to me. and before everyone says, "they're a private co./ don't work for them, etc. etc....i agree w/ that, but only to a point. saying something like that is only valid if you have another company or organization to go to. otherwise, if you only have pretty much ONE choice, then that option sort of becomes moot and meaningless. can i choose then to not be a fighter - sure. but how logical or practical is that? especially in terms of the age, training, money and lifelong dedication spent towards being a pro fighter. which is why i say that........... i cannot wait for the day that another promotion is able to truly challenge the ufc so that when they pull their strongarm tactics on the fighters, they can actually say "f*ck u dana" and go elsewhere and really have a place to earn a living. for all the bad crap spoken about the other organizations, it seems they at least didn't squeeze the lifeblood out of their fighters just so they could earn every red cent from them. to go back to something very relevant that luke thomas posted in one of the many fitchgate stories: he asked several ?'s re: why the contract needed to be exclusive, why is it absolutely nonnegotiable, why cut fitch completely instead of just out of the game & is this more personal w/ zinkin than w/ fitch himself? the truth is, there really are no answers to these questions that can justify the lifetime issue and the nonpayment to the fighter, including upon his death. & it does not matter to me that currently no org. pays their fighters for dvd's or the like; they should & hopefully will in the future if the fighters get a union or something similar in terms of banding together. again, it goes back to freedom and rights. the ufc is categorically trying to take them away, and b/c they are the only real game in town, they can pretty much force the fighter's hand if they want to eat & continue to live. you can argue all u want that they (the ufc) have the right to do this, and while that may be true, it does not necessarily make it right or fair or ethical. i hope ea sports makes a video game and asks fitch to be in it and then let the ufc sue and have their contract declared illegal. that would be the sweetest revenge. i know fitch had to capitulate b/c of monetary reasons b/c there just aren't too many places to go at this juncture. fitch may never have another video offer, but the fact that he could & now cannot exercise that right is the main crux of the problem for me. the pt. is giving up a right that you have as a person and as an employee of a company and giving up that right due to pressure of not being able to thrive b/c there isn't enough competition. at some pt. what may seem like a small silly video game can lead to larger issues and rights that slowly are devalued by strongarm tactics. so much for freedom of autonomy. as fitch said, swick has a "special" deal for a video game so he's not affected the same way as fitch is; and who knows how many other fighters are exempt from the ufc's special brand of "offers they can't refuse." maybe it's time for a ufc - vegas tea party......w/ the aka boys leading the way. :-) somehow reading this story reminds me of mel gibson in braveheart screaming, “FREEDOM!!” It may sound cliche, but i still believe in having rights whether or not i choose to exercise them or not, or whether or not they may ever materialize. if someone wants to take away those rights, and then threatens my livelihood if i don’t give them away according to the “FAVORS” that i need to comply with, then that seems a bit unethical to me. and before everyone says, “they’re a private co./ don’t work for them, etc. etc….i agree w/ that, but only to a point. saying something like that is only valid if you have another company or organization to go to. otherwise, if you only have pretty much ONE choice, then that option sort of becomes moot and meaningless.

can i choose then to not be a fighter – sure. but how logical or practical is that? especially in terms of the age, training, money and lifelong dedication spent towards being a pro fighter. which is why i say that………..

i cannot wait for the day that another promotion is able to truly challenge the ufc so that when they pull their strongarm tactics on the fighters, they can actually say “f*ck u dana” and go elsewhere and really have a place to earn a living. for all the bad crap spoken about the other organizations, it seems they at least didn’t squeeze the lifeblood out of their fighters just so they could earn every red cent from them. to go back to something very relevant that luke thomas posted in one of the many fitchgate stories: he asked several ?’s re: why the contract needed to be exclusive, why is it absolutely nonnegotiable, why cut fitch completely instead of just out of the game & is this more personal w/ zinkin than w/ fitch himself? the truth is, there really are no answers to these questions that can justify the lifetime issue and the nonpayment to the fighter, including upon his death. & it does not matter to me that currently no org. pays their fighters for dvd’s or the like; they should & hopefully will in the future if the fighters get a union or something similar in terms of banding together.

again, it goes back to freedom and rights. the ufc is categorically trying to take them away, and b/c they are the only real game in town, they can pretty much force the fighter’s hand if they want to eat & continue to live. you can argue all u want that they (the ufc) have the right to do this, and while that may be true, it does not necessarily make it right or fair or ethical.

i hope ea sports makes a video game and asks fitch to be in it and then let the ufc sue and have their contract declared illegal. that would be the sweetest revenge. i know fitch had to capitulate b/c of monetary reasons b/c there just aren’t too many places to go at this juncture. fitch may never have another video offer, but the fact that he could & now cannot exercise that right is the main crux of the problem for me. the pt. is giving up a right that you have as a person and as an employee of a company and giving up that right due to pressure of not being able to thrive b/c there isn’t enough competition. at some pt. what may seem like a small silly video game can lead to larger issues and rights that slowly are devalued by strongarm tactics.

so much for freedom of autonomy. as fitch said, swick has a “special” deal for a video game so he’s not affected the same way as fitch is; and who knows how many other fighters are exempt from the ufc’s special brand of “offers they can’t refuse.”

maybe it’s time for a ufc – vegas tea party……w/ the aka boys leading the way. :-)

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]]> By: armingo http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/11/20/jon-fitch-claims-dana-white-is-not-telling-the-whole-story-about-mike-swick-accuses-the-ufc-of-strong-arm-tactics-during-negotiations/comment-page-1/#comment-57837 armingo Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:22:41 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=9148#comment-57837 robert what would you like to know I have seen the deal firsthand robert what would you like to know I have seen the deal firsthand

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]]> By: matthew http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/11/20/jon-fitch-claims-dana-white-is-not-telling-the-whole-story-about-mike-swick-accuses-the-ufc-of-strong-arm-tactics-during-negotiations/comment-page-1/#comment-57832 matthew Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:13:51 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=9148#comment-57832 If Fitch, or anyone for that matter, were to join a new organization in the next 5 - 10 years (and there will be others) or in japan, then they may have dramas being marketable within their merchandising campaigns. Hence preventing them substantially from getting paid what they may be worth on contract. Dana claims that if fighters leave the UFC why would they put them in a video game or market them in the future? Anyone who believes Dana and the UFC won't stand in the way of those fighters from being marketed by new or existing organizations (which will directly affect the UFC's bottom line, small or large) is delusional. No fighter at all, top or bottom tier, should sign lifetime likeness rights. Ever. No matter which organization they join. Fitch, good on you. Your career may pay the price for speaking out, but good on you. If Fitch, or anyone for that matter, were to join a new organization in the next 5 – 10 years (and there will be others) or in japan, then they may have dramas being marketable within their merchandising campaigns. Hence preventing them substantially from getting paid what they may be worth on contract.

Dana claims that if fighters leave the UFC why would they put them in a video game or market them in the future? Anyone who believes Dana and the UFC won’t stand in the way of those fighters from being marketed by new or existing organizations (which will directly affect the UFC’s bottom line, small or large) is delusional. No fighter at all, top or bottom tier, should sign lifetime likeness rights. Ever. No matter which organization they join.

Fitch, good on you. Your career may pay the price for speaking out, but good on you.

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]]> By: Robert http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/11/20/jon-fitch-claims-dana-white-is-not-telling-the-whole-story-about-mike-swick-accuses-the-ufc-of-strong-arm-tactics-during-negotiations/comment-page-1/#comment-57825 Robert Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:51:04 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=9148#comment-57825 armingo if you're such an authority on the deal offered to Fitch and think he's "talking out of both sides of his mouth" because you know the details of Dana White's offer please elaborate or are you talking out of your Ass. armingo if you’re such an authority on the deal offered to Fitch and think he’s “talking out of both sides of his mouth” because you know the details of Dana White’s offer please elaborate or are you talking out of your Ass.

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]]> By: Robby http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/11/20/jon-fitch-claims-dana-white-is-not-telling-the-whole-story-about-mike-swick-accuses-the-ufc-of-strong-arm-tactics-during-negotiations/comment-page-1/#comment-57824 Robby Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:43:45 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=9148#comment-57824 FUCK DANA WHITE AND THE UFC!!! If this is the way he treats fighters he just lost my 49.99 each month. FUCK DANA WHITE AND THE UFC!!! If this is the way he treats fighters he just lost my 49.99 each month.

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]]> By: armingo http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/11/20/jon-fitch-claims-dana-white-is-not-telling-the-whole-story-about-mike-swick-accuses-the-ufc-of-strong-arm-tactics-during-negotiations/comment-page-1/#comment-57822 armingo Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:26:10 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=9148#comment-57822 fitch talks out of both sides of his mouth. do you really think the IFC gave Swick a sweetheart deal and wouldnt give one to fitch? PAAALLLEEEAASSEE fitch talks out of both sides of his mouth. do you really think the IFC gave Swick a sweetheart deal and wouldnt give one to fitch? PAAALLLEEEAASSEE

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]]> By: portland mma http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/11/20/jon-fitch-claims-dana-white-is-not-telling-the-whole-story-about-mike-swick-accuses-the-ufc-of-strong-arm-tactics-during-negotiations/comment-page-1/#comment-57796 portland mma Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:27:53 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=9148#comment-57796 ? ?

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