Comments on: Famed boxing trainer Freddie Roach not a fan of Fedor’s standup

By: Mike Reilly

Mike Reilly — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:29:35 +0000

To me this is like a hockey coach saying he is not impressed with Eli Manning’s skateing

THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT SPORTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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By: neijia

neijia — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:39:46 +0000

@Jackyl, yes exactly. Mir’s punches were crisp and clean. The “running” someone referred to was good, controlled, attacking, forward movement, nice kick and punch combos, with a game plan to keep knocking Nog down (which worked beautifully).

In contrast, what has Arlovski been doing? Fairly boring boxing. How is that gonna work against Fedor? I don’t see it. I hope Freddie and Arlovski have changed the plan… As to Fedor being too aggressive??? There are several fights where he goes backward and forward, watching out for certain strikes such as CroCops left high kick. What is he talking about? Just good hype.

Fedor’s response “Sometimes it is a trainer’s job to point out weaknesses in his fighter’s opponents. And sometimes it is a trainer’s job to convince his fighter that his opponent has weaknesses. We will see.” says it all.

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By: Nihendo

Nihendo — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 05:30:46 +0000

Freddie is a smart guy. Just by circulating rumors that Arlovski can compete at the highest levels of HW boxing is a great way of getting at Fedor’s confidence with his striking skills. I would think that it was said mainly to get into Fedor’s head and make Fedor think while he is punching. Fedor is offensive and reacts when he is striking if you can get him to think before he throws a punch and act defensive you gain the striking advantage. Freddie is a smart guy.

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By: s00nertp

s00nertp — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:40:52 +0000

Boxing is boring. To me is is about as exciting as watching bowling.

Finding a guy who can stay at the top of his weight class that can beat the finest challengers who could be the best in a particular field of wrestling, grappling or punching. THAT is freaking exciting.

Sure boxing is a “fighting sport”, but I dont really associate it with MMA at all. Do people do that with Field hockey vs Ice hockey? vs Street hockey? I am glad fewer and fewer people put the two together. Most people I know who watch boxing would never watch MMA and vice versa.

If Andrei wins, he will shock he world, that is for sure.

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By: Tyler

Tyler — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:39:32 +0000

LOL! “neijia” says ” Mir’s striking was stunningly spectacular”.
Yeah if you think running straight forward at full speed while throwing punches is great striking then yes it’s spectacular.

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By: Jackyl

Jackyl — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:17:11 +0000

Someone above was totally smoking crack during the Mir/Nog fight. Mir was standing at range and picking him apart the whole time. He sure as hell wasn’t blindly moving forward just swinging wildly. The wild swinging is a problem I think a lot of MMA fighters have. Even the ones considered “good” strikers. They tend to not keep their elbows tucked and seem to punch at their targets instead of through them. While it’s true that you have to be aware of takedowns and kicks. It’s also pretty clear when a guy is standing with you, it essentially becomes a boxing match. This is where proper punching technique comes in. A good example is Rampage’s knockout of Wanderlei Silva. I believe Goldie or Rogan made a comment about him working with Ricky Hatton’s coach while at the Wolf’s Lair. If you watch Rampage land the knockout blow, you will see it is a perfectly thrown punch. Elbow tucked, full weight behind. A perfect hook. I think you will see a lot more MMA fighters enlisting the help of pure boxing coaches. I think this is great and we will see strking (punching) that is a lot more clean and closer to form.

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By: b

Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:06:47 +0000

Tim thought his standup was a lot more technical the Fedors and look how that turned out.

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By: ctownhood

ctownhood — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:00:30 +0000

Fedor’s standup is not flawless by any means..but it is effective. And even if Arlovski’s hands are better….Fedor is better in every other department.

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By: neijia

neijia — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 01:59:12 +0000

Did you guys watch the same Mir/Nog fight I did? Mir’s striking was stunningly spectacular. I don’t recall the last time I saw such great kickboxing in mma, especially in HW, and especially when thinking of a particular fighter as primarily a grappler. Sam did a great writeup here on this site: http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/12/28/the-biggest-star-to-emerge-out-of-ufc-92-try-frank-mirs-striking-coach/, but I disagree that Mir didn’t look like K-1 caliber. I thought he looked that good if not better.

If you can find a video, look at the .2 sec gap between his hi/lo and lo/hi combos. Also look at his leading uppercut that seemed to land at will. His game plan to continually knock down Nog but not engage on the ground was great. I think that night’s Mir could give even Fedor a hard time. Arlovski’s past boxing since he toned down the wild approach just looks boring and unpredictable, probably easy for Fedor to pick apart, even if Fedor’s style is supposedly not “technical” from a pure boxing pov.

Arlovski is actually a champion Sambo grappler as well. I just can’t see him in quite the same league as Fedor. On the ground, the psychological component is probably there. He may think “Fedor is an even better grappler”, so the better holes to look at are striking holes since anyone can “get caught”. Unless Arlovski is retooled as dramatically as Mir (who retooled with KICKboxing, not just boxing), though, he’ll have a hard time finding these supposed boxing deficiencies. Still, I can’t wait to see this fight.

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By: Tyler

Tyler — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:48:15 +0000

LOL “truth” I don’t think Arlovski will be striking like Mir now. Which was run straight ahead full speed while punching. The people who think Mir was striking excellent vs. Nog are crazy. Nogueira has just fallen far from the stud he was three or four years ago.

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By: truth

truth — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:42:49 +0000

“Is Arlovski suddenly going to be striking like Frank Mir now is and would that even help him?” What does that mean? Is Mir considered a good striker now?

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By: ACK!

ACK! — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:01:25 +0000

I’m no expert on boxing, but how can a boxing trainer comment on MMA standup? I mean, few boxers utilize a square stance, but Fedor has proved that it’s a very effective technique in MMA.

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By: HexRei

HexRei — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:58:13 +0000

James, Arlovski has a chance if he keeps it on the feet, but if it goes to the ground he is absolutely fucked. Fedor’s best game is subs and Arlovski was really getting worked by Big Country before he got that questionable standup. And Big Country is a decent wrestler, but a mediocre submission artist.
If Arlovski ends up in that position with Fedor, he’s going to be tapping out.

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By: James

James — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:27:37 +0000

I think Fedor is great, but I think arlovski will shock the world. He’s looked good in his last couple fights, and is well-rounded. Why does anyone talk about boxing anymore? Really, it is so BORING to watch. Rarely do we see the knockouts in boxing that are standard fare in MMA. A fighter has to have a much broader skill set to make it in MMA.

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By: neijia

neijia — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:00:29 +0000

This is sort of like getting the world’s best kicking trainers to say “oh, Fedor’s kicking sucks, so we’re gonna exploit that hole in his game”. Aggression is only a problem if it is wild and out of control which has never been the case in Fedor’s past fights. This is good hype, though. What else would we expect Roach and Arlovski to say? It does make me want to watch the fight more, so good job, Roach, and SI, and Five Ounces of Pain. Now I really hope Fedor keeps the fight standing.

Oh, didn’t Tim Sylvia also claim he could go into boxing in dominant fashion?

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By: neijia

neijia — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 19:55:18 +0000

Of course Freddie knows something we don’t … about BOXING. Why should he get the forum on MMA as boxers? MMA is not boxing. We all know that.

SI said Arlovski uses “paint-by-numbers”, which to me says predictable and stupid for MMA when other shit will almost certainly happen. Why would Fedor need textbook boxing standup if his game already works for him and he finds a different way to dominate each opponent? He is writing the new textbook on mma and no one has his transitions. You can almost see some fighters take 2 seconds to transition from one “range” to another where Fedor has no gap. Freddie doesn’t seem to understand how technical Fedor actually is (if we didn’t know better, his fight against Sylvia did look like untechnical brawling). Is Arlovski suddenly going to be striking like Frank Mir now is and would that even help him? Somehow I doubt it. Nog relies too heavily on bjj rope-a-dope whereas Fedor takes the initiative in every range. I also seriously doubt the other fighters are actually afraid of Fedor like people were of Tyson. If they get armbarred, they just tap, not like taking a left from Tyson.

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By: Justin Van Hook

Justin Van Hook — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 19:10:37 +0000

why would you assess an mma fighter in terms of their boxing unless they were actually going to be boxing? Assessing an mma fighters boxing skills before an mma fight seems to be pointless given that they are two different types of striking with two different skill-sets.

Now if Roach had been talking about Arlovski’s boxing skills that would make sense given that he intends to box at some point. But why would he talk about Fedor’s when Fedor has never been in a boxing match and to my knowledge has no intention of entering one?

It sort of seems like talking about a soccer player’s head kicks before a soccer game. Not the greatest example but the same action can require two totally different techniques.

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By: KTru

KTru — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:27:49 +0000

Drew pardon me for my hastiness, my response was over the top.
What I am saying(getting away from the fact Roach does not cover all facets in MMA), is that if he can find what is to be believed that Fedor has no holes in his arsenal, then I say he would know about the boxing aspect.
It could be as simple as Roach giving his fighter (Arlovski) some hope of standing and trading with “The Last Emperor”.
If this were a boxing match I may give AA the advantage, but it is not. I know Fedor will win, easily. But the article was what Roach had to say.If he is putting out there that Fedor, MMA versus boxing (similar as it is), shows weaknesses. Then it should be heard with respect.

Roach never claimed to know MMA, but when he assess MMA fighters in terms of their boxing, he should get the forum.

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By: G-DUB

G-DUB — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:18:42 +0000

An interesting development if an MMA superstar crossed over to boxing, but personally I would miss Arlovski in the octagon ( … assuming that what Roach says about 5 pro fights is true. Sounds like a full-time commitement). Does a move to boxing make fiscal sense for The Pitbull? I guess if he eventually gets a title shot, it’ll be his largest payday yet. Also, does a move to boxing make tactical sense for Arlovski? Isn’t his oftentimes glass chin one of his weaknesses? Just wondering what the draw to boxing is for this fighter.

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By: Imbecile

Imbecile — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:11:06 +0000

Roach may be the orgasmic pinnacle of training in the boxing world, but it doesn’t mean he is an MMA striking expert. What does he know about kicking, in both offense and defense, and how that changes your fighting stance from a pure boxing standpoint? What does he know about defending a takedown, and why that makes you more flatfooted than a boxer who is able to put more weight forward? What does he know about 4 oz. gloves, and the difference in strategy that presents when there is now the potential that an especially stiff jab that is well-placed can knock you out?

Roach may be fantastic at what he does in boxing, but none of the comments I have heard from him in assessing Fedor, or Anderson Silva, or any other MMA fighter, leads me to believe he is incredibly knowledgable about MMA.

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