It is men like you in the trenches who work daily to liberate 25 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan. Sure, there continue to be a small percentage of Jihadists who try to impose their wills via terror, but each and every day more young girls are going to school, more people are tending their shops, and they have less fear of speaking out of turn about their govt, or ours.

It may take years for them to fully realize it, but the citizens of these countries have been gifted from the life and limbs of our fine soldiers.

Many of us sit comfortably behind our PCs pondering the benefits versus the costs of any military endeavor, but few of us have the fortitude to make things happen. You did, and many others continue to do as well.

Take care and we will see you in the UFC, God willing.

I used to do recruiting. Nothing can happen to you. You are not blacklisted from government jobs. The recruiters have your name in a system and it shows if they have tried to contact you before. If they have contacted you and its noted that you refused to join than they will most likely not contact you again, Unless they really need the numbers.

You can refuse an unlawful order by anyone. orders have to be just and morale. as far as tim’s blog about getting hit every day. its inevitable, you would get hit like 8 times in a week than you get 2 days of not and like what happened thought we were going to get hit today but you never let your guard down. IEDs are a bitch.

You weren’t technically in the military yet – that is why there were no repercussions. There are provisions for people that washout of boot camp (fairly common). You essentially washed out, which is why you didn’t get in a boatload of trouble.

The response to you reference unlawful orders was accurate, but I think the thing that you are missing is that officers and NCOs don’t just go around dreaming up ridiculous things for guys to do because they can. Contrary to what you may think, a good unit is predicated on respect. People trust leaders that are competent and lookout for their guys, period. There is an illusion that an officer can just say jump and everyone does it, but in reality, no NCO worth a damn is going to let his men do something that is going to get them hurt or killed, nor is any soldier going to do something that will likely put his life in danger if he doesn’t have the utmost trust in his leadership.

Lastly, the thing I want to bang home is that we LOVE our guys. When I was still on active duty, there was nothing that I wouldn’t have done for them, or would do now for that matter. They’re our family. Their lives and those of their families are dependent on our decisions and we (military leaders) feel the weight of the responsibility daily. I know Tim very well. He is part of an exceedingly elite unit. In that unit, he is actually on a first name basis with all the men in his unit, including his commander. They know their roles, and they respect the fact that if they don’t all execute at the highest level, they don’t come home.

I kind of got sucked into the joining the navy when I was 18, but before going to boot camp I called the recruiter (who lied to me about job opportunities available) and told him that I was not going to join.
All that happened was the senior recruiter called me and tried to talk me out of it. I wasnt having it, and I got a letter a month later, stating that I, “REFUSED TO JOIN.”

and nothing happened after that. (maybe I am blacklisted from government jobs?)
Whenever I asked a person in the armed forces if they refused an order and what happened if they did, I just got a reply of, “you just do it.”

Thanks for sharing the insight,

benji

In response to Benji…no you do not have to follow every order, there are certain provisions when a soldier is not only allowed but I believe duty bound to refuse an illegal order.

For example if a commanding officer orders you to do something that goes against the Laws of Armed Conflict (LOAC), the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), American Federal Law, and the Geneeva Conventions then you can legally refuse as the order is unlawful.

Yes, you have to carry out the orders given by your commanding officers and senior NCO’s. It doesn’t matter if they tell you to take your tooth brush and go clean the bathroom floor or they tell you to go out on a dangerous mission. You just do it.

Should you tell your commander “no, I won’t do that”, well, there is always going to be a form of punishment. If you won’t clean the bathroom with your toothbrush, you are looking at losing some money and probably some rank. If you won’t go on the dangerous mission, you are looking at jail/brig time and dishonorable discharge. So yes, it can be career ending.

Do soldiers just have to carry out orders blindly, no matter what they personally feel/believe in? Are there times when you say, “no, I wont do that” to a commanding officer? If you do not obey is there a punishment that could be career ending? (in both military, and civilian life?)

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers this.

yours,

benji

I never thought I would say this willingly…

HOOAH! You do Soldiers proud Tim.