I’d like to see some stats on what type of fights tend to win FOTN. If there is money, and a good bit of it, actually pushing the sport away from the ground, then I have a huge problem with that.

Someone earlier mentioned Gurgel. A fairly apt comparison in this instance, and that’s not a compliment.

Maybe I’m just disappointed because “my guy” lost. Maybe I wouldn’t be bothered at all if Lytle had won.

4 out of 10 top ranked HW in the ufc are mainly grapplers (nog, lesnar, randy, mir)
4 out of 10 MW in ufc are known to like grappling(Leites,Hendo,Okami,Marquardt)
4 out of 10 WW-(Karo,Kos,Sanchez,Hughes)
3 out of 10 LW-(Pen, KFlo, Sherk)

So yea…grappling as we know it in the ufc is overwith…all them nobodys in the top ranks of the world…Relax…you will still get to see okami lay boringly on someone for 15 minutes if you want to, cause its his style. However…dont watch chuck fight cause he doesnt go to the ground…not his style.

This is NOT what we are discussing. Neither of these fighters was carrying the other to a decision in order to please the crowd. This would be like Archie Moore announcing he wasn’t going to jab because fans prefer power shots. And then he and his opponents actually not throwing jabs throughout the fight. It would make a mockery of boxing. Unless you’re Roy Jones. Then, that’s just how you fight….

“My point about the PPV’s was mainly that if people are constantly bored when ordering them that they will cease to buy them. Therefore, more exciting fights-more PPV buys.”

But isn’t this part of the problem? Why is the UFC training fans and fighters that fights that go to the ground are boring? That’s what the sport is!

“another instance of “MMA” “reporting” that shows a lack of depth of knowledge concerning the lore and deep history of the fight game…….read some books on the subject. looks like almost anyone can get a job writing about mma online.”

This wasn’t reporting. It was an opinion piece. And whether you agree with me or not, I think it is fair to say I’ve done my due diligence exploring the past of this and other combat sports.

“If you cant produce a source im going to have to assume this is your opinion or an assumtion, and as a writer you should know better.”

Of course it was my opinion. It’s an opinion piece. My opinion was based on Lytle and Davis’s contention that the first one to take the fight to the ground was a “pussy.” That’s a big part of MMA. They were saying that taking it to the ground was for pussies, standing and kickboxing (therefore) is for real men. They said this explicitly and Joe Rogan also repeated it multiple times.

“Same thing with Hockey and the Devils trap defense problem. You’re just wrong about a lot of stuff today Snowden.”

I might be wrong. The world would be pretty boring if we all agreed all the time. But these rules changes are not comparable to what is happening here. In all those cases, the sporting leagues changed the rules. The NBA didn’t offer Joe Dumars a cash bonus not to guard Michael Jordan. They changed the rules to make it harder for him to do so. You see how those things are different? They will be the same if/when Zuffa attempted to change MMA’s rules to prevent extended groundfighting.

Lytle -“Back to back fight of the night honors would definitely make me very happy. That’s my main goal this year, when people hear that I’m going to be on the card I want them to want to order the pay-per-view because they know it’s going to be an exciting fight. I want to be in high demand and I want people to want to see my fights.”

Snowden-Winning “Fight of the Night” — that was his main goal. Not winning fights, just fight of the night honors

Tell me how a professional such as yourself can possibly twist his words any more.

“Back to back fight of the night honors would definitely make me very happy.”
Aka-It would make me happy that my boss and the fans feel i consistantly put on a good show.

“That’s my main goal this year, when people hear that I’m going to be on the card I want them to want to order the pay-per-view because they know it’s going to be an exciting fight. I want to be in high demand and I want people to want to see my fights.”

Aka-That is my goal, to consistantly put on a good show every time i fight, so that hate me or love me, fans will be excited to see my name on the fight card because they know im not going to be boring.

He also used the words “Im expecting a stand up war.” which tells me he isnt sure what davis is going to do. Plus you have a quote in your own article from davis saying they didnt plan anything out.

Also-Show me a source for the quotes where davis and lytle agreed to not take each other down, or have a mixed martial arts fight, as well as the quote where the UFC itself, as well as davis and lytle, said that the sport they promote and participate in, is for pussies, and real men are kickboxers. If you cant produce a source im going to have to assume this is your opinion or an assumtion, and as a writer you should know better.

A. Announced before hand their intention not to have an actual MMA fight.

B. That they and the promotion both played up the idea that MMA fighting is for “pussies” whereas real men are simply kickboxers

As for C, im sure i can take this as your personal opinion/observation, which is fine. However, to say he was clearly outfought is a bit of a stretch seeing as though there was nothing other than stand up to judge, and it ended in a split decision. Had he been cleary outfought it would have been a UD. A couple of times Lytle looked to be one landed punch away from a KO bonus while he had davis on the cage. Of course he would feel he could end it, call it male pride or just pride in his own ability to fight. And this is hardly one step removed from prearranged power bombs, chair shots and hidden razors for blood effect. This is davis n lytles job we are discussing, who are you to decide how they need to do it. They dont walk in to your job and slap the keyboard out of your hands for posting a thread that can be construed as a mild form of fighter bashing, something that is a direct violation of your sites rules. And yes, comparing an MMA fighter to a WWE actor i imagine would be highly disrespectful and aggravating should a fighter see this.

C. Lytle was clearly outfought standing but still refused to try his advantage on the ground, placing commerce ahead of integrity. It is one step removed from guys agreeing in advance to try certain moves, techniques and choreographing certain exchanges in the name of “entertainment” and winning a bonus.

If a fighter can guarantee himself FOTN just by staying on the feet and swinging for the fences, then certainly some of the blame lies with the UFC for making their preferences so apparent.

The quotes are readily accessible. They were even mentioned during the fight. If you say “we talked and we’re not going to the ground to win FOTN” and then you both do everything in your powers to not fight on the ground and you win FOTN, the overwhelming likelihood is that they probably intended to do that.

elsewhere:

How does Phelps fit in? Does the ufc have different types of fights?

Apparently based on gentlemens agreements; yes.

That’s just stupid. No one decided to throw a fight in a ridiculous fashion by standing with some one they weren’t on par with to win a fight of the night award. They were both trying to win, and Lytle was expected to be the better striker of the two.

When he wasn’t winning standing, he didn’t attempt to win any other way.

Same thing with Hockey and the Devils trap defense problem. You’re just wrong about a lot of stuff today Snowden.

Then, as argued before by the author, change the rules. But in the past when companies have talked about doing quicker standups and the like (EXC), people went ballistic about how it affected the legitimacy of the sport. Instead, they’re subverting the rules through alternate methodologies and basically mocking half the sport by calling the initation of grappling “for pussies”. Probably not the way the UFC wants things to go forward unless they are actively looking for criticism from sportswriters.

So, yes. People did object to those teams.

Also, see the Patriots victory over the Colts that got the rules changed about downfield contact between corners and wide receivers.

People want to see exciting events. This is nothing new. It’s not a loss of integrity, it’s business.”

Same thing with Hockey and the Devils trap defense problem. You’re just wrong about a lot of stuff today Snowden.

That’s just stupid. No one decided to throw a fight in a ridiculous fashion by standing with some one they weren’t on par with to win a fight of the night award. They were both trying to win, and Lytle was expected to be the better striker of the two. So how is it dangerous for the sport that Davis stood up with him and won the fight with his keen countering and was awarded for it? Winning was Davis’ main goal the entire fight, same goes for Lytle. People are going to show their skills and fight where they feel comfortable. You offer them more money they’re both going to try harder, that’s not a bad thing, and it’s not going to lead to scripted fights. You people have no faith in the integrity of this sport. For a second I thought this BS was coming from Caplan and I was sorely disappointed, but it’s just some jerk-off sports writer trying to be the devils advocate to the UFC. If you don’t like how Dana run’s things you need to take a good hard look at this sports history and realize it wouldn’t exist in this country if not for him. He knows what he’s doing leave it at that.