Comments on: The “PRIDE” curse is alive and well following Kang’s upset loss at UFC 93

By: Mike Wolfe

Mike Wolfe — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:48:29 +0000

Davey D:

Thanks for the insight. I figured he tapped because of pain because it happened quickly, but wasn’t sure exactly why.

By: paddiosf

paddiosf — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:19:41 +0000

I was so disppointed to see Kang lose and I hope Zuffa and the UFC see’s the potential in him..he’ll get back but needs to get a Good win and get his confidience back..It seemed like he was Gassed near the end of the 3rd round and Ive noticed all the Pride fighters conditioning is very questionable and Its odd to me? and they had 10min first round fights????

By: yuushi

yuushi — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 03:47:12 +0000

El Guapo Said:

HELLO, Anderson Silva is a Pride success Story! UFC label him the best pound for pound fighter in the world. Well, I believe its Fedor but thats a discussion for another day.

Except that Anderson Silva fought for a year or so in Cage Rage between fighting for PRIDE and the UFC. So in that sense, he didn’t come directly from PRIDE.

By: Tyler

Tyler — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 03:26:05 +0000

Yeah OK rondog6669 if you think there aren’t fighters in the States using performance enhancing drugs you are completely naive. If a fighter wants to use these drugs and get away with it they will.

By: rondog6669

rondog6669 — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 03:15:32 +0000

The diference is drug/steroid testing end of story

By: neijia

neijia — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 02:54:43 +0000

I agree this curse idea makes no sense. A. Silva, W. Silva, Rampage, Henderson, have all done well. Who did Wanderlei lose to, Rampage and Liddell, who he beat and lost to, respectively, in Pride already. There is not a Pride vs. UFC distinction there, just match-ups. Who has Hendo lost to in UFC? Anderson Silva and Rampage (“from Pride”). Again, just match-ups. Rampage *arguably* lost to Forrest, but is really still improving, after 17 Pride bouts and 5 UFC bouts. Anderson Silva has always kicked ass and still does. Sokoudjou lost to Machida (who isn’t really a “Pride” or “UFC” guy, just damn good), beat Kazuhiro Nakamura from Pride, and lost to Luiz Cane. I don’t see a pattern.

By: Tyler

Tyler — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 02:36:36 +0000

Henderson is the complete opposite of Nogueira. He’s five or six years older and really isn’t slowing down his losses in the UFC were to Rampage who’s in the top three light heavyweights in the world and Anderson Silva who’s in the top three P4P in the world and his wins over Palhares who’s a stud and Franklin (who’s only other losses were to Silva and Machida) were quality wins meanwhile Nogueira has looked completely shopworn and slow in all 3 of his UFC fights. Not to mention he keeps adding weight which isn’t a good sign when it’s obviously effecting his quickness and performance.

By: truth

truth — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 02:01:32 +0000

Some of this “curse” is just career trajectories. Going up and coming down reguardless of the org. Nog is age and wear and tear, Henderson is in that boat too.

By: Davey D

Davey D — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:34:51 +0000

Mike, Denis was in half guard when he got caught I believe. It was deep. At that angle, his throat was getting crushed instantly. A blood choke can be painless at times. It depends on your position & technique. Kang tapped due to pain, it was unbearable for sure.

By: Davey D

Davey D — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:17:27 +0000

Cathedron: nice post, good point’s. It seems to me that the Octagon really brings out the best and wrost of fighter’s. This is the League. Only a short few have adapted very well inside the Octagon and the result’s have been interesting to say the least. The only thing missing in your post is that the GAME is different in the UFC. That needs to be said. Training & actually fighting are very different, right? Wand & Shogun were hit hard because they have lost some very dangerous weapon’s in their arsenal. They fought almost all of their career’s there and just aren’t the same now. Look at Spider Silva, he is an Icon now. Pride died almost two year’s ago. But it taught me just how big this sport is & what it can become. Let’s remember the good times and focus on what lies ahead. We got two great weekend’s coming up. Cheers!

By: mike wolfe

mike wolfe — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 00:32:40 +0000

Somebody with some Bjj experience answer this question for me: Did Kang tap because the guillotine cut off blood flow, or because the hold was cranking his neck or a combination of the two? It looked to me like he started to tap right away, so I just assumed his neck was being cranked, but I dunno.

By: John John

John John — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 00:04:53 +0000

“Thus far, the only PRIDE success stories in the UFC are Dan Henderson and Quinton “Rampage” Jackson…”

What abouth Anderson Silva? He hasn’t suffered a lost yet in UFC, unlike Henderson and Jackson. Or is he not considered a PRIDE fighter or diredtly from PRIDE because his last few fights before entering the UFC were in ROTR and Cage Rage. Your caveats.

By: Cathedron

Cathedron — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:37:32 +0000

Tyler: Some guys are given more favorable matchups (Bisping, Huerta, and Vera had it too easy for too long), but I disagree that Jackson, Silva, or Hendo had better matchups than any other Pride stars. You specifically said those three had better matchups and I can’t understand that argument considering that they all had title fights within two fights and Hendo lost twice in a row. I’m a little confused by what your point is there.

I’ll give you Sokoudjou being fed to the wolves, but even Tito Ortiz looked better against Machida. And that really says something.
Everyone thought Herring would beat O’Brien easily.
Everyone thought Herring would either beat Lesnar easily or give Lesnar an extremely tough fight.
Everyone thought Nog would be worse for Mir than his motorcycle accident.
Everyone thought Cro Cop could walk through Gonzaga.
Werdum should have been able to submit everyone he faced, but has looked bad against everyone even when he beat the sucktastic Vera.
Kang dominated Belcher, but made a dumb mistake and lost.

These were NOT bad matchups and I KNOW that none of the Pride fanboys THOUGHT they were bad matchups BEFORE the fights happened. All were either fair or supposed to be easy wins for the Pride fighters. The Pride guys just failed to perform and now the excuses are flowing freely.

The Pride guys are usually veterans with 20 or 30 fights on their records. In addition, they can throw fireballs, fly, regrow lost limbs, and are worshipped as gods in lesser developed countries. Yet, they are just ordinary fighters in the UFC. How odd. I remember watching Sokoudjou get schooled by Machida and I’m yelling at the TV, “Hover in the air and shoot lightning at him! You fought in Pride. You can do that!”

It’s not a curse, it’s not bad matchmaking, it’s hype meeting reality. Reality is winning.

By: Davey D

Davey D — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:54:10 +0000

At the end of the day. The game is just played different in Japan. The rules, length of round’s, matchmaking, the suspected use of steriod’s being allowed, the ring, ref’s being employed by said org. Everything. Pride FC was great and was the summit of MMA for year’s. It was a great event to watch and sadly, the org itself was shady inside & out. Ask Mr. White why they purchased Pride FC…to kill their competition of course. $57 Millon US is all it took. Either way, people still find a way to complain about the UFC’s current event’s. This is why Zuffa work’s harder than anyone else.

By: mark

mark — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:23:17 +0000

LETS NOT FORGET RAMPAGE WON HIS FIRST FIGHT IN THE UFC AND WON HIS FIRST TITLE SHOT AGAINST THE ICEMAN IN THE UFC,SO NO EXCUSESS FIGHTERS R FIGHTERS AND ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN, THE TITLE IS MOVING(LHW) AROUND TO EASY. AT THAT WEIGHT IT TAKES ONE PUNCH

By: Rich S.

Rich S. — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:09:41 +0000

I thought Kang was going to come in and brutalize Belcher. Don’t get me wrong, i think Belcher’s a great fighter, but Kang’s fights in Japan were all the evidence i needed to make that assumption..

It’s clear that, for whatever reason, these guys have problems in the cage, or the UFC, or whatever..

I mean, these guys absolutely SHINE in Japan, and then go on to have devistating losses and lackluster wins in the UFC..

I don’t get it..

Rampage is the only one i can think of right now that has showed VAST improvement since his move to the UFC..
of course you have A.Silva and Nog, who both became champs..
But that’s really it..

And to think, the argument used to be: “The UFC guys would NEVER cut it with the PRIDE guys”

By: Tyler

Tyler — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 20:56:36 +0000

“Cathedron” I’ll give you an example Herring beats Kongo. Herring’s next fight is against Lesnar and he’s handled. Kongo’s next two fights are Dan Evenson and Mustapha Al-Turk who both he beats easily. Now people think Herring should be out of the UFC and Kongo is thought of as a contender even though when they fought Herring beat Kongot. In Sokoudjou’s case he opened in the UFC against Machida who no one can beat. Then beat Nakamura and then lost to Cane who is a stud. Meanwhile a guy like Brandon Vera is given fights with Reese Andy and now Mike Patt to get wins.That’s what I mean by match ups. If you don’t think in those cases certain guys are given favorable match ups against lesser fighters to get wins then I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

By: mark

mark — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 20:52:41 +0000

UFC.IS WHERE ITS REALLY AT,ALL THOSE FROM PRIDE TO THE UFC WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD OF MMA, STEP UP UR GAME,PERIOD

By: Cathedron

Cathedron — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 20:43:48 +0000

Silva and Jackson both left Pride and fought in much, much smaller promotions before being picked up by the UFC. Neither has had much good to say about Pride.

By: Cathedron

Cathedron — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 20:36:59 +0000

Tyler: I might be misunderstanding you, but are you saying Hendo, Silva, and Jackson weren’t given tough fights? All three of them were fighting for a title within two fights. In Hendo’s case, his first two were for titles. Herring got an easy as hell first fight and failed miserably. If he really can’t wrestle, he shouldn’t be in the UFC in the first place (though I say his wrestling is his strongest skill, he just prefers to bang for some reason). The one-dimensional Sokoudjou got FINISHED by Machida. Finished. By. Machida. Think about that. That’s just embarassing. Getting out-pointed is to be expected, but Machida has allergic reactions to finishing an opponent. If Machida finishes you, you just might suck.

I don’t think it’s about matchups. There just aren’t any easy fights in the UFC unlike Pride where they would bring in old ladies in wheelchairs to fight their most colorful fighters. You have to have a good gameplan coming in to every fight. In Pride, you often didn’t even know who you’d be fighting next. These guys need to start making adjustments and fast. Gameplanning is the single most important aspect of modern MMA. I’m not seeing that with the majority of ex-Pride fighters.

As for the article: Pride was usually entertaining, but it was also a badly run promotion that was a step away from being prowrestling. They grossly overhyped their stars and did some very shady things to keep them on top. It’s no surprise that when given genuine competition on a consistent basis, most Pride stars can’t live up to the hype.

It’s not a curse. It’s Pride’s hype getting faced with cold, hard reality. The UFC is the deep end of the pool: sink or swim.