“Vaselinegate” shouldn’t become a dead issue

There’s a lot I do not know about the alleged infractions committed by the corner of Georges St. Pierre. While I was at the event and I saw Nevada State Athletic Commission Executive Director Keith Kizer enter the cage to admonish St. Pierre’s corner and I’ve since seen footage of Phil Nurse rubbing St. Pierre’s chest and back between rounds, I have no way of determining if and or how much Vaseline was applied to the current UFC welterweight champion’s body.

You can test for drugs of abuse for a fight but it’s pretty hard to test for body lubricants. Whether or not St. Pierre had Vaseline on his body and whether it gave him a competitive advantage if he did is only something that St. Pierre and Penn can answer definitively. However, where there is smoke there’s fire and during his post-fight press conference, UFC President Dana White confirmed that there were some issues that a rose during the course of the fight.

Unlike White, I am not so quick to dismiss the the notion that even if St. Pierre was lubed up that it didn’t make a difference in the fight. I’m not arguing that St. Pierre isn’t the better fighter and fought the better fight but I don’t buy that if Vaseline was applied to the body that it didn’t make a difference. Penn spent a great deal of time on his back during the fight and utilized a high guard on multiple occasions. I’m the furthest thing from a professional fighter but I have spent an ample amount of time rolling and I can say with firsthand knowledge that if a bare shirted opponent’s back is slippery, it does make it a little more difficult to catch them in a triangle.

Would Penn have won if St. Pierre is guilty of the alleged infraction? Absolutely not. But that doesn’t mean that this incident should be swept under the rug. The fact that NSAC instructed St. Pierre’s corner to stop and that the alleged behavior reportedly continued is alarming. If the presiding athletic body tells a corner to stop doing something, the corner shouldn’t try and defy the commission. A repeat offense committed by a corner should result in a penalty of some kind because if people aren’t willing to abide by the commission’s rulings we then have what amounts to anarchy.

Another argument that I don’t buy is that St. Pierre is somehow not responsible for the actions of his corner. I don’t think for a second that he knowingly cheated and I believe it’s very possible that his corner applied Vaseline without his consent or willing involvement. However, if a fighter uses a supplement that contains steroids is it not the position of the commission that he’s still guilty whether he knowingly consumed the performance enhancing drugs because of the fact that he still had a competitive advantage? If St. Pierre’s corner applied Vaseline to his body then he still potentially had an illegal competitive advantage regardless of whether the application was voluntary or involuntary.

I just can’t buy into a fighter being able to absolve himself totally from the actions of his corner. Phil Nurse was St. Pierre’s designated corner and not some random inspector assigned by the commission before the fight. He was a part of St. Pierre’s team and his actions are representative of the entire camp. St. Pierre has complete and total control over who corners him and he must take responsible for their actions. If Nurse applied lubrication of any kind to the body of St. Pierre then his days of cornering fighters should come to a close. Furthermore, if Nurse committed a second offense during the fight after being admonished by the commission then St. Pierre should have been penalized a point during the fight. What’s done is done and it’s impossible to go back in time and take away a point but to openly defy the commission in public in such a manner should warrant a severe reprimand.

I’ve read the side of St. Pierre’s corner regarding the allegiations and frankly I’m not impressed. In an interview with MMA Weekly, Greg Jackson claims that it was an honest mistake and attributed to a witch doctor ritual.

“So in between rounds, (Steven Friend) had this little drill that you do – and Phil Nurse is the one who knows how to do it – he showed Phil, and this is what Georges wanted, so we did that,” Jackson is quoted as telling MMA Weekly. “But this is why we were doing it. He rubbed your back and tapped your chest; I don’t know exactly how it works. But anyways, what that’s supposed to do is get your energy in line, or motivated or whatever. So in between rounds, we had Phil Nurse do that.”

In the same article, Jackson acknowledged the possibility that Nurse might have still had some residue left on his hands as he was also the same corner in charge of applying Vaseline to St. Pierre’s eyebrows (an acceptable practice in fighting so long as the application is not deemed to be excessive). I can buy that it’s an innocent mistake but it still potentially may have given St. Pierre an illegal competitive advantage. It was unnecessary and it only served to take away from what otherwise was a brilliant victory for St. Pierre. On that note, I think it’s time for all of these crazy rituals performed by members of the Jackson camp to end. I have a ton of respect for Jackson and his fighters but the nipple tweaking and witch doctor rituals only serve to take away from all of the great things that the camp has accomplished inside the cage.

94 COMMENTS
  • Joseph says:

    Nice write up Sam.

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  • john says:

    i am getting sick of all this shit overshadowing a truly dominant showing by gsp, first its the eyepoke, which if you slow it down and watch that first fight, it was the finger whole of the glove that poked gsp not a finger, and now vaseline, do we have to see gsp – penn 3, i dont think so

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  • Jim says:

    Oh, geez. Sam, you’re a talented writer. Please don’t let this become known as vaseline-gate. Watergate was not about water. It’s not a logical naming system.

    That aside, I totally agree with you — St. Pierre is the one in charge of what his corner does, he should be held responsible. It’s his name out there, his body on the line, and he’s the one employing the corner men. You’re responsible for your employees, and that’s how it goes.

    This definitely shouldn’t be swept under the rug. Penn was using rubber guard in the second round and St. Pierre just pulled up and out of it several times. Rubber guard looks like it uses the foot and hand to apply pressure to the middle of the back between the shoulders, right where the Vaseline was being applied, however lightly. I have no idea how much it might affect it, but this isn’t good at all.

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  • Max says:

    In the videos that I saw, the area that Phil Nurse is very clearly applying pressure to (rather than wiping) is the upper center of the trap, just below the neck. I didn’t see him rub his shoulders or any other that would make made any difference in Penn’s high guard, which he used maybe twice.

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  • Jay K. says:

    I politely disagree with Sam as I don’t feel that it was as significantly an issue as it is being made out to be. GSP was the better man Sat. night and I don’t feel that the issue in question should overshadow an excellent fight by both participants.

    Going forward though, The UFC and respective state commissions should be both aggressive and observant enough to stop a fight until any questionable vaseline application is remotely questioned.

    Jay K.

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  • Jay K. says:

    FWIW, I didn’t have any wager on any of the fights and was pulling for GSP to win, but would’ve been equally pleased if BJ Penn won as well.

    Jay K.

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  • Amir K says:

    Let the gsp hatters hate we all know that gsp put on a sick display of mma i would love to see them fight again so gsp could give penn another mma lesson

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  • flyingogoplata says:

    I’ve watched what actually happened between rounds numerous times after hearing this and I have serious doubts as to whether any vaseline was ever applied to GSP’s back, etc.

    Nurse applies the Vaseline to GSP’s face (as is allowed). He has the Vaseline on the back of his left hand and is using his right to apply it. After he applies the Vaseline, he then rubs GSP’s temples for a couple of seconds and only then puts his right hand(the hand that may have some residual Vaseline on it) on GSP’s chest while rubbing his upper back with the palm of his left hand.

    He didn’t put any more vaseline on his fingers after applying it to GSP’s face.

    And, the Athletic Commisioner was in the Octagon at the time with a towel and wiped GSP’s back before the 2nd round began. This means the commision was aware of the potential situation, rectified it and deemed GSP ready to fight.

    Frankly this is a lot of whining about nothing. Think about this…

    You have vaseline applied to your face and secure a takedown. Your face is rubbing your opponent’s upper body arguably transferring Vaseline there. Do you hear fighters complaining about this? Of course not. BJ just can’t accept defeat graciously.

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  • mikegspfan says:

    after all those submission attempts bj would be just as slippery as gsp – it would have rubbed off on his legs and arms. Yet gsp was able to grab bj’s legs and take him down at will.

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  • tony vu says:

    Max, watch the replay again. Friend rubs GSP’s Shoulders right before moving onto the back.

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  • screwface says:

    either way im kinda dispointed in this whole mess. i knew gsp would win, and penn has no business in that weight class right now but dam. this is a big thing, and putting myself into danas shoes, he has no choice but to sweep this under the rug. and thats a shame, i want csi brought in and a full investigation :p

    vaseline makes a big difference, and i thought it was really weird how penn couldnt keep the guard hes famous for. maybe he was just outmatched, but now theres the question. what if ? and thats what sucks. good article sam, i share ur views on this 1.

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  • Eric says:

    Nice article. I do have to disagree with you on one point though. I do not think there is any problem with a fighter tweaking his nipples or taking part in a with docter ritual, wholistic massage or anything else before a fight or in between rounds, this is not the issue. There are many papers written on the psycological benefit of ritual in sports to the athlete, and if this somehow makes George feel better or more comfortable then so be it. However I do believe there s a fundamental flaw in logic within Pierres camp if you do assign someone to do these massages and assign the same exact person to apply vaseline in between the rounds as well. It just seems obvious that this person would possibly have residue of vaseline on his hands and should not be allowed to touch other parts of the fighter. Now maybe this was just an oversight on his camps part and I also do not think that it was a plan or premeditated by Georges or his camp. However it can not be allowed to happen ever again and I do agree that som action needs to be taken by the athletic comission. I also agree that Georges would have won the fight anyway and it’s a shame that there is this cloud hanging over his win.

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  • mikegspfan says:

    Re: flyinggogoplata

    Good for you, I agree totally. I have made this point many times since last night, however there are alot of bj whinners on some of these forums, who either can’t read or just want to believe as bj probably does – that bj should have won.

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  • Lord Faust says:

    If this is so important, then how come we don’t hear guys complaining about the facial vaseline? If it’s such a huge deal, would we see so many guillotine and rear-naked chokes?

    flyinggogoplata put things nicely into perspective I think.

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  • rene levesque says:

    This wasnt a big deal…one touch on the back.
    They werent smearing the lube all over.
    Still, even a dab on the back could still make it easier to slip out.
    Why dont they just have the cut men do the vaselinet between rounds as well?
    The guys are there getting paid, theyre already there… make use of them.

    However, I find it ironic that the blogosphere wet all over itself like an incontinent puppy when Jared Shaw freaked out at the side of the ring when his meal ticket went Poof! and Joe Silva does the same, its ‘hahaha’ funny, who cares.

    Shoukdnt the UFC matchmaker be more neutral?
    (I dont even know what douchebag Shaw’s role was in EliteXC)

    Same strokes, different folks: different results.

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  • Jeremy says:

    Sam,
    The Witch Doctor has been used by Couture, Sylvia, Sherk, GSP, Evans, Hughes and even Dana.

    Steven Friend is well respected by many in MMA.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • Imbecile says:

    Who exactly a trying to bury this? Dana White addressed it. The commission addressed it inside the octagon, and will further if they fell it is necessary. If they don’t, perhaps it is because you are making a bigger deal of it then it really is without full knowledge of the facts. Reading this after having read your Random Rants on the event, which was full of lamentations about Penn and few congratulations for GSP, I think this is more motivated by who won, and how dominant they were over your favorite fighter.

    @flyinggogoplata – thank you for presenting a much more fact-based analysis than anything in the piece above. I rewatched the fight and, from what I can see, your argument seems to be backed up by the footage available. Nice work on helping to provide evidence in a pseudo-scandal where reporters don’t seem concerned with doing any actual collection of facts themselves, and write purely on emotion, as evidenced above.

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  • Imbecile says:

    sorry for my misspellings above – writing on a blackberry.

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  • the myth says:

    WAAAAAAAAAAA! WAAAAAAAAAAAA! – GSP could have been covered in sand paper and he still would have distroyed BJ – this is mma, if you were not effective on the ground try something else – a true champion is measured be how he handles his looses and much as his wins – BJ, YOU LOST shake hands move on and do what you call “preparation” for Kenny Florian

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  • kdawg says:

    @ Lord Faust

    Being slippery typically makes it easier to sink in chokes.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • Chuck says:

    I agree with a majority of the posters here Sam. I expected a fair and researched commentary from you regarding this issue. Your tone reeks of sour grapes and likens you to an old man shaking his stick at some teenagers on the street.

    Yes, this issue should not be ignored. Yes, it needs to be addressed. Yes, this situation can serve as a learning experience to ensure that commissions shore up their procedures to ensure that mistakes or, I don’t believe in this case, legitimate cheating.

    While Greg Jackson comes across slightly confusing with his explanation the “witch doctor” ritual is actually a holistic acupressure treatment. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a cornerman applying this technique or doing any massage oriented treatments to help with lactic acid buildup. Were Phil Nurse’s hands completely devoid of vaseline? Probably not but I tend to think that, as Greg Jackson pointed out, it would be absurd to blatantly attempt to cheat in view of the commission standing on either side of GSP. As well, if they were going to cheat and apply enough grease to make a difference- there would be no question as to what the cornerman is doing.

    With regard to the “nipple tweaking”. Get over it Sam. Who cares? There are tons of silly rituals that sports stars and teams do in all levels. Stop waiving your cane old man…..

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  • lalo_g80 says:

    Get over it. The NSAC is the governing body. They put a stop to it. Once GSP’s corner explained what happened they left it at that and saw no wrongdoing.

    The only thing I agree about this article is that it is GSP’s fault if one of his cornermen do decide to cheat. HOWEVER, the NSAC felt they really weren’t cheating and no one was penalized should tell you that it was more of a misunderstanding than anything.

    As for Team Jackson’s rituals… sorry to say this but they are NONE of your business Sam. If you don’t like them simply don’t turn your eyes in that direction.

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  • Milko says:

    I think this all vaseline story is stupid!He didn’t rub his back with vaseline.
    I watched the fight over and over again.
    BJ Penn is sore loser. He allways had some excuses but this is pathetic.
    I love Greg Jackson and his camp.
    Actually GSP,Karo.Nate Marquardt and Jardine and allmost all gays from his camp are my favourite fighters,And the reason i love them is all that rituals and their inside jokes are funny.So i really can’t see reason why would anybody have any problems with that.it’s not like they are mocking their oponents( like BJ did ).
    I will take “nipple twist” any time over BJ talking s**t or licking blood from his hands.

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  • DUMBOUT! says:

    Get over it! This isnt a conspiracy to put a dab of lube on his back. People making way too much of this. This SHOULD be a dead issue…
    Get off of Penn’s nuts/

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • ACK! says:

    I agree completely, Sam.

    Obviously none of us can verify whether these accusations are legit and to what extent. Neither can any of us properly quantify the ramifications, if they prove true. But the sport, it’s fighters and fans all deserve a proper investigation because the issue at question–greasing–is a serious offense that undermines the skill and technique that MMA demands.

    In fact, I’d argue that in MMA it’s a more severe and fundamental form of cheating than juicing or anything that significantly alters the body’s chemistry because it directly affects the outcome of a fight. I guess the simplest way to explain it is that greasing undermines the integrity of the sport while juicing undermines the integrity of humanity.

    So while we’re waiting for all the facts to surface no one should dismiss the severity of the alleged offense nor the culpability of GSP and his corner if found guilty.

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  • Guy Gaduois says:

    Shouldn’t the lube have helped Penn escape better? He was wearing GSP like a big, angry sweater.
    If it would help one guy escape a submission possibility, shouldn’t it help the other guy do the same?

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  • Brandon says:

    I think the situation is being over blown… the vaseline did not help GSP to jab away, easily take down BJ Penn and easily pass his guard.

    This wasn’t a greasing situation like Akiyama / Sakuraba where the man was fully greased…

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  • lalo_g80 says:

    Its IS a dead issue. They dont have to launch a Mitchell report wether GSP was greasing or not. The NSAC was right on top of it DURING the fight. What more is there to investigate? If the NSAC would have thought he was greasing the they would have briefly stop the fight and deduct a point from GSP.

    He wasn’t greasing. Get over it. Penn is a legend in the sport. Lets not diminish his accomplishments over this. He got beat by a better opponent. Thats it. Fair and square.

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  • JohnnyRev says:

    bottom line cheating is cheating …GSP was lubed like a porn star …head to toe. I have seen photos of grease hanging from his eye lids .The sad part is that GSP did dominate the fight. The grease did not have to be used in order to win in my opinion, so why use it then ? Unless he needs it to win ? Would that have made it possible for BJ to get out from bottom ??? I don’t think so , but we don’t know do we? cause we cant in all certainty say that it didn’t help ? GSP and Jackson should know better , and for the corner to continue is crazy. In my opinion the NSAC needs to with hold a good portion of GSP’s pay. The same as if it was a steroids issue …cheating is cheating and clearly they cheated and continued even after being directly told not to ! This is blatant disrespect to the UFC, NSAC, and the sport of MMA

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  • bcolflesh says:

    Something to remember here – at that level, heck even most amateurs, are “greasing” – it used to be Ben Gay, which was very noticeable, but now everyone can use the unscented clones – it’s worked into the fighter earlier in the day after a sweat, then you cool down and it’s absorbed – undetectable at the pre-fight check, but after a hard round, your sweat is an oil slick.

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  • Chuck says:

    JohnnyRev

    “GSP was lubed like a porn star …head to toe. I have seen photos of grease hanging from his eye lids”

    Come on. Don’t be ridiculous. Watch the fight and the GIF’s. You could argue a tiny bit of vaseline made it onto GSP’s traps, shoulders, and between his shoulder blades (although he was wiped with towels after each round by the commission).

    The fighters are checked for greasing agents before they even start.

    There was no head to toe greasing going on. The vaseline on the face is allowed. Don’t start false rumors.

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  • Edible DNA says:

    ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz….guess what? BJ Penn got his ass handed to him. BJ Penn has no business fighting at 170 lbs. He’s 1-3 at 170lbs. He’s a good fighter at 155 lbs. End of story.

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  • rob says:

    They should employ replay like the NFL. Penn’s corner could throw a little red flag. Herb Dean would then check the video footage to determine if vasoline was applied. Of course he would spend a good five minutes checking every angle while the fighters waited and then determine if GSP should have been penalized.
    The UFC should actually break down and inspect every punch, kick and aspect of the fight to determine if they were illegal. Imagine how exciting that would be. The fight might take an hour to finish but at least the decision would be correct.
    We should delve a little deeper into this vaseline thing, it’s sooo compelling.

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  • Echolocating says:

    The massaging of the back and shoulders was a bit suspect, but it didn’t look blatant. They should follow up on this, but I don’t think anyone needs to be condemned. I just hope they thoroughly review the situation and come up with some solid rules to avoid another scenario like this again.

    I mean, what was stopping the commission guys from calling a time-out and toweling Georges off and keeping Phil Nurse from entering the cage again for the remainder of the fight?

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  • Ryan says:

    Rene, Joe Silva was not pulling a Jared Shaw. He was cheering because Jones pulled off a spinning elbow that was badass. He does that crap ALL the time. If you actually look at Silva, it’s clear he’s not yelling “no” or “back of the head” or any such crap, he’s just excited.

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  • Cheater says:

    Greasemonkey St. Pierre, now and forever.

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  • Vic says:

    Ridiculous article! One more like this and I am taking this site off my favorites list. You probably still complain about the tuck rule, Wayne Gretzky’s high stick and Memphis miracle being a forward pass. Get over it! Why so much love for BJ Penn? He is a classless ass.

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  • mikegspfan says:

    Johnnyrev – you obviously know nothing about mma – vaseline is always put on the eyebrows and face – pay attention.
    I agree this is a dead issue and this article is foolish.

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  • robthom says:

    “…and I believe it’s very possible that his corner applied Vaseline without his consent or willing involvement.”

    Tell us how you really feel!

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  • Noah says:

    It looks like there isn’t much middle ground on this one. I guess I’ll pick my side. GSP won, he didn’t cheat. Normally, this site is the most journalistic, I’ve come to expect a certain objectivity. This article does not meet those standards, I think the whole situation has been sensationalized and this article is only adding to the fire.

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  • Scott says:

    The vaseline argument is ridiculous.

    BJ’s high guard didn’t work because GSP knew how to counter it. Also not that GSPs shoulders and lats are much wider than his waist…high guards are going to slip down people.

    Any vaseline applied was trace and/or unintentional, and it certainly didn’t influence the outcome of the fight.

    BJ’s antics throughout this affair have been laughable, and his refusal to simply accept defeat makes him a pathetic hypocritical sore loser.

    It was a monster performance by a true athlete.

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  • Sergio Hernandez says:

    “On that note, I think it’s time for all of these crazy rituals performed by members of the Jackson camp to end. I have a ton of respect for Jackson and his fighters but the nipple tweaking and witch doctor rituals only serve to take away from all of the great things that the camp has accomplished inside the cage.”

    Crazy? Really?

    It really takes away from a well-written article (albeit unecessary IMO) when you end it with that nonsense.

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  • Broncos1998 says:

    We all like caplan, but this is a little much.

    Don’t you think that if GSP and his corner wanted to cheat they would have taken steps to be discrete about it? It is obvious from the video that this was inadvertant.

    If cheating was intended, they would have put vaseline on a towel and then used the towel to wipe his back and shoulders.

    This is much ado about nothing.

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  • traingleman says:

    Bottom line cut and dry, rules are in place for a reason!!!! So no one has an unfair advantage and there is a level playing field! I agree GSP is better and dominated him BUT if NSAC has to tell them that they are doing something illegal twice!!! That is a joke! Cornerman should be banned from contact w any fighters while fights are in progress and GSP should be fined 10 percent of his purse! And no I don’t want to see gsp penn 3!

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  • Kyle says:

    I agree one hundred percent.

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  • mike says:

    wow sam, nice try. and i see that alot of bj penn fans came on here to cry because their “prodigy” is not half the fighter that gsp is. a mistake was made, yes, by the cornerman and not gsp who looked like he was in a zone or meditating. to say that this in any way was gsp’s fault is just looking for something to defend this alleged “prodigy”. what an onslaught. gsp is a gentleman and a fair fighter, maybe you should try to have a fair outlook on this sam. yes, the cornerman should be fined and/or susupended but to say that this in any way affected the &^*kicking that was administered is short of ridiculous. can’t wait to see how penn trash talks florian and then gets sent into retirement shortly after.

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  • tom cruise says:

    if it was trace amounts it would have never drawn the attention of the comission Twice to the point they kicked the vasaline out of the cage

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  • fightfan says:

    SO, SO, SO sick of hearing about this…

    IF, Phil Nurse had a tiny bit of residual vaseline on his hands and they touched GSP’s back and shoulders. ………Keith Kizer said that after round 2 and round 3 “GSP was wiped down hard”.

    So if a tiny, tiny bit of resiudal vaseline made it to some part of GSP’s back……It was wiped off and from Keith Kizer’s mouth(via mmajunkie interview) it was wiped off VERY hard. He said GSP was wiped down VERY HARD.

    Imagine putting some vasiline on your hand , where cutmen, trainers do. Use it put on someone’s face. The tiny, tiny bit that is left makes contact with the back.. The COMMISSION uses a towel and wipes down the back VERY HARD……How can the tiny, tiny amount, IF ANY, even be detectable in microscopable amounts….SIMPLY IT IS NOT…it is a way for Penn to have an excuse for the ass beating he recieved.

    I was a big Bj Penn fan……But before the fight and now afterwards I lost a lot of respect in him

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  • JollyDV says:

    BJ posted on his Facebook this afternoon. He said, “GSP was a bit greased up but that takes nothin away from him at all he was the better guy!”

    He then goes on and says he is fighting Kenflo for sure, probably sometime in June.

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  • pr0cs says:

    The rules need to be revised so they’re less ambiguous.
    The way they stand right now there is nothing in there stating that you can’t have vasoline rubbed on.. only that it can’t be excessive.
    What exactly does excessive mean.

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  • Dan Omega says:

    they will stop a fight for the slightest matter that may alter the outcome of the fight; they are octagon-side, right there, watching —- it was the “biggest fight in UFC history”, so they would do EVERYthing in their power to make sure nothing happened to call it into question……. even the mistake of hooking BJ’s shorts was brought to attention & a warning given (aside from BJ literally ‘yelling’ / near screaming about it) — if GSP’s back was “lubed up”, BJ would notice (for CERTAIN) & they would raise hell — but they didn’t until after he was decimated and embarassed by such a monumental loss.

    AS WELL ::: no one seems to note the fact that BJ was holding onto the cage & wasn’t warned.

    i’ve also heard BJ’s camps stories about how they “saw it” being done — yet they did nothing……. even though BJ literally cried out for GSP inadvertently grabbing his shorts briefly. there was AMPLE opportunity during the fight (esp. with every move being monitored) to do something during the fight if something was truly warranted.

    Georges simply out-classed him in every regard.

    he could do NOTHING against GSP’s take-downs. NOTHING. again & again & again & again. GSP altered his technique & varied it so much on the ground that Penn couldn’t react well enough & put something together.

    GSP overpowerd Penn monumentally & drained his strength & energy early on —– which was specifically part of his strategy —- & he accomplished it perfectly. the 1st attempted take-down wasn’t even really for the purpose of taking him down — it was to tire out his legs somewhat, get his heart pumping, demanding more oxygen, to put him off-balance in more ways than one. & he DID that. he moved on with the next part of their strategy……. and so on………

    when a fighter is sweating profusely, it’s not just sweat but huge amounts of body oils that are secreted as well…… & that alone is SLIPPERY like butter !!!! he couldn’t get his legs around GSP because GSP was literally ALL OVER THE PLACE !!!! he was quick, powerful & extremely forceful & controlling.

    he broke BJ’s will ——- & BJ wasn’t used to that at all !!

    BJ put a huge amount of pressure on himself because of his blatant disrespect for Georges at every given opportunity —– & no, it wasn’t just “hyping” the fight —- he was DISRESPECTFUL —- & , i daresay, dishonourable in his behaviour toward Georges — a proven, honourable, respectful champion. it really looked like he was doubting himself when it all came down to the moment.

    & i think GSP is SO much of a champion that he would actually fight him again just to take away any doubt —- & would obliterate him again.

    Penn was simply out-classed & out-strategized…. & really underestimated GSP.

    even pro fighters who are feared in their own right say of GSP that people just don’t realize how strong, powerful & explosive Georges is.

    he did not allow BJ to fight his fight. BJ fought GSP’s fight.

    & that was GSP’s plan.

    QUESTION :::::: so when a fighter is covered in sweat, body oils, & blood during a round & an opponent has difficulty with that —– should the fight be stopped or called ???

    there was AMPLE opportunity to stop the fight & wipe off any possible small amount of vaseline that may have stayed on his very upper torso.

    CONCLUDING THOUGHT : if Round 5 had been permitted to occur — i think GSP would have inflicted permanent damage on Penn. Penn’s spirit was broken. you could see it written all over his face & his body language. completely. absolutely.

    no small amount of vaseline on the very upper torso can do that.

    & small at the most —- there is only so much vaseline they can apply to the face in the first place, as referenced in the article above.

    GSP conquered —- yes, conquered — Penn thoroughly.

    & he would do it again if given the chance.
    he is the better fighter & the weight class that he rules.

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  • fightfan says:

    This is as absurd as saying GSP helped BJ get an adavantage by putting vaseline on BJ’s back??

    How???

    GSP punches/jabs BJ. Now GSP’s glove have more VASLINE on them than did the trainer. The first clinch GSP rubbed more vasline on BJ’s back…That is about how silly this whole thing is

    Get over it. the commission WIPED down GSP “very hard” after rounds 2 and 3.

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  • Dan Omega says:

    YES —– that is the next LOGICAL point ( yes — LOGICAL, people !! )

    they would very, very quickly “share” that vaseline & Georges would have as much difficulty as BJ if it were an issue in any way, shape or form — beyond their bodies being absolutely glazed in each other’s sweat & body oils………

    it would be a problem for them both
    it’s not like the vaseline would TRANSFER to BJ alone & magically stay from contact with Georges’ !

    THINK about it !!!

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  • darkmetal says:

    Wow, I thought “Vasellinegate” was already taken by the Clinton Administration, along with “Bimbogate”, “Shreddergate”, “Chinagate”, and perhaps “Mastergate”;)

    I did see the incident on camera and thought it was a bit odd, but also looked closely to see just how shiny GSP was after the supposed application of Vaseline. Frankly, he didn’t seem too shiny at all.

    I think the only round where it seemed that BJ actually had a chance to secure any sort of hold was in round 1. After that, I think BJ himself could have been wearing a Gi and would not have been able to sub GSP. I think a fine is possible, but that should be about it.

    GSP dominated Penn in a way that no amount of Petroleum jelly could ever make possible….

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  • tim says:

    i thought this article must have been written by someone else. contradicting and reaching, this surely couldn’t be a caplan article. there’s only one instance that i can recall having the same reaction and that wasn’t very long ago. sam, you can do better work than this.

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  • Wang Chung says:

    yikes. this is the most retarded shit i’ve heard in years watching this sport. and frankly, some of your points, sam, are almost laughable. not only are you fabricating things (i’m sorry, but nowhere has it been reported, as far as i can tell, that gsp’s corner were warned and then ignored the warning), but you’re grasping at best. there’s literally no way to prove he was ‘greased’, and even if he was, according to kizer he was ‘wiped very, very hard’ after rd’s 2 AND 3 – the start of rd 3 had no contact with any part of his back, shoulders, or chest whatsoever. all in all, there may have been perhaps 5 minutes in the entire fight where st. pierre had a very small amount of vaseline on some of his shoulders or back, but considering the amount of vaseline put on fighters faces between rounds, not to mention that strikes and grappling inevitably spread it all over both fighters makes this issue really quite silly. i’m sure penn is pissed and obviously there needs to be some warnings, and maybe even displinary action taken, but the fact this is starting to generate a ‘cheating’ meme is pathetic and irresponsible.

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  • fightfan says:

    EXACTLY….

    1.) The amount of vaseline that may of been on GSP back or shoulders was

    A.) WIPED DOWN after round 2 and round 3. and as Keith Kizer said GSP was wiped down HARD just because he may of come in contact with a tiny, tiny drop of vaseline .

    the grappling, striking and exchanges beteween the 2 fighters cause MORE vaseline/oils to be spread ALL OVER BOTH fighters.

    This is getting so ridiculis that people are saying GSP greased his ENTIRE body

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  • fightfan says:

    Even if GSP was soaked and coated with vasline after rounds 2 and 3…….EVEN though he wasnt…..

    Keith Kizer of the athletic commission said that GSP was “WIPED down and wiped down VERY HARD” after rounds 2 and after round 3….

    The commission made sure that the fight was fair, PLAIN and SIMPLE

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  • Buzz says:

    After they disobeyed the second warning GSP should have been DQ`d. Sounds harsh but its a much bigger deal than most are making it even tho GSP probably had the fight won thats not the issue here.

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  • Grappo says:

    Guy Gaduois
    Shouldn’t the lube have helped Penn escape better? He was wearing GSP like a big, angry sweater.
    If it would help one guy escape a submission possibility, shouldn’t it help the other guy do the same?

    Not necessarily. In this case, the lube applied to GSP’s shoulders and back would have ended up on the back of BJ’s legs, and possibly affected his ability to hold the rubber guard, as well as work some submissions from his back, as GSP could have been able to just power through them. Grease transferred to BJ’s legs would not have helped him escape from the bottom easier. I think it would make it more difficult. If it was on his torso, that’s a different story.

    Edible DNA
    ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz….guess what? BJ Penn got his ass handed to him. BJ Penn has no business fighting at 170 lbs. He’s 1-3 at 170lbs. He’s a good fighter at 155 lbs. End of story.

    What has that got to do with the issue at hand? Did anyone say differently? I just singled out your post because it sums up the position of the many who seem to miss the point entirely.

    I’m probably a bigger fan of GSP than I am of BJ (now. I can’t root for a guy who doesn’t take his training seriously. It makes me sick honestly) but this isn’t about who I am a fan of. It’s about getting to the bottom of a serious allegation, and making sure that they make sure it doesn’t happen again in any future fights. That can only be good for the sport, and for any of us that want to watch fair fights.

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  • Q says:

    I don’t see anything wrong with sports rituals.

    As for the vaseline thing, I just put some on my arm and wiped it off with a towel. There is no trace of it left. Hell, if I were to wipe sweat off it would just come back, and sweat is more slippery than vaseline, especially when you are drenched in it.

    Sorry Sam, I love your articles for the most part, but I believe this one is a miss.

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  • DamonO says:

    Even if there was enough lube on GSP’s back or shoulders to cause slipperyness then that could have easily helped Penn just as much as GSP. In rubber guard it would have made it easier for Penn to slide his leg up onto the back of GSP’s neck. Of course if GSP postures up, which he did many times, it goes in favor of GSP and the leg slides back down.

    Unfortunately I have not been able to watch the fight again as I ordered them at someone else’s house 4 hours away. I did find it unusual that GSP was able to slide Penn’s legs back down easily and also his watering his head in between rounds but there are counters to that as well. When guys get sweaty, which GSP and Penn are always in fast paced fights, things tend to get a little slippery regardless. Also, it’s normal for a fighter to water his head in between rounds to cool himself down.

    If I was a Penn lover I would probably be typing a much different story here but I’m not. It’s kind of like when a ref makes the right call on a play in football but it’s in favor of the other team, you still get pissed. And when a ref calls a play in favor of your team but should honestly go to the opposing team, you are happy. I don’t know if that’s a good enough example considering this particular situation, but it sounds good to me right now.

    I’m glad GSP won and if for some reason there is significant enough evidence that he did cheat then there should be punishment to someone. He could very well not have known that his cornermen applied vaseline to his body. The dude is in a fight. He’s not thinking about what his cornermen are doing in between rounds. He’s strategizing in his head his next move in this war of two men. He’s thinking about what he should have done in the previous round as well.

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  • E. Spencer Kyte says:

    Sam: What’s wrong with the nipple tweaks? It’s something this came does to show unity and solidarity and they did it once. It’s not like they walk around tweaking the nipples every ten minutes or anything.

    As for the vaseline issue, it shouldn’t be that big of an issue. It was dealt with and had no bearing on GSP obliterating BJ on Saturday night.

    If there is to be any punishment, it should come in the shape of a fine and nothing else, as the Commission was right there, noted the infraction, stopped it and allowed the fight to go on. If it was something drastic, they would have stepped in harder I would imagine…

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  • dpk says:

    You see all the time where ref’s send guys back to their corner to get excess vasoline wiped off of their face after rounds, if the commission had that big of a problem with it, then GSP would have been sent back to his corner and wiped down with a towel. That being said, the corner man should have to go before the commission for a hearing on his actions. Let’s see if BJ wants an immediate rematch, so he can get viciously beaten for another 4 rounds (if it goes that far). This is just BJ’s people doing what they can to keep BJ’s ego in tact. He has always had an excuse when he lost, and that was that he never trained hard, well now he trained hard, and took the worst beating of his career. His people just need something to make sure he still believes in himself.

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  • Dr.Stoppage says:

    Maybe BJ couldn’t use the high guard effectively because GSP has a wide shoulder / lat area..wait….did I just say GSP has an awesome bod?
    Because that was not my intention.

    But GSP’s back is to wide for BJ to use the high guard effectively.
    BJ has short,stubby legs.

    GSP used his size,strength,and leverage to negate the high guard.
    I feel pretty sure this was one of the things he trained for.

    But whatever.
    It was a beautiful fight.
    Now let’s see both champs defend their divisions for a couple of fights.

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  • Grappo says:

    Maybe BJ couldn’t use the high guard effectively because GSP has a wide shoulder / lat area

    Maybe. But that’s the problem. There should be no maybe about it.

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  • Dr.Stoppage says:

    “Maybe. But that’s the problem. There should be no maybe about it.”

    Nor should there be ‘shoulds’.

    Personally, BJ got beat by a better fighter.
    Maybe the “Grease ” was wrong,but it was dealt with accordingly.
    But based on GSP’s shape ,and BJ’s legs,it was not a factor in the fight.
    BJ should have done better.
    Maybe GSP is just a greater fighter.

    Has BJ had any postfight interviews yet?
    I can’t find any.

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  • Ken says:

    I think it’s unnecessary to discuss this. Even if he lubed him up they are not going to do shit about it. Rookie mistake from a well respected veteran who should know better. BJ got his ass handed to him period. I’m out

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  • DAVE (formally Thorazine) says:

    WTF, SAm?? U wisely ad the word “IF” throughout your “LUBEGATE” article but I can’t help but read the undertone, it’s as if u really think GSP or his corner was cheating and that explains BJ’s totally destruction in the Octogon. I know, I know, cheating is totally dispicable among such high caliber athletes and I agree this shouldn’t entirely be swept under the rug. I haven’t watched the fight to see exactly what happened in GSP’s corner, but from what I heard it wasn’t rubbed all over his body. Also what’s to stop a fight rubbing on layers of lotion prefight, and when there’s prespiration later in the cage it will cause the fighter to be slippery, now how many fighters do that? Is it illegal?.. how would they stop it from happening? Lets hurry with the investigation and end this “LUBEGATE DEBATE” and get on with the FIGHT analysis and what comes next.

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  • htown-chris says:

    right out the gate gsp took over that fight. he controlled the whole first round. there was no reason for anyone in his corner to blatantly cheat or attemp to cheat. there was no reason for a desperation move like that. if anyone of gsps corner men gave the impression that they were attempting to cheat i dont believe it was intentional. im a huge bj penn fan and i hate that he lost. but he did. now all he has to do is accept it and go back to the drawing board and get ready for his 155 title defense. wt i believe happened was gsp caught him with that big right hand on the ground early and if you look at bj he almost appeared to have a flash ko. after that it seemed he wasnt in tha fight or the fight wasnt in him rather. gsp broke his spirit early and he never recovered.

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  • Grappo says:

    DAVE
    I can’t help but read the undertone, it’s as if u really think GSP or his corner was cheating and that explains BJ’s totally destruction in the Octogon.

    Caplan clearly says that St. Pierre was/is the better fighter at WW, and that vaseline didn’t change the outcome. I think anybody with any objectivity would admit that. It’s about fairness and principle. With the shape BJ was in, he had little to no chance to win that fight. Not to mention GSP is a beast.

    htown-chris
    right out the gate gsp took over that fight. he controlled the whole first round. there was no reason for anyone in his corner to blatantly cheat or attemp to cheat.

    I initially gave the 1st round to BJ, but after rewatching it just now, GSP did indeed win the round, though it wasn’t really that dominant. He didn’t “take over” he mainly just pressed the pace and had BJ up against the cage for most of the round while they both worked the clinch. GSP got the better of the few strikes but it’s not like, “Wow, GSP is tearing that guy up.” It was almost even. It looked like the start to a great fight, not the beginning of the suckfest that was to follow.

    I agree there was no reason for GSP’s corner to cheat. I don’t believe GSP or his corner would ever intentionally cheat. But then there are the conflicting stories. I don’t know for sure the specifics, like whether it happened again after the first warning, which is why there should be a more thorough investigation to clear up the multiple scenarios that I’ve heard so far.

    @ Dr. Stoppage – I’d like to know why you are so sure that GSP’s back is too wide, and BJ’s legs are too “stubby” to utilize a high guard or rubber guard effectively. If you are basing it on the fact that BJ couldn’t keep hold of them in this fight, then you’re hypothesizing based on evidence that’s questionable at this point in time.

    I haven’t seen any BJ post fight interviews either.

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  • Grappo says:

    I didn’t know that the greasing has been a mini-controversy with GSP before… I don’t really look on other sites, but now that I am, it seems other fighters have leveled similar accusations.

    Eeesh. I don’t know what to believe. Needs mo info.

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  • Dr.Stoppage says:

    Sorry Grappo,you lost me.

    Wipe that Vaseline off your fingers before typing,please.

    Regardless,I was pulling for GSP,and happy he won,but man,I was scared before the fight,because BJ is a great fighter as well.

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  • JJ Docker says:

    “I didn’t know that the greasing has been a mini-controversy with GSP before… I don’t really look on other sites, but now that I am, it seems other fighters have leveled similar accusations.
    Eeesh. I don’t know what to believe. Needs mo info.”

    @Grappo: Who and when? Give me “mo info”.

    and also “bottom line cheating is cheating …GSP was lubed like a porn star …head to toe. I have seen photos of grease hanging from his eye lids”

    - I’m not sure if you were joking or not but congratulations on me making me ‘lol’.

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  • Austin says:

    Sam. WALL OF TEXT ABOUT GSP POSSIBLY BEING A SLIPPERY FRO- I mean french canadian, IN THE OCTAGON. lol. By rounds 3-5 he would have been sweaty anyway. Lubrication + water = super slippery.
    But i see how this is potentially bad. Everyone, everyone, everyone said that if Penn would have won, it would have been by a sub earlier in the fight rather than GSP later in the fight. So not only would high and rubber guard be greatly hampered by this, but gsp on his back would have had something to help him slide under the preassure and wiggle to his hip to improve position.The best way to improve position is to shift to either hip and escape/roll.

    You know all of this. I think you are right. This is bad, no one should do it. All the GSP fans going “OMG SO WHAT” need to notice this. It should be stopped from ever happening again. Its bad for the sport if people are given any unfair advantage. Even if it wouldn’t have made a difference in some people’s eyes.

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  • Grappo says:

    “Sorry Grappo,you lost me. Wipe that Vaseline off your fingers before typing,please.”

    Why would you assume that BJ’s legs are too stubby to use rubber guard on GSP? That was the gist of my comment to you. You speak as though it’s a certainty.

    @ JJ

    An article on Fightlinker features a piece written by Jason Miller for Fight! magazine back in ’05 after his match with GSP @ UFC 52. He claimed St. Pierre was greased and that he said so to the ref. The same article mentions other fighters, but those are not really corroborated. Sherk and Serra I believe. If that’s accurate, then it’s 4 strong ground fighters that have claimed shenanigans. All sour grapes? They are certainly all big mouths.

    I still don’t believe GSP would knowingly cheat. Need mo accurate info.

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  • Eric says:

    I understand why people are looking for something to explain the domination but
    this is just not it. GSP won because he was the better fighter that night. Kru Phil Nurse is a multiple time world Muay Thai champion who is renowed for not only his skills as a fighter/coach but as a leading example of character. To question that they were trying to “cheat” is just a dead point. Don’t bother second guessing it, looking for a conspiracy, somene in the grassy knoll. He would never do it. Period, end of story.

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  • Big Shin says:

    Caplan, get your facts straight. Once Kizer was alerted of the issue and informed GSP’s corner – they stopped their actions. I don’t agree with their methods, but at least I’m not bias when informing others what happened. Try it sometime.

    Editor’s Note: “Big Shin,” it’s you that needs to get your facts in order. Read the interview we did with Keith Kizer — he clearly states that NSAC had to inform St. Pierre’s corner between the first and second and then again between the second and the third. This is the executive director of the commission who is quoted as telling us this. And the assertions being made here that I am somehow biased towards the Penn camp is a complete joke. I have no more allegiance to the B.J. Penn camp (which is none) than to the Georges St. Pierre camp. I am a fan of both fighters. I traveled to Las Vegas on my own dime to see them fighter each other as opposed to seeing one over the other. I’ve flown to see St. Pierre compete in Vegas on three occasions. This was the first time I saw Penn. I predicted Penn to win and placed a small wager for the fun of it but I have no bias that exists towards Penn or against St. Pierre. What I think is happening with many posts here is that a lot of you are making knee-jerk reaction posts and hitting the comment function before reading the entire article. There are also some of you accusing me of being biased when the reality is some of you are the ones who are biased towards St. Pierre and are conveniently ignoring facts. No one on the staff of this site is apologizing for B.J. Penn. Read all of my posts, I clearly state that St. Pierre was the better fighter and the Vaseline didn’t effect the ultimate outcome (although I do say I think it could have had an effect on the fight).

    Again, I am a fan of both Penn and St. Pierre. The baseless accusations of a bias need to stop. Argue the opinion expressed in the article on its merits and separate yourself from the emotional attachment to St. Pierre or don’t post.

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  • Dr.Stoppage says:

    Grappo,it’s my opinion after seeing the fight that the two fighters’ body types may have been a contributing factor as to why BJ couldn’t keep the high guard secure.
    By the way,do you happen to remember how BJ’s guard was in their first fight?

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  • Section 9 says:

    Like anything else, I think that there are 2 sides to the story of why the commission had to tell GSPs cornermen to to stop twice.

    Here’s a quote from Phil Nurse about his side of the issue courtesy of Sports Illustrated.

    “I was in the Octagon and they came in screaming: ‘On his face! On his face!’ I really didn’t know what they were saying,” Nurse said of NSAC inspectors. “I see it now. In the heat of the moment, I’ve got a minute to get in there, keep him calm, do my energy work on him, elevate his legs and then he listens to Greg. What they were screaming at me about, I didn’t know. Had they said ‘You’re putting Vaseline on his back’ it would have put two and two together.”

    At this point, I’m prepared to believe that this was more a case of bad judgment rather than a deliberate attempt to cheat. Should Phil be reprimanded for this and maybe receive some sort of punishment? I think so. He’s an experienced cornerman, and should know better, however I also think that this is being blown way out of proportion.

    As far as the body type making a difference to the ability to maintain a high guard, it’s something I’ve thought about in the past. I’m not a BJJ practitioner, so I can’t speak from any sort of personal experience, but it would seem to me that trying to maintain a high guard against someone like GSP, who literally has shoulders that are twice as wide as his hips, would be quite a bit more difficult than normal. Especially after both fighters have already gone a full round and are covered in sweat.

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  • Schwa says:

    This controversy is going to stick around with the hardcore fans same as their last split decision and the two disagreeing sides will never see eye to eye on the issue but the outcome of the fight won’t be changed so it doesn’t really matter what people or bloggers say. This will become a dead issue, the mainstream will soon forget about it.

    Everyone talks about how huge GSP vs Alves is but rarely does anyone bring up that Thiago Alves was overweight for the Hughes fight and didn’t tell Hughes so he had to cut all his weight and also was caught using diuretics help him cut weight a couple of years ago. To me the small amount GSP had put on him (before being wiped twice) would’ve affected the match about the same as when a fighter with poor BJJ repeatedly grabs the fence, just enough times to not get penalized, to prevent a good BJJ guy from getting top control. Another example could be Penn grabbing Hughes’ shorts to get back control in there second fight. Could it affect the out come of the fight? Possibly. Is it right? No. Will the commission review it after the fight and change the outcome? No.

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  • DAVE (formally Thorazine) says:

    GRAPPO & CAPLAN – “I’m not arguing that St. Pierre isn’t the better fighter and fought the better fight but I don’t buy that if Vaseline was applied to the body that it didn’t make a difference. ” “I’ve read the side of St. Pierre’s corner regarding the allegiations and frankly I’m not impressed.”

    Don’t get me wrong I appreciate the intelligent well written article and Grappo’s response to my post. However, I’m talking about the undertones here, maybe the article has more do with the thought of cheating than taking BJ’s side. I just felt that so much of what Sam wrote was a knee jerk reaction to the accusation of GSP’s cornermen cheating, much like Dana White’s intial reaction was. A short clip of the alleged incidents needs to be posted so we can see for our own eyes and scrutinize what exactly happened, until then I don’t believe it! I think what happened in the fight was just total destruction & domination and if Vaseline was applied to GSP’s back, the beating probably would have been worse!

    Editor’s Note: Dave, you keep referring to “undertones.” What are you talking about? I clearly state that improper conduct took place on the part of GSP’s corner. There was also not a knee jerk reaction. As far as video, that’s really a weak argument. You know we can’t post copyrighted material on this site but you also know there is plenty of video on the Internet right now that shows the actual infraction taking place. When you make a statement like “if Vaseline was applied to GSP’s back, the beating probably would have been worse,” you really kill your credibility.

    I think this is a case of people choosing not to see it because they can’t handle the truth. No matter how much the better fighter GSP is, no matter how much better he performed Saturday than Penn, no matter how big of a fan you are of the guy, what took place was wrong.

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  • snerf says:

    So you think the NSAC acted incorrectly? They should have stopped the fight because of the vaseline?

    Sam, this is a horrendous article that shifts the focus away from the brillant performance by GSP and also the absolutely dreadful, cowardly showing by BJ Penn.

    The lengths BJ Penn fans go to make up excuses for him is remarkable. The guy is 4-4 in the last 3 years, and also has an unremarkable overall record. The guy quit on his stool in a championship fight (I have still yet to hear what ‘mystery’ injury he suffered so that he is unable to come out for the fifth round). Yet even days after his embarrassing performance the guy is on the P4P lists.

    Editor’s Note: NOWHERE did I say the fight should have been stopped. Commenters in this thread MUST stop taking things I said out of context or twisting them to fit their own needs. Stop looking at this situation from an emotional attachment to St. Pierre and be fair. If you aren’t going to read the article in its entirety or feel a need to make things up, please do not comment.

    Second, I didn’t do anything to shift the focus away from GSP’s brilliant performance… his corner are the ones responsible for that.

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  • DAVE says:

    Editor’s Note: Dave, you keep referring to “undertones.” What are you talking about? I clearly state that improper conduct took place on the part of GSP’s corner. There was also not a knee jerk reaction. As far as video, that’s really a weak argument. You know we can’t post copyrighted material on this site but you also know there is plenty of video on the Internet right now that shows the actual infraction taking place. When you make a statement like “if Vaseline was applied to GSP’s back, the beating probably would have been worse,” you really kill your credibility.

    OK Sam, I have just viewed the video clip of the LUBEGATE incident with GSP and it looks bad. I can now see your viewpoint and understand you are not being biased when I re-read your article. If anyone hasn’t seen the Video of THE LUBEJOB, I RECOMMEND they do before they pass judgement that GSP’S corner is innocent and BJ is just sour about the lopsided loss. U still suck though Sam…lol.

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  • snerf says:

    Sam, if this had happened with lesser fighters on the non-televised undercard, would you be writing articles about it?

    Yes, Nurse and Jackson were stupid for their actions. However, the amount of vaseline actually applied to GSP’s back was insignificant and wiped off, even to the NSAC who ALLOWED the fight to continue. If there was significant vaseline on GSP the NSAC should have either halted the fight or disqualified GSP right there.

    So why is everyone just focusing on this point? Why no articles on how BJ acted like an ASS on the preview shows, how he clearly blew off his training, or how he was absolutely destroyed? Instead we get a succession of articles/excuses about vaseline or that Georges walks around at 185.

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  • Grappo says:

    snerf
    If there was significant vaseline on GSP the NSAC should have either halted the fight or disqualified GSP right there.

    Maybe they should have. The point of an investigation is to answer that and other questions. Even more reason to investigate if the corner continued to engage in the behavior after being reprimanded.

    Dr Stoppage
    By the way,do you happen to remember how BJ’s guard was in their first fight?

    Yeah, I’ve watched the fight a few times recently. BJ really didn’t utilize the high guard much. Just once in the 2nd round, and BJ only used it for a second before he stood up GSP didn’t fully pass his guard once. The closest he got was half guard at the very end of the fight when BJ was trying to land a submission. It seemed like BJ mostly kept his feet on GSP’s hips so he could push him off and escape, which he did pretty successfully. I don’t think he attempted rubber guard at all. So, his guard was very effective in that fight.

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  • Grappo says:

    woops, the last part shouldn’t be in quotes.

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  • JollyDV says:

    Snerf- Sam, if this had happened with lesser fighters on the non-televised undercard, would you be writing articles about it?

    I am not Sam, but if Joe Smo comes out to make his UFC debut against John Smith and 14,000 people in the arena watch Joe’s corner man apply Vaseline to his shoulders and back, then see a member of the athletic commission run into the octagon and reprimand the team, (Don’t forget the all the folks watching on PPV) is no different than this. It doesn’t matter who the fighters are, it matters what happened. No one wants to see anything tarnish this sport. Unfortunately, when you get caught cheating it is news.

    Editor’s Note: Jolly, you are 100% correct. If I saw it, I would definitely call it out whether it was in front of 100 fans or 100,000. The venue or size of stage has nothing to with it Snerf. Why would you even ask that question? What does whether it was a lesser fight or not have to do with the issue of what has been alleged? Even if I told you I wouldn’t have wrote about it if it had happened on the undercard, would that make what GSP’s corner did any less wrong?

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  • maddog says:

    GREAT ARTCLE SAM. I am a fan of both men and I hate cheaters. It is possible to like gsp and not like the fact he may have cheated. If had been lesnar greasing against couture we may not be seeing this BLIND RAGE type of defense. This is the only time I have ever heard of an official jumping into the ring and yelling at corner men. If the corner men applied Vaseline then gsp is responsible 100%. Fan is short for fanatic. Read all the comments and it is easy to see why we are called fans.

    Editor’s Note: Maddog, yes, it is indeed possible to like GSP yet still be outraged that his corner either intentionally or unintentionally violated the rules. I was a huge GSP fan before the fight and will continue to do so. He wasn’t the one applying the lubricant to his body.

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  • jean rancourt says:

    the NSAC was there …..they have the power to stop the fight anythime and act.so if someting s wrong….BLAME THEM…we just saw a better man that night….today BJ realise his lost …im canadian and i like GSP if he challenge A.Sylva…he will lose the same way BJ lost to him….AND one day A Sylva will lose the same way…..SO lets cry all together LOL…..BJ will be back ….he just need a bit of attention…..after all those emotions LOL…ACTUALLY…ALL THOSE GUYS LAUGH $$$$$$$$……and its just funny how people react …….gues what LOL…its damn good for evrybody.BY the way BJ the natural KID should be back at the gym soon …..now he know that he need it.LOL….NOW I FEEL GOOD AND YOU LOL……..evrybody stil have his belt right???and bit mor $$$$$LOL

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  • HexRei says:

    On that note, I think it’s time for all of these crazy rituals performed by members of the Jackson camp to end. I have a ton of respect for Jackson and his fighters but the nipple tweaking and witch doctor rituals only serve to take away from all of the great things that the camp has accomplished inside the cage.

    This is the only part of the article that makes no sense. They have to stop pre-fight rituals? How exactly do these things take away from their victory? As long as there is no illegal lube being applied I say go ahead and let em do their rituals.

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  • James says:

    BJ Penn and the weak people he surrounds himself with need to look more at his overall effort in the biggest fight of his career…it was pathetic for anyone who wanted one of the best fights ever first and foremost for the sport itself ….both fighters had the chance to take mma to another level and they both disappointed in their own way

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  • JD says:

    GSP puts it like this.. on a recent appearance on the Beatdown Show on Wednesday..

    “Listen, I never cheated in my life,” an animated St. Pierre told Sherdog Radio Network’s “Beatdown” show on Wednesday. “Let me tell you something, I never said something bad to B.J. Penn. I never answered back to him with what he said. I’ve always been respectful. Even after the fight I went and told him, ‘Hey, keep your head up. You can be proud. You’re a tough guy. You stayed in the ring for a long time.’ But now that he says something like that it bothers me a lot. He already said I was taking steroids, that I was a quitter, that he was blaming me for seeing a sports psychologist and now he says that I cheat because I use Vaseline.”

    The 27-year-old French Canadian, who narrowly bested Penn via split decision in their first meeting at UFC 58 in March 2006, said Penn’s contempt is misplaced.

    “It’s disrespectful, but B.J. is a winner,” St. Pierre said. “I understand a winner’s mentality. A winner’s mentality always tries to understand the reason why he lost. In B.J.’s case, he doesn’t do it in a good way. I understand that he tries to understand why he lost, but what he should’ve done instead of looking at things he doesn’t control he should’ve looked at himself in the mirror and asked himself what he should’ve done better to be more well-prepared for that fight to be able to beat Georges St. Pierre instead of looking at me and try to find excuses… B.J. right now is doing it all wrong and he’s not going to become a better fighter if he keeps acting like this.”

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  • Mack says:

    This article is just dishonest. And seeing as every comment I have made about the issue has been denied makes me question the journalistic integrity of this website and this writer in particular.

    Sam, at the end of the article you quote Jackson out of context implying that the Vaseline continued to be applied to St. Pierre’s back after Executive Director of the NSAC Keith Kizer came into the octagon before the second round which is absolutely and provably untrue. Jackson said that the Vaseline may have been on Nurse’s hands and that is how it got there before Kizer came to inspect St. Pierre.

    You give the impression that Vaseline had an impact on the fight for the entire four rounds which is impossible because St. Pierre was being monitored after the first round by the NSAC.

    Kizer quote; “I don’t think he heard me because of all the noise in the arena, so I immediately walked into the Octagon myself — I’ve probably done that two other times in my career — and told him to take his hand off Mr. St. Pierre’s back,” he said. “We took a towel and wiped off his back. After the third round, we went in again and made sure his back and shoulders were wiped off to ensure a level playing field.

    Another Kizer quote; “After round two, I watched him like a hawk,” said Kizer. “I’ve only entered the ring maybe three or four times (in my career) during a fight, but I did this time.
    Kizer also commented about the amount of Vaseline on St. Pierre and the frequency they were checking St. Pierre for Vaseline. “They didn’t take a big glob and throw it on his back. After putting Vaseline on (St. Pierre’s) face, he put his hands on his body. I don’t know if it was intentional or not, but it was improper,”

    Kizer also made it clear that an inspector did use a towel to wipe St. Pierre’s back between rounds two and three, and three and four. If the Vaseline had any affect it wouldn’t have had much of an impact past the first round and it was in the later round that BJ was being throttle. It wasn’t even until the second round that St. Pierre was able to get a take down on BJ.

    There is a deep undertone that runs through this article that strongly implies that St. Pierre was cheating. It doesn’t matter if the author said St. Pierre was the better fighter everything else points to that statement being used as a cover. We see this technique being used in journalism all the time. It allows a person to speculate while maintaining a cover of neutrality.

    Editor’s Note: First, for you to claim that my statement that Kizer entered the Octagon is untrue is a complete and total farce. I saw it with my own eyes, as did over 14,000 fans in attendance. Read my interview with Kizer — HE EVEN CONFIRMS HE ENTERED THE CAGE. You even pull his quote.

    Now, if your unclear statement is saying that they didn’t attempt to apply the Vaseline after Kizer had entered the cage, you are missing the point and you clearly didn’t read the article fully. St. Pierre’s camp was warned and admonished during the fight and then then the corner touched his neck, shoulders, and chest again after the first warning. This is completely true and is fact.

    At no point did I ever take Jackson’s words out of context. They are his own. I’m sorry if they don’t fit your argument. And there are no undertones in my article. I feel like I am pretty direct in asserting that St. Pierre had an unfair advantage that changed the nature of the fight. Your assertion that there is an “undertone” is invalid. How much more clear do I need to be in saying that was he did was wrong and gave him an unfair advantage?

    At no point have I ever disputed the outcome. B.J. Penn is not a welterweight. He’s 1-3 in the UFC at 170. GSP outclassed him and is a superior athlete and fighter. However, the attempt by his corner to apply lubricant to his body is wrong no matter how much of a fan of GSP you happen to be. Question the amount of lubricant that was applied all you want but the fact that an attempt to apply any amount, whether intentional or not, is just plain wrong and unfair.

    Question the integrity of this site all you want, but it doesn’t erase what was visible on camera and what has been confirmed by members of the UFC and Nevada State Athletic Commission. I am sorry if you are allowing the facts to get in the way of the truth. If you want to argue my article on merits, then great. But when you try to drag my integrity into the argument you cross a line that is completely off base. I am not a part of the story.

    As far as “giving an impression” that Vaseline had an impact, I am not doing any such thing. I am clearly saying that I believe it did have an impact on the course of the fight. The outcome is not in question but I do believe it definitely had an impact on the fight. But just because the outcome is not in question, does that somehow make it right? Furthermore, has your obvious bias for GSP allowed you to question why the commission even felt a need to towel him down between rounds? That doesn’t alarm or concern you in the least? Have you ever considered that perhaps in the sixty seconds they have between rounds that they maybe weren’t able to get all of the lubricant off his body?

    “It doesn’t matter if the author said St. Pierre was the better fighter everything else points to that statement being used as a cover. We see this technique being used in journalism all the time. It allows a person to speculate while maintaining a cover of neutrality.”

    This is a ridiculous statement. What technique are you talking about? What about the technique you are using by making false accusations of some sort of bias towards an author that doesn’t exist in attempt to cover a clear bias for GSP? There is no need to try and maintain a “cover of neutrality” because I am completely neutral. I have no allegiance towards either the camp of GSP or Penn. I was a fan in attendance to see two great fighters compete against each other. I made a prediction and small wager (for the fun of it) but I can assure you that I have no allegiance towards B.J. Penn over St. Pierre.

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