It is starting to really annoy me that the majority of ‘fans’ out there name so many fighters as ‘past it’, or as ‘cans’ just because they have lost a few fights. I mean, reading some posts on some forums sometimes really frustrates me, because it gives you a great overview of roughly how the average UFC fans mind set works. If a fighter loses… they are worthless, or they were a ‘could have been’, but since they have lost.. they are no good. You know… and then comparing fighters… ‘well fighter A lost to fighter B… So fighter A is never going to be able to beat fighter C..’ You read so many comments like that… and it just generally doesnt work like that.

This article does a great job of addressing this. Using PrideFC as an example works a treat. One fighter jumps straight to my mind since we are talking about Pride and its attitudes towards fighters… and that fighter is Sakuraba… Now.. this guy, who you MMA fans should definetly know (possibly as the Gracie Killer), is a legend of Pride.. a hero in Japan (and the countries around). He doesnt have the greatest record ever… but he is still viewed by many as one of the greatest MMA fighters EVER. Sakuraba always had an exciting fight, he always gave it his all, and he was extremely talented. He lost fights… so what? I enjoyed nearly every single one of this guys fights, he simply amazed me – win or lose.

Now thats just one example. A more recent example is Wanderlei Silva, sure he is losing.. but would the UFC ever cut him? Of course not!!! He always has exciting fights.. always brings it. That guy is a hero to many. And loves to fight. And yet you still get so many people saying he should retire!!! And it really frustrates me!! WHY?!?! Why should he? Because he has lost some fights? Thats not the point, he entertains.. Thats the main reason why he is still fighting. He has heart.

There are so many other examples, but those are two of the main ones. Its just the mindset of the casual fan, nowadays, its pretty much only the champions and top contenders that get recognised in the media – and as a result, more so by the casual fan. And thats why the others are forgotten by the majority. If MMA is going to be a sport, it needs its top fighters… its middle fighters… and its lower fighters… Maybe after 4 or 5 loses in a row, a cut can be considered.. but even then, only if the fighter is NOT putting on entertaining fights. I think through time, as the sport grows (think about football, teams are not cut just because they lose a few matches in a row), people will change. And are going to start appreciating the martial arts being displayed in the fights, rather than just caring about who wins or loses. It takes two fighters to make an exciting fight.. remember that. They should both be recognised, win or lose.

shotokai_: And BigDave got 19 little negative thumb symbols, and his comment got banned, haha man that sucks bro, you gonna be alright? Don’t do anything rash..

I think I need to be put on suicide watch, I need people to validate me and love me………hahaha!
Love me or hate me I give my opinion and sometimes its good sometimes bad but always just my opinion.

shotokai_: And BigDave got 19 little negative thumb symbols, and his comment got banned, haha man that sucks bro, you gonna be alright? Don’t do anything rash..

And since we’re in the business of correcting people, it’s actually 24 thumbs down

shotokai_: Other than this though, nice article. And my 2 cents is that fights that aren’t relevant rankings-wise can still be very interesting and, whats infinitely more important, popular amongst fans. Take for example Butterbean vs Tank Abbott, coming up on some card in Alabama soon (?). It’s a small promotion, a small event, with small pay packages probably. Yet I’m still more interested in a) what this fight looks like and b) what the outcome is than several other “meaningful” fights put on by other organisations recently; e.g. a few of the “important” fights that took place at Dream 12 the other week.

That Tank/Butterbean fight was canceled and replaced with a sure to be boring Jeff Monson vs Travis Fulton main event.
But hey good news for MMA purists who hated the Bean/Tank match up and now will probably be happy watching this fight and trying to convince themselves it doesn’t suck.

shotokai_: Other than this though, nice article. And my 2 cents is that fights that aren’t relevant rankings-wise can still be very interesting and, whats infinitely more important, popular amongst fans. Take for example Butterbean vs Tank Abbott, coming up on some card in Alabama soon (?). It’s a small promotion, a small event, with small pay packages probably. Yet I’m still more interested in a) what this fight looks like and b) what the outcome is than several other “meaningful” fights put on by other organisations recently; e.g. a few of the “important” fights that took place at Dream 12 the other week.

my apologies for the error, I’ll promptly refund your subscription cost.

thank you kind sir

Whaaaaaaaa my mistake…..relax and don’t take things so personal.

And then “Angry Mike” does the same he gets thanked like some kind of hero.

Angry Mike is a hero to us all. did you not get the memo?

I’m a lot more interested in the line of thought concerning the strong fighter who might not be in line for the title, but always seems to provide tough competition for whoever they face in the ring, and consistently entertains the fans; both consumers newer to the sport, and the hardcore long-time fan who appreciates more than a knock-down drag-out toughman match.

I’ve posted previously about the role of the journeyman in boxing, a guy whose skills are good, whose heart is dedicated to giving his best effort, but who for whatever reason may fall short of the championship level. In MMA, I think of a guy like Heath Herring, or dare I say it, in these latter days of his career, Randy Couture, who you know will never give less than his maximum effort, but whose moments in title contention have most likely passed. Fans still love to watch Randy, will pay to see him fight, regardless of the fact that he most likely will not contend again for a title.

As MMA grows, and the sport attracts more and better fighters from an expanding talent pool, the climb to the top will undoubtedly grow steeper, and take longer. I think we can look forward to lots of entertaining competitve fights in the years to come that might not necessarily have critical title implications, but none the less provide intense compelling MMA action that fans will enjoy, both from up and coming emerging fighters, as well as the gatekeepers and journeymen who will comprise those who may never achieve the summit, but still give fans their money’s worth in the cage.

Again, as the sport matures, perhaps we can look toward a day where a fighter who proves his mettle in the cage, fighters like Clay Guida or Keith Jardine or a host of others, fighters who prove to be fan favorites and provide spirited action in their matches, need not panic if they lose a couple fights. As long as they give their best and never lie down, there should always be a place for that type of fighter, in the UFC and the other promotions as well.

David Andrest:
Big Dave,First off thank you for reading.
My point is less aboutwhat either of us think of Kimbo as a fighter, but more about the UFC not wanting to stop the hype train.I’m a believer that Kimbo will have a hard time winning in the UFC, they will really have to be smart about picking guys for him to fight if they have hopes of keeping him around. ( Again, neither of us have to like it, but we KNOW it’s going to happen)
He is a draw,I dont’ know why, but he draws eyes.They are going to want to hold on to that for as long as they can.
So I think this is going to force a shift in how the UFC handles guys who lose.This could open the door to them handling losses in general in a different way. I think they have needed to do this for a long time.You may agree or disagree, but I’d like to see a change.

Ok. I can see what you mean but there is something I think is being over looked here and that is the fact that over 6 million people just tuned in and saw that not only was kimbo not exciting in anyway but he also showed zero improvment in any part of his MMA game. I hazzard to think that alot less people are going to be willing to fork over 45-50 bucks to see a guy that even for a sideshow isn’t able to make an entertaining loser.

Angry Mike: @Neija:How about the recent fight between Hong Man Choi and Minowa in Dream?Ithoroughly enjoyed it, but it was a goof rather than a serious fight.Not something I’d want to see on every card.

lol anyone vs. Choi or a giant is gonna have a bit of a side show aspect. pretty much the same thing as anyone vs. Kimbo. The “giant” or “Internet sensation” angles are just too easy to wrap some cheesy marketing around and draw in casual fans. Because of that, I’m thinking up to 10% goofy fights is ok. If the revenue from the goofy fights helps pay for the matches hardcore fans like, there is actually a benefit for hardcore fans. Hardcore fans who don’t want to watch Kimbo can turn the channel … but admit it, you try to ignore it and get sucked back into the sideshow anyway…

BigDave: Ok Dave,Sorry I didnt read your artcle before I posted. I have now read it and have a bit to add to my earlyer statment which has been now censored or whatever.Now I as a true fan of mma of course want to see exciting fights. They don’t have to be world beaters but for you to use Kimbo Slice as your bases for the article that deals with this subject makes absolutly no sence at all. Have you seen any of his fights? Ok , I’ll say that his fight against Tank was at least good for a laugh but he got run over by petruzeli, should have lost to thompson when he was down taking punches to the head for half a round then had a ref that called the fight when there was zero reason for him to after kimbo landed a few winging shots, and we all saw that even with all the supposed training he has been doing still got takin down with ease and just layed there while big country took side control then put him in the crucifix several times and beat on his head till it was stopped.So where is the excitement there cause I don’t see it. Give me a lawlor fight or gurgel, guida, condit, miller, couture even with his deminishing skills, or so many other great fighters out there but Kimbo Should never be put into this conversation He is a carnival act maybe he could make a stab at tna wrestling or something at the very most but a catalyst for posative change in mma he most certainly is not.I’d give more credit to butterbean then kimbo cause although he isn’t good at all at least he is entertaining. Give credit to Jon Jones or any of the guys I named earlyer cause they are the ones that deserve it. Couture and guy of his era for putting MMa on the map and Jones and the rest of the young talented fighter out there for they will be the true catalyst for posative change in mma.

Big Dave, First off thank you for reading.

My point is less about what either of us think of Kimbo as a fighter, but more about the UFC not wanting to stop the hype train.

I’m a believer that Kimbo will have a hard time winning in the UFC, they will really have to be smart about picking guys for him to fight if they have hopes of keeping him around. ( Again, neither of us have to like it, but we KNOW it’s going to happen)

He is a draw, I dont’ know why, but he draws eyes. They are going to want to hold on to that for as long as they can.

So I think this is going to force a shift in how the UFC handles guys who lose. This could open the door to them handling losses in general in a different way. I think they have needed to do this for a long time.

You may agree or disagree, but I’d like to see a change.

I agree with Big Dave. Good post.