Comments on: Grappling With Issues – 3/12/10 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2010/03/12/grappling-with-issues-31210/ Your Destination for Insider MMA News and Opinion Sun, 27 May 2012 04:20:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: superdavenorcal http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2010/03/12/grappling-with-issues-31210/comment-page-1/#comment-147781 superdavenorcal Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:03:07 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=22384#comment-147781 Yeah Miguels mystique is certainly gone and that could spell trouble for anyone who forgets what he's capable of. He had an outstanding 3 minute fight with Bowles and Benavidez was winning before he got that elbow in and choked him out but he wasn't dominating him. If someone forgets who Miguel Angel is in the cage mark my words, they'll get hurt. James Toney gets a 6 from me more for curiosity sake. I know he's an older retired heavyweight boxer who's gas tank probably isn't gonna be great and ground work probably worse, but pure and simple if he wings a right hand into anyones head or neck area it can be lights out and that's awesome. Plus he is a great athlete and if he works on sprawling he may be able to be the next Cro Cop except with his hands instead of his feet. Im equally impressed with our two bantamweight winners. Cruz was beating a dominant Bowles and How can you not be impressed with what benavidez did? I wanna see Bowles Vs. Cruz 2 though. Yes if Strikeforce can't garner great ratings they will be off CBS. Its put up or shut up time for them and I think if CBS actually promotes it, we might get to keep mma on free tv. If not its cool, Nick Diaz should quit and come home to the UFC. I see so many instant classics with him against almost any top WW( Kos, Fitch, Thiago, Alves a rematch with Diego) Yeah Miguels mystique is certainly gone and that could spell trouble for anyone who forgets what he’s capable of. He had an outstanding 3 minute fight with Bowles and Benavidez was winning before he got that elbow in and choked him out but he wasn’t dominating him. If someone forgets who Miguel Angel is in the cage mark my words, they’ll get hurt.

James Toney gets a 6 from me more for curiosity sake. I know he’s an older retired heavyweight boxer who’s gas tank probably isn’t gonna be great and ground work probably worse, but pure and simple if he wings a right hand into anyones head or neck area it can be lights out and that’s awesome. Plus he is a great athlete and if he works on sprawling he may be able to be the next Cro Cop except with his hands instead of his feet.

Im equally impressed with our two bantamweight winners. Cruz was beating a dominant Bowles and How can you not be impressed with what benavidez did? I wanna see Bowles Vs. Cruz 2 though.

Yes if Strikeforce can’t garner great ratings they will be off CBS. Its put up or shut up time for them and I think if CBS actually promotes it, we might get to keep mma on free tv. If not its cool, Nick Diaz should quit and come home to the UFC. I see so many instant classics with him against almost any top WW( Kos, Fitch, Thiago, Alves a rematch with Diego)

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]]> By: mu_shin http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2010/03/12/grappling-with-issues-31210/comment-page-1/#comment-147778 mu_shin Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:48:10 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=22384#comment-147778 Mystique does not win fights, technique does. Huge Torres fan, and I think Miguel ran into some tough fighters as well as some bad luck, particularly in the last fight againt Benavidez. Not to take anything away from Benavidez, but what I saw was Torres battling a really game, tough fighter, with ample time in that fight for him to pull it together, but the cut broke his concentration and left him vulnerable to the choke. When blood pours like that, it's only human to have your composure tested, and in this case, Torres was not able to maintain. Seeing the photos later with his skull exposed, I think it was understandable. Benavidez fought a great fight, had an excellent game plan against a really dangerous guy, and on this day, his elbow took him to a hard fought victory. I just think we will see Miguel Torres redeem himself in the cage, and regain his winning ways. Cruz was also impressive, but I agree with Mr. Tool, Bowles deserves a rematch after his hand is really and truly healed, to see where these chips will fall. Lots of people seemed to think Bowles threw in the towel too easily, but Bowles knocked out a dominant bantamweight champion in Miguel Torres, and I'd like to see him get the chance to earn the respect I think he deserves. If MMA wins were accorded for brash macho attitude, James Toney would no doubt be a winner. Tons of respect for his accomplishments in boxing, but the whole genesis of mixed martial arts is defined by avoidance of ballistic fisticuffs in favor of bjj/wrestling if that's what it takes to beat an opponent. Only a fool would stand and trade with a multi-weight class boxing world champion; and only a seriously deluded aging athlete in the twilight of his career would assume that any MMA athlete worth that description would try and outstrike a master striker, when he has the option to take the fight to the ground. A couple other thoughts: Toney has fought his whole career in 8 and 10 ounce gloves. Would not be surprised at all if he breaks his hand on someone's head switching to a four ounce MMA glove. Also, no one has mentioned it in all the articles I've read so far on Toney's getting picked up by the UFC, but this is a guy with two suspensions for steroid use in boxing, and even with the juice, I believe the heaviest he ever fought was 237. Put this guy in against Cain Velasquez, and I'm thinking Toney gets eaten alive up against the cage on the ground... Mystique does not win fights, technique does.

Huge Torres fan, and I think Miguel ran into some tough fighters as well as some bad luck, particularly in the last fight againt Benavidez. Not to take anything away from Benavidez, but what I saw was Torres battling a really game, tough fighter, with ample time in that fight for him to pull it together, but the cut broke his concentration and left him vulnerable to the choke. When blood pours like that, it’s only human to have your composure tested, and in this case, Torres was not able to maintain. Seeing the photos later with his skull exposed, I think it was understandable. Benavidez fought a great fight, had an excellent game plan against a really dangerous guy, and on this day, his elbow took him to a hard fought victory. I just think we will see Miguel Torres redeem himself in the cage, and regain his winning ways.

Cruz was also impressive, but I agree with Mr. Tool, Bowles deserves a rematch after his hand is really and truly healed, to see where these chips will fall. Lots of people seemed to think Bowles threw in the towel too easily, but Bowles knocked out a dominant bantamweight champion in Miguel Torres, and I’d like to see him get the chance to earn the respect I think he deserves.

If MMA wins were accorded for brash macho attitude, James Toney would no doubt be a winner. Tons of respect for his accomplishments in boxing, but the whole genesis of mixed martial arts is defined by avoidance of ballistic fisticuffs in favor of bjj/wrestling if that’s what it takes to beat an opponent. Only a fool would stand and trade with a multi-weight class boxing world champion; and only a seriously deluded aging athlete in the twilight of his career would assume that any MMA athlete worth that description would try and outstrike a master striker, when he has the option to take the fight to the ground.

A couple other thoughts: Toney has fought his whole career in 8 and 10 ounce gloves. Would not be surprised at all if he breaks his hand on someone’s head switching to a four ounce MMA glove. Also, no one has mentioned it in all the articles I’ve read so far on Toney’s getting picked up by the UFC, but this is a guy with two suspensions for steroid use in boxing, and even with the juice, I believe the heaviest he ever fought was 237. Put this guy in against Cain Velasquez, and I’m thinking Toney gets eaten alive up against the cage on the ground…

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]]> By: dpk http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2010/03/12/grappling-with-issues-31210/comment-page-1/#comment-147736 dpk Sat, 13 Mar 2010 06:25:48 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=22384#comment-147736 I don't think it would be a big set back for MMA if Strikeforce loses its deal with CBS. Strikeforce is the 2nd biggest orgainization out there, now if UFC gets a network deal and loses it after 2 or 3 cards, then that would be a big set back for MMA. Miguel Torres still has alot of skills, and can be a force. His aura of invincibility has just been dented, and the skills of other athletes are just catching up to him. He did lose to two of the top 3-4 fighters in the weight class. I almost wondering if Zuffa may have been waiting for this depth to show up in the division to consider moving it to UFC? There are numerous contenders in the division right now, and it is very interesting. I really don't care too much about James Toney, the guy was a great boxer, and still can out box alot of top guys today, but I just don't care for this signing. I don’t think it would be a big set back for MMA if Strikeforce loses its deal with CBS. Strikeforce is the 2nd biggest orgainization out there, now if UFC gets a network deal and loses it after 2 or 3 cards, then that would be a big set back for MMA.

Miguel Torres still has alot of skills, and can be a force. His aura of invincibility has just been dented, and the skills of other athletes are just catching up to him. He did lose to two of the top 3-4 fighters in the weight class. I almost wondering if Zuffa may have been waiting for this depth to show up in the division to consider moving it to UFC? There are numerous contenders in the division right now, and it is very interesting.

I really don’t care too much about James Toney, the guy was a great boxer, and still can out box alot of top guys today, but I just don’t care for this signing.

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]]> By: Dufresne http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2010/03/12/grappling-with-issues-31210/comment-page-1/#comment-147731 Dufresne Sat, 13 Mar 2010 02:07:35 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=22384#comment-147731 <blockquote cite="comment-147727"> <strong><a href="#comment-147727" rel="nofollow">LiverPunch</a></strong>: “Conlan: I’d like to say there is a far greater focus on athleticism, ability, and performance in the ring than look, gift of gab, and even the slightest hint of former fame when it comes to the current state of the UFC, but James Toney’s signing is yet another reminder that Zuffa’s goal is to turn a profit even if MMA’s soul is sold in the process. Like Kimbo Slice, Toney was inked to entice the mainstream media into coverage and draw less-knowledgeable fans into spending cash. There are fighters who are far more deserving of a place in the UFC’s spotlight than either man based on actual accomplishment in the sport, yet lack the 15-minutes of fame each obtained prior to debuting in the Octagon and are thus relegated to relative anonymity. I understand the point of running a business is to make money and can’t fault the UFC in that regard. Saying they’re good at what they do is a vast understatement. They are the Kleenex of Mixed Martial Arts. However, in regards to how they approach sport vs. entertainment I think the relationship is closer than Tool gave them credit for. You’re talking about a company that thrust Brock Lesnar into a title fight after going 2-1 as a professional Mixed Martial Artist and bypassed countless contenders over the past few years in favor of those who might potentially sell more PPV buys. 60/40 at best.”Bulls eye!.   </blockquote> For some reason I always find myself defending Brock, even though I really don't like the guy. When Brock came along, yes, he went 1-1 before his title fight with Randy. But after his fight with Mir, there was almost no one he could have fought. The 2 biggest HW fighters not named Randy Couture were fighting for the interim belt which left a bunch of absolute nobodies, Heath Herring, and Brock Lesnar. So Brock and Heath fought, Brock won and was really the only fighter available to fight Randy for quite a while. So that's how he ended up with the title shot, the title, and the eventual title reunification against Mir, all within his first 4 UFC fights. Granted, his name sold tons of seats and PPVs so there is an amount of similarity btw Brock, Kimbo, and Toney. If CBS drops SF I'm not gonna be happy. I don't know if they could pull it off for too long with just the showtime deal going unless they somehow get into the ppv market also. I really hope this doesn't happen.

LiverPunch: “Conlan: I’d like to say there is a far greater focus on athleticism, ability, and performance in the ring than look, gift of gab, and even the slightest hint of former fame when it comes to the current state of the UFC, but James Toney’s signing is yet another reminder that Zuffa’s goal is to turn a profit even if MMA’s soul is sold in the process. Like Kimbo Slice, Toney was inked to entice the mainstream media into coverage and draw less-knowledgeable fans into spending cash. There are fighters who are far more deserving of a place in the UFC’s spotlight than either man based on actual accomplishment in the sport, yet lack the 15-minutes of fame each obtained prior to debuting in the Octagon and are thus relegated to relative anonymity.
I understand the point of running a business is to make money and can’t fault the UFC in that regard. Saying they’re good at what they do is a vast understatement. They are the Kleenex of Mixed Martial Arts. However, in regards to how they approach sport vs. entertainment I think the relationship is closer than Tool gave them credit for. You’re talking about a company that thrust Brock Lesnar into a title fight after going 2-1 as a professional Mixed Martial Artist and bypassed countless contenders over the past few years in favor of those who might potentially sell more PPV buys. 60/40 at best.”Bulls eye!.  

For some reason I always find myself defending Brock, even though I really don’t like the guy.

When Brock came along, yes, he went 1-1 before his title fight with Randy. But after his fight with Mir, there was almost no one he could have fought. The 2 biggest HW fighters not named Randy Couture were fighting for the interim belt which left a bunch of absolute nobodies, Heath Herring, and Brock Lesnar. So Brock and Heath fought, Brock won and was really the only fighter available to fight Randy for quite a while. So that’s how he ended up with the title shot, the title, and the eventual title reunification against Mir, all within his first 4 UFC fights.
Granted, his name sold tons of seats and PPVs so there is an amount of similarity btw Brock, Kimbo, and Toney.

If CBS drops SF I’m not gonna be happy. I don’t know if they could pull it off for too long with just the showtime deal going unless they somehow get into the ppv market also. I really hope this doesn’t happen.

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]]> By: LiverPunch http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2010/03/12/grappling-with-issues-31210/comment-page-1/#comment-147727 LiverPunch Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:31:37 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=22384#comment-147727 "Conlan: I’d like to say there is a far greater focus on athleticism, ability, and performance in the ring than look, gift of gab, and even the slightest hint of former fame when it comes to the current state of the UFC, but James Toney’s signing is yet another reminder that Zuffa’s goal is to turn a profit even if MMA’s soul is sold in the process. Like Kimbo Slice, Toney was inked to entice the mainstream media into coverage and draw less-knowledgeable fans into spending cash. There are fighters who are far more deserving of a place in the UFC’s spotlight than either man based on actual accomplishment in the sport, yet lack the 15-minutes of fame each obtained prior to debuting in the Octagon and are thus relegated to relative anonymity. I understand the point of running a business is to make money and can’t fault the UFC in that regard. Saying they’re good at what they do is a vast understatement. They are the Kleenex of Mixed Martial Arts. However, in regards to how they approach sport vs. entertainment I think the relationship is closer than Tool gave them credit for. You’re talking about a company that thrust Brock Lesnar into a title fight after going 2-1 as a professional Mixed Martial Artist and bypassed countless contenders over the past few years in favor of those who might potentially sell more PPV buys. 60/40 at best." Bulls eye!. “Conlan: I’d like to say there is a far greater focus on athleticism, ability, and performance in the ring than look, gift of gab, and even the slightest hint of former fame when it comes to the current state of the UFC, but James Toney’s signing is yet another reminder that Zuffa’s goal is to turn a profit even if MMA’s soul is sold in the process. Like Kimbo Slice, Toney was inked to entice the mainstream media into coverage and draw less-knowledgeable fans into spending cash. There are fighters who are far more deserving of a place in the UFC’s spotlight than either man based on actual accomplishment in the sport, yet lack the 15-minutes of fame each obtained prior to debuting in the Octagon and are thus relegated to relative anonymity.

I understand the point of running a business is to make money and can’t fault the UFC in that regard. Saying they’re good at what they do is a vast understatement. They are the Kleenex of Mixed Martial Arts. However, in regards to how they approach sport vs. entertainment I think the relationship is closer than Tool gave them credit for. You’re talking about a company that thrust Brock Lesnar into a title fight after going 2-1 as a professional Mixed Martial Artist and bypassed countless contenders over the past few years in favor of those who might potentially sell more PPV buys. 60/40 at best.”

Bulls eye!.

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]]> By: Soggykong http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2010/03/12/grappling-with-issues-31210/comment-page-1/#comment-147721 Soggykong Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:13:25 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=22384#comment-147721 I don't know that Toney is a step backward for MMA. Toney coming in with no ground game isn't any different them Maia coming in with almost no stand up. That being said, I'm at a 5. And I have been a huge boxing fan my whole life. I don’t know that Toney is a step backward for MMA. Toney coming in with no ground game isn’t any different them Maia coming in with almost no stand up. That being said, I’m at a 5. And I have been a huge boxing fan my whole life.

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]]> By: Rich S. http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2010/03/12/grappling-with-issues-31210/comment-page-1/#comment-147718 Rich S. Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:12:54 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=22384#comment-147718 -Miguel Torres HAS lost his mystique, but I still believe he is one of the best Bantamweights in the world today.. Miguel's fighting style is dangerous (for him). He likes to go full force with wreckless abandon and either rock or submit his opponent early on.. When he does this there's all sorts of openings available.. People have finally picked up on that.. He just needs to change some things up, and reevaluate his strong suits. He will certainly return to the "W" column soon.. -I guess I'm more impressed with Benavidez simply because I was expecting a win from Cruz.. -I'd love to see Cruz and Jorgensen square off.. -My excitement towards Toney's debut depends on his opponent.. If he gets a striker I'd say a 7 or so.. If he gets thrown in with a top grappler, Idk, maybe a 3 or 4.. If it's a main event I'd say 1.. I mean, I'm glad the guy's here, but I want to see him get a tune up fight in a normal, main card fight.. -Miguel Torres HAS lost his mystique, but I still believe he is one of the best Bantamweights in the world today.. Miguel’s fighting style is dangerous (for him). He likes to go full force with wreckless abandon and either rock or submit his opponent early on.. When he does this there’s all sorts of openings available.. People have finally picked up on that.. He just needs to change some things up, and reevaluate his strong suits. He will certainly return to the “W” column soon..

-I guess I’m more impressed with Benavidez simply because I was expecting a win from Cruz..

-I’d love to see Cruz and Jorgensen square off..

-My excitement towards Toney’s debut depends on his opponent.. If he gets a striker I’d say a 7 or so.. If he gets thrown in with a top grappler, Idk, maybe a 3 or 4.. If it’s a main event I’d say 1.. I mean, I’m glad the guy’s here, but I want to see him get a tune up fight in a normal, main card fight..

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]]> By: Kuch http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2010/03/12/grappling-with-issues-31210/comment-page-1/#comment-147716 Kuch Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:14:07 +0000 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/?p=22384#comment-147716 If CBS drops MMA, it will be a huge blow to the sport and to Strikeforce. Whether you like the way Scott Coker handles business or not, Strikeforce gives more (mostly free) MMA to us fans. Broadcasting MMA on CBS introduces more casual viewers to the sport and hopefully increases its popularity and growth. If CBS walks away, I don’t see Strikeforce going to another station and I also think it would hinder any possible TV deal sought by the UFC. If CBS drops MMA, it will be a huge blow to the sport and to Strikeforce. Whether you like the way Scott Coker handles business or not, Strikeforce gives more (mostly free) MMA to us fans. Broadcasting MMA on CBS introduces more casual viewers to the sport and hopefully increases its popularity and growth. If CBS walks away, I don’t see Strikeforce going to another station and I also think it would hinder any possible TV deal sought by the UFC.

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