Fedor Has A Year (Or Less) Atop The Heavyweight Rankings

For longer than anyone can remember, Fedor Emelianenko has ruled the heavyweight ranks. His legendary battles in PRIDE combined with his unparalleled streak of victories has kept Fedor in the #1 position for several years now. There are questions about the level of competition that he’s faced in recent years, but as long as he’s kept winning in spectacular fashion then those concerns are kept in the minority.

That is about to change, and sooner than you think. Within the next year Fedor will be unseated from his spot atop the heavyweight rankings.

Before we can look ahead, we should take a quick look back. At the beginning of 2008 the UFC’s heavyweight division was in ruins. Their champion, Randy Couture, had left the company over frustrations with management and Zuffa’s inability to sign Emelianenko. The UFC needed to continue recognizing Couture as their champion to keep the upper hand in any upcoming legal battles, yet they still needed someone currently on their roster to represent the top of the division. Their solution was to match up their former champ Tim Sylvia and former PRIDE champion Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira for the interim heavyweight title. Sylvia was coming off a dreadfully boring decision win over Brandon Vera, while Nogueira had made a less-than-stellar octagon debut by nearly being knocked out by Heath Herring. Nogueira won the title, but from the beginning he wasn’t considered a true champion while Couture still had his belt.

While things may have been grim at the time, that same year would see the seeds being planted for an entirely new era in the heavyweight division. It started with former WWE superstar Brock Lesnar, who made his UFC debut on the same card as the Nogueira/Sylvia title fight. Lesnar got the bulk of fans’ attention before UFC 81 and his popularity has grown substantially since then, despite the loss in that first octagon appearance. He has since claimed the UFC Heavyweight Championship and is widely regarded as the #2 heavyweight in the world behind Fedor.

2008 was the same year that saw the debut of a few more fighters in the UFC heavyweight division. The preliminary portion of UFC 83 featured the then 2-0 Cain Velasquez making his debut in the octagon. One month later Shane Carwin picked up his ninth first-round stoppage on the undercard of UFC 84 (the bout lasted 44 seconds and was shown on the PPV broadcast). Junior Dos Santos was brought in to face rising contender Fabrico Werdum at UFC 90, but it was Dos Santos who got the win (and all of Werdum’s momentum) on that night.

Now these four men make up the very top of the UFC’s heavyweight ranks. Their win columns are filled with the names of those fighters that were previously considered amongst the best in the division. Names like Randy Couture, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Mirko Cro Cop, Frank Mir, Gabriel Gonzaga, Heath Herring, and Cheick Kongo. At the moment Lesnar is considered to be the best in the company, with Carwin, Velasquez, and Dos Santos following behind (usually in that order). However any attempts to rank these four fighters is entirely arbitrary, because all four men have yet to face one another. As such we don’t truly know who the best heavyweight in the UFC is, but it won’t be that way for too much longer.

Next weekend will see the long-awaited meeting between Lesnar and Carwin. The winner of that fight will become the Undisputed UFC Heavyweight Champion, and will then have to defend that belt against Velasquez later this year. Assuming he can get by Roy Nelson in August, it’s safe to assume that Dos Santos will be next in line for a shot at the title sometime in 2011.

Once we’ve seen this first round of match-ups between the UFC’s new breed of heavyweights, we’ll be left with one man standing. It’s all-but-impossible to predict who that man will be but one thing is for sure: By virtue of the competition that he’ll have faced to get there, that man will be the very best fighter in the heavyweight division.

Could you deny that honor to any one of these four fighters by that point? No matter how this series of fights shakes out, the man left standing at the end will have beaten several top ten fighters. That’s more than we can say for what Fedor stands to accomplish within that same amount of time.

It’s almost a given that Fedor will emerge victorious this Saturday night, but what exactly does a win over Werdum prove to anyone? Anyone ranking Werdum in the top ten has him towards the bottom half of the list, and the same can be said for Fedor’s last opponent Brett Rogers. Before that Fedor toppled Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski, but one need only look at the trajectory of both men’s post-Fedor careers to see that those victories aren’t that big of an accomplishment.

Presumably, Fedor is heading towards a showdown with current Strikeforce Heavyweight Champion Alistair Overeem. Overeem is coming off a completely one-sided victory over Rogers, but other than that he hasn’t beaten anyone of consequence since moving to heavyweight. Most rankings have Overeem at #7, which seems a bit silly to me given the number of sub-par opponents that make up the majority of his win column. If Overeem can defeat Fedor that does not mean that he deserves to take over the #1 spot. Fedor has earned his place at the top by facing some of the best fighters to ever step into a ring, Overeem most certainly has not.

We know that Fedor doesn’t care about internet rankings, nor does he consider himself to be the best fighter in the world. We, the fans, will hold his legacy in high regard no matter what the future brings. There will never be another fighter like him, and that’s a fact. He’s been the best in the world for a long time, but all good things must come to an end.

76 COMMENTS
  • Rece Rock says:

    I’ll hold his past in high regard. Not his present status…

    Well-Done. Thumb up 40 Thumb down 17

  • stone says:

    Fedor needs to come to the UFC n quit bullshittin! He’s still #1 in my book but, I see where the rankings are coming from. I still would want to see him beat a few toppers before goin for the belt! Just imagine Fedor vs any of the UFC top 5… Friggin awesome!

    Well-Done. Thumb up 43 Thumb down 8

  • danw84 says:

    I agree with this article’s conclusion. Unless Fedor fights guys like Carwin, JDS, Lesnar, Cain, etc., it makes sense that he can’t be kept at the #1 spot.

    That does not mean he is not the best though. He just can’t be ranked as such without current big name wins.

    Well-Done. Thumb up 35 Thumb down 16

  • Brendhan Conlan says:

    Rankings are subjective anyways.

    Well-Done. Thumb up 39 Thumb down 4

  • Dufresne says:

    That’s the problem with having legitimate fighters spread out across multiple promotions, you can’t determine who is best simply because they can’t fight the same competition. I’m not advocating merging all MMA organizations, I’m just pointing out that we simply don’t know who’s best anymore.

    If one of the “new breed” of UFC heavyweights does manage to beat all of his colleagues in the next year, he should be considered the #1 HW in the world. Unless Fedor manages to put together several fights against top tier opponents in the same time period, it’s almost impossible to argue against.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 4

  • twyg says:

    Does anyone really think fedor will be around in a year and a half? I say he walks away before the ufc gets done crowning the best.

    Well-Done. Thumb up 25 Thumb down 6

  • gstringwife says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Weak-Sauce. Thumb up 7 Thumb down 17

  • BigDave says:

    This is simple was Fedor great? yes he was but his time has passed. He fights guys that are of no consequence in the MMA world, and Werdum although I like the guy can’t hang with any of the guys in the top 10. Nor does it look like Fedor has any intention to ever fight anyone in the top tier again. The Fedor hype machine has turned this guy into a hero and that was long after the guys relivent fights. I for one am hoping that on this one night Werdum can pull off the upset and end Fedors reign as “#1″ fighter in the HW division.

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  • MCM says:

    What happens if Carwin beats Brock, then loses to Cain, and Nelson beats JDS then gets Cain for his first title defense and eeks out boring 5 rd dec.? Does that make Roy Nelson the best HW in the world?
    I agree that Fedor no longer deserves the #1 HW ranking but the division in the UFC is getting so stacked that, just like the LHW div, the only way to be #1 is to be the one with the belt around your waist. In the next year or year and a half, I can see us calling evey one of these guys the best HW in the world.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4

  • danw84 says:

    “What happens if Carwin beats Brock, then loses to Cain, and Nelson beats JDS then gets Cain for his first title defense and eeks out boring 5 rd dec.? Does that make Roy Nelson the best HW in the world?”

    Yes.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 9

  • FightFan313 says:

    unified belt system..ubs

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6

  • slammy862 says:

    Let’s look at motivation.

    His legacy depends on a perfect record. If he loses just once, he’s just another Pride stud that the sport evolved past.

    Fedor is the modern-day Royce Gracie. Nobody could beat Gracie back in the day…Matt Hughes ripped him apart without even building up a good sweat.

    Look, I used to be the biggest Fedor fan, but the sport has over-run him and he knows it!

    Problem is Fedor’s a very smart dude. He knows exactly what kind of fighters to fight and plans on riding off into the sunset with the (almost) perfect record.

    He needs to remain unbeaten or he fades into the ranks of the over-rated fallen.

    Fedor has moved this sport forward better than anyone, but he is not immune to progress.

    You don’t have to take a “love or hate,” position on the Red Devil, but if you aren’t the biggest or the fastest or the strongest or not even the technical best(recent loses in sambo) than you are not the best.

    Time will find ya.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 19

  • danw84 says:

    Fedor is nowhere near as 1 dimensional as Royce was.

    I think in the end, it doesn’t matter. I don’t think Fedor really cares all that much about rankings. If he did, he’d probably fight more often, and demand title shots off the bat rather than accepting who Strikeforce puts in front of him.

    I really wish people would stop thinking they’re able to tell what Fedor is thinking. slammy you know Fedor’s thoughts?

    Do you guys think Fedor doesn’t see or hear the discussions about him? He knows people are complaining about him. He knows people are calling for his record to be reduced. Do you really think that if he cared about his ranking, he’d do nothing about it?

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 4

  • danw84 says:

    And before anyone tries to say I’m saying I know what he’s thinking, I’m just saying what I’m getting out of his actions.

    I have no clue what the dude is doing.

    But I am making the assumption that he isn’t TRYING to make people think he’s scared of anyone or just wants to fight easy wins.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5

  • LiverPunch says:

    Honestly Slammy WTF are you talking about?
    Royce and Fedor are similar how?. Fedor is 31-1 and his last 4 fights (including Werdum) have been top 10ers.
    Riding off into the sunset?
    Explain to me where you get this utter shit from. Yes you are right he is not in the UFC but to say you know why he isn’t and just purely make shit up makes you (to anyone who thinks) look like a fool. You do realize you are just making shit up right?. He didn’t sign with the UFC but has tried many times to fight UFC fighters and tried to negotiate with the UFC. They turned him down and then he turned them down in turn. So he is now co-promoting with SF. Face it slammy you talk baseless dribble.
    You all know he has asked to fight UFC fighters and even tried to fight Randy when he was the UFC champ. You know he tried to get a co-promotion going and all of the rest but still insist on saying “he didn’t sign because blah blah blah” when you must know is just BS. I mean if he wanted to “ride off into the sunset undefeated” like you have made up. Why has he tried to do all of those things. I suppose you will say “because he knew the UFC wouldn’t do it” or some crap. Are you so easy to lead?. Think for yourself and stop listening to Dana “I’ve tried to get him and now I can’t have him he sux” White. You do realize he has asked toa nd tried to fight UFC champs and has not been allowed untless he signs an exclusive contract? The UFC is preventing it more than he is. He has stated his intentions to fight UFC champs and tried only to have the UFC say no not unless you sign and sue those UFC champs trying to fight him. I feel like a broken record. Hey Dana stop your viral propaganda. It has to be the case because people are not this dumb, surely. Wake up!
    Still no one can deny those facts.
    He tried to fight Randy and the UFC prevented it. He tried to form a co-pro and the UFC said no. 1 fight deals, UFC said no. Has asked Dana to put his money where his mouth is and let the UFC champs fight him and have they?.
    I’m sick of this just grow a brain.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 20 Thumb down 14

  • LiverPunch says:

    By the way Adam are you saying it is impossible for Fedor to remain no.1 without going to the UFC even though they (UFC fighters) will not go and fight anyone out of the UFC?.Let alone go and face him out of the UFC to gain the no.1.
    I know a lot of you are psychic and know that the top UFC fighters would beat those that are out of the UFC but I’m not so sure. Maybe I’m not as psychic as you guys or just maybe I don’t pretend to be No it’s probably because their is no evidence because they don’t allow there fighters to be exposed in any way to non-UFC fighters. I mean even those top UFC fighters in the past that have left such as Hendo, Sylvia, Arlovski etc struggle out of the UFC after being in the top of the weight division in the UFC. I think Lesnar would beat Fedor but I know I’m guessing. I wonder do you guys?. You do realize their is no evidence whatsoever that the top UFC fighters are better than those out of the UFC right?. Because apart from Werdum and Dos Santos none of them have fought.
    You say how could you deny one of those four the no.1 spot. Do you mean even though they only fight each other without being exposed to non-UFC fighters…oh I just kind answered that question without realizing it..
    All of you just fall into the trap of assumption.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 11

  • LiverPunch says:

    Last of all (lol).
    If you consider Lesnar, Carwin and Valasquez ( wrestlers that have learned to strike and defend (Mainly) submissions etc) more evolved than a combat sambo world champ a judo expert who is just as young or younger than them with a longer career in MMA …well what can I say. A big wrestler that has learned to strike and gnp. Gee thats new. If only Couture, Randleman, Hendo, Lindland, Matyushenko, Kerr, Sonnnen, Fujita, Severn, Ortiz, Hughes, Sherk etc had thought of that. I will tell Shhotobox and co to take some tips off Dos Santos and learn a bit of BJJ to go along with their kick boxing also. Explain how they have moved on in MMA past a well rounded grappler who has lethal gnp, great submissions, awesome throws and powerful, pin point and quick striking.

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  • YetiLee says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Weak-Sauce. Thumb up 6 Thumb down 17

  • JOEgun says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Weak-Sauce. Thumb up 8 Thumb down 18

  • BigDave says:

    Ok LiverPunch,

    We all get it you have a man crush on Fedor its ok. You want to tell everyone how great he is and how we should all bow at his feet and worship him. But lets face facts here, the level of compatition he has been fighting has been weak since his unanimous decision win to cro cop in 2005. There is not 1 legitimate top 10 guy there and there is even a 205 guy mixed in and a 2-3 K-1 fighter. Yes Fedor was a great fighter but given his lack of willingness to fight the top guys it shows that he is just living off his legacy and not wanting to take risks that he may not be the best. Case in point just in strikeforce alone, Fedor beat Rogers quite handely but then Rogers got the title shot, on what planet does that make any sence. The answer ther is simple. Now stay with me here, Fedor wins the #1 contenders bout, so obviously Scott Coker would have gone to Fedor and said congradulations you have earned the fight with Overeem, to which it would seem that Fedor said thanks but no thanks can you give me a fight with a guy that isnt going to test me that much? Hence we see fedor vs. Werdum. The only way I see Fedor being able to be called #1 is for him to obviously beat werdum, then fight and beat Overeem, then come into the UFC and run through the best there is there as well. untill that happens I have every intention to leave him as the #5 ranked HW behind Brock, Carwin,Cain,and Overeem.

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  • Madmax says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Weak-Sauce. Thumb up 7 Thumb down 17

  • Rece Rock says:

    At the end of the day there’s no way he can remain ranked #1 if he stays with SF… After Werdum, (whom I think is a decent match up compared to his last few fights)….Whose he fighting for the rest of his career?

    - Overeem… Ok he’s the SF phantom Champ, who has been padding his record with BullShit fights over in Japan for ages… Overeem may have skills but considering whom he test them against I wouldn’t put him in top 5 HW’s- Overeem himself has to prove his worth. If Fedor does face him and wins the belt – he’ll be wearing 2 useless straps… WAMMA and a SF Belt that has been irrelevant since it’s inception maybe he can bring prestige to this useless belt by fighting umm who…??? ummm one of these guys below maybe?

    - Big Foot Silva…AntiClimatic match up at best… and we already know it’s a guaranteed win.

    -Bobby Lashely… Pointless the guys a newbie and Coker knows he’s an ace in the hole when they finally do give him a big match up… the guy has drawing abilities but there not looking to throw him under the bus. Plus you know with Batista more than likely coming in he’ll be the obvious choice for a ratings bonanza.

    -newbies… Challenger roster / Cormier, Del Rosario,Sefo, etc… Pointless at this moment and there’s not enough time for any of these guys to develop enough to step to the plate, although I’d like to see Del Rosario get a big fight but this ain’t it .

    -Rogers…Most overrated novice skilled fat bastard this side of Japan…Rogers got a punchers chance against anybody right? But when that’s all you got you don’t belong in the top 10 HW’s. Rogers would look like a black Tank Abbott in the UFC ( no need to rematch)

    - AA… these days AA should just walk in there and laydown on the canvas cause that’s where he is going to wind up anyways…his time has passed. ( no need to rematch)

    Who else is there??
    Even if I missed someone on there roster does it even matter in terms of there talent level??? There’s no HW division there…It’s like being the best of the rest… It is what it is and i think ppl should just drop it because ain’t nothing going to change.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 12

  • burasco says:

    Wow, how much did the UFC pay you to write this? I love your writing usually, and I don’t comment, but when I see five ounces lose it’s journalistic integrity to this extreme it’s amazing to me.

    To claim that that the UFC has all the good fighters out there and anyone who isn’t in the UFC is dodging competition is hilarious. I say the UFC fighters are dodging the best competition out there by not going to strikeforce and not fighting each other.

    You think it is by accident that none of the top heavyweights have fought each other? It’s in direct response to the criticism a couple years ago that strikeforce had the best heavyweights.

    UFC is a promotion, no better, no worse than any other promotion. Don’t mistake a good hype machine for good fighters.

    Lame

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 13

  • Rece Rock says:

    Oh wait maybe Coker will get some help from DREAM’s elite HW division … LOL.

    Maybe after that crazy Australia card some of those cast offs won’t have anything to do…?

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6

  • Mad_Hatter_XX says:

    Here is how I see it:

    I don’t see Fedor “afraid” to fight anyone in the UFC. Fedor owns an undisclosed chunk of M-1 Global, none of us know the exact amount or the negotiated perks that he receives for co-promotion.

    UFC doesn’t want to co-promote because they don’t feel they need to for a successful event to happen. Fedor would like his co-promotion cut and his fight fee in addition to being able to do his Sambo things in his off time. Just a guess but, I doubt the Sambo thing was the deal breaker. UFC prolly didn’t want to be shaken down by M1-Global (kinda like Strikeforce is currently being shaken down).

    What other fighter fights under the m1-global promotion? anyone? *crickets* Fedor only. He is a big draw and currently consensus #1 HW but, having to co-promote for the rights to the only fighter fighting under that promotion seems kinda fishy to me.

    I doubt Fedor is really ducking anyone. If by some miracle he was booked against any of the top 4 UFC HWs I’m sure he would fight them. It really comes down to UFC not wanting some second rate promotion wanting to get a what I’m sure would be a substantial cut from riding on the coat tales of the UFC machine.

    You can blame Dana White or m1-global or Fedor or whomever but, I think it boils down to UFC didn’t need Fedor as much as the appearance the he needed UFC. I’m sure they would love to have Fedor but, the package deal with M1-Global was not needed or wanted.

    Well-Done. Thumb up 19 Thumb down 3

  • Rece Rock says:

    Correct- The UFC will never be in a need for any one fighter to have to change their business practices… No one fighter would be worth the problem of setting an unwanted precident going forward with other fighters during contract negotiations… You can’t be mad at the UFC for sticking to there standards and practices… maybe if SF stuck to a business model or plan they wouldn’t be in such a purgatory state… I mean for christ sakes they had some of the biggest female mma fights on network/ cable TV and yet they failed to develop a strong female division… It’s just an example of how SF pushes stuff half way then starts a new thing never seeing anything all the way through… I mean they have to be fucking morons running this promotion… In a few months the #3 promotion will have a awesome female tourney and probably bring more attention to the ladies then SF ever considered. Wake the fuck up and learn how to use your assets!

    I hope Fedor fucks them along the way and they go belly up – because they deserve it.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

  • Spoken says:

    so brock(4-1) is better than fedor(32-1)? everyone seems so confident of this. what makes him better? his wrestling backgorund? cuz fedor is a 4 time world sambo champion on top of several gold medals in european and russian championships. oh no, maybe its cuz he beat a 47 year old randy couture while outweighing him by 25+ lbs(blind estimate). remember, randy got beat by valentijn overeem. no offense to the guy, just sayin. maybe brock will grow into a better fighter than fedor, but hes got a long road ahead of him to do so. fedors legacy is unparallelled in mma and he deserves his recognition.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 6

  • slammy862 says:

    Liver Punch, you better get your facts straight before you get into typing hysterics.

    UFC offered him a ton of money, but his management turned it down because they wanted half the of the company.

    Nobody in their right mind would turn over their company for 1 fighter and your hero knew that.

    He’s not a god. You might think he is, but he can go down just like anybody else.

    You wanna worship him-go ahead, but do some reading about it first.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 13

  • danw84 says:

    slammy you should probably get your facts straight if you’re going to expect other people to do the same.

    I’m not going to make any assumptions about you, but it definitely doesn’t seem like you understand what co-promotion is or means.

    Does M-1 now own half of Strikeforce? No. Co-promoted events, like when Fedor fights on Saturday, are more even, but M-1 in no way got half of Strikeforce. It’s a co-promoted event, as in both promotions are putting it on. Thus why it’s called M-1 Global/Strikeforce, and why ALL other Strikforce events are just called Strikeforce, and why ALL M-1 Global events are called M-1 Global.

    Without knowing the business specifics and contracts, I’d be surprised if it went 50/50 even during the co-promoted events.

    I know Dana White told you that M-1 wanted half of the UFC, and I don’t blame you or the many other people who blindly took his word for it without any sort of question, but that’s simply not how it works.

    Really, read up a little on what you’re talking about first, and you will usually have a much more worthwhile conversation with someone.

    It definitely prevents looking like you’re doing nothing more than talking out of your ass.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 5

  • Niv says:

    Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez, and Dos Santos – “However any attempts to rank these four fighters is entirely arbitrary, because all four men have yet to face one another. ”

    You said it, entirely arbitrary and if Overeem does beat Fedor it would be entirely arbitrary to not raise him to the number 1 spot.

    I also have to laugh at the complete disregard for the names that Fedor faced recently by pointing to Sylvia, Arlovski (forgot about Brett) demise since fighting Fedor, as if his destruction of them played no part in their decline.

    Funny how that works, when AA as an example was on a five fight win streak ko’ing Big Country and Ben Rothwell who had taken BC out himself. He was riding pretty high, but oh well we’ll just throw out the obvious for our argument sakes.

    You guys can keep your arbitrary rankings, at least you half admitted it to yourself.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4

  • Rece Rock says:

    The only thing arbitrary is just how much of Fedors manhood can some fans fit into their mouths…

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 12

  • Niv says:

    Rece rumour has it Dana has a cock too.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 6

  • danw84 says:

    Rece is VERY well aware of the fact that Dana has a cock.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6

  • acampors says:

    “Before that Fedor toppled Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski, but one need only look at the trajectory of both men’s post-Fedor careers to see that those victories aren’t that big of an accomplishment.”

    Dont you get it? This is exactly why Fedor is the best. He doesnt just beat you up, he messes you up for life when he hits you.

    Sylvia was still ranked in the top 10 at the time of his fight, and Andrei Arlovski was reported everywhere to be the #2 heavyweight in the world at the time of their fight. After Fedor hit them, they became a shell of their former selves.

    Tim Sylvia does not lose to Ray Mercer unless he just got overwhelmed by Fedor.

    Did Brett Rogers actually knock out Andrei Arlovski to earn his high ranked status? Or was he just riding Fedor’s wake, fighting a shell of a former champion?

    People even need to temper their expectations about Alistair Overeem. Yes, his victory over Brett Rogers looked way better than Fedor’s did. But he had the benefit of fighting him second.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • Dufresne says:

    Okay, this is getting ridiculous.

    BigDave-
    Fedor didn’t get the title shot because of a few reasons, none of which were his desire to duck Overeem. Fedor was hurt for one thing and it was unknown how long it would take for him to heal, meanwhile Overeem hadn’t defended his SF belt in over two years so you know the management was getting a little anxious to get him back in the mix. Next off, M1 was trying to renegotiate Fedor’s contract with SF at the time and SF didn’t want to risk having Fedor win the belt and then walk away due to contract disputes so they went the safe route and had a matchup between two fighters that were solidly anchored into their contracts to prevent that.

    Madmax-
    I don’t think Fedor is ducking anyone. There is plenty of historical proof that shows that fighters coming from the ring have a hard time transitioning into the cage, that’s true. However, those fighters that struggle have almost universally been primarily strikers. Fedor is an incredibly decorated ground fighter, so while I think he might struggle to adjust a little, I don’t think it would be nearly as noticeable as in fighters like Cro Cop.

    burasco-
    Just because you disagree with an article doesn’t mean that it’s lacking in journalistic integrity and that it was somehow sponsored by an outside promotion. I never did read in the article where it said Fedor was dodging anyone, can you point out that line for me? I also don’t remember there ever being criticism a few years ago that SF had the best HW’s either. I personally think that the reason the top HW’s in the UFC haven’t fought has something to do with them all being fairly new to MMA and the fact that the current champ has been out for over a year due to illness.

    Mad_Hatter_XX-
    Well said.

    Spoken-
    No one thinks that Brock is better than Fedor based completely on their records. That’s a pretty dumb way to compare any fighter in a serious organization. Records are not a sure fire measure of anything except for how many times a fighter has competed. Yes Brock has a long way to go to become as established as Fedor, but from my viewpoint, most of the people that think he would beat Fedor believe this because of the massive size and strength difference. Fedor walks around at about 230 and Brock has to cut up to 35 pounds just to make the 265 limit. You are also absolutely correct in saying that Fedor deserves his accolades for everything that he has done for this sport and for his personal accomplishments.

    slammy862-
    No one knows how much the UFC offered Fedor. Dana said it was some gigantic sum but multiple other sources have come out saying it was significantly less than what he publicly stated. And M1 doesn’t come close to owning half of SF when they co-promote an event. That’s ridiculous. Co-promotion means that both M1 and SF share in the expenses to put the show on and in whatever revenue results from it. It does not mean that it’s a perfect split or even a large chunk. It could be considered a co-promotion as long as M1 foots ANY piece of the bill and receives ANY return on investment. That’s the difference between co-promotion and sponsorship, direct monetary return on investment.

    Niv-
    If Overeem were to fight and beat Fedor, the reason I wouldn’t be able to rank him as the #1 HW is because his other competition has not been on the same level. Defeating one fighter does not make you the best in your division, defeating the top tier fighters in your division consistently gets you the #1 spot. Sadly, outside of Fedor and possibly one or two others, the rest of the top 10 HW’s are not signed with SF. In fact a lot of top 10 HW lists contain only UFC fighters except for Fedor, Werdum and either Barnette or Overeem. Looking back at Overeem’s recent MMA record, I can’t really see where he’s beat anyone worthy of him climbing into the top 10 at all honestly.
    As for Sylvia, going into the fight with Fedor he was 1-2 coming off a loss and his only “name” wins were over AA, Vera, and Assuerio Silva. On the other hand, his losses came to Mir, AA, Couture, and Big Nog. So it seems to me that Sylvia was only rated as highly as he was because there really weren’t any talented HW’s for him to fight at the time, and every time he did fight legitimate threat, he lost.
    AA is another fighter that I don’t really know where to place. He was doing really well against Fedor, sadly he posses a glass jaw and Fedor evidently hits like a truck. Especially for his size.

    -All the penis jokes.
    Stop it. Grow up and act like mature adults. For God’s sake, we were just talking about hot 5Oz is one of the few places we can go to have an intelligent conversation and then this crap happens. If the only rebutal you can come up with is “he must want xxxxx’s nuts” go to mmajunkie or sherdog, they are filled with mindless insults of that nature.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 9

  • Dufresne says:

    And before anyone accuses me of being a mindless Fedor fan, try reading my first response, or any of my responses on this top from the last year or so.

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  • twyg says:

    Wow a lot of talk about cocks here, and I thought this was a mma forum. People can say what they want about AA and Silvia now but at the time they were both top five if not top three HWs. Then there is the Barnett fiasco; which you can’t blame on Fedor at all. Barnett was by the way either 2 or 3 at that time. Now both Fedor and the UFC made the right choice for themselves. It makes no sense for the UFC to let M-1 ride their coattails and pay them for it. Likewise why should Fedor and M-1 take less by not getting co-promotion if some idiot is willing to give it to them. Fedor isn’t afraid of anyone; he is just trying to get top dollar for his work like everyone else.

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  • Dufresne says:

    Well said twyg.

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  • slammy862 says:

    Hey, all I’m saying is that someone commented about how Fedor really wanted to sign with the UFC, but the UFC was scared of him.

    My point is that the UFC did pursue Fedor and the articles I’ve read said he was given a decent deal to fight in the UFC.

    If he wanted to fight in the UFC the opportunity was there.

    If some of the people here have inside information on the deal, then let’s get it out. I’d love to hear what went on behind closed doors. My guess is that you don’t know anymore than anyone else commenting here. And if you think DW is the only one in the business that can spew lies than you better find some better medication.

    You know Fedor’s boys do have a knack for ruining promotions.

    And again, if any of you “insiders” have some info. I think we all would love to hear it.

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  • danw84 says:

    slammy, who claimed to have inside information? You’re even putting it in quotes as if someone had actually said it. The only people who are acting like insiders are people like you who apparently know what’s going on in Fedor’s head.

    Just because an opportunity to do something you want to do is put in front of you does NOT mean that it is in your best interests.

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  • slammy862 says:

    It is if you want to prove you’re the best ever. Right?

    The only way to prove you’re the best of all time is to kick the shit out of the current crop.

    So, you sign a huge contract, fight 4-5 fights and the legend becomes legend…and adding millions to his bank account.

    “I know Dana White told you that M-1 wanted half of the UFC, and I don’t blame you or the many other people who blindly took his word for it without any sort of question, but that’s simply not how it works”

    Sounds like insider info to me.

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  • danw84 says:

    We don’t know if all he cares about is getting paid. There is NO WAY that Strikeforce is paying him more than the UFC offered. So right there, it implies that money isn’t everything to him.

    And having a little bit of business knowledge is by no means insider info.

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  • slammy862 says:

    If UFC would pay him more, than why not sigh up.

    More money…Bigger fights…Whats left?

    Only one choice.

    That would be the best business decision. Wouldn’t you agree?

    Bigger audience, more money, better fighters. Easy call.

    Unless he doesn’t think he can retire undefeated…Back to square one.

    Easier fights in Strikeforce. MUCH harder fights in UFC.

    I don’t have to be in Fedor’s head to see how they are thinking and neither do you.

    You’re smart enough to see which way the wind is blowing…and it’s not because DW is satan and the Russians are sweet and cuddly.

    It’s because he runs the risk of becoming irrelevant. That’s how Royce Gracie ties into him. Everybody thought Royce was a god, until he lost and now nobody remembers him as a god, just decent for his time.

    I believe Fedor is worrying about the same thing.

    Hey, just my opinion, jack.

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  • danw84 says:

    You’re forgetting that when Fedor and Dana are negotiating, there is more than just 1 business owner at the table.

    What’s best for Fedor the fighter, may not be best for Fedor the share holder of M-1 Global. Right now M-1 is going to get exposure as a legitimate (not interested in that debate) promoter on Saturday involved with a large show. But, if Fedor was fighting at UFC 116, all M-1 would be is another brand pasted on the octagon that, like many brands people don’t recognize there, will go largely unnoticed.

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  • slammy862 says:

    More money is more money for all.

    Just like a stock. Just make money dammit.

    Unless they feel that their stock is in peril, why not produce as much money as you can before the stock retires?

    The brand means nothing, son. It’s a joke. They only have 1 asset…Fedor. He goes down-they go down.

    That brand is known for fucking up other brands..it’s poison. But you already know that.

    You just love red devils..and there’s nothing wrong with that…comrade.

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  • danw84 says:

    I don’t follow you. You seem to be arguing Fedor should make more money because more money is best, when what my opinion has been that it looks like Fedor DOESN’T necessarily care about the big fight paychecks.

    Fedor can’t fight forever. It’s true he’s their biggest asset, absolutely, and it is imperative they use him to build their brand and gain exposure as much as possible while he’s around. That’s why co-promotion is SO important. Whether they are or aren’t, they NEED to get in people’s heads as another one of the big boys, because again, Fedor will not always be there to draw them attention.

    Also, what brands has M-1 killed? I’d just like to see your list.

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  • slammy862 says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Weak-Sauce. Thumb up 0 Thumb down 13

  • mcvojp01 says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Weak-Sauce. Thumb up 0 Thumb down 12

  • danw84 says:

    So slammy, you’re calling me an idiot with a list that has a grand total of ONE promotion that M-1 “killed.”

    One.

    You said M-1 is known for “fucking up other brands” and yet you have 1 single example, that it could easily be arguable that M-1 showed up, Barnett didn’t. One time that M-1 has been linked to a promotion going under. That in no way implies a trend.

    I do appreciate your use of insults to further prove you aren’t worth debate though. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but it’s clear you’re in over your head in any sort of intelligent discussion. Have you checked out MMAJunkie? You might fit in better with that crowd, especially with your “mma sense.”

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5

  • slammy862 says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Weak-Sauce. Thumb up 0 Thumb down 12

  • LiverPunch says:

    My god Slammy.
    He wanted half the UFC?.
    He and M1 wanted to co-promote. The UFC said no. The UFC wanted him to sign the UFC’s exclusive contract and Fedor said no. SF said yes we will co-promote and thereyou have it. I would guess that M1 is making more money with SF than the 0$ they were going to make with the UFC. Fedor has a huge interest in M1 succeeding. You just make shit up dude. There are a few reasons why the UFC doesn’t co-promote and only signs big names to exclusive contracts but fear of having a UFC big name lose to an outsider is a big reason not to do it. I have read about Fedor and that is why it astounds me when people say he ducked the UFC and the rest.

    Here is a Quote of Fedor’s in 2008

    -Numerous times have I read mister White’s statements on Internet concerning myself. In my opinion, allowing yourself to say those things is not a sign of a gentleman or a grown man at all! If he candidly wants to prove himself right then let my fight with Randy happen or let me face the reigning UFC champion Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. In the future I wouldn’t want to hear those statements in my address ever again and I won’t tolerate that.

    My last fight in Japan proved that I’m ready to fight anybody with any height advantage, skillset or experience. I have fought and still wish to fight the best athletes. The Randy fight is my goal number one right now, he’s a great fighter and this is a very unfortunate situation when too strict and one-sided UFC contracts don’t let this fight happen.

    The whole world is eager to see me fight your champions, people don’t want to listen to your press-conferences. I’m signed with M-1 Global and this promotion is ready to organize such fights under our banner or in co-promoted events.

    Fedor Emelianenko.

    So as you f#cking try-hard idiots that talk shit about Fedor without actually using your own thought processes and letting your love for the UFC rule your brain. THINK!!!!!!!!!!! for your fucking selves.Dana has an agenda when he talks and so do UFC associates. They wont fight him either but he has invited them to. Honestly the amount of people that agree with you too. It is so sad when it is untrue and you have such support and people who agree. I lose faith in the idea of democracy. So many people who are so fucking stupid and easily led. Please learn to think reasonably without such bias.

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  • Niv says:

    Dufresne – “Niv-
    If Overeem were to fight and beat Fedor, the reason I wouldn’t be able to rank him as the #1 HW is because his other competition has not been on the same level.”

    Here’s the problem I have with this, everyone gets together and finds every way possible to criticize Fedor for doing what’s in his interest. Everyone states in order to be the best you have to beat the best, well aside from the haters Fedor is still recognized as the best; why employ a double standard saying if Overeem beats Fedor he shouldn’t be ranked number 1?

    That makes no sense to me at all, if you go out and beat the best you should simply be considered the best until proven otherwise.

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  • LiverPunch says:

    UFC top HW’s

    Lesnar
    Carwin
    Valasquez
    Dos Santos
    Mir
    Nog
    Nelson
    Gonzaga
    Rothwell?
    Kongo?

    Non-UFC top HW’s
    Fedor
    Overeem
    Werdum
    Barnett
    Rogers
    Sylvia
    BigFoot
    Kharitonov
    Arlovski
    Aleksander

    Now if you include Lashley, Gracie, Buentello, Kiril, Monson Fujita, K1 fighters Such as Hunt and Schilt, the rest of those lesser ranked out of the UFC and hew blood. There is no reason why Fedor cannot find good opponents. It is just a shame that the UFC will not allow it’s fighters to challenge or be challenged by non-UFC fighters. Thats right dim wits, the UFC wont allow it!. Those outside the UFC are all for it but the UFC wont. let it happen

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  • twyg says:

    Liverpunch is right the UFC won’t allow its fighters to fight outside compition, and why should they? This is a business first and a sport second people. Why risk devalueing an asset that you have spent time and money building into a marketable property? The fact is that everyone is doing what is in there own best interest. The only solution is to have just one monster org. that has all the top fighters in every wieght class under contract. Now before everyone kills me with the we need multiple orgs. to keep prices down arguement; you have to pick your poisin. Either multiple orgs. with fair prices or one org. that can settle all disputes. That one org. will in the long run become more of a governing body or have to get an anti-trust exemption from the goverment like major league baseball. There it is kids, now please act like adults and stop with the petty name calling.

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  • LiverPunch says:

    Co-promotion twyg?. what about multiple orgs that have champions but there is also a unifying belt like WAMMA for example so that perhaps the UFC champ has the WAMMA belt and the Bellator champ wants to challenge etc. I know it is a long shot and the UFC wouldn’t agree but I like the sound of it.
    But in an ideal world the 1 org is best but…I want rings and cages and differing sizes in both depending on where they are ie. Japan has a small ring and America has a large cage, Russia has a huge ring and England and Australia have small cages or whatever. Same goes with rules ie Japan allows knees on the ground with no elbows but America and Russia etc etc.
    It would add to it. Ya know like Lesnar is fighting Fedor in Russia, in a ring with knees on the ground after defeating him in America in a cage.
    I dream of the day when it is possible to have all parties fighting each other but I can not see just the 1 org happening. 1 governing body yes and a unifying belt yes but 1 org…I doubt it. That is why I hate the idea of exclusive contracts etc. Because the UFC simply does not have all the best fighters and therefore, I as a fan am robbed of ever seeing who is the undisputed champ in any weight class and whether he can take out that huge new dude that is not in the same org. I love MMA and seeing the ultimate face off, but for me we don’t have that in most of the divisions, and even WW and LHW can be argued really. I mean how good is Mo or Mousasi and what about Diaz at WW.
    This SF card is free and so are dreams

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  • Rece Rock says:

    I’m sorry but WAMMA is a complete joke.
    All the guys running things that had knowledge & credibility (ie: Pat Miletech, Sam Caplan,etc) had walked away a long time ago… Who wants a belt that’s bedazzeled with purple jewels anyway : )

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

  • freddy80 says:

    Fedor’s career accomplishments remain unparalleled. He has out-grappled elite wrestlers and jiu-jitsu fighters and out-struck great strikers. His more recent victories against Silvia, Rogers and Arlovski are nothing to sneeze at. Arlovski was widely ranked at #2 in the world when they fought. Arlovski’s subsequent slide does not change this fact: one cannot retroactively denigrate Fedor’s opponents because of their post-Fedor performances!

    That being said, I agree with the author’s reasoning that the winner of the likely Lesnar/Carwin/Dos Santos/Velasquez tournament will probably lay claim to the #1 world ranking when the dust settles. Fedor’s upcoming competition is simply not as highly ranked. Of course it also depends on how the fights play out: if Fedor finishes both Werdum and Overeem, and the winner of the UFC “tournament” squeaks out narrow decisions, Fedor might still rank as #1.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  • Niv says:

    Dufresne- “As for Sylvia, going into the fight with Fedor he was 1-2 coming off a loss and his only “name” wins were over AA, Vera, and Assuerio Silva. On the other hand, his losses came to Mir, AA, Couture, and Big Nog. So it seems to me that Sylvia was only rated as highly as he was because there really weren’t any talented HW’s for him to fight at the time, and every time he did fight legitimate threat, he lost.”

    Ok Sylvia had won 6 straight fights, lost to Couture when he could still bring it and then beat an undefeated Vera who everyone was talking about getting a title shot before he fought Big Nog and then Fedor. Hardly on a down swing at that time, and there’s no way any credible argument can be made that AA wasn’t good at the time Sylvia beat him.

    AA as stated before was on a five fight winning streak which included ko wins over Big Country, Rothwell, and a decision win over Fabricio Werdum before he ran into Fedor, hardly on a decline.

    Now we talk about judging by the competition faced well Carwin has two wins against known fighters(nothing more to say), Velasquez biggest win is against Big Nog who is without a doubt at the end of his illustrious career, Ben Rothwell and a Cheik Kongo that Velasquez showed he didn’t possess the power to put him away.

    JDS if you ask me has faced the stiffer competition with one win over a guy that was next in line for a title shot in Werdum. He beat a washed up Cro Cop, Gilbert Yvel and Gonzaga, so in my books he’s actually the guy to beat.(In the UFC)

    Lesnar what’s there to say, he’s definitely a physical monster but again his biggest win was against Couture 18 months after leaving and at 46 years old (a natural 205lb fighter to boot), Frank Mir clearly an enigma in the sport and a Heath Herring who didn’t matter in the HW picture for at least 5 years prior. Let’s not forget Mir was ko’d first round by Vera and Rodriguez just prior to his first Lesnar fight.

    Sorry but the word arbitrary was the most appropriate word in this entire article, ranking this current crop of UFC HW’s higher than others outside the promotion is strictly arbitrary.

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  • danw84 says:

    12-5 MMA sense slammy? What does that even mean?

    That’s just mean to call me a pussy.

    Anyway, well said Niv and Liver Punch, totally agree.

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  • gstringwife says:

    LiverPuncher

    its your FANTACY tell it how you like – And dont be rude we dont agree but thats ok no need to be rude you would do a guy in the ass and be the kind of guy not too be nice enough to give a reach around

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6

  • Dufresne says:

    -Niv
    I understand where you’re coming from in saying “to be the best you have to beat the best.” The problem is that in every sport that does rankings, that only holds true if you’re already top 5. Say a number 1 ranked team in the NCAA loses to a team ranked 7th or so. It’s still highly unlikely that they’ll be ranked #1 the next week. Same thing for MMA. Edgar beat BJ Penn who was the consensus #1 LW, but how many people actually have Edgar ranked as #1 now? He’s ranked top 5 in almost all rankings I’ve seen, and even as high as #2 in a few, but I haven’t seen him at the top spot yet. And to be honest, unless he wins this rematch I won’t have him put there either. Same kind of scenario here for Overeem. He would have to beat Fedor, and then at least one other top 5 HW for me to give him that spot.

    As for Sylvia: of those 6 fights, the first 2 were against people that I had to look up to even figure out who they were, and even then I couldn’t find anything on the first one. The 3rd was against Assuerio Silva so I’ll give you that one. The next was a very impressive win against a dangerous AA after getting rocked early. Then he fought AA again, but this time AA injured his leg second round and couldn’t throw kicks or move nearly as well which resulted in the fight turning into an incredibly boring, and poorly fought decision. Then was Jeff Monson who was 11 inches shorter than Sylvia and who despite having damn impressive grappling credintials, decided to try and box with Sylvia ignoring the 12 inch reach disadvantage. The next win was after losing the belt and was over Vera, who broke his hand in the first round and still made it a tough fight. And yeah, everyone thought Vera was the next big thing, but that hasn’t exactly panned out. So I guess I need to modify my original statement to say “it seems to me that Sylvia was only rated as highly as he was because there really weren’t any talented HW’s for him to fight at the time, and ALMOST every time he did fight legitimate threat, he lost.”

    For AA: I agree with you. I just don’t know where to rank AA in the grand scheme of things. One day he’s knocking out Buentello in 15 seconds and the next day he’s getting dropped whenever anyone touches his chin. He’s got good Sambo skills, good striking, usually brings it the entire fight, but then he’ll go out and either get one shot KO’d or put on a boring decision fight. A few years ago he was a pretty dominant HW force, but since he got KO’d by Sylvia in the first rematch he just hasn’t been the same. He did look good against Fedor early on, and I personally had him winning that fight up until he tried to get fancy and caught one on the chin.

    I agree that Carwin hasn’t fought a lot of big name opponents, but he did make a pretty remarkable comeback against Gonzaga. Combine that with the fact that he’s undefeated in 12 fights with none making it out of the 1st, he’s got solid wrestling credintials, he’s huge, and the combined fact that he’s 35 and that the next two HW’s in line are both under 30 and I can see why they matched him with Lesnar. I know age is a shitty thing to consider for title shots, but when you have someone with Carwin’s KO power, wrestling, and size that’s nearing the usual age limit of an MMA fighter I can see why they would want to cash in now.

    Cain is a young fighter, and if you’ll pardon the cliche, he looks better every time we see him. He’s also undefeated and other than his fight against Kongo, none have gone to decision. And even in that decision win he showed some positives. Not that he out wrestled Kongo, that’s not impressive. I’m talking about taking those shots from a very powerful striker and having either the mindset or the autopilot to change levels and get the takedown.

    I’m personally a huge JDS fan. He’s even younger than Cain, and as you’ve pointed out I think he’s taken on more dangerous fighters. Cain has mostly fought strikers (O’Brien, Stojni?, Rothwell, Kongo) that have no ground game or takedown defense, and as a very talented wrestler he’s been able to take them out of their element. Yes he beat Big Nog, and while Nog has a record of 32-6-1-1 with only two (T)KO’s to his name, both of those (T)KO’s have happened in the last year and a half. He’s got to be slowing down. JDS on the other hand is a striker who’s fought a mix of very high level bjj (Werdum and Gonzaga) and high level strikers (Struve, Cro Cop, and Yvel). The only knock on him is that the big name strikers he’s fought are a bit past their expiration date.

    Lesnar is a physical freak, and his UFC wins aren’t overly impressive (although I would like to point out that Randy was only 1 fight removed from beating Sylvia when he took on Lesnar) but if you look at the UFC’s HW division at the time, there weren’t really any other choices for him at the time. He lost to Mir whose next fight was for the interim title against Big Nog in December of ’08. Big Nog had just beaten Sylvia who then left the UFC. And that pretty much left Couture, who was in a contract dispute, and Herring, who he fought and beat. That left Couture, who he fought and beat in November of ’08 for the title. Next fight was obviously unification of the belt, so he got his rematch with Mir and won.

    And yes, all the rankings for the new HW’s are arbitrary for at least the next 6 months to a year. Once they get a few more fights under their belts we’ll have a better idea of where they sit in the grand scheme of things. But as I’ve said before, there is no way to objectively rank the top fighters in relationship to each other when they are spread out between two or more organizations.

    For the HW’s outside of the UFC, Overeem fights once very 2+ years, so even if he is top 5 material I can’t justify putting him there unless he beats Fedor. Fedor is great and I expect him to win against Werdum and Overeem if they ever fight, and then I’m not sure where any of the others fit. Barnett is tainted with all the positive steroid tests, so we don’t even know how naturally talented he is if he’s been using his entire career. I already went over AA. Sylvia has gone 2-1 post-Fedor, but the loss was to a 48 year old Mercer and took 9 seconds and the wins consist of a guy who’s 7-3 (with 7 of those fights going against people I can find no record on) and another who was 2-0 going into the fight. BigFoot Silva looks to be a legitimate threat and with another win I can easily see putting him in my top 10. And lastly, I’m not sold on Brett Rogers; he hits hard, but he seems to be a one trick pony.

    Lastly, I hope you didn’t take that as a personal affront, I was simply going through the list of posts and responding to things that I disagreed with.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  • Dufresne says:

    Oh, and gstringwife, what in the hell is a “FANTACY???”

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  • LiverPunch says:

    I’m not apologizing to anyone here. Anybody who just completely ignores facts and makes up shit to suit an agenda is a f#cking idiot. I’m not naming anyone so you decide. Yeah AA was shit after beating Werdum Sylvia, Nelson, Rothwell, Buentello in his previous 10 fights and having only lost to Sylvia in his last 15. Yeah Fedor is ducking the UFC after attempting to neg co-pro and trying to fight the UFC HW champion Randy Couture untill the UFC sued Randy. Yeah what f#ccking ever dick heads.

    gstringwife believe what you want to…oh sorry it is obvious that you already are managing to ignore everything that doesn’t suit you. Burnt any books you don’t agree with recently?.
    .
    Rece WAMMA was an example and you know it.

    If you guys don’t want to see the best compete in one way or another…well I hope you’re happy. It amazes me when you bring up facts like the UFC preventing the Randy Fedor fight Fedor haters steer well clear, either not even going there or saying stuff (stupid stuff) like “well if he really wanted to he would have followed him to the UFC”.

    What a bunch of fools. It is not a matter of agreeing with me, it is a matter of accepting facts and not avoiding them if they do not match your world view. “name calling”?. If the shoe fits…

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  • LiverPunch says:

    Oh by the way slammy…
    Did you know that Carwin is only getting 40,000 for this main event, with another 40 if he wins?
    All that money er… how do you say … where to put it?
    The biggest main event of the year and one of the participants could walk away with only 40 grand.
    Now with all his expenses and his trainers etc , take out food and living…wow he could probably take his wife out to dinner and a movie with whats left.

    P.S. anybody heard this also?

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  • Niv says:

    Dufresne I appreciate the effort and no I don’t take any of it personally but I have to disagree with your assessment, though you at least articulate your feelings on the matter well.

    I think we both have documented where we stand on how we rate these fighters from both sides. I think Mir is completely overrated as I explained he had been ko’d first round twice just prior to his first Lesnar fight, that should be proof enough the UFC was sacrificing a known name to hype a new product. Mir did the unthinkable and the rest is history.

    I like the fact you recognize that Carwin is older than Fedor and I’m sure you are aware that Brock is one year younger. That means the imaginary he’ll keep getting better indefinitely statements(not claiming you specifically made it) just won’t happen, time will catch up to him as well and most likely sooner than later. Randy Couture was the most legitimate test Brock has had and he’s a 205 lb fighter, we can’t get away from that. The fact that Couture’s next fight after Sylvia was Brock is relevant that in the fact that there was a significant lay off and he was 46 years old.

    I honestly have no idea how Couture does it at his age still. I imagine every fight now is taking a bit of his soul away, it must be gruelling.

    Regardless I will tap out on the subject as quite honestly I’ve invested more time than I care to on this subject, it is what it is. Fedor fans (like me) believe he’s the best ever and still the best, others feel he’s not anymore. On that note good night and I hope some of you will enjoy the fights tomorrow.

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  • YetiLee says:

    I forgot how many Fedor nut-huggers were on these boards, Heaven forbid if anybody says anything negative about the overhyped Russian. I will say it again Fedor was ONCE great and was ONCE a real fighter and he fought real competition, but what has he done in the last few years? He beat Sylvia and Arlovski when both careers were fading, then he fought and had some trouble with Rogers. Before those 3 fights he fought Hong-Man Choi, not exactly a top 10 fighter. You have to go back to 2005 when he fought an in his prime Cro Cop, or 2004 when he fought Nog, and both those guys took him to decision. Now he is fighting Werdum, a fighter that Fedor himself says is not a challenge. So please tell me how the guy is ranked #1 in the world when he hasn’t fought anyone tough since 2005?

    So go ahead fedor fans give me the “thumbs down” because you can’t handle the truth, but you guys are living in a fantasy world if you think the guy is anything more than a shell of his former self. Like I said last time, if you continue to not challenge yourself and you continue to fight fighters who are not even a threat, then how in the world could you expect your skills not to deteriorate?

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

  • Twiztid Ninja says:

    I have to agree with Yeti on this one… well said

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  • gstringwife says:

    Fedors WAS good now he’s just skating to retirement fighting has beens and I don’t know who’s too bad what a shame UFC is where the primary talent seems to be hopefully Strykforce starts to raise there own talent at a higher level and stops collecting so much sloppy seconds from UFC and handing them to FEdor the LAst Dust pan AND THEN CALLING HIM THE BEST OF THE BEST

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4

  • gstringwife says:

    High competitive High level winning fighters

    1-BROCK 2-SHANE3 -Junior Dos Santos4-Alistair Overeem5-.Cain Velasquez, -6Randy Cotoure,7-Mir,
    8- Fabrico Werdum-9- Gabriel Gonzag- Roy Nelson

    Low Level competition or losing streaks

    FEdor-Brett Rogers-, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira,Tim Sylvia- Andrei Arlovski,Cro cop,big foot, Maybe Werdum will end up here what they all have in common most where UFC has been losing streaks not my opinion but facts, Fedor is the King of Losers Hahahaha

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 8

  • danw84 says:

    Wow, can one of you guys make a new argument? Yeah we get it, you think Arlovski and Sylvia and Rogers weren’t worth anything to be beaten. You’ll think Werdum wasn’t either. Then you’ll think Overeem wasn’t.

    You simply DO NOT listen to the reasoning of why and how they were ranked high, you just listen to Dana White tell you that Fedor isn’t the best and fights nobodies.

    Think for yourselves, and AT LEAST please please PLEASE make a new argument other than presenting the same one over and over and over as if it’s yours and as if it’s new.

    YetiLee, congrats on reiterating what has been said repeatedly in this thread. gstringwife way to go, you think that beating Mir, Gonzaga and basically nobody else (other than Cain beating Nog, and Brock beating a guy 60+ pounds lighter) is worth something, while beating former champions is worthless. Good work, your opinion is very valued.

    What exactly has Werdum done to be ranked above Fedor in your list? You hate Fedor, fair enough, but to simply say “nope not good” makes you look and sound like a child.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  • Adam Tool says:

    :)

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  • gstringwife says:

    Fedor Lost HAHAHAHAHAH lets see him beg- Fabrico Werdum remember lost at UFC then came to Strykforce where does that rank Fedor now if anywhere

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  • gstringwife says:

    danw84 take your lips off Fedors testicles hehehe kidding aside,

    when you see someone with talent like Fedor it is extremely frustrating and annoying when he fights the guys in the top 20 and not in the top 5 and then be called number one in the world.

    Its not about UFC or Strykforce I want them both to succeed, you all know what Im talking about, and at this point Strykforce doesnt have the high end fighters at the top of there league yet, as we all know its where you go when your kicked out of the uFC -(I hope that changes) but in the mean time to wrap it up if you want to be the best you HAVE TO FIGHT THE BEST)

    What is the best defined as -Guys who are performing at a high level and winning in dramatic fashion by dominating the other guy.

    For a quick example Brock – demands to be thrown in with top guys right away and is outspoken about it weather you like him or not hes there to bang.

    Everything the fans ask for Fedor blames or stands BEHIND this M1 Global

    Get rid of M1 Global FEdor and go fight the top 5 ranked guys and Ill be a Fedor fan once again at least go fight Alistair Overeem –By the way is Alistair Overeem the only hW in Stryforce that actually looks like he prepares to be in shape for a fight, most of them arguably look like they when to a cake eating contest before arriving to fight.

    Strykforce Birth your own top fighters throw competitions contest’s tv reality shows something do something to compete please

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  • JabCrossHook says:

    When you’re a HW its hard to look big and cut, not many HWs look like that. Alistair looks big and cut because he was skinny before and bulked up. Other than that there aren’t a lot of HWs like that except maybe AA and Todd Duffee (kind of). Shit even Cain isn’t cut up hes just big and strong.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  • gstringwife says:

    I agree to a cerain extent take cain your last example you can tell he tains now campared to fedor or Bret Rogers come on cake eaters LOL , If you had the wolrd looking at you wouldnt you want to at least look as close to the part as possible

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  • Dufresne says:

    Werdum didn’t leave the UFC because he lost, he left the UFC because he was at the end of his contract and negotiations failed, i.e. he wanted more money than they wanted to give him. A quick google search of “Werdum leaves UFC” will confirm this for you.

    And as much as M1 irritates me, there’s no way Fedor is leaving them: He’s got a lifetime contract with M1 and is a partial owner of the company.

    Fedor has been at the top of the HW division for a long time, but in reality he’s built more like a modern LHW. He weighs in at the fights in the 130 lbs range and I really doubt he’s cutting weight to do that. I know cutting weight is tough and it seems to me that it only gets harder as you age, but I wouldn’t mind seeing what Fedor, and for that matter Cro Cop, could do at LHW.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

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