The After Party – “Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Silva”

It was the beginning of the greatest heavyweight tournament of all-time and it may have been the end of the greatest heavyweight of all-time. The fans that tuned in to see the big boys slug it out and put on exciting fights with finishes got their time’s worth. The fans that tuned in to see Kelli Hutcherson were more disappointed than Vadim Finklestein. It was one of the most memorable nights in MMA history though and it had nothing to do with Strikeforce’s poor attempt to re-create the PRIDE opening ceremonies.

Antonio Silva defeated Fedor Emelianenko by TKO (Doctor Stoppage) at 5:00 in Round Two

It was supposed to be the triumphant return of Fedor Emelianenko. Instead it was the coming out party for Antonio Silva and the possible end of a legend.

The fight started like almost every Fedor fight. He came out slow and just waiting to unload. Silva used an effective jab and tried a couple of leg kicks but Fedor avoided them. Then Fedor unleashed one of his famous flurries and the crowd went crazy, anticipating a knockout. Silva ducked under and covered well though before landing some very good right hands that looked clean but you wouldn’t know it given Fedor’s lack of reaction. Silva did a nice job using his size and the cage to his advantage as he constantly clinched with Fedor, put him up against the cage, and wore him down. Fedor managed to threaten with a guillotine during one clinch attempt, which led to Silva going for a takedown only to end up on his back. That’s when it looked like we would see classic Fedor. He looked to rain down his brutal ground and pound but when Silva wouldn’t let him, Fedor went to plan B. He tried a kimura but Silva escaped and got back to his feet. At the end of the round Silva managed a takedown but it was too late for him to do anything with it. A close first round and one that certainly boosted the confidence of Silva. The second round started with Fedor looking for his trademark right hand but Silva timing it, ducking under, and getting a takedown. The next five minutes were almost unexplainable. Silva went from half guard to side control and then to mount with absolute ease. From mount he dominated Fedor. Silva rained down punches and hammerfists at will as Fedor did nothing but try to block and give up his back. The ref took a good look at things but Fedor was still moving so the fight continued. Silva went for an arm triangle that looked tight but Fedor managed to survive. Near the end of the round Silva tried for a kneebar but Fedor escaped and went for a heel hook but Silva gave a thumbs up and the round ended. The fact that Fedor not only survived the round but showed a sign of life at the very end gave Fedor fans hope. Fedor’s right eye was swollen shut but this was Fedor and there were only five minutes left so there was no way they could stop the fight, right? Wrong. The non-Kris Kringle looking doctor determined that Fedor could not continue and it was over. Silva raised his hands in glory while Fedor could do nothing but stand there with his usual stoic look, contemplating calling it a career.

I’m not a guy to kick a fighter when he’s down because I live in America and soccer kicks are illegal but I truly anticipate the retirement of Fedor and wouldn’t blame a bit should he go through with it. No one can take away from the fact that this time last year, Fedor was considered the best fighter of all time. Then something happened. Maybe he just started fighting better competition, maybe his heart wasn’t into it anymore, maybe he couldn’t adjust to the cage, maybe he didn’t like fighting on Showtime, maybe he got tired of being an M-1 Global puppet and wanted a way out, only he knows the truth, but whatever happened you can just tell that he’s not the same guy that dominated all those years in Japan. The most shocking thing about Fedor’s performance was his inability to do anything with Silva on top of him. I understand that Silva is a big guy but the way he easily passed to mount and controlled Fedor spoke more about Fedor’s technical inabilities than anything. Should Fedor fight again, one thing he has to do is change up his training. Like BJ Penn, you can only improve so much when you’re by far the best guy in the gym and you spend the majority of the time dominating in sparring. That’s an overlooked reason as to what makes guys like Georges St. Pierre and Anderson Silva great. They’re constantly training with top guys and getting pushed in the gym by fighters just as good as them. But as I said, I think Fedor will retire. If I had to guess, my guess would be that his heart just isn’t in it anymore. He’s cemented his legacy as one of the best all-time, he doesn’t appear to need the money, and he’s not someone who craves attention. When you’re only fighting because you love to fight and that loves vanishes, it’s time to call it career.

All the credit in the world goes to Silva. A lot of people wrote him off and underestimated him, which was very foolish, and he proved all the doubters wrong. He had the perfect game plan for this fight. He threw straight punches, covered well, and used his size to his advantage. You couldn’t have scripted a better performance by Silva. He didn’t catch Fedor in a submission early in the fight, he didn’t knock him out with the first punch thrown, and he didn’t do just enough to win a decision. He dominated Fedor and beat him up worse than Clubber Lang’s beat down on Rocky Balbao in their first fight with M-1 Global playing the role of Mickey. Here’s how crazy MMA is and why it’s such an unpredictable sport: Silva barely won a split decision against Ricco Rodriguez, couldn’t finish Andrei Arlovski, and almost lost to Mike Kyle. Despite those facts though, he was the first person to stop Fedor with strikes. Things like that make smart people like me look less smart and average people like Adam Tool look stupid. Up next for Silva will be the winner of Alistair Overeem vs. Fabricio Werdum. While Silva stated that he wants Overeem next and Werdum in the final, something very unlikely to happen, Overeem is a poor match up for Silva. While Werdum does hold a win over Silva, it’s just a better style fight for him compared to Overeem.

Predicted Next Fights: Fedor vs. Retirement – Silva vs. Overeem/Werdum winner

Sergei Kharitonov defeated Andrei Arlovski by KO (Punches) at 2:49 in Round One

As popular as ever, Andrei Arlovski tried to regain his championship form. Unfortunately his one big weakness can’t be fixed and Sergei Kharitonov took advantage of that.

Arlovski looked as good as he’d ever looked very early in this fight. He was moving well, getting in and out with his punches, and really tagging Kharitonov. He was making a mistake in trapping himself against the cage but he was getting away with it. Arlovski’s biggest flaw showed up. Kharitonov caught him with a right hand that rocked Arlovski and followed it up with a series of right hands that eventually put him down. Standing over Arlovski, Kharitonov landed a couple of punches on the dazed Belorussian to put him out cold for the third time in four fights. Kharitonov celebrated while Arlovski just lied there motionless.

Arlovski is only 32 years old and very popular with the fans but his career may be over. While I don’t think he’ll retire, I do think that he’ll strongly consider it. In seven of his nine losses, he’s been knocked out cold. It’s not a situation like Chuck Liddell either where he once had a great chin that has just taken so much abuse over the years that it can no longer take a punch. Arlovski has never had a great chin and the more he gets knocked out, the chances of it happening in future fights increases. He was doing well in this fight but when you can’t take a punch and you’re known as a striker, it’s tough survive in this sport. Maybe when he signs his next contract he can have a clause that states that he’ll only fight grapplers but most heavyweights hit hard and Arlovski just won’t be able to survive. Arlovski is one of the nicest fighters I’ve ever had the pleasure of meeting and I’d like to see him do well again but his weakness is something that he can’t improve. Maybe he just needs to take a long break, work on his grappling, and try and re-invent himself as a grappler. It might be the only choice he has if he wants to continue to compete.

It wasn’t a great performance by Kharitonov as he was eating a lot of clean punches prior to the finish, but he stayed patient, waited for his opening, and capitalized on Arlovski’s weakness. It re-affirmed the world that Kharitonov does have knockout power and is a real dark horse in this tournament. He looked to be in solid shape, which I thought would be the most telling thing prior to the fight, and he did what he needed to do. As long as he continues to stay in good shape, he has a real shot in this tournament. He’ll face the winner of Josh Barnett vs. Brett Rogers and I’m sure he’s hoping for Rogers to win because he’s considered the weakest competition in the tournament and plus that’s a good match up for Kharitonov given his striking and well-rounded ability compared to Rogers.

Predicted Next Fights: Arlovski vs. Jeff Monson – Kharitonov vs. Rogers/Barnett winner

Shane del Rosario defeated Lavar Johnson by Submission (Armbar) at 4:31 in Round One

In a battle of heavily hyped prospects, Shane del Rosario took that next step to stardom while Lavar Johnson heads back to the drawing board.

This fight went about as expected. Johnson was looking for that one big punch and while he tagged Rosario a couple of times, Rosario shook it off and fought on. Not wanting to get into a slugfest, Rosario used his speed and kicks to avoid the power of Johnson. Eventually Rosario got the fight to the ground, where he quickly mounted Johnson and locked on an armbar for the victory. Rosario remained unbeaten while Johnson suffered his first loss in eight fights.

Johnson is a good heavyweight to have around because he always brings it and none of his fights ever gone to decision. I’m honestly not sure how good he is or how good he can be given his age but at least you know that he’s going to put on a show when he’s on the card. He did what he could in this fight but Rosario was just too technical and quick for him. I think Johnson will end up back on the Challengers Series events and used as a gate keeper type fighter to see which heavyweights are ready to make the leap.

Rosario is legit, folks. He looks better in every fight and he has a great attitude about the sport. He’s a good technical striker, although his defense could use some work, and he’s solid on the ground as well. It was rumored that the winner of this fight would be the first alternate in the tournament but now it appears that a mystery committee, likely consisting of the same people who decide that it’s a good idea to keep making movies starring Nicolas Cage, will be deciding tournament replacements. Rosario wants to stay active this year, which is a good move given his lack of inactivity in recent years. Maybe Strikeforce is unknowingly to us holding a lower level heavyweight tournament featuring Rosario, Chad Griggs, Valentijn Overeem, and Daniel Cormier. Even if they’re not, they have permission to steal the idea from me.

Predicted Next Fights: Johnson vs. Villante – Rosario vs. Griggs

Chad Griggs defeated Gian Villante by TKO (Strikes) at 2:49 in Round One

Chad Griggs and Gian Villante slugged it out and in the end, only Griggs was left standing.

If you like two guys just going out there and slugging it out then this was the fight for you. Griggs and Villante decided that the best defense was a good offense so they repeatedly punched each other in the face, much to the delight of the crowd. Villante landed a nice head kick, that busted the ear of Griggs but otherwise they were content with clinching and dirty boxing. Finally Griggs dropped Villante with a right hand, Villante got up, got dropped again, and didn’t get back up. Griggs proved that it was no fluke that he beat Bobby Lashley.

I’m not sure what happened to Villante in this fight but he certainly did look like the fighter he was hyped to be. Maybe the bright lights of Strikeforce got to him or maybe he’s not who many thought he was. I’m more inclined to believe that the pressure got to him and that he got caught playing Griggs’ game but the next fight will show the truth. Villante is a natural light heavyweight but he seems to enjoy fighting at heavyweight so I assume that he’ll stay there, unless he takes another beating like he did this past Saturday.

While I’m still not 100% sold on Griggs, he showed me something in this fight, mainly that he can take a good punch and slug it out with anyone. Maybe he’s not ready for the top heavyweights and I still believe that working a second job as a firefighter hurts him but he’s slowly gaining a fanbase and if he keeps putting on fun fights, the people will continue to like him. I’m still waiting for Alison Brie to appear in his corner, and when that happens he’ll be unbeatable, but until then he’ll just have to survive without her. For the record, Griggs has absolutely no idea about the NBC show ‘Community’ nor the character ‘Starburns’ on the show.

Predicted Next Fights: Villante vs. Johnson – Griggs vs. Rosario

Valentijn Overeem defeated Ray Sefo by Submission (Neck Crank) at 1:37 in Round One

Valentijn Overeem showed that you need more than just striking in MMA, making quick work of K-1 legend Ray Sefo.

This fight went about as expected. Overeem was willing to test things out on the feet for about a minute or so and then when the time was right, he easily put Sefo on his back, moved to side control, and finished things with a neck crank. It was a strong Strikeforce debut for Overeem but not exactly a career defining moment given his competition.

I’m not sure that you’re a fan of MMA if you don’t like Sefo but it’s pretty obvious that he’s not a MMA fighter. He had his chance on the feet early but couldn’t quite find his range or Overeem’s chin. Once the fight hit the ground, Sefo was a fish out of water and it showed quickly. While I don’t think Sefo is done fighting, I do believe that he’s done fighting MMA. He’s 40 years old and not going to pick up on the ground anytime soon, nor does he want to. I think he’s happy working as a striking consultant at Xtreme Couture and occasionally competing in K-1. More power to the guy if he’s content with that because there are plenty of unhappy fighters in the sport so it’s always nice to see a guy who is always all smiles.

Overeem didn’t really prove anything in this fight but he did what he needed to do so he should be credited for that. He didn’t play a striking battle with Sefo for too long because he knew that’s where Sefo could catch him so he took him down and finished him with a neck crank. Overeem is still a mediocre fighter with conditioning and commitment concerns but at you’re guaranteed a quick fight when he steps in the cage. Since I’m sold on my lower level heavyweight tournament, even if no one else is, I’ll say that Overeem faces Daniel Cormier next. It would be a good step up in competition for Cormier and a good marketing win should he pick up the victory.

Predicted Next Fights: Sefo vs. MMA Retirement – Overeem vs. Cormier

The heavyweight grand prix is off to a great and very surprising start. This event will be remember for a long time, especially if it truly is the last time we see Fedor compete in MMA. Even if he does compete again, this event will still be remembered for being the beginning of something that is hopefully very special for Strikeforce and something that could allow them to take that next step in the MMA world or this event will be remembered for the start of what could be a large nail in the Strikeforce coffin.

The next MMA event is Strikeforce Challengers Series 14 so I hope everyone is prepared for The Walk Out.

PHOTO CREDIT – ESTHER LIN / STRIKEFORCE

45 COMMENTS
  • Rece Rock says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Weak-Sauce. Thumb up 9 Thumb down 21

  • qat says:

    I do not want to bash you, but this text has some parts in it that are horrible to read. I am not referring to the content, but to the style of writing. I don’t care about little misspellings here and there, but sentences in a journalistic text should not be painful to read. :/

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 8

  • MCM says:

    I vote “yes” on the mini tourney.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

  • fanoftna33 says:

    That mini tourney does sound cool. Griggs sure is becoming something of a spoiler isnt he. Del Rosario looked like a seasoned veteran in there as he tired out Johnson and got the finish all to easily. Johnson will be back though as he is a resiliant guy. Cant wait to see the next installment of the HW tourney.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  • Guthookd says:

    I called it.

    I said Fedor would loose a fight in the tourney and then one more, which would lead to his retirement. That third loss will come, you wait. He’ll have one more fight.

    You bastardos all gave me a thumbs down. LOL. I knew it was the end.

    Great card. Poor Arlovsky. Sergei has my attention. So does Big Foot. I was impressed.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 14

  • fanoftna33 says:

    Also I wouldnt have picked Antion Silva to beat Fedor in a million years. He is a guy who couldnt do anything to Werdum, got crushed standing with a LHW in Kyle, and couldnt hurt Arlovski. BUT that is why they have to fight the fights and styles really do have a lot to do with it. Silva lookes like he is just starting to peak, and at the absoulte best time for him. Sergi looks very slow and plodding but he has a serious chin and some real serious power, if he has a decent ground game he could really spell trouble for his next opponent.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3

  • JOEgun says:

    Bigfoot simply followed a great gameplan against Fedor. He used is size, strength, and good ground skills to win. Perhaps the fight would have gone differently if Fedor wasnt at such a size disadvantage against a ground n pound bjj guy.

    Oh well

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4

  • boomnutz says:

    I don’t know if Sergie looked slow and plodding or just had absolutely no respect for AA…it could honestly go either way, but i don’t know what the commentators were talking about Sergie def. showed better, more technical striking, one of the commentators suggested it and the other shot him down, probably based on reputation, but you can clearly see that Kharitonov had a better stance, kept his hands up, and threw way better combos

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5

  • silkshot61 says:

    See what happens when Fedor doesn’t fight a can.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 18

  • Angry Mike says:

    Pride isn’t completely gone because Shogun is still fighting, at least for now. But Fedor’s loss certainly marks the passing of Pride for all practical purposes. Fedor was its greatest and last remaining champion, and two successive losses suggest he’s at or near the end of his career.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5

  • hindsightufuk says:

    sergei has always had great boxing, far superior to Arlovski,
    when he first came on the scene i thought he was gonna be one of the greats, almost unstoppable, hasnt quite worked out that way but he is one dangerous guy to stand up with

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  • Rich S. says:

    I’m not going to say Fedor is done. For all I know, he may be, but I think it’s ridiculous to say something like that when he is only on the first losing streak of his entire 30+ fight career. Perhaps a move to 205 is his best bet right now. There are bigger, more skilled guys than Bigfoot in this division (although I think Bigfoot is incredibly talented) just waiting to maul Fedor.

    Arlovski/Kharitonov went exactly how I thought it would. It ended in the first round, with Arlovski looking pretty good before going to sleep. It’s truly a shame that AA has lost his chin. I’ve been a fan of Sergei for quite some time, so I’m confident in saying I don’t think he’ll last if he gets matched up with a good grappler. But, in a striking bout, he stands as good a chance as any Heavyweight striker, if not better.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

  • bigbadjohn says:

    LOVE to see a Kharitonov/Overeem final. But I don’t like Kharitonovs chances against Barnett if Josh fights as well as I’ve seen him.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

  • qat says:

    Yeah you cant count Barnett out, but when was the last time he fought top competition? He has not been very active lately, but im really curious to see him again.

    Well-Done. Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

  • fanoftna33 says:

    I dont see why you got blocked Rece Rock, that rematch acually would make sense now, both on a losing streak, both with something to prove. You never know they may have one last great fight in them.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    “Silva barely won a split decision against Ricco Rodriguez, couldn’t finish Andrei Arlovski, and almost lost to Mike Kyle. Despite those facts though, he was the first person to stop Fedor with strikes.”

    Your talking as if Silva sucks but was still good enough. GSP lost to Serra and couldn’t finish Kos even though he broke his eye socket 10 secs into rd 1. Whats your point?. Unlike Arlovski and Ricco, Kos has never been a champion. Anderson Silva lost to Takase and Gono and couldn’t finish Leites. Tim Sylvia was the only guy to stop Arlovski for 6 years and that includes guys like Rothwell, Nelson, Buentello, Eilers, Freeman, Matyushenko and Werdum. He didn’t stop Fedor with strikes the doctor stopped it because he could not see in between rds. Besides TK stopped him with strikes first anyway, it just so happened that it was an elbow that cut him.
    Schilt, Crocop, Nog, Sylvia, Rogers, Herring, Arona, Babalu, TK, Arlovski =cans? or silkshot61 = idiot?.
    Before this fight all those that are saying he isn’t good or whatever would have been saying that BigFoot was a can. BigFoot wins and everyones saying see. A few of us here have picked BigFoot for the dark horse and gave him a very good chance of winning because he is now 16-2 with wins over Fedor, Arlovski, Ricco, Eilers, Kyle and Cabbage. In the fight to Werdum he won rd 1 and broke his hand in the process. He lost 2 and 3 on all 3 judges scorecards. His other loss was when he was dominating the hard hitting Pele and he got sloppy and was caught by a big shot, he was dropped but recovered quickly but the ref had called it. He could have fought on but the stoppage was not the worst. Ricco has gone 16-2 since losing to Silva and is a former UFC champ. The guy is for real. Qat I hope you are ready to eat your shorts if BigFoot wins this thing.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    “Pride isn’t completely gone because Shogun is still fighting, at least for now.”

    No it isn’t considering A.Silva, W.Silva, Rampage, Mousasi, Hendo, Misaki, Gomi, Shogun, Kharitonov, Barnett, Overeem, Aoki(?), Sakurai, Kawajiri, Melendez, Hansen, Werdum, Big Nog, Little Nog, Crocop, Yvel, Schilt, Aleks, and Lombard are all Pride vets , not to mention the dozens of other Pride vets I haven’t mentioned that are still fighting.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3

  • boomnutz says:

    Logic, i think what he meant was that the last of the Pride champions is done…Only Rua has any glory left from pride…

    As for Fedor fighting cans, I have to agree if you want to consider Werdum (UFC cast off) and Big Foot quality competition I’ll give you that (although I don’t think the body of work is very convincing in either case, Werdum’s been a journeyman for the most part, and BigFoot is just now getting his shot) but other than that Fedor hasn’t fought any serious competition since Cro Cop in 2005….

    AA sucks, he has a glass jaw, who did Rogers beat??? AA, oh yea that’s it, he doesn’t count, Tim Sylvia, ha he’s a joke, got knocked out by Ron Mercer, I don’t care if AA anf Sylvia are former UFC champs, in case you didn’t know that was years ago and they’ve sucked ever since.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3

  • boomnutz says:

    yea Rece I have to agree, although at this point I think I would knock AA the fuck out, but I think he did well enough the first time to get another shot, and they’re still big names, maybe Dream will make it happen

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  • Niv says:

    boomnutz, I’m curious why do people always feel compelled to say that Werdum was a UFC castoff when that is simply untrue?

    When Werdum and the UFC agreed to part ways it was because the UFC asked to renegotiate his contract after losing to JDS. The JDS fight is the worst shape I’ve ever seen Werdum in (entirely his fault), but all he needed to do was win and he had the next title shot as he was promised. Because he lost, the UFC wanted to cut his pay. Funny if that were M1 renegotiating we would never have heard the end of it, but the UFC can do no wrong I guess?

    Werdum is a top HW and has fought some very tough and talented fighters and won. He is considered the most decorated BJJ HW ever and brings real credentials to the ring. He is very capable of winning this tournament as he has past wins over Alister Overeem, Fedor, Anotonio Silva, Aleksander Emelianenko and Gabriel Gonzaga as examples. His 4 losses have all been to top competition in Sergei Kharatonov, Big Nog, Arlovski and JDS, so please if you want to criticize the guy think fairly about it.

    Personally based on his skill level he’s capable of beating any of those guys that he lost to on any given day, that’s the one thing we should all know about this sport.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

  • Angry Mike says:

    My point is that although there are active Pride alumni still fighting, they are not the dominant fighters in MMA. At one time they were. Shogun is UFC light heavy champ, but he’s had numerous injuries and knee surgeries, and it’s an open question how long he can continue. Furthermore, he went through a tough period with several unexpected losses before beating Machida. Twice.

    Fedor was the great Pride champion. He may continue, and undoubtedly he can still win. But his mystique has diminished, and there’s no credible argument that he’s the top heavyweigt in the world. Time passes and the sport moves on. Pride is receding into memory. That’s either good or bad depending on your perspective, but it’s a fact nonetheless.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  • Hey logic Silva lost to Chonnan not Gono….
    If Fedor decided to retire, good for him. If not…good for him with a big BUT/IF….Fedor is was and always will be the man, but if he continue to fight for fightings sake, I’d be scared he’d become the next Tyson..or even worse and God forbid…the next Shamrock.

    Good for Silva, nothin else, good for him, great job, way to make his way forward. I just hope he doesnt feel he’s got nothin else to prove and gets lax and loses next go round.

    Griggs is fun to watch and go Python!

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  • BigDave says:

    Werdum is really the only legit guy in this tourney thats left silva is the second on the list but can’t match up with Werdum. Sergi, and Rogers are one step up from cans, and Barnett is a roid junky who with his track record should never be sanctioned to fight anywhere that actually wants a clean sport. Oh and I can’t forget Overhyped I mean Overeem.. This guy is an impressive looking dude no doubt but lets look at it objectively. His biggest mma wins where against belfort back in 05-06. since then he beat buentello and and rogers oh and before that he is 1-1 against karitonov.. Werdum will win this tourney as i said from the start.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 6

  • boomnutz says:

    Niv, I wasn’t saying Werdum isn’t a quality figher, but up until this point in his career he’s been somewhat of a journeyman, gatekeeper, every time he strings together impressive wins and seems close to a title shot, boom he loses, and don’t throw his conditioning in there. Champions and great fighers alike, don’t let conditioning hinder their performances…

    aside from Fedor (because this is the point of debate) his biggest wins are Silva and Gonzaga, the jury’s still out on Silva, and Gonzaga is another gatekeeper, oh yea and Overeem, but no one can get a good take on Overeem, so i don’t even want to bring that topic into the discussion

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  • qat says:

    @logic
    Haha, im not quite sure if that was me or my hispanic imposter. ;)

    Well, if Silva should win vs. Werdum/Reem and in the final, he surely earned it. But yeah i was surprised, not just that he beat Fedor, but how he did it. I can see him giving Overeem some problems.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  • Niv says:

    “Champions and great fighers alike, don’t let conditioning hinder their performances…” Actually that is the one reason he may not be a champion right now, so it is very relevant. It was entirely his fault and has no-one to blame but he was next in line for a title shot in the UFC.

    Since then he has been very impressive and I would rate Werdum’s win over Fedor’s brother a much bigger win than Gonzaga.

    My protest to your comment though was in the often used term UFC cast off, that simply was not true. I can’t stand how that term has been used over and over again as if it were true and is used to discredit Werdum as a legitimate HW, that’s all.

    Big Dave come on ar eyou serious Werdum is the only legitimate fighter left in this tournament? That’s ridiculous to say the least and this is the first time I’vwe ever heard of Kharitonov called a can, wow!

    I agree this sport needs to be cleran so you must really be bothered with Carwin and Lesnar as fighters then I suppose. I mean Carwin was confirmed to be the guy named in the steroid scandal and Brock was arrested before under supsicion of steroids but was confirmed to be using HGH instead (hardly clean). If you have no protest about these incidents I’m not sure why that would be, just curious?

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

  • Niv says:

    Sorry about the typo’s, a little busy sneaking this in at work.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  • boomnutz says:

    I guess that’s my point Niv, that up until this point he shouldn’t be considered a truly elite fighter, and IF he had come into that fight in good condition, maybe we’d be having a different discussion right now (although, i doubt it cuz, JDS is an animal!!!!!), an elite fighter works his ass off to avoid such losses…

    regardless, i don’t want to knock the tournament because imo I feel this is about the only respectable thing SF has offered in recent memory, and it’s the only consistent offering they’ve had for us fans. I would agree that Kharitinov is not a can, I honestly thought he was mad old until I looked up his stats on Sherdog before this tournament…

    I will say this though, that much of this tournament is predicated off of reputation (Barnett, Fedor, Overeem, AA, even Rogers) I’m glad it will finally sort out a few questions, is Rogers really a good HW? How much does Barnett have left in the tank? Can Overeem do it against quality competition? So on and so forth…

    at this point i think i’m going with Kharitonov to win it all

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  • boomnutz says:

    or Barnett…although I hate to say it, but how you can not be impressed with Overeem’s striking

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  • Guthookd says:

    I pick Barnett.

    He was my first pick and I’m stickin with him until he looses.

    Everyone just make a single pick here! Who’s your pick?

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  • Niv says:

    I’m going with Overeem shutting everybody up.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  • moosebaby02 says:

    I never came on here saying that Silva was going to win cause I didnt have any time but my wife got a great valentine’s gift last night thanks size, brute strength, and great BJJ. that was the deciding factor
    So thank you. Silva I knew you could do it.

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  • MCM says:

    Silva was always my pick, but I’d like to see how Rogers does. (I tend to pick underdogs…..and not very successfully)

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  • moosebaby02 says:

    me to MCM. Im lucky Silva pulled it out cause my wife would have been PISSED me losing that bet. me being drunk or not

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  • moosebaby02 says:

    for the tourney im going with Niv and picking Overeem

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  • LiverPunch says:

    ” i think what he meant was that the last of the Pride champions is done…Only Rua has any glory left from pride…”

    I think you will find that Overeem , Melendez , Lomabard and a few others are champions and Fedor has lost twice now so where did the champion thing come from?..

    Since you are in the mood for correcting people SuperDave I will correct you by telling you that Nelson did not have a kimura on Arlovski when the fight was stood up , he had let it go. Go and watch it again. It was a bad stand up but 4-5 mins later Arlovski TKOed Roy. Was it the defining point in the fight? who knows but since the fight went for another 4 mins before Arlovski put a beat down on Roy, I would hardly think so. Boomutz Arlovski beat Nelson and Rothwell via stoppage and then lost to 4 guys that are not UFC fighters. I really don’t have time for people that say things like ever since Arlovski and Sylvia left the UFC they have sucked. No it is just that they have fought a higher class of fighter or been caught by surprise like GSP was with Serra. This is not an attack on the UFC, JDS or whoever it is just a fact. The UFC had a lower standard of fighter back then. I think it is higher now but it is hard to gauge. I don’t think a great deal of Lesnar, Carwin, Nelson or Struve. I think that Mir is a beast on his day but can falter. Nog is getting old and has taken a beating but JDS and Valasquez look the goods. I think the UFC has the depth in HW fighters but I think that BigFoot and Kharitonov would slot into the UFC top 10 with ease. They are both more accomplished and better skilled than Rothwell , Nelson and Carwin. Werdum was a UFC top 10 or maybe even top 5 when he left the company in 2009 so to call him a cast off is a little dumb. He had beaten 2 guys coming off title shots via stoppage and had lost to Arlovski via Arlovski impersonating Machida’s punch and run and he lost when JDS , the top 5! , caught him early with an uppercut. So if you lose to JDS you are a cast off? is JDS that bad?. I thought he was top 5 now.
    This article acts as if Fedor got destroyed. Fedor had 3 sub attempts lost via doctors stoppage and I think he won rd 1. He defended 2 fully locked sub attempts by a BJJ black belt also.
    Boomnutz and BigDave need to open their minds a little. Calling a top 5 a journeyman is really stupid. I don’t know about anyone else but it just makes you look like you either don’t have any idea what you are talking about , you are a UFC mark or both.

    “This guy is an impressive looking dude no doubt but lets look at it objectively”

    I can see he is a K1 kick boxing champion , 260 pounds of lean muscle , a very good ground fighter , one of the most experienced HWs in the world and ranked top10. Don’t say K1 means nothing in MMA because you are saying striking means nothing , it does mean a lot. He would out strike any other HW in MMA probably , that means something. He destroyed Rogers. Rogers was thought of as a top 10 at the time but has dropped to the mid teens. He destroyed Duffee too. I expect him to win but BigFoot or Werdum could take it. Werdum is not going to win. He wont be able to take Overeem down and Overeem won’t play games like Fedor. Bas Rutten has him at #1.
    Honestly to say Kharitonov and Rogers are a step above cans?. How the hell do you come to that conclusion?.

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  • LiverPunch says:

    Werdum has beaten Fedor , Overeem , Gonzaga and Big Foot who the hell has Nelson , Rothwell , JDS , Carwin and Schaub beaten?.
    How many guys that are in the top 10 now has JDS beaten?. 1. Werdum has beaten 3. Oh but JDS’ 1 win over a present top 10 was over a “journeyman” who doesn’t deserve to be there so that doesn’t really count. How about Carwin? 1. Ohh but his win was over Mir who unlike Werdum (7-3) is 6-4 from his last 10 so he must be a journeyman too.

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  • LiverPunch says:

    “BigFoot or Werdum could take it.” should read “BigFoot or Barnett could take it.”

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  • boomnutz says:

    LP i’m talking about Pride champions, all their great champions have lost, Rua who won the Pride Grand Prix, is still doing his thing, and Hendo’s flirting with greatness and relevancy, but other than that most of the stars from Pride have faded…I acknowledge all the guys you mentioned, but they weren’t the big names of Pride, they’re just Pride veterans, who have done well since

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  • boomnutz says:

    LP, you’re starting to irk me…who had Rogers top ten??? You like to name off competition who did he fight before his title shot a glass chinned AA, and a loss to Fedor, who else??? you have a very contradictory style of arguing…

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  • boomnutz says:

    btw…Werdum is a journeyman, he’s gone from Pride to UFC to SF and where ever else, and despite what you may think this is the closest he’s ever been to a title shot, he floats in and out of relevancy…to me that’s a journeyman

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  • Rece Rock says:

    Fedors handlers have given interviews where they are briniging up roids as an excuse for Fedors loss… But the real crazy shit is that one of them suggest a pyschological interference that can’t be seen by the naked eye effected both fighters?!?!!? What the fuck? Are they seriously insisting some one or something tapped into the fighters minds… Fedor needs to get rid if these guys and that crazy bitch that translates 2 fuck emm all.
    Fighters who stare at goats…

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  • LiverPunch says:

    Do facts irk you Boomnutz?. Facts that don’t suit you that is.
    This site had him top 10 and most others did too. He is no 12 on fight matrix now.
    I consider his resume close to that of Carwins.
    I suppose Hendo , Arlovski , Werdum , Sylvia and Nick Diaz are UFC cast offs.
    Here is some quotes from Wiki on the definition of a journeyman fighter. See if you think this applies to a top 5 Werdum.

    “Journeymen will often serve as opponents for young up and coming prospects and will often step in at late notice should a fight fall through”

    “a fighter who has adequate boxing skill, but does not have the caliber of a contender or gatekeeper.”

    “They will fight all the time, anywhere, in order to make enough money to get by”.

    “Journeymen are said to have little or no expectation of winning fights against contenders or gatekeepers”

    I hope this doesn’t irk you but Werdum is not a journeyman and has only lost 4 fights. James Thomson is the guy you are thinking of.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • hindsightufuk says:

    i’m pumping for Sergei

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  • boomnutz says:

    using you’re own definitions:

    “Journeymen will often serve as opponents for young up and coming prospects and will often step in at late notice should a fight fall through”

    Kind of like when he was served up to Gonzaga, Vera, and then JDS…granted he won the first 2 he was supposed to be used as a stepping stone to get Vera and Gonzaga back on track

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