“Strikeforce: Overeem vs. Werdum” Live Results

Strikeforce takes center stage for the first time since early April with the continuation of the Strikeforce Heavyweight Grand Prix. Coming to us from the American Airlines Center in Dallas, Texas, it’s “Strikeforce: Overeem vs. Werdum”. As always, FiveOuncesOfPain.com will provide complete results including a round by round recap of all the televised action.

The event kicks off at 8PM EST on HDNet with the broadcast of the entire preliminary card. Then at 10PM EST, the main card goes live on Showtime.
“Strikeforce: Overeem vs. Werdum” is headlined by the final two Strikeforce Heavyweight Grand Prix Quarterfinal match-ups. In the main event, top striker Alistair Overeem battles top grappler Fabricio Werdum and in the co-main event, the charismatic Josh Barnett takes on heavy hitter Brett Rogers. Also on the card is a lightweight showdown with title implications as KJ Noons will trade leather with Jorge Masvidal.

PRELIMINARY CARD

Brian Melancon vs. Isaac Vallie-Flagg

Round One: Melancon landed some huge strikes and then just threw Flagg to the ground. Melancon dominated on the ground, roughing up Flagg with strikes before getting the back and looking for the rear naked choke. Flagg was able to escape and get to his feet though. Flagg started to have success with kicks to the legs and body but Melancon did a good job countering with the right hand. A lot of clinching in the final minute and a half of the round with neither man gaining control but Flagg doing more damage. A strong first half of the round for Melancon. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Melancon.

Round Two: All in the clinch early in the round. Flagg landed some good knees to the body and thighs and looked for the takedown but Melancon managed to stay on his feet. Every time they were at a striking distance, Melancon would land big counter punches with power but Flagg constantly got the fight to the clinch, controlled the position and did damage with knees and elbows. Very close round but a slight edge to Flagg based on all the clinch control and damage. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Flagg.

Round Three: Flagg opened up early with some kicks and then stuffed a takedown attempt by Melancon. Flagg continued to have success in the clinch with knees and elbows but Melancon was able to throw him to the ground.Melancon had mount and did some damage with strikes but Flagg worked his way to his feet, where they were right back in the clinch. Melancon had more cage control in the clinch but Flagg continued to have success with elbows and knees. The ref broke them, which led to a takedown from Melancon and back control as the round ended. A close round but that takedown at the end may have swung things in Melancon’s favor even though Flagg did more damage. Since I judge more on damage, I’m giving the nod to Flagg. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Flagg and the fight 29-28 for Flagg.

Isaac Vallie-Flagg def. Brian Melancon via Split Decision

Nah-Shon Burrell vs. Joe Ray

Round One: Burrell got an early takedown and avoided an armbar on the ground. Burrell got to half guard but Ray threatened with a kimura. Burrell was able to escape though and remain on top. Ray almost locked up another armbar but Burrell escaped again. Every time Burrell was able to escape, he attempted to make Ray pay with hammerfists but Ray covered well. Ray got to his feet, went for a takedown, and almost got stuck in another kimura, which Ray turned into a very tight armbar on the ground but Burrell somehow escaped again. The round ended with Burrell on top. Ray was attacking the whole time off his back and almost locked up a number of submissions. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Ray.

Round Two: Burrell really picked apart Ray on the feet early with quick combinations but then went for a takedown. He got it but Ray was immediately attacking with a kimura. Burrell avoided it and landed some good strikes on the ground. Ray got up and went for a takedown of his own but Burrell reversed it and ended up on top. The ref stood them up but Burrell put Ray on his back again. Burrell spent the rest of the round on top landing short strikes. A good round for Burrell. Ray seems very tired and was a lot less active off his back in this round. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Burrell.

Round Three: Burrell picked apart Ray on the feet early with his speed and accuracy. Ray looking very tired. Ray got cut near the right eye due to the jab of Burrell. Burrell got a takedown but Ray grabbed a guillotine. Burrell managed to escape though and stay on top. Burrell spent the final minute or so on top, landing hammerfists and elbows before letting Ray up and hitting him with a right hand. Another good round for Burrell on the feet and with the takedowns. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Burrell and the fight 29-28 for Burrell.

Nah-Shon Burrell def. Joe Ray via Unanimous Decision

Conor Heun vs. Magno Almeida

Round One: Heun got an early takedown and Almeida immediately went for a variety of leg locks but Heun survived them all. Almeida ended up on top after a scramble and Heun immediately went to the rubber guard. Heun used the rubber guard to rough up Almeida with short punches and elbows before the ref stoof them up. Heun landed some good kicks back on the feet while Almeida was a little too wild to land anything. Close round but an edge to Heun based on activity and damage. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Heun.

Round Two: Almost all in the clinch early with Heun controlling but doing no damage. Almeida landed a knee on the break and then knocked the ref down as he got shoved away, which drew a big cheer. Almeida caught Heun with a left hook that had Heun turning his back. Almeida tried to jump on him and grab a rear naked choke but Heun survived and got a takedown. Almeida gained guard on the ground and locked on a very tight armbar but Heun somehow didn’t tap out. Heun somehow got out and ended up in reverse cowgirl on the back of Almeida, where they remained for the final few seconds. Very good round for Almeida, rocking Heun a bit and locking on a close armbar. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Almeida.

Round Three: Almeida’s punches coming very slow to start this round while Heun is moving better but isn’t really finding the target. Heun got a takedown and Almeida immediately went for an armbar. Heun escaped but Almeida ended up on top. Almeida moved to side control and locked up a d’arce choke. It looked deep but Heun again found a way out and ended up on top and in guard. Heun really turned it in the final minute and a half with punches and double hammerfists. The round ended with Heun on top swinging away. A very close round. I think Heun may have stolen it by turning up in that final minute but Almeida’s two submissions were so tight. Heun’s arm might be broken. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 Heun and the fight 29-28 for Heun.

Result: Connor Heun def. Magno Almeida via Unanimous Decision

Gesias “JZ” Cavalcante vs. Justin Wilcox

Round One: Both guys trying to find their range early. Wilcox got a takedown off a kick but JZ popped right back up. Wilcox more active with his hands but nothing landing too clean for him. JZ not really getting anything going on the feet. Wilcox had a lot success with the jab-cross combination. Not many highlights in the round but a solid round for Wilcox. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Wilcox.

Round Two: JZ caught Wilcox with a finger to the eye very early in the round and Wilcox immediately went down holding his eye. The doctor came in to check Wilcox. Wilcox says that he can’t see and the doctor waves off the fight. The finger was accidental as Wilcox was moving in and JZ was backing away with his hands open.

Result: Justin Wilcox & Gesias Cavalcante fight to a No Decision (Accidental Eye Poke)

Todd Moore def. Mike Bronzoulis via Unanimous Decision

MAIN CARD

Valentijn Overeem vs. Chad Griggs

Round One: Griggs hit an early throw from the clinch and ended up in half guard. Overeem tried for an americana but Griggs pounded his way out. Griggs continued to pound on Overeem, who turned and covered up, until the ref jumped in and stopped things. On replay we see Overeem tap out from the strikes but they rule it a TKO.

Result: Chad Griggs def. Valentijn Overeem via TKO Round 1 (Strikes)

Daniel Cormier vs. Jeff Monson

Round One: Cormier much quicker on the feet early, doing a nice job slipping and countering with his hands. Monson ended up with a cut on the top of his head early, possibly from an accidental head butt. Cormier doing a really nice job mixing up his strikes, throwing kicks and going to the body with his hands. Monson not offering much on his feet other than a jab. Great first round for Cormier. Monson having a lot of trouble with Cormier’s speed. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Cormier.

Round Two: Cormier opened up with a couple of big flurries that had Monson backing up but surviving. Monson landed his best strike of the fight in the middle of this round, a short right hand off a clinch break. Monson still having success with the jab but for every jab Monson throws, Cormier returns fire with two or three punches. Cormier just continued to dominant Monson on the feet with his speed and diversity as the round closed. Another great round for Cormier. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Cormier.

Round Three: Cormier again lighting Monson up on the feet. Cormier rocked Monson a couple of times but Monson hung in there. Monson went for a takedown but Cormier easily shrugged him aside. Cormier rocked Monson with a right hand but once again managed to survive and Cormier didn’t want to follow him to the ground. More speed and accuracy on the feet by Cormier as the round ended. Clean sweep for Cormier and all on the feet. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Cormier and the fight 30-27 for Cormier.

Result: Daniel Cormier def. Jeff Monson via Unanimous Decision

K.J. Noons vs. Jorge Masvidal

Round One: Masvidal came out quickly with his hands by Noons responded with some good strikes of his own. Noons trying to work the body early. Masvidal trying to time Noons ducking with a knee and caught him a couple of times but Noons hung tough. Masvidal scored with a takedown and Noons looked for a kimura but Masvidal got out. Noons managed to get to his feet. Noons cut on the forehead. Noons landing a good left hook and body shots while Masvidal having success with the jab and straight. Big head kick dropped Noons. Masvidal pounced on him and tried to finish but Noons survived until the end of the round. Big round for Masvidal. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Masvidal.

Round Two: Noons going to the body early while Masvidal doing a nice job with leg kicks. Masvidal got a takedown but Noons was immediately back up. Masvidal got another takedown though and this time was able to keep Noons down and rough him up with elbows and punches a bit before Noons got up. Masvidal scored with another takedown but ended up on his back after he slipped trying to get up. He got up though and landed another big knee before the round ended. Another good round for Masvidal with the takedowns. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Masvidal.

Round Three: Noons dictating the pace early in this round, pressing forward and letting his hands go while Masvidal is just moving away. Noons continues to be the aggressor and he’s landing some decent strikes but Masvidal doesn’t seem fazed. Masvidal scored with a takedown, and while he didn’t do too much damage, he stayed on Noons and didn’t allow him to his feet. Close round but the takedown and late round control probably swung it in Masvidal’s favor. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Masvidal and the fight 30-27 for Masvidal.

Result: Jorge Masvidal def. KJ Noons via Unanimous Decision

Josh Barnett vs. Brett Rogers

Round One: Barnett went for an early takedown off a kick and Rogers fought it off for a bit but eventually Barnett picked him up and slammed him down. Barnett worked his way to mount but Rogers did a nice job controlling his posture and not taking too much damage. Barnett landed some short punches but didn’t do a ton of damage despite being on top for almost the entire round. Still a dominant round for Barnett. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Barnett.

Round Two: Barnett landed a left hook early that had Rogers clinching. In the clinch Barnett immediately threw Rogers to the ground and mounted him again. Barnett locked on an arm triangle and forced Rogers to tap out.

Result: Josh Barnett def. Brett Rogers via Submission Round 2 (Arm Triangle)

Alistair Overeem vs. Fabricio Werdum

Round One: Werdum comes out striking early. Werdum looking for the takedown but Overeem sprawling and just allowing Werdum up. Overeem going to the body with punches and knees. Werdum trying to pull guard but Overeem gets right back to his feet. Werdum falls to his back after eating a left hook and then invites Werdum down. Overeem throws Werdum down and then he begs Overeem to follow him down but Overeem doesn’t. Overeem finally follows Werdum to the ground with 15 seconds left in the round and nothing happens. I have no clue how to score that round. Werdum actually landed the better strikes but all his takedowns were stuffed, even though Werdum was fine with that. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Werdum

Round Two: They trade knees in the clinch. Werdum lands a good combo and then Overeem throws him to the ground. Werdum gets up and gets a takedown off a kick but Overeem is right back up. Werdum presses forward with strikes and lands some good dirty boxing before going to his back. Werdum getting up very slowly. Overeem landing some big punches now. Werdum pulls guard and has Overeem in the guard but can’t do anything. Overeem eventually gets up and lands a big knee. Knee to the body by Overeem and Werdum pulls guard again Nothing happens on the ground and the round ends. This time Overeem did some damage and Werdum couldn’t do anything with him on the ground. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 for Overeem.

Round Three: Werdum comes out strong with punches and knees but Overeem hangs in there. Werdum trying to get the takedown but Overeem stuffs it. Werdum again landing well, then he gets up, and Werdum goes down but I’m not sure that he’s actually hurt. Nothing happens on the ground and Overeem gets up and allows Werdum up. Werdum again tagging Overeem on the feet but the second he gets hit, he goes down and allows Overeem to fall on top of him. Werdum trying to work on the ground but nothing happening. They stand and Werdum continues to tag up Overeem with punches before pulling guard and trying a kneebar as the round ends. I once again have no clue how to score it. Gotta go with Werdum as he was more active and seemed to do more actual damage. No clue how this fight goes though. 5OZ scores the round 10-9 Werdum and the fight 29-28 for Werdum.

Result: Alistair Overeem def. Fabricio Werdum via Unanimous Decision

88 COMMENTS
  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    V.Overeem via sub rd 2
    Monson via sub rd 1
    Noons via KO rd 2
    Barnett via sub rd 2
    Overeem via TKO rd 2

    All fights finished.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

  • locoRover says:

    Ok seriously. When is frank shamrock getting rid of those braces? Even more importantly, when are they getting rid of frank shamrock. Agh!

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Probably when his dentist says so and probably when Dana White says so.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Oh. I guess Lashley’s loss wasn’t so bad after all.
    Well done Griggs and tapping due to strikes? toughen up Overeem.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  • locoRover says:

    Ha! Advanced technique on that lat drop mauro? Gradeschool kids learn that…

    Welp is anyone surprised by v. Overeem shelling up? Griggs is becoming (one of) the best heavyweight prospects, despite being 33

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Ya have to admire Monson. I dont think he would turn down a fight with a polar bear. Dude is old school tough. Cormier will have to box his way to victory and that wont be easy.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  • MCM says:

    Glad to hear Monson is moving down to 205 after this. At one time the 265’s were Tim Sylvia, now their Overeem. He’s better suited for LHW.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  • locoRover says:

    That’s a fact Logic. Monson has gotta be the most active fighter in a big promotion.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Cormier looks to be in better shape but still chubby. His boxing has improved but is still forced a little. Let it flow brother.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Starting to think putting my picks up on this thread was a bad idea.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  • locoRover says:

    Would like to see both these guys at 205. Monsons a tough SOB, but cormier just too fast and a horrible matchup for jeff.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • MCM says:

    0-2 huh logic.
    glad to see you found a way to watch the fights.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Cormier looks to have improved ten fold and will be up around contnetion sooner rather than later. Just my opinion but he looks better than Valesquez did at the same time in his career. It’s a pitty that they will probably never fight even if they could.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Watch out Noons because I picked you to win and tonight that is not a good thing it seems.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  • locoRover says:

    Can’t frickin stand noons. No valid reason. There’s just something about him. So for that reason alone, i hope masvidal puts his lights out.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  • locoRover says:

    But at least he cut his bangs

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    See this my problem with scoring take downs. Masvidal took him down and fell into a kimora… shit stream went down.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  • locoRover says:

    It just looks like masvidal feels noons can’t touch him. Which could be dangerous, up 2 rounds…

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Man took 10 mins to get another stream. What happened?.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  • MCM says:

    Ha! my stream went down to LOGIC. I had to find another.
    well…I’m 1-2 tonight but I’m glad Noons didn’t win, I can’t stand that guy either.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • locoRover says:

    Noons got COMPLETELY outclassed all over the place. Makes me happy seeing noons get worked on. Masvidal looked cocky and untouchable…

    But gil will eat him.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    The MMA-LOGIC curse strikes again.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  • locoRover says:

    Knees and kicks were the story in the first rd. Jorge busted noons open with a knee then dropped noons with a headkick and nearly finished but ran outta time.

    Second rd less kicks for jorge, dodging noons strikes with hands down half the time, outboxing noons, hittin a few tds.

    Same with the third.

    Jorge never looked scared of noons hands

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    If anyone can break the curse its … steroids.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    I like the ramp enterance better. More of a spectacle. Rogers has the better hair cut but Barnett the better facial hair, so I have it even so far.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  • locoRover says:

    Also, they’re about equal in man-titty-ness

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  • locoRover says:

    And barnett has more revealing shorts. So ill take him with a sub rd 2.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Rd 1 for Rogers. ;)

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  • locoRover says:

    Forget those boos. Barnetts top movement is beautiful.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Barnett does look good. He is a big chance to win the whole thing.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  • locoRover says:

    I’m regretting not putting my main card predictions on here, cuz I’d look like a genius. 4/4 ;)

    Full/half guardish arm triangle. Bushleague brett rogers. bushleague.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  • MCM says:

    shut up Barnett.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  • locoRover says:

    Ah josh. Always the showman. Love it

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    1 out 4! I’m on a roll.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  • MCM says:

    I would like to see him against Brock. A healthy Brock, so there’s no excuses.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • locoRover says:

    Mcm, u mean barnett right? Cuz thatd be hilarious and outrageous. And I think healthy brock rolls that fight. Bad matchup for barnett. Cuz he’s not gettin on top of lesnar.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • locoRover says:

    Mcm, barnett lesnar would be outrageous and hilarious showmanship.

    I think lesnar is a bad matchup for josh, as there’s no way he’s gettin on top of brock imo. I’d still like to see it play out

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • MCM says:

    yeah I mean Barnett. I don’t know, it could go either way. I actually think it would be a pretty close fight.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • MCM says:

    unless it turned into a pro wrestling match. :0

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • locoRover says:

    Sorry for the double kinda the same posts… Didn’t think it sent…

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    What happens if Barnet tries to punch Lesnar? we all know that Lesnar turns into a little girl and tries to hide behind the ref once a the leather starts flying.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    I would like to see Lesnar vs Werdum or Nog.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  • locoRover says:

    Logic. Very true. Brock just needs to grow his beard bigger so he can soften punches.

    So here it goes. I’m torn on this fight, as my gut is tellin me to go with werdum for some reason…

    But I’m gonna go with overeem by tko in the first or second. Cuz he’s huge and scares me.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  • locoRover says:

    Well I score that round boring frustration. We’ll see if werdums games get in reems head

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Strictly speaking Werdums winning.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  • MCM says:

    this is the problem with MMA. it doesn’t allow the ground fighters a chance gain the advantage. Werdum is trying to force the ground game but all AO had to do is walk away and it goes right back to his favor.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Learn to wrestle. MCM I could’nt disagree more.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  • MCM says:

    “MCM I could’nt disagree more.”
    Shocker.

    I’m really getting pissed at the boo birds. This is a good fight. I haven’t seen anything worth booing about .

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Who won?

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  • gy614x says:

    Werdum seemed to get the better of the stand up in this one, i was kind of shocked really…

    I scored it 29-28 for Werdum, but i wouldn’t be shocked either way.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • locoRover says:

    Ya not necessarily an exciting fight, but a tactical fight on both guys fault. I think werdum did an ok job striking with overeem, and if he hadn’t gassed himself on all those shots after the first rd I feel he could had a decent shot winning.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Lucky. Werdum had negative tactics but I think he came close to winning.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  • gy614x says:

    this just confirms my stance that Overeem would get smashed by by most of the top heavyweights in the UFC.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

  • MCM says:

    Overeem won.

    I’m not surprised as he had Werdum hurt bad in the 2nd. But I thought Werdum did much better in the stand up and I would have like to have seen him keep in standing in the third.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • locoRover says:

    29-28, 30-27, 30-27 overeem… Failing on that many shots makes you look really bad.

    I think 29-28 overeem is fair. Rd 1 and 2 for reem, rd 3 for werdum. Bigfoots gna be a tough fight for him.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  • MCM says:

    gy614x,
    Werdum is a top 10 fighter. How do you figure Overeem would get smashed by the UFC HW’s?

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  • locoRover says:

    29-28, 30-27, 30-27 overeem… Failing that poorly on that many shots makes you look really bad.

    I think 29-28 overeem is fair. Rd 1 and 2 for reem, rd 3 for werdum. Bigfoots gna be a tough fight for him.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  • MCM says:

    Bigfoot vs. Sergi in the finals.
    I’m calling it now.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    MCM the art of grappling has to include initiating the grapple or getting it to the ground. What do you expect, the fight to start on the ground or the ref to force a ground fight if a certain fighter prefers to stand?.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  • MCM says:

    I know the rules, and I’m not arguing a change. Just stating a fact that the rules favor the striker.
    Ironic in a sport that was made popular by grapplers.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    gy!? yeah it confirms that Overeem is a top 5. Werdum was top 3 and Dos Santos is not the striker that Overeem is so how do you figure?.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    I think it favours wrestlers myself.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  • locoRover says:

    Gy614x… Overeem can be competitive with any hw in the world. Foolish statement considering werdum is most definitely top 10. Strikeforce has a deeper hw division and that’s a fact (and this is coming from a diehard ufc fan who hates most everything strikeforce.)

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

  • MCM says:

    I would argue Judging favors wrestlers, and the Rules favor strikers. But that’s just getting knit picky.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • Rich S. says:

    “Just stating a fact that the rules favor the striker.”

    I’d say that, if anything, the “rules” favor a grappler, more specifically, a wrestler.

    Just think of as many past grappler vs. striker matches that you can off the top of your head. Did you ever really give the striker a chance? It’s typically much easier to get a fighter to the ground than it is to stay off the ground throughout a fight.

    A striker must have incredible strength, balance, and takedown defense, while the grappler typically just needs a good chin. This is, of course, assuming that the grappler is good at what he does. And I think Werdum is. And it certainly is frustrating when you can’t take your opponent down, but that’s the sport.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Ground fighters that have been champs or been outstanding in MMA.
    Edgar.
    Maynard.
    Nog.
    Hughes.
    Filho.
    Sakuraba.
    Lesnar.
    Evans.
    Sherk.
    Severn.
    Gracie.
    Werdum.
    Barnett.
    Valasquez.
    Sonnen.
    Maia.
    Couture.
    Shamrock.K
    Shamrock.F
    Shields.
    Ricco.
    Mir.

    So to say MMA favours the stand up fighter is a bit rich.

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  • locoRover says:

    I know I’m gonna catch a lot of flack for this, but here we go…

    Every fight starts standing up cuz that’s how a fight starts. And at the end of the day, 95% of people are tuning in to watch fighting and not martial arts.

    So, given that u must start standing, its your responsibility to fight how you want to fight. If u can’t do that, then u don’t deserve to win.

    The most important thing to do in a fight, or any competition, to ensure victory is to do it on your own terms.

    If you’re a wrestler, its ur responsibility to not get hit and take the fight to the ground and control ur oppenent.

    If u wanna strike, its ur job to keep it standing and hit your opponent in the face.

    If ur a submissions guy, its ur job to put the fight on the ground and implement ur game plan.

    So as far as the rules go, I think they’re completely in line with how a fight should be.

    Judging for the most part is ok. The only thing I think could change is awarding pulling guard AND working for subs the same as a takedown.

    At the end of the day, fight your fight and USUALLY you’ll win. And the guy with more ways to win is almost always victorious.

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  • gy614x says:

    I don’t like to play the top 10 fighter game.

    Werdum is top 10, but he was out striking Overeem for majority of the fight, and striking is not his strong point.

    Overeem vs Cain=Cain by dec/tko
    Overeem vs Junior= Junior by Ko/tko
    Overeem vs Brock = Brock by dec. (as much as it pains me to say that, and believe me im not a lesnar nuthugger by any stretch)

    Allistiar folds under pressure, if he can’t put you away he crumbles, his weakness’ are his heart, and his chin. One can’t be fixed and the other is tough to achieve.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  • gy614x says:

    And if you agree with top 10 rankings, the fool can be looking in the mirror those things change like the weather and don’t measure a fighters talents.

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  • locoRover says:

    You can’t fix heart or chin.

    But saying that hed lose to ‘most of the top ufc heavies’ and backing it up by saying hed lose to their top 3 doesn’t make a good argument.

    I agree that I think cain and junior would take him. That’s why I put him as #3 in the world. Itd be interesting to see him fight brock tho.

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  • gy614x says:

    Well I should reiterate, I take back most of the UFC’s top heavyweights. But when I think of the UFC’s heavyweight division the names that come to minds are Cain, JDS, Brock, Carwin, Mir, Nog (though not so impressive as of late).

    I stand firm in my place that Overeem is an over rated striker, he’s great, and he’s a great kick boxer, but his chin hinders his ability to strike, Werdum had him backing up and covering up a lot in that fight.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  • gy614x says:

    Oh and MCM, I agree the rules favor a striker, but the judging favors the grappler…if your on top

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  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Can’t see how Jr would win to be honest and I think Valesquez would have his hands full considering he strugled with Kongo. I think Werdum would be a challenge for Valesquez but Dos Santos would beat him again. Barnett would be a good fight for both and big Foot also. Lets face it guys Nelson went the distance with Dos Santos on the feet but couldnt with Arlovski. Dos Santos is good but come on. So he beat Gonzaga, Werdum TKOed Gonzaga with strikes. Valasquez is suposed to be powerful but hit Kongo 250+ times in the head and Kongo was fine, Rothwell was repeatedly standing up and seeming relatively unphased as Cain hit him over and over in the head. Kongo outclassed Valasquez on the feet as did Rothwell. They are not that good. Bas was embarrased for MMA after Lesnars performance against Carwin and stated that he doesnt know guard or how to take punches. The UFC fighters are not a class above in ability but are in promotion. Valasquez has not defended his title and Dos Santos has only beaten 1 or 2 top 10s ( I doubt Cawins cred ).

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

  • JabCrossHook says:

    From the way Alistair performed I wouldn’t be surprised if Sergei would knock him out again if they meet in the Grand Prix Finale.

    But that’s assuming he beats Big Foot which is a big challenge in itself.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  • MCM says:

    If you are not deemed to be active enough on the ground, you’re stood up.
    If you’re not active enough in the clinch, you’re separated.
    Baiting your opponent into a striking match ala Machida or A. Silva, is acceptable, but baiting your opponent into the ground game, Werdum, is not and can cost you the fight or your job, Leites.

    I’m not saying grapplers don’t have success in this sport, hell the damn sport was started by grapplers. But the rules are set in place so that there are means to avoid grappling matches, presumably to keep things more exciting as some grappling matches can be very boring. But there’s nothing set in place to avoid boring jab and circle fests (Sheilds/GSP).

    I’m also NOT advocating changing the rules. Just pointing out the difference in the Overeem/Werdum fight where each was trying to bait the other into their respective strengths, but the rules favored the striker.

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  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    I see what you are saying MCM but as it stands strikers are at a disadvantage. That may well be because grappling is more effective but none the less it is a fact that 9x out of 10 you would back a pure wrestler or bjj guy over a pure striker.
    For those that think Overeem performed poorly, well he beat a fellow top 10 guy, it cant have been that poor. Also some are saying he was backed up etc well have you ever watched his K1? He is very hesitant to just bang it out there too, choosing to cover up and defend a lot. Everytime he tried to attack Werdum dropped to his back. A negative tactic but as has been shown by Maia, Leites (vs the spider) and now Werdum, it is a very effective way of denying the better striker oportunities. Overeem is a far better striker than most and probably the best HW striker in MMA but it is possible to frustrate and negate that with certain tactics. Werdum did that tonight. Werdum is very good you know. I’m sure Werdum Dos Santos 2 would be different. I would still pick Jr but not in the same manner.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  • elkymbo says:

    We’re all being distracted from the fact that this was a pretty rubbish card all round really.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  • locoRover says:

    I didn’t think it was necessarily a rubbish card. Not top-notch, but isn’t that why strikeforce is NOT the top promotion. Honestly you’d be hard pressed to find too many ufc cards w/o a title fight that are much better.

    Big difference is the production quality, but that’s nothing new.

    Griggs proved to be legit. V overeem proved that he’s irrelevant and weakminded.

    Masvidal showed that melendez has at least one more fight in SF. And seeing him turn noons’ face into mush made me happy.

    Cormier showed improved (albeit sloppy) striking.

    And I was not in the least bored with barnett v rogers. Barnett had two very cool and violent takedowns v rogers. I was hopin he’d end it with a cooler sub, but he didn’t really have to as rogers proved he has zero answer to ground work.

    And then there’s the main event. Werdum showed that he’s a tough out for anybody, and I really believe that if hed changed up his gameplan and stood a little more, then he would have taken the fight. But when u attempt as many takedowns as he did, and flop as many times as he did, ur not takin that fight.

    So maybe it didn’t have the most spectacular finishes, but it was far from rubbish.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  • HevyHitters says:

    Logic I disagree, jds would light up overeem, if werdum had him backing up and covering, what do you think jds would do? And cain would take out overeem also, his pace would be to much for him to handle..I’m not saying overeem sucks and I respect his skills, but he would lose to the top heavys of the ufc

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • Mad_Hatter_XX says:

    Overeem better work on his cardio if he wants to beat Bigfoot Silva. Silva has a good ground game but, I don’t see him flopping to the ground all the time. If he comes after Overeem and pushes the pace and works for take downs he has a shot at winning.

    If he decides to stay standing and try to throw hands the whole fight with Overeem I don’t see it ending well.

    First time I have seen Josh Barnett fight live and he looked OK. Rogers is too much like Shane Carwin. If he can’t knock you out quick he looks lost. In fact that might be a good fight to put those two 1 dimensional guys in the cage together.

    I just hope it isn’t another 4 or 5 months before we see the next round of the tournament but, I have a feeling that is what is gonna happen.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  • Rich S. says:

    Well said, MCM. But, while there are stand-ups for inactive ground fighters and nothing for inactive strikers, it is the striker’s job to neutralize the ground fighter’s movement on the ground for a stand-up, just as it is the ground fighter’s job to neutralize the striker’s strikes and get a takedown.

    I see where you’re coming from, though. It may seem a bit unfair or uneven, but the rules are the way they are for a reason. They work.

    Now, one thing that I do think needs changing, is the scoring on pulling guard and fighting actively off your back. There are quite a few fighters who are actually in the ‘dominant’ position when they’re on their backs. A fight shouldn’t be judged solely on the position a fighter was in. It should be judged by the activity and damage caused by said fighter.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Sorry guys but Dos Santos’s last 5 opponents have a ave record of 2-3 from their last 5 and he is neither the stand up or ground fighter of Overeems recognition and this is 100% fact. Overeem is the K1 champ and has more sub victories than striking ones. He is vastly more experienced too. Dos Santos has not impressed me to any great extent. Nelson is a top 30 fighter that had been put away with strikes by Arlovski and had lost to both Rothwell and Monson in striking duels. Yvel sucks lately and is 1-4 from his last 5. Struve is a top 30 fighter that is foolish enough to brawl with everyone instead of using his body to his advantage. Carwin is a big powerful dude that will go the way of Houston Alexander soon. He is not a classey fighter in my opinion and has a narrow skill set that may win him the odd upset but will not be in anyway consistant. Crocop is fairly average now too. Valesquez however, is a good fighter but I am not overly impressed with him either and would not feel comfortable stating his greatness until he has proven it a little more. I think we will get to see these top UFC HWs fight some of the tourney fighters in the not too distant future and all will be revealed but until then I dont see any point in saying Overeem sucks or that the UFC fighters are better because there is NOTHING to back that up. The UFC heavyweights are less decorated in reality and have proven little as far as cosistancy against the elite.
    I would love to see these match ups in the future in a SF vs UFC tourney;
    Barnett vs Mir.
    Cormier vs Lesnar.
    Kharitonov vs Dos Santos.
    Overeem vs Valesquez.
    Rogers vs Carwin.
    Big Foot vs Nog.
    Fedor vs Jon Jones.
    Del Rosario vs whoever the next ranked UFC HW is and Griggs vs Meat Head and Aleks vs Browne as the 2 reserves. I dont want to hear that the UFC would easily win because I KNOW you cant know that and base that ASSUMPTION on fuck all.

    Sorry if I double posted.

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  • locoRover says:

    Logic… These matchups, and so many variations, are why I salivate over the two divisions combining. Almost all of these would be a wash, imo. And make for awesome great marketable heavyweight mma madness

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  • MCM says:

    Really stretching it there on the Dos Santos hate, aren’t you LOGIC? Did you really just insinuate that because JDS couldn’t put Nelson away, he’s not that good. You know that Nelson has only been KO’d once in 21 fights right? And of course Arlovski put him away, he’s put down 11 of the 15 guys he’s beat.
    JDS also KO’d Werdum. And Werdum just out struck the “best striker in the HW division”.
    Yeah, Overeem is a K-1 champ, so is Jerome Le Banner and he’s 3-2-1 in MMA. Just cause you’re great in one sport doesn’t make you great in another. Everyone ranks Overeem high for the same reasons Brock, Cain and Carwin were ranked so high….Potential.
    Overeem hasn’t done anything in MMA to warrant his ranking in the top ten, but because he wins the K-1 grand prix, he’s touted as being unstoppable. You can pick apart JDS’s opponents but the fact is that since winning the SF belt, Overeem has faced all of two real opponents that weren’t coming off a loss. And in some cases, coming in on a 2 fight or more losing streak.

    I’m not saying that the UFC is better than SF or vise versa, but if you’re gonna put down one fighter, at least take a serious look at the one you’re pumping up.

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  • boomnutz says:

    Did Overeem say himself that a win here would put him in the top ten? I just read a few comments, and MCM I don’t see how you can call it unfair for AO just to push Werdum away. WTF, Werdum should learn to wrestle (wow did I just agree with Logic?!? I guess there’s a first time for everything) How can you just lie there and expect the other guy to enter your world? Too me all the HWs looked awful Barnett looked decent but it’s all relative. Roger’s didn’t even make him work, plus he looked soft. All these HWs have specialties but no one’s very well rounded (except maybe Kharitonov) it’s a shame he got Barnett in the next match, hopefully Barnett won’t prove to be too big. Also, does anyone think any of these HWs could go 3 solid rounds?!?! they all look like a bunch of slobs, I was so pumped for this tourny and now it’s looking like a bag of dicks.

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  • boomnutz says:

    MCM there’s one fault to your point…what exactly can they do if fighter’s won’t engage standing?!?! DQ them? If people stall on the ground you can separate them, you can separate them standing. Personally, I think there should point deductions for stalling, but then again that calls on the competency of the refs (I think most do a good job)

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    No MCM you have it all wrong. I am trying to make others take a look at who they pump up and recognise that UFC fighters are not a bench mark but also have question marks. If it is “hate” to point out facts about JDS well I’m sorry but the truth hurts dude. The 100% fact is that most of the SF HWs are more accomplised and more experienced but that does not mean they are better OR WORSE. My whole point, that you side stepped AGAIN.

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  • MCM says:

    And yet, you never seem to point out any thing wrong with non-UFC fighters? Just admit that you’re as much a UFC hater as some guys are UFC nuthuggers.

    And I didn’t “side step” your point. I blatantly stated it.

    …..”I’m not saying that the UFC is better than SF or vise versa”

    Agree or Disagree: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

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