Chael Sonnen: “I knew (Anderson Silva) was a coward.”

Chael Sonnen continues to try and push the buttons of UFC middleweight champ Anderson Silva. Sonnen, who lost to Silva via submission in 2010, called out “The Spider” following his most recent win over Brian Stann inside the Octagon.

Silva, who is rehabbing a shoulder injury, has made it known that he doesn’t believe Sonnen deserves a rematch. However, with his most recent comments, Sonnen may just get the match he so desperately wants.

UFC President Dana White has said he wants to make Silva-Sonnen II, possibly on Super Bowl Weekend, but nothing has been confirmed by either White or the UFC.

Sonnen, while being interviewed by FightHype recently, talked about Silva’s lack of acceptance to his loser-leaves-town stipulation he tossed in. Sonnen said if he defeated Silva, Silva would have to leave the 185-pound division. If Silva were victorious, Sonnen said he would leave the UFC.

“Shocked. He comes from a fighting culture,” Sonnen said of Silva’s refusal to take the bout. “I was blown away that he would insult his entire heritage like that. Behind the scenes, I knew he was a coward, but in a million years, I never thought he would show it publicly.”

Carrying on as only he can, Sonnen also called himself the biggest draw in MMA, saying, “I sell more tickets, more pay-per-views, and more merchandise than any fighter in history. Comparing (Georges St. Pierre) to me is like comparing Kimbo (Slice) to (Muhammed) Ali.”

News of Silva’s future will likely come in the next few weeks after Dan Henderson, also a potential contender, fights Mauricio Rua at UFC 139. Additionally, Mark Munoz called Silva out albeit respectfully after his win last Saturday night over Chris Leben.

PHOTO CREDIT – UFC

57 COMMENTS
  • Mad_Hatter_XX says:

    I love this guy! He just talks and talks just to stir things up. I doubt he believes all his own hype but, in this world of 24/7 need for new info he is happy to oblige.

    Win or lose he talks himself into big paychecks. How big of a PPV would it be to have Silva/Sonnen II and GSP/Diaz on one card the night before Superbowl? Close to 2 million buys would be my guess.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    Well, Chael continues to show that he is as persistent as he is desperate. And he’s gonna get paid a ton by the time it’s all said & done.

    If you only focus on that end result (and toss things like honor, respect, dignity out the window), he’s handled this thing brilliantly. I mean, we’re talking about a guy with a 5-4 record under the UFC banner, who’s been publicly dragged thru the mud after failing a drug test as well as being slapped with a federal charge for shady business, and he’s got the vast majority of MMA fans–casual & hardcore fans alike–clamoring for him to get another shot at the greatest mixed martial artist of all time. He’s even got people not understanding why the GOAT wouldn’t want to see this guy rewarded for his assclown routine with another shot at his belt.

    Without Anderson Silva, Chael is a relative nobody at the top of the MMA food chain. He’s Evan Tanner (RIP) or Brian Stann. No shame in that, of course, but not nearly the level he’s been able to reach by goading the media/fans with his non-stop obnoxious, disrespectful ranting. By the time it’s over with he’ll have sucked every last drop from the Anderson Silva teet… and whether he pulls off another improbable performance or (much more likely, IMO) is embarrassed by a healthy Silva the second time around, Chael will walk away with an enormous payday that will probably mean financial freedom for life. I don’t respect the man’s tactics, but damn if he aint good at what he does.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    And yeah, if the UFC wants to go all in with the SB card, by stacking it with GSP/Diaz and Chael/Silva, the numbers on that thing would shatter all previous MMA records. The fact it take place during an already huge weekend that lots of people are planning around sports, I think 2M buys would be within reach.

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  • THEGUNNER says:

    I would love for silva to beat sonnen to shut him up

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    “I would love for silva to beat sonnen to shut him up.”

    Assuming the fight does happen, which it should, to me that’s the overwhelmingly likely outcome. I think a healthy Anderson Silva toys with Sonnen en route to a 2nd round (T)KO.

    And then all of this ridiculous hype & build up, all of the energy & effort on Chael’s end, all of the message board banter that I and so many have been sucked into… it’ll all be over just like that. Like a pin to a giant balloon. Hopefully it’ll at least be fun to watch.

    But even if/when Chael gets smashed, he’ll still have the last laugh on everyone that bought into his act, as he collects his fat paycheck. But he won’t have what his opponent will walk out of the cage with — dignity & respect.

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  • MCM says:

    Chael Sonnen has a 5-4 UFC record?! AND he was caught for cheating and lying?!
    Why are you just pointing this out now?! Why have you not made these points in every single other story about Chael or Silva?
    Let it go man.

    How bout the fact that Chael decimate the GOAT for more than 23 mins. How bout the fact that he was already scheduled for an immediate rematch before his bottom fell out. How bout the fact that his last 5 fights have been against 3 top 5 and 2 top 10 MW’s and he made all of them look like amateurs until Silva caught the triangle.

    Is Chael a bad person? Possibly. Is he a criminal? I think so. Is he the only person in the MW division that deserves a shot at Anderson Silva at the moment? Abso-fucking-lutely!

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  • edub says:

    Ah Richard, you are going to cry yourself to sleep if Chael beats Anderson when they fight aren’t you…

    MCM is right, let it go man. You make the same old, tired points (some of them no where near accurate; Sonnen on the same level of a guy he just dominated…) every thread having to do with Sonnen/Silva.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    “How bout the fact that Chael decimate the GOAT for more than 23 mins. How bout the fact that he was already scheduled for an immediate rematch before his bottom fell out. How bout the fact that his last 5 fights have been against 3 top 5 and 2 top 10 MW’s and he made all of them look like amateurs until Silva caught the triangle.”

    Yeah, let’s talk about that. During his first stint with the UFC, Chael was an outclassed fighter who was sent packing after a few underwhelming performances. Then he got a 2nd chance–on the wrong side of 30–and got dominated by Maia in a very untriumphant return.

    So now the dude is sitting on a 1-3 record with the UFC, at age 32 (BJ Penn’s current age). Pretty major crossroads, as far as his MMA career, with his UFC gig on very thin ice, let alone sniffing title contention. Pretty desperate times for Mr. Sonnen, one might assume.

    But somehow, some way, Mr. Sonnen figured it out. He started winning, and doing so in really impressive fashion like you described above. It was a story of courage & perseverance that would make Sammy Sosa proud. I don’t know how he did it. Surely a case of hard work & dedication, without a hint of anything shady. I mean this is Chael we’re talking about. The people’s champ.

    It culminated with a juiced Chael giving an injured Anderson all he could handle. The belt was all but his (except it wouldn’t have been regardless of outcome, but that’s not an interesting part of the story). It was shocking. I was watching at a bar with friends. Couldn’t believe what was unfolding. Couldn’t help but get caught up in rooting for the upset of upsets to happen. As much as I’ve railed on Chael, that’s God’s honest truth. (Plus it wasn’t like Anderson was very likable at that time, not far removed from some very uninspiring performances. Like most everyone else, I just want to see good fights.)

    Fast forwarding to now, I guess I just have a different perception than most others about how everything has unfolded. Where others see that last fight as evidence Chael will give Anderson a run for his money again, I see a perfect storm of circumstances that made for an incredibly fluky upset possible. Which, frankly, *should* have happened if not for Chael’s own sloppiness. But I do not expect lightning to strike the same spot twice.

    So I’ll eat huge crow if Sonnen somehow pulls off the shocker. Hell, if he wins a round I’ll be surprised, and anything beyond that would be gravy. I just don’t see it happening. A healthy Anderson will toy with Sonnen.

    Finally, is it the best available matchup? Yes. But does that say more about Chael Sonnen or more about the current state of the MW division? Clearly the latter, IMO. I guess time will tell. By the time the rematch is over, I don’t see there being much gray area or further calls for a rematch. The Chael Sonnen ship will have sailed, albeit with a hell of a treasure chest in tow.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    @edub – Relax dude. It’s an MMA forum.

    You think Chael will fare much better than I do. I’d gladly welcome a friendly wager on how things will play out, giving you very friendly odds, but since that obviously won’t happen we’re left with back & forth banter on here. If it’s more tiring than entertaining, no need to jump in.

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  • I do agree with your points about him having an underwhelming point Richard but I am with my boys, bring up a new point.
    And dont EVER compare Chael to Evan Tanner….Evan held the title.
    Chael is by a longshot the most compelling fight for Silva, but does he deserve it? No, just because you take the champ to the limit and then lose doesnt warrant you a rematch. You still have to work your way back up and I think Munoz and Sonnen would be a fair fight for that. Munoz has just as if not a more impressive set of wins(i.e. he finishes people) than Chael and he wouldnt be surprised by Chael’s wrestling.
    Rich brings up great points about Chael’s testosterone levels which were over the limit TRT allowed or not. That makes him more explosive, quicker to recover and stronger during the fight, which is an unfair advantage. If Diaz had to take an extra prefight DT to prove he wasnt on marijuana which is by no means a performance enhancing drug, Chael should have to take Olympic style testing to prove his testosterone is at acceptable levels.
    Is he playin a smart game? No doubt….do i think Anderson is playing his own role in it? All Day and I sincerely think Anderson wants chael to think he’s scared of him…and when the cage door closes…Chaels going to get hurt and hurt badly….which even if loser leaves town wasnt a stipulation…Chael wont be able to fight again for at least a year due to broken….somethin.

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  • damn it…and underwhelming record

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    @dave – fair eoungh. without anderson’s teet to latch onto, chael sonnen on his own merits falls between evan tanner & brian stann. i’m just suprised how caught up ppl are with a guy who will be 5-5 in the UFC with a failed test to boot if/when anderson beats him. is that a tired point? sure….just like the whole chael sonnen act, with each headline-grabbing obnoxious rant more tiring than the last. and we’ve still got at leasst 4 months to wait….oy. it’s not so much chael’s antics that bother me but rather that ppl (imo) have allowed him to pull the wool over their eyes. that’s more what i’m responding to. but yeah, enough is enough. just dont say i didnt tell ya so :)

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  • MickeyC says:

    I love Chael, He is a Huge Douche bag, but man can he hype some S*%t! And it is hard not to agree with a lot of what he has to say. There is NO other fight for Andersen now or in the near future but Chael! And Unless they put it off and for some reason one of them gets beat by someone else it WILL happen. There is too much potential $$ to be made for Dana not to put it together. But man can sonnen push buttons. I could see them putting this off and working them in as the brazil TUFF coaches if that is still going down in the near future. I hope they provide extra security for sonnen, dudes liable to get assassinated while down there.

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  • Hey staff what’s up with the italics?

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  • MCM says:

    Boner says: “chael sonnen on his own merits falls between evan tanner & brian stann”

    I guess smashing the #2 MW in the world (Paulo Filho) twice, the #5 MW (Okami), and the #3 MW (Marquardt) all while being a huge underdog and then handing the greatest fighter alive the biggest beating he’s ever received doesn’t count for much.

    Chael is boastful, brash, and to a lot of people, annoying. But take away his publicity and based off his record of the past few years (not his record of 6 years ago when he was fighting LHW title contenders), it’s almost impossible to make a legitimate argument that he’s NOT the true #1 contender.

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  • edub says:

    Richard- Why are you telling anybody to calm down. You obviously have some type of vendetta against Chael to keep bringing up the same points over and over on here (then add some completely ridiculous ones on top of that).

    It is an MMA forum (Captain obvious), so you should expect that when you make the same illogical arguments over and over that people are going to call you on it.

    “And dont EVER compare Chael to Evan Tanner….Evan held the title.”

    So did Dave Menne. It was a different time period where most of the MW talent in the world was fighting outside of the UFC. Him holding the title means very little when you compare it to the guys he beat compared to Chael. Chael Sonnen is twice the fighter Evan tanner ever was. And that is coming from a huuuge Evan Tanner fan.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    Evan Tanner was a UFC champion, future HOFer and well-respected across the entire MMA community, so as Dave corrected me on, Chael clearly aint that and never will be. But that wasn’t really my point. I threw those two names out there as a general threshold for the type of hype/attention guys like that normally garner. I think Chael–based on his own merits–falls right in that mix, which is hardly an insult.

    Fighters on that level simply don’t get the type of hype & attention that Chael has been able to manufacture. His tactics, as douchey as they may be, have been incredibly effective. But the simple fact is it’s only possible because he’s piggy-backing off the greatest fighter alive. Take away Anderson Silva, who Chael can’t go more than a couple sentences without mentioning, and no one gives a crap about Chael Sonnen, relatively speaking. He’s the Craig Ehlo to Michael Jordan.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    “I guess smashing the #2 MW in the world (Paulo Filho) twice, the #5 MW (Okami), and the #3 MW (Marquardt) all while being a huge underdog and then handing the greatest fighter alive the biggest beating he’s ever received doesn’t count for much.”

    Regarding this part specifically, which touches on Chael’s track record, Chael tapped against Filho the first time they fought. Chael won the rematch, although I think it’s worth noting the most significant win of Filho’s career since that point was… submitting Manhoef? It’s too bad Filho struggled so much with the substance abuse. He could’ve been a beast.

    The Okami and Marquardt wins were pretty impressive. Nate has had his own issues, and hasn’t really done anything since losing to Chael either, but at the time that was a really good win for Chael. I think I’ve made abundantly clear that I’m not as impressed as most with the first Sonnen-Silva fight, after considering the context & circumstances.

    I’ll go back to what I mentioned earlier — at age 32, Chael was 1-3 in the UFC, being finished in all 3 defeats. This was against some pretty game fighters in Babalu, Prangley, Jeremy Horn and Maia, but none exactly top of the foodchain guys either.

    He’s had a resurgence at a relatively late age. It’s not unprecedented in professional sports for guys to catapult from middle of the pack to top of the ranks on the wrong side of 30, but when it happens it’s usually viewed with some level of suspicion. You throw in Chael’s obvious testosterone issues and it’s just impossible to dismiss. But of course none of us really know what it all means, so I’ll go with the very overused phrase of “it is what it is.”

    So clearly there’s a gap between where I think Chael is relative to a guy like Anderson Silva, and the perception among many others. Chael might make me eat my words. I really doubt it, but time will tell. Hopefully SB weekend.

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  • edub says:

    “Evan Tanner was a UFC champion, future HOFer and well-respected across the entire MMA community, so as Dave corrected me on, Chael clearly aint that and never will be.”

    Evan Tanner isn’t in the HOF after dying, and was passed over for Charles “Mask” Lewis. If he’s ever in the the UFC HOF it will be a long way away, and after it grows a huge amount. Dana has alluded to the fact that he probably won’t make it, and that would be the correct decision. Just because he won the vacant title, and was awesome guy, doesn’t mean he belongs there. His career wins don’t merit a HOF entry, sadly. His two most famous performances are getting flattened by Tito Ortiz, and made to look like circus oddity against Rich Franklin.

    “I threw those two names out there as a general threshold for the type of hype/attention guys like that normally garner.”

    And what I (and MCM) are saying is that argument is completely ludicrous. Evan Tanner holds 1 maybe 2 top ten wins in his entire career. Chael holds 2 top 5 wins in the past 2 years alone, he also was the first to beat Paulo Filho (who at the time was the consensus #2 MW in the world). Comparing him to a guy he just dominated (Brian Stann) doesn’t even need be discussed.

    “Fighters on that level simply don’t get the type of hype & attention that Chael has been able to manufacture.”

    One he’s not on that level, and two he’s doing a hell of a job promoting himself. You’re right in that fewer people would care about him if he said all the right things in interviews. But he doesn’t, and his drawing power has been exponentially raised because of it.

    “But the simple fact is it’s only possible because he’s piggy-backing off the greatest fighter alive. Take away Anderson Silva, who Chael can’t go more than a couple sentences without mentioning, and no one gives a crap about Chael Sonnen, relatively speaking. He’s the Craig Ehlo to Michael Jordan.”

    Take away Anderson Silva, and Chael would be doing the exact same thing to Rich Franklin (or Dan Henderson, or Wanderlei Silva, or he would just be champ already). He’s doing a great job turning himself in to the bad guy, and it’s obviously working. He has people completely looking over the fact that he is the consensus #2 MW in the world (and just came within 3 minutes of ending Anderson Silva’s reign), and trying desperately to lump him in with gatekeepers and champions from an era where the division was close to nonexistent.

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  • edub says:

    “Chael won the rematch, although I think it’s worth noting the most significant win of Filho’s career since that point was… submitting Manhoef?”

    He hadn’t fought Manhoef yet. His most significant wins were against Misaki (who had just beat Hendo), Ryo Chonan (who had just tapped Anderson), and Yuki Kondo.

    “I’ll go back to what I mentioned earlier — at age 32, Chael was 1-3 in the UFC, being finished in all 3 defeats. This was against some pretty game fighters in Babalu, Prangley, Jeremy Horn and Maia, but none exactly top of the foodchain guys either.”

    One, there is three years inbetween his fights against the first three and Maia. Two, Babalu was a consensus top 5 LHW at the time (first person to beat Shogun only a few fights prior, and challenged Chuck for the title only a few fights later). Jeremy Horn just got done fighting for the LHW title, and was looked at as a top ten MW (got wins over Chael and Prangley in the UFC, then left to fight Lindland). Maia was undefeated at the time, and caught Chael with a throw then submission (a very flukish victory). The context of those losses at the time was completely different in how they would be viewed today.

    “The Okami and Marquardt wins were pretty impressive. Nate has had his own issues, and hasn’t really done anything since losing to Chael either, but at the time that was a really good win for Chael.”

    Nate had no issues going into the Chael fight. If fact, he knew a win would give him his coveted rematch with Anderson. Since then he’s had three fights; he stopped Palhares, dominated Miller, and fought a very boring (and very close) match with Okami. If that’s “not doing anything” I don’t really know who is outside of the top 3 in the division.

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  • MCM says:

    “This was against some pretty game fighters in Babalu, Prangley, Jeremy Horn and Maia, but none exactly top of the foodchain guys either.”

    Are you insane? Babalu was riding an 8 fight win streak when he fought Chael. He was considered one of the top LHW’s in the world. He won one more fight and fought for the freaking LHW championship against Chuck Liddell. Horn was one fight removed from his title fight against Chuck when he met Chael for the third time. Maia was an arguable top 5 UFC MW and, had he gotten by Marquardt in his next fight, was promised the title shot. 3 losses against 2 LHW’s that were one fight removed from their title shots and one MW that was one fight removed from a potential title shot. Where the hell do you think the top of the food chain is?

    And no, he didn’t tap to Filho. He dominated him, in the exact same way he dominated Okami, Nate, and Silva, but the ref made a bad call. You say he had a resurgence but all he did was tighten up everything he had been doing his entire career. And 32 is far from old. I’m 34 and I’d beat the crap out of my 28 yr old self. Know why, cause I’m better at what I do now than I was then.

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  • MCM says:

    and what edub said.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    Who knows what happens in that Marquardt-Palhares fight if Palhares doesn’t quit fighting. After that fight, Marquart traded decisions with a loss to a top contender and a win against a middle of the pack guy. He hasn’t really done anything since the Sonnen fight.

    Look, we can dissect every fight these guys have had during their career and put our own spin on it to tailor to this specific topic. But it doesn’t change the basic points I’m making…

    After Maia made quick work of Chael in the first fight of his 2nd UFC stint, Chael had fought 7 times under the WEC or UFC banner. In those 7 fights he amassed a 3-4 record, being finished in all 4 defeats while not finishing an opponent in any of his victories. That’s as matter of fact as I can put it.

    The latter part of his career is night & day compared to the utterly unspectacular 30+ fights that began it.

    The dude was 32 years old at this point. His signature win was over the enigmatic Paulo Filho, who did nothing of significance from that point forward as he continued to battle substance abuse. Other than Filho, in those first 30+ professional fights what was Chael’s best win? Flip a coin between his decision wins over Lambert and Prangley? His decision win over a 21-year-old Mayhem?

    Is it any wonder why Chael was still dorking around with real estate?

    Chael has the Sammy Sosa career trajectory. Which is fine. Both have managed to accomplish a lot in their respective sport and earn a ton of money. Maybe both just went back to the gym and tightened up their game. And maybe the first fight will be at all indicative of how the rematch plays out.

    I’m skeptical of both.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    “He hadn’t fought Manhoef yet. His most significant wins were against Misaki (who had just beat Hendo), Ryo Chonan (who had just tapped Anderson), and Yuki Kondo.”

    Read this again:

    Chael won the rematch, although I think it’s worth noting the most significant win of Filho’s career SINCE that point was… submitting Manhoef?

    Point being, by the time Chael beat Filho he had become an enigmatic fighter trapped in substance abuse who wouldn’t pick up another truly meaningful victory in his career. I love watching Manhoef, but c’mon.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    “And no, he didn’t tap to Filho. He dominated him, in the exact same way he dominated Okami, Nate, and Silva, but the ref made a bad call.”

    Filho looked like crap in that fight (with a trip to rehab soon to follow), but even without the controversial stoppage there still would have been ~10 seconds left with Filho holding Chael’s arm in a really dangerous position.

    So you’ve basically gotta give Chael the benefit of the doubt twice…

    1) The ref stopping things after Chael’s scream/verbal tap was incorrect.

    2) If the ref hadn’t stepped in, Chael escapes.

    Again, we can dissect these fights and spin them however we want but we’re just going in circles.

    At the risk of selling him short, Chael’s career was very underwhelming up until a relatively late resurgence that is mired in PED controversy.

    That’s obviously an opinion. I respect your guys’ differing point of view.

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  • edub says:

    No he’s beaten a two fringe top 15 guys since that fight, it’s not Nate’s fault Rousimar quit fighting. That’s doing something, very far from not doing anything.

    Fighters can’t control what their opponent does after defeating them. It’s their job to defeat whoever is put in front of them, and if they have a high ranking from beating top tier competition, they USUALLY deserve it.

    “Look, we can dissect every fight these guys have had during their career and put our own spin on it to tailor to this specific topic. But it doesn’t change the basic points I’m making…”

    Oh, so its your SPIN on the facts that makes them relevant to the conversation, and not anyone else’s. That doesn’t sound illogical or conceded at all.

    “After Maia made quick work of Chael in the first fight of his 2nd UFC stint, Chael had fought 7 times under the WEC or UFC banner. In those 7 fights he amassed a 3-4 record, being finished in all 4 defeats while not finishing an opponent in any of his victories. That’s as matter of fact as I can put it.”

    Actually, he was 4-4 in 8 career fights in both promotions after that fight. Since then he’s 4-1 fighting better competition, in just the UFC. And in each one of his wins (and for most of the lone loss), he was down right dominant.

    Furthermore, him finishing people has little to do with how dominant he is. A finish isn’t the apt measure of dominance. An example would be Anderson’s decision win against Thales Leites was far more dominant than his submission win against Chael Sonnen.

    “The latter part of his career is night & day compared to the utterly unspectacular 30+ fights that began it.”

    So the TRT treatment is working. We know this. I don’t understand why you are bringing it up. He’s eligible to use it by almost every commission in the USA, and Kizer is set to cave to him shortly (NSAC). It’s the same way Hendo had a late career resurgence, or Randy Couture (although HGH has only been a rumor in his career). There will be no difference between the Chael that got busted for not reporting his TRT treatment correctly, and the one that fights whoever his put in front of him next.

    On top of that, he’s the same guy. His takedowns were always great. His GNP was always great, his ground control and work rate was always phenomenal. His submission defense has gotten a little bit better, and his strength/cardio is a lot better too.

    The bottom in this argument is if you want to vilify Chael for “helping” himself, than there are many other guys we’d have to do the same too. And nothing is going to change about Chael come fight time, compared to his and Anderson’s first fight.

    “The dude was 32 years old at this point. His signature win was over the enigmatic Paulo Filho, who did nothing of significance from that point forward as he continued to battle substance abuse. Other than Filho, in those first 30+ professional fights what was Chael’s best win? Flip a coin between his decision wins over Lambert and Prangley? His decision win over a 21-year-old Mayhem?”

    Ummm, sure. Probably Prangley. Lambert was also good (he went on to win 8 straight). Tim Credeur is there, so is Amar Suloev, but Prangley is definitely the best.

    The problem was Paulo Filho was the #2 MW in the world at the time, and it makes a lot more sense to say that the beating Chael gave him in the first fight is what made him go down hill (considering the substance and steroid abuse was present during his winstreak too). The odd loss in the second fight is what sent him out of control. None of that takes away from chael beating the consensus #2 MW in the world.

    “Chael has the Sammy Sosa career trajectory. Which is fine. Both have managed to accomplish a lot in their respective sport and earn a ton of money. Maybe both just went back to the gym and tightened up their game. And maybe the first fight will be at all indicative of how the rematch plays out.”

    I know your trying really hard here to compare Chael to another athlete in sports that used steroids, but the relation of a mixed martial artist to a baseball player is so far off its no where near accurate. That’s not even taking into account the fact that Sammy was the most dominant home run hitter in baseball for a three year period (not just a great player in a division), and he failed for taking ILLEGAL anabolic steroids (not a prescribed treatment that is legal in his sport).

    A much more apt comparison would be guys in his own sport (the aforementioned Randy and Dan).

    Side note: Anderson Silva would actually be a very good comparison to Sammy Sosa too (outside of reported steroid use), if one were to look at certain perameters of thought.

    Now, the end to all of this:

    None, of it matters. Chael is universally ranked #2 in the world. He gave the champion the hardest fight of his career since entering the UFC and reaching his peak. His record in his past 5 fights (last 2 and 1/2 years) is 4-1 with two wins over top 5 opponents, 1 win over a top 10 opponent, 1 win over a borderline top 10 opponent (which is what Dan Miller was at the time), and a loss by MMA’s version of a Hail mary to the best athlete currently competing in the sport. He should get the shot; not just because people want to see it, not just because he can get under people’s skin, but because he actually deserves it. He’s the most accomplished fighter outside of Anderson in a very thin division. What his record was before he re-entered the UFC is practically irrelevant.

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  • MCM says:

    “After Maia made quick work of Chael in the first fight of his 2nd UFC stint, Chael had fought 7 times under the WEC or UFC banner. In those 7 fights he amassed a 3-4 record, being finished in all 4 defeats while not finishing an opponent in any of his victories. That’s as matter of fact as I can put it.”

    Except that’s not a matter of fact. It’s a matter of certain facts. What is omitted are the 5 fights and 4 finishes he had between his UFC and WEC debut. That makes his record 7-1 outside the UFC with that 1 being a controversial stoppage and his last win being against the #2 MW in the world. Regardless of what Filho did after that fight, he was still ranked #2 when he lost to Chael. And that isn’t spin, it’s the facts.
    I don’t know why you keep bringing up his first UFC stint anyway, it was more than 5 1/2 years ago. Since then he has gone 11-3 with the losses being to the #1 fighter in the world, a controversial loss to the #2 MW at the time and a loss to a top 10 MW. In that time he’s beaten the #2, 3, 4 and a couple of top 10′s and top 15 MW’s. But you’re acting as if he “all of a sudden at 32 yrs old” got good. The guys been on a tear for over 5 years.
    Clay Guida was a gate keeper just 2 years ago, now he’s in lined up for a title shot. Brian Stann wasn’t even on the radar last year, and he’s now top 10 and just fought for a title shot. 5 years ago Nick Diaz was released from the UFC LW division and now he’s fighting for the WW title.

    Chael’s accomplishments, not his mouth, far outweigh anything any other fighter (outside of AS) has done in the MW division.

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  • MCM says:

    On a personal note,
    I haven’t had this good an argument since MMA-LOGIC was on his game. Thanks.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    “Oh, so its your SPIN on the facts that makes them relevant to the conversation, and not anyone else’s. That doesn’t sound illogical or conceded at all.”

    Never suggested my perspective (i.e. spin) is any more relevant or important than yours or anyone else’s. Sure, I’m sharing my opinion in a way I feel is straight forward without being illogical or unfair, and I’m putting it out there as if it’s the right viewpoint. But as with any opinion, that’s open for interpretation.

    The point with the spin stuff is simple — we’ve each got our own point of view, and these often aren’t black-and-white topics. Which makes it more interesting. A couple perfect examples…

    The Marquardt-Palhares fight– where you see a notch in Nate’s belt, I see a fight that was over before it got going due to Palhares’ inexplicable actions. Who knows what happens if the fight had actually played out. Wouldn’t be fair to penalize Nate for that, but I’m also not going to give credit for an opponent laying down. He gets the ‘W’ in the books but in my mind it’s a no contest, which is part of why I feel he hasn’t really done anything of real significance since the Chael fight.

    2) The first Sonnen-Filho fight MCM & I talked about. Controversial finish… MCM points out Chael’s dominance during the bulk of the fight; I point out the fact Chael got himself into trouble late which ended up costing him the fight (sound familiar?). Kowing Chael as we do, I’m not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt when he claims he didn’t intend to tap. And even if he had been allowed to continue, I see a fight with 10 seconds left where Filho has Chael’s arm in a world of pain.

    Do I think I’m more “right” than you guys? Hell yeah! But it’s all in good fun. I do respect your guys’ opinion as knowledgeable fight fans. That we don’t agree on everything is part of the fun. Nothing personal, obviously.

    But I would have to add, stealing from the poetic Nicholas Robert Diaz…

    F Chael’s mother!!!

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  • MCM says:

    Damnit edub! Every time I sit down to write something, you’re already in the process of writing the same thing.

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  • edub says:

    Yes, you obviously are knowledgeable in your opinions. I’m not disputing that.

    However, just because you keep putting down over and over that you respect our opinions, doesn’t mean I’m not going to retort back when you decide to keep the discussion going. It all becomes semantics when you try to add in fights from over 3 years back, and we start to break down what happened to who after (and was “insert name here” overrated at the time of the fight, yada yada yada..). In short I really don’t think your opinion has any legs to stand on because you keep avoiding the main part of the conversation:

    “None, of it matters. Chael is universally ranked #2 in the world. He gave the champion the hardest fight of his career since entering the UFC and reaching his peak. His record in his past 5 fights (last 2 and 1/2 years) is 4-1 with two wins over top 5 opponents, 1 win over a top 10 opponent, 1 win over a borderline top 10 opponent (which is what Dan Miller was at the time), and a loss by MMA’s version of a Hail mary to the best athlete currently competing in the sport. He should get the shot; not just because people want to see it, not just because he can get under people’s skin, but because he actually deserves it. He’s the most accomplished fighter outside of Anderson in a very thin division. What his record was before he re-entered the UFC is practically irrelevant.”

    If you have something to rebuddle this with, without adding in losses from 3 years ago (and more), his failed test (because nothing is going to change from it for his next fight), then I am all ears.

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  • edub says:

    Yea, I’m dialed in for this one.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    OK, this part…

    “None, of it matters. Chael is universally ranked #2 in the world. He gave the champion the hardest fight of his career since entering the UFC and reaching his peak. His record in his past 5 fights (last 2 and 1/2 years) is 4-1 with two wins over top 5 opponents, 1 win over a top 10 opponent, 1 win over a borderline top 10 opponent (which is what Dan Miller was at the time), and a loss by MMA’s version of a Hail mary to the best athlete currently competing in the sport. He should get the shot; not just because people want to see it, not just because he can get under people’s skin, but because he actually deserves it. He’s the most accomplished fighter outside of Anderson in a very thin division. What his record was before he re-entered the UFC is practically irrelevant.”

    Chael is a deserving #2. You hit the nail on the head with this part:

    “He’s the most accomplished fighter outside of Anderson in a very thin division.”

    In a sense, none of the rest matters. If we leave it at that, and don’t care about the fact Chael was suspended by the athletic commission after the first fight, or what type of fighter Chael was earlier in his career before the PED issues, or what type of rib injury Anderson was dealing with during the first fight, or any other number of surrounding circumstances, I agree. We can boil it down to this so that we agree 100%:

    Chael has had some really good wins recently and is the most deserving from the current thin MW division.

    I just think there’s a lot more to the story.

    If I take my stab at boling things down, I’d put it this way: Anderson won the first fight, Anderson will win the rematch, and Chael will be 5-5 in the UFC with his fame soon fleeting.

    Of course there’s more to the story there too.

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  • edub says:

    “If I take my stab at boling things down, I’d put it this way: Anderson won the first fight, Anderson will win the rematch, and Chael will be 5-5 in the UFC with his fame soon fleeting.”

    That’s just not good enough though. Unfortunately for you, the last part of the statement is pure opinion. Absolutely no factual base. Which in turn is resulted from your opinion that Chael’s TRT use will effect him more in the first bout, than it will if/when they rematch. Also that Anderson’s Rib injury was what hampered him in the loss (and caused him to lose every second of the fight up until the submission) eventhough the explanation for it has gone back and forth from “happened during the bout at some point” to “happened in training before the fight took place”.

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  • MCM says:

    “and Chael will be 5-5 in the UFC with his fame soon fleeting”

    And that’s where your entire argument falls apart. As already has be proven. Chael is more than capable of beating top 5 opponents. To presume that losing to Silva is somehow going to knock him into obscurity is ridiculous. Even if he loses to a “healthy” AS, he’ll still be one of the most formidable fighters in the division.
    Given his natural wining abilities and the fact that he’s full of blarney, there’s not reason to presume that he won’t be a force within the UFC for at least the next few years.

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  • Screenplaya says:

    What I like most about Chael Sonnen is:
    - his boring lay and pray style (He controlled Nate Marquardt, was in a bad position for maybe 30 seconds total, but when the fight was over, he looked like he got hit with a bat and Nate was unscathed)
    - his inability to avoid being choked
    - his utter lack of class (Calling arguably the best champ in UFC history a coward? He may not actually be an arrogant ass, but he portrays one all the time, so it is the same thing.)

    He got choked. He can’t accept that that is the same as being KOed. Let Munoz try to cripple him before either of them gets a sniff at the title.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    I’m looking ahead, no question. So pay no mind now, but don’t be surprised when it happens.

    Chael’s 2nd loss to Anderson will effectively kill the Sonnen hype machine. Chael’s ramblings related to Anderson Silva–and I don’t think even he will be desperate enough to keep going there–will no longer carry any weight. And without talking about Silva, Chael just isn’t that interesting.

    Nobody gave a crap about Chael Sonnen until he started latching onto Anderson Silva. So once he loses his 2nd (and last) title shot, well, you guys can figure out the rest.

    Then again, Chael will be a rich, rich man after he gets his rematch. So I have no idea where his motivation will be. An embarrassing loss to Silva and he might fall back on his idea to get out of town. Wouldn’t be a shocker. At that stage of his career he’ll sort of be in Rich Franklin territory…really solid fighter with not much place to go. Whatever the case, Chael’s got a few more months to enjoy the limelight.

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  • MickeyC says:

    Chael Sonnen for President! What do you say about that haters? Look everyone gets beat, could be MR. Anderson”s turn. Thats Anderson Silve, Not dude from Matrix.

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  • Sykotick says:

    I’m adding my 2cents WAY late. I see what all of you all are saying, but I fail to see what makes chael so special, BUT in this case, I’m ok with him getting his shot. Had it been an immediate rematch, I’d have done some serious terrible-twos type kicking and screaming. But I do gotta put this out there, the Middleweight division is thin like Brock Lesnar is tiny. The fact that its top heavy is a different story. Much like the Welterweight division, the MW div is just subject to a seriously dominant champ. There are a CRAZY number of “holy shit!!” Good middleweights, from Anderson to Chael, to Stann, Pianos, Belfort, Maia, Munoz, Shields, Rumble, Mardquart, Belcher, etc. The fact that The Spider makes em look amateur is a COMPLETELY different story.
    (Pains me greatly to say that cuz I have a serious man crush on Vitor, I think I’ve stated that I’d pick him to KO god in a fight)

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  • Sykotick says:

    Idk how my phone got pianos out of Okami

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  • edub says:

    “Chael’s 2nd loss to Anderson will effectively kill the Sonnen hype machine. Chael’s ramblings related to Anderson Silva–and I don’t think even he will be desperate enough to keep going there–will no longer carry any weight. And without talking about Silva, Chael just isn’t that interesting.”

    It goes both ways. Anderson’s buy rates as a PPV headliner had been decreasing periodically ever since the Cote fight, and after the Maia fight people were openly calling for him to be fed to a top tier LHW.

    Since Sonnen started the shit talking his popularity (along with Sonnen’s) has gone through the roof. Anderson makes a hell of a lot more money fighting Sonnen then he does fighting Yushin Okami.

    “Nobody gave a crap about Chael Sonnen until he started latching onto Anderson Silva. So once he loses his 2nd (and last) title shot, well, you guys can figure out the rest.

    Then again, Chael will be a rich, rich man after he gets his rematch. So I have no idea where his motivation will be. An embarrassing loss to Silva and he might fall back on his idea to get out of town. Wouldn’t be a shocker. At that stage of his career he’ll sort of be in Rich Franklin territory…really solid fighter with not much place to go. Whatever the case, Chael’s got a few more months to enjoy the limelight.”

    You do realize how stupid you will look, and how little anybody will take you seriously if Chael comes out and does the same thing in their rematch (except holds on) right?

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  • Rece Rock says:

    holy shit this thread needs an enema…

    First off as immature or non contribuiting as it may be I gotta say -Fuck Cheal Sonnen.

    Second, yes he should get another shot against Silva BUT not the next shot… He held up the rematch with his Commision issues and his uncooperative responses to the commisions, so now he can wait and be patient like everybody else had to be for his return… I hate cheal but until Silva finishes this guy AGAIN then we gotta deal with this bullshit.

    and in closing – Fuck Cheal Sonnen.

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  • edub says:

    holy shit this thread needs an enema…

    “First off as immature or non contribuiting as it may be I gotta say -Fuck Cheal Sonnen.

    Second, yes he should get another shot against Silva BUT not the next shot… He held up the rematch with his Commision issues and his uncooperative responses to the commisions, so now he can wait and be patient like everybody else had to be for his return… I hate cheal but until Silva finishes this guy AGAIN then we gotta deal with this bullshit.

    and in closing – Fuck Cheal Sonnen.”

    See, at least your being honest.

    However, who IYO should get the next shot.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    “You do realize how stupid you will look, and how little anybody will take you seriously if Chael comes out and does the same thing in their rematch (except holds on) right?”

    Sure.

    But instead I’ll be questioning how y’all were naive enough to eat up the Chael hype while largely ignoring the fluky circumstances that contributed to the first fight.

    One way or the other, should be a pretty decisive verdict once the rematch happens. (:

    If the rematch does happen in Vegas SB weekend I’ll likely be there, and putting my money where my mouth is. Something tells me the Chael backers won’t be doing the same.

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  • edub says:

    “But instead I’ll be questioning how y’all were naive enough to eat up the Chael hype while largely ignoring the fluky circumstances that contributed to the first fight.”

    Nobody is eating any hype up. That’s the problem with your train of thought. We are taking what actually happened in the fight, and saying that the rematch will most likely be close. You have taken a version of the transpired events and convinced your self that certain parts are what contributed to the fight, largely ignoring other major factors (Anderson disliking pressure fighters, Anderson having subpar wrestling, etc…).

    The only circumstances surrounding the fight that could be classified as fluky are the way Anderson won the fight itself (eventhough Chael has lost that way many times), and Anderson’s supposed rib injury (which has had versions aplenty given to the media). Chaels physical power and speed will be exactly the same.

    If the odds come out at +200 or more for Chael I will most likely throw 250-500 down on him. If it’s any less I’ll stay away from the fight completely.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    Don’t put any $$ on Chael, man. We can have our fun on here, lobbing stuff back & forth, but don’t lose money on Chael. Nobody deserves that.

    I think the first fight was fluky in that Chael fought with elevated testosterone level* while at the same time Anderson was dealing with a debilitating injury.

    *Chael being diagnosed with hypogonadism means his nuts aren’t on par in producing hormones/testosterone. So he’s cleared to have testosterone artificially pumped into him (by doctors and stuff; not by Jose Canseco in the bathroom stall at Sizzler). I understand that he was able to get that part cleared up with the athletic commission in the aftermath of the suspension. The part I admittedly don’t understand is what it means beyond that — so because he has clearance for TRT means his testosterone level can be off the charts? Doesn’t he need to closely monitor his level in order to still meet testing requirements? Having a pass for synthetic testosterone (i.e. juicing) is one thing; but there’s gotta be a reasonable threshold I would think/hope.

    In other words, was Chael suspended for: a) having elevated testosterone, b) non-disclosure of the fact he was using synthetic testosterone (i.e. TRT) or c) both?

    I don’t get how that all fits together. I think TRT–in the context of professional athletes–is pretty damn shady but I’ll go ahead & give Chael or Nate or whoever else the benefit of the doubt. But hopefully these guys are still being held to a reasonable standard… just cuz their testes aren’t pumping out normal hormones (for whatever reason) doesn’t mean they should be able to artificially juice themselves beyond normal levels.

    edub – shed some light?

    Lastly, while I think the TRT stuff is a slimy tactic by a shady guy and has aided Chael’s ascent to some degree (whether big or small) to where he’s at today, I don’t think it’s nearly as significant as Anderson’s health. If Anderson enters the rematch at full strength there’s nothing Chael can do to be on his level. I don’t care if Chael is pissing neon orange from having so much juice running thru his veins.

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  • Rece Rock says:

    “However, who IYO should get the next shot.”

    Well…… that’s the problem…
    Munoz – it seems to soon
    Maia- just got beat by Munoz and the last match up btn Maia & Silva was terrible.
    Nate- no longer with UFC…
    Bisping/ Mayhem winner…. ehh not so much.
    Belfort… lost to Silva convincingly… beat akiyama if he beats Johnson is that title shot worthy… nope
    Tim Kennedy just got signed right?? too soon for a title shot and undeserving at this time any how.

    Ummmmm SIGN HECTOR LOMBARD!

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  • edub says:

    “Don’t put any $$ on Chael, man. We can have our fun on here, lobbing stuff back & forth, but don’t lose money on Chael. Nobody deserves that.”

    I appreciate it, but it’s too big of a style advantage to not take a shot at.

    Note: I won 400 the first fight taking Anderson by 5th round sub.

    “The part I admittedly don’t understand is what it means beyond that — so because he has clearance for TRT means his testosterone level can be off the charts? Doesn’t he need to closely monitor his level in order to still meet testing requirements? Having a pass for synthetic testosterone (i.e. juicing) is one thing; but there’s gotta be a reasonable threshold I would think/hope.”

    And that my firend is the biggest problem with TRT usage. It looks closely monitored when guys like Chael and Nate get busted for “elevated levels”, but the problem is with their “disease” and “treatement” the levels in their urine could be off the chart one day and back to normal the very next (making it very hard for me to see how the physical advanteges of taking synthetic testosterone don’t stay beyond one day). An example is Nate was too high two days prior to his fight with Story, but he took a urine test the same day his fight (should’ve) happened and his levels were normal. That’s why all charges by the PSAC were dropped.

    It’s insane to me to think that guys can get shot up with testosterone and call it “treatment” (especially when the most likely cause for the dimished levels of natural testosterone in their system was most likely cause by prior PED use), when they compete in a sport that involves doing harm to another human being. But that’s the law of the land right now. The checks and balances behind it are quite appalling.

    And on top of that I’m supposed to believe that an injection taken place just days prior won’t effect an athlete’s perfromance just because it “evens out” their levels in a test? Sorry that just seems retarted to me. I’ve taken PED’s before, I know the type of impact they have on a body athletically (its monumental).

    As for Anderson’s health part: I’m very skeptical of his explanation. First it happened during the fight, then it happened weeks prior, then a different report had it at just days prior to the fight. On top of that you have to take into account the shady nature his camp has produced information in the past.

    If I had to guess at it, I would say it happened in the first or second round at some point.

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    Thanks…helps shed a little more light for me.

    So am I correct in assuming a guy cleared for TRT still has to fall within normal range at test time? BUT–to your point–the surrounding days he could be significantly elevated, just be the nature of how the TRT works and the drastic swings it can bring?

    Makes me wonder how well these guys, and their docs, can control those swings. Assuming the first part is true (that come test time, they have to be within range), seems like they’re rolling the dice with TRT and would be wise to error on the low side.

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  • edub says:

    “Well…… that’s the problem…
    Munoz – it seems to soon
    Maia- just got beat by Munoz and the last match up btn Maia & Silva was terrible.
    Nate- no longer with UFC…
    Bisping/ Mayhem winner…. ehh not so much.
    Belfort… lost to Silva convincingly… beat akiyama if he beats Johnson is that title shot worthy… nope
    Tim Kennedy just got signed right?? too soon for a title shot and undeserving at this time any how.”

    Exactly. Just not much else there. Although I freaking love the Kennedy match up at some point.

    “Ummmmm SIGN HECTOR LOMBARD!”

    Ughhhhhh…. Really? The who hasn’t fought a decent challenger since losing to Gegard Mousasi and Gono in Pride?

    I guess he is as worthy as the other choices outside of Chael though…

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  • MCM says:

    At this point, arguing Chael’s TRT levels is a immaterial. He’ll be entering the cage with the same levels this time around as he did last time. So counting that as “fluky” isn’t logical. So the only difference between the first and second fight is Silva’s supposed rib injury. Now I have no idea whether he was really hurt or not as the only evidence we have is the word from Silva’s camp, but for the sake of argument let’s say he was. We don’t know whether he entered the fight with the injury or whether he sustained the injury during the fight, but I don’t think it should matter. What we know (if we believe there was a real rib injury) is that an injured AS is very beatable. The question we need answered is “Is a healthy one?”

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  • edub says:

    “So am I correct in assuming a guy cleared for TRT still has to fall within normal range at test time?”

    Yep, technically he is supposed to be, but those levels are decided by each state. Not some central governing body. Example: Chael suspension on record now is officially suspended from not providing the correct paperwork, and lying to the commission. It no longer consists of “elevated levels”, because these elevated levels are so easy to challenge in court (considering there are no specific guidlines).

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    “At this point, arguing Chael’s TRT levels is a immaterial. He’ll be entering the cage with the same levels this time around as he did last time.”

    Will he though? Maybe I’m dense, but I’m still not clear on that.

    I’ll ask it this way again:

    For the first fight, was Chael suspended for a) a) having elevated testosterone, b) non-disclosure of the fact he was using synthetic testosterone (i.e. TRT) or c) both?

    I’d *like* to think he was suspended for both and that the difference this time around is he got the TRT part cleared up with the commission. Meaning, he’s now got a pass to use synthetic testosterone (administered by a doc) but still has to maintain normal level.

    Am I still off base?

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  • Richard Stabone says:

    So technically, it seems Chael will have to enter the rematch with normal testosterone level whereas he was elevated the first time. But based on the way edub has spelled it out I can see where that’s an ambiguous mess.

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  • Rece Rock says:

    Do you guys think a motivated silva loses to a less juiced sonnen?? an opponent he beat while he was injured and fighting unmotivated… You call the p4p best a coward and make remarks about his family & countrymen/ friends….? Silva is gonna slaughter this guy in 2rounds…That’s why I could care less to see it… He hurt silva in that first fight he was winning and he was juiced and still got finished… There’s nothing left for me to see from this match honestly except silva to embarrass him & send him on his careers downward spiral… After silva rematch Sonnen will be an after thought or He can talk his way into other match ups he doesn’t deserve.

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  • edub says:

    “Do you guys think a motivated silva loses to a less juiced sonnen?? an opponent he beat while he was injured and fighting unmotivated… You call the p4p best a coward and make remarks about his family & countrymen/ friends….?”

    -IMO Chael won’t be any less juiced up, and Anderson’s injury is very suspect. That said I think it’s a 50/50 fight (which I’ve said on here on may occasions). Silva has come in “mad” and “angry” before and it worked against Vitor, it seemed to backfire against Sonnen in their first fight, and it made for one of the worst fights in UFC history against Demian Maia.

    -If Silva beats him, he will probably fade into the rest of the MW division, because I doubt he will get another shot at Anderson (sort of like a Rich Franklin situation). However, acting like Silva winning is a foregone conclusion because Chael won’t be juiced up “as much”, or Anderson won’t have a medically unclearable injury walking into the cage is not a correct train of thought IMO.

    -If Chael doesn’t deserve this fight then nobody in the MW division does.

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  • MickeyC says:

    Regardless of who wins or how the last fight worked out or the suspension, or injury. One thing CANNOT be disputed. Sonnen’s plan is working. I mean would this thread be as long as it is if not for his trash talk. Dude practically set the date for his next fight as well as his opponent with his games. Like him or not, he will get to fight Anderson and probably under his terms. And we are ALL contributing to it with every key we hit.

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