After his tenure in PRIDE came to an end in the months that proceeded Zuffa’s acquisition of the promotion in 2007, Millen took some time off before being approached by an old friend from his PRIDE days, Vadim Finkelstein.

Finkelstein, the manager for former PRIDE heavyweight champion Fedor Emelianenko, had plans to grow his Russian-based M-1 promotion into a global superpower. In Millen, he was looking for an experienced hand to help direct the company’s International television operations.

For close to a year now, Millen has worked hand-in-hand with Finkelstein in trying to help M-1 expand its global presence, and in doing so he’s broadened his unique perspective into the industry by also working closely with Fedor. Currently a Vice President with M-1, Millen produced the promotion’s recent “M-1 Challenge,” an International competition featuring MMA teams from nine different countries with representatives in the five major weight classes going head-to-head.

Having secured distribution throughout the world, M-1 recently struck a deal with Denver-based HDNet to broadcast one-hour episodes produced from the tapings that took place during the course of the year. The first episode is set to debut tomorrow (Friday) at 8 p.m. ET and Millen has been doing press to promote the show’s U.S. premiere.

One of the press stops on his agenda was an exclusive one-on-one interview with FiveOuncesOfPain.com where Millen provided more detail about the M-1 Challenge; what his working relationship with Fedor’s management is like; the status of the proposed “Fighting Fedor” reality show; whether Fedor’s legacy in the U.S. is important to him; his response to recent claims by Dana White and Lorenzo Fertitta that Fedor’s record isn’t relevant; if Finkelstein is willing to give on certain demands in order to make a dream match between Fedor and Randy Couture become a reality; and more.

Sam Caplan: A lot of people on the Internet forums love to rip you. They like to speculate what you’re up to these days and claim you’re working in the fast food industry. Just to set the record straight, what is Jerry Millen up to now?

Jerry Millen: Honestly, I worked in fast food, as most of us did, when I was 15 and 16-years old after my paper route to make my living as a teenager. But I haven’t worked in fast food in a long time. I’ve actually been working with Vadim Finkelstein and Fedor (Emelianenko) for M-1 Global out of Russia and Holland for probably about 11 months now. Right after PRIDE ended I took a little time off to spend some time with my family. I have a great family with three great kids and a great wife. I took a paid vacation and did some fishing.

The UFC buying PRIDE was a great move financially for me but personally I hated it because I loved PRIDE. A lot of people don’t know that the “Decade” show that we did, which you can find on the Internet now, the UFC tried to stop it from being produced. While I was producing it I got a lot of problems from the UFC because they didn’t want it to air and they tried to shut it down. On my own dime at some points, I went on the road and did a lot of interviews with those guys in that show because I felt so strongly about the PRIDE product and it was our ten year anniversary. And Sakikabara-san, who was a great boss, a great person, and a great friend to work for at PRIDE and I thought that the fans deserved to know as much of the story of PRIDE that I could tell.

So that was the last project for PRIDE that I worked on and it was very difficult. I had to call on a lot of people for favors and I had to put in some of my own money to put that thing together because I wanted people to see what PRIDE was and how great it was. After that I took some time off when the UFC bought PRIDE and I was well taken care of and I probably could have worked for the UFC but I chose not to. I thought I wouldn’t work for Dana White, and I won’t.

Sam Caplan: You mean there would have been an option for you to work for the UFC? Do you think Dana White would have been okay with you working for him?

Jerry Millen: I’m not sure if Dana would have been okay with it but at the end of the day, even though he leads people to believe it, Dana White is not the one who runs the UFC. As you can tell, Lorenzo Fertitta stepped in to run it like a business because Lorenzo Fertitta — who’s a great guy, I think he’s an awesome guy, I’ve met him a few times — he’s a business man to run the business-end of the UFC. I would just not work for Dana White.

Sam Caplan: Looking back towards the final months of PRIDE, do you have any regrets about becoming such a public figure?

Jerry Millen: No, not at all. I think in the end whatever we could have done to make PRIDE more public and mainstream worked out for the best. As you know, for so many years PRIDE was underground. As great of an event it was in Japan and worldwide, it never got great exposure in the U.S. So every time Dana White said “Jerry Millen is this” or “Jerry Millen is that” or “PRIDE is this” or “PRIDE is that,” it made anyone who didn’t know PRIDE familiar with the product because Dana White was talking about it. So I was more than happy to have Dana be our number one P.R. guy. Was it at my expense? Sure. But hey, no problem, it was worth it because I think PRIDE was something that everyone should have seen.

Sam Caplan: M-1 has a deal to broadcast the M-1 Challenge on HDNet. Can you tell us more about the concept behind the M-1 Challenge?

Jerry Millen: When Vadim approached me to work for him I jumped at the chance. I said “Yeah, I’d love to.” Then they told me about the M-1 Challenge idea and I tried to help them with another vehicle, the “Fighting Fedor” reality show — which we can talk about a little later — but the M-1 Challenge consists of nine teams with five fighters on each team. We have nine countries represented. We have Team USA, which is Heath Sims out of Dan Henderson’s Team Quest gym in Temecula. We’ve got five guys through Heath and then Matt Lindland helped me out. We’ve got Team Japan. We’ve also got two teams from Russia: Russia Legion and also the Red Devil team, which is Fedor and Vadim’s gym in St. Petersburg. Korea, Spain, we have a World Team, Finland, France, and also Holland.

I’m telling you, some of the fighters that we have in the M-1 Challenge, I think they can jump right into any major promotion. We’ve got a guy from Holland by the name of Bogdan Christea and another guy from Team Holland, Jason Jones, who is a very tough fighter. There’s Jessie Gibson, a heavyweight from Holland. There’s also a guy by the name of Karl Amoussou. Even though MMA isn’t legal in France they have a lot of fighters and Karl Amoussou is a great fighter out of France. And then there’s a fighter named Kiril Sidelnikov. They call him “Baby Fedor.” This kid is tough. He’s 19-years old and he can take a punch and he can deliver a punch. He is “Baby Fedor.” One name to remember out of Russia is Kiril. He’s a tough, tough fighter. And on Team USA there’s also Jake Ellenberger, David Garner, and Mike Dolce, who was on the seventh season of “The Ultimate Fighter.” There’s a lot of young up and comers but a lot of these guys are already good.

We have a website where you can learn more about the M-1 Challenge at M1Mixfight.com.

Sam Caplan: So the M-1 Challenge is an International team competition. Are standings kept?

Jerry Millen: Yes, standings are kept.

Sam Caplan: So basically the M-1 Challenge is like the World Cup of MMA?

Jerry Millen: Right, exactly. Because in Europe and other countries besides the USA, nationalism is a big deal. You go out and you support your country. It’s like in the NFL, if you like the Falcons or the Jets this year… there in Europe, and even in Asia, it’s not about team, it’s about country. It’s like soccer. They are crazy about the country. It’s country vs. country. So that’s what we’re trying to do, but on a world level.

Sam Caplan: We all know of UFC President Dana White’s comments about his dealings with Fedor’s management in which he referred to them on multiple occasions as “Crazy Russians.” Thus far, and I guess maybe you can’t answer this as truthfully as you’d like, but I’d still like to get your comments on the record: what’s it been like working with Fedor’s management? Are the Russians as crazy as Dana says?

Jerry Millen: Not at all. Never. Anytime I go to Russia I have a great time. They treat me with respect. They’re great to me. I feel like in PRIDE that I was taken care of very well by the owners and treated great. This feels like an extension of PRIDE. Vadim is thought of as being great over there. Dana White’s arrogance is what makes him say these things. Dana White the rockstar is the one who is claiming these are crazy Russians. To me, they’re great Russians. I’d much rather have dinner and hang out with Vadim Finkelstein than Dana White any day of the week.

Sam Caplan: I’m not going to bother to ask whether you agree with White’s appraisal of Fedor as a fighter. I did want to ask if you believe White is sincere when he makes these negative statements about Fedor?

Jerry Millen: No, it’s the company line. Lorenzo made a statement the other day saying that Fedor’s career and his record is irrelevant. (Laughs) Well, I know it’s the company line. You can’t say that the best fighter pound-for-pound in the world is Fedor Emelianenko if he’s not in the UFC. They can’t tell people they don’t have the best fighter in the world under contract. You can’t say that because it’s not good business. But to go out there and say his record is irrelevant when he just smashed and embarrassed your former champion in Tim Sylvia. He’s beaten your interim heavyweight champion Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira twice. People know. If you know Fedor and you’ve seen any of his fights, you know. And the UFC knows and Dana and Lorenzo knows and they want him badly. They just need to figure out some way to make it work.

M-1 and Vadim are willing to work things out. Fedor is willing to fight anyone. I feel like this is the PRIDE situation when Dana didn’t want to let Wanderlei fight Chuck. This deal can be done but it has to make sense for everyone. We’re partners with Affliction right now. Fedor is signed to Affliction. So it has to be a deal that makes sense for M-1, Affliction, and of course the UFC. The fight can happen. If the fans want the fight, it can happen. The fans just need to let the UFC know “Hey, we’re not going to stand for this, we want to see Randy and Fedor.”

Sam Caplan: But Dana White and the UFC have made it clear that they’re not going to sign a guy to a one-fight contract and co-promote with the competition. If they bring someone in to compete for their title then they want a long-term agreement and they want them committed solely to their promotion. They’ve been clear on that. What good is it asking for anything other than that?

Jerry Millen: Well, I guess that long-term is all relative. What is long-term? The UFC likes to grab guys and wrap them up for the rest of their life and own them. That’s great from a business standpoint if you’re the owners of the UFC but if you only have one entity such as the WWE, which owns the sport to an extent and tries to crush its competition, that’s great for the business of the UFC but what about the fighters that want to get in there and get paid? They’re not going to get paid because the UFC is essentially a monopoly. If they own it then they control the payscales, they control who is going to work in the industry, they control which websites are going to get interviews and they control who doesn’t get backstage to interview fighters. They will control everything and the fans need to understand this.

Look, I’m a fan of the UFC. They’ve got a lot of great fighters and a lot of those fighters are my friends. I watch the UFC. I bought the pay-per-view. I can’t believe I bought a pay-per-view and put money in Dana White’s pocket but I want to see Chuck Liddell fight and I want to see Rich Franklin fight, so I had to. But if they own the industry then the fans are the ones that are going to hurt because they’re going to control it. It’s just not possible. I want MMA to continue on as a sport and not a fad.

Sam Caplan: Let me throw a hypothetical out here. Let’s say that Fedor’s contract with Affliction is expired and he’s a total free agent. Would he and his management be open to an exclusive three fight contract with the UFC in order to get fights against opponents such as Randy Couture and maybe another fight vs. Nogueira? Like you said, the deal has to make sense but it also has to make sense for both sides. Do you think Fedor’s management might be willing to make concessions that they haven’t been willing to make in the past?

Jerry Millen: I can’t speak for what Vadim and Fedor would do on a contract because that’s not my position but I do know that our stance can be worked out as long as there is give and take. But if someone wants to take more than they’re willing to give then it could be a problem. They’re always willing to talk. If the UFC wants the best fighter in the world, they can make it happen. It’s just something that has to be fair to everybody. It has to be fair. There’s no reason why something can’t be fair.

Sam Caplan: I wanted to follow up regarding what Lorenzo Ferttita and Dana White have said about Fedor being irrelevant. Globally, he’s a huge name. But in the U.S. is there any validity to what they’re saying because even though the win over Tim Sylvia in July was huge, there’s still a lot of work to be done as far as establishing him with the mainstream public in America. How important is building a legacy in the U.S. to Fedor?

Jerry Millen: I think Fedor is an International star. Even I didn’t realize how big of a star he was in Korea until I was out there with him. It was out of control. He’s a huge star in Korea. But I think every country is important to him. Fedor fights because it’s in his blood. He’s a true athlete. Fedor trains and fights and does Sambo competitions. He’s a triathlete. He just goes and goes and goes. How important is the U.S. to him? I guess that’s a question you’d have to ask him.

Sam Caplan: But a lot of people in the U.S. do not consider him to be the pound-for-pound best simply because they’ve never been exposed to him.

Jerry Millen: I think he’s more known than people think he is here in America. To me, I think it’s important for him to be big in America because he is the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world. There’s nobody in the world that can beat him. There are a couple of heavyweights that will read that and probably smack me around the next time they see me but I don’t think there’s anyone out there that we know of that can beat him. For me it’s important for him to be known in America because people need to know him because he’s the Joe Louis, the Mike Tyson of the sport.

Just look at the Tim Sylvia fight. Not even I expected the fight to go like that. I expected him to win but I was shocked at how quickly that fight ended. But that’s Fedor. He pretty much cleared up any doubters that were out there. You’re always going to have those guys who go “Well this” or “Well that.” But I think he pretty much cleared up any doubts people had in their minds about him such as ring rust or whatever.

But to me it is important that he becomes popular in America because he is such a great fighter and if you love the sport then you’ve got to see the guy fight. He’s that good and he’s such a great person. And I’m not trying to tow the company lines by any means; he is a great individual. I knew him through all of his years with PRIDE and he was always nice to me and very humble. And he’s still the same guy even though he’s mobbed by the media and all the fans.

Sam Caplan: Fedor was supposed to fight on the ill-fated Oct. 11 Affliction show but had to pull out due to a hand injury. Perhaps you don’t know the answer to this but you’re much closer to him than most people so I thought I’d ask when you felt we’d see Fedor back fighting again?

Jerry Millen: I would say January. The middle of January.

Sam Caplan: Is that going to be in Russia, Japan, or the U.S.? Where’s his next fight going to take place?

Jerry Millen: We’re not sure yet.

Sam Caplan: You mentioned the “Fighting Fedor” reality TV show earlier and I think that’s something that could make Fedor a bigger name here in the U.S. The trailers for the proposed show were leaked several months back. Rumor had it that you are one of the key people behind the concept. Is that correct and if so, can you give us an update on the status of the show?

Jerry Millen: What happened was when Vadim, Fedor, and I got together… my thing is, if you want an MMA promotion just doing pay-per-views and shows, that’s not enough. You need another vehicle. Fedor needs a vehicle in America and worldwide to expose him to those that don’t know him. And when I first started working for the company I told them we needed a vehicle for Fedor. And of course, reality television is hot. I told them we needed to do a reality show for Fedor. But what could you do for a reality show about Fedor that would be compelling? So I created a trailer and put some ideas down and showed it to them and they loved it.

The thing is, it’s hard to find opponents for Fedor. It really is. Who do you want to put him up against? And when you find that opponent they want a ton of money. They go, “I’m fighting Fedor. I want to get paid a ton of money.” So why not create some opponents for him? “The Ultimate Fighter?” They did a great job with that show. That show saved the UFC. It saved Spike TV. It’s well known that was what turned the UFC around. That vehicle. They spent millions of dollars doing everything from hiring Carmen Elektra to doing infomercial type of stuff and none of it worked. “The Ultimate Fighter” worked because it was hot and continues to be hot.

I’ve been to Russia and I’ve seen the Red Devil gym. The Red Devil gym is not “The Ultimate Fighter” house in Las Vegas. There’s not an open bar and a big swimming pool. It’s inside of an old Russian sports school and it’s a very humble gym. It’s like a lot of gyms I’ve seen around the U.S. It’s nothing fancy. It’s these Russian kids that train and train hard. If you train you know you don’t need a big swimming pool and fancy food and a big gym to plant TVs all over the wall in order to train.

It’s a very hardcore gym. The first time I saw it I said people need to see this and to see how Fedor how humble he is. People need to see this. So I said we need to do a show like “Fighting Fedor.” Let’s bring in 16 heavyweights from around the world and have them fight each other weekly in an elimination tournament. We could bring in some of the guys that have fought Fedor in the past to help train them.

There’s so many things you can do with a show like “Fighting Fedor.” You can show what Russia is really like and how they train at Red Devil and how Fedor trains. You would get insight into who Fedor is because Fedor is a mystery to most people that don’t know him. It’s a vehicle to show it all.

Sam Caplan: What’s the U.S. distribution for the show looking like?

Jerry Millen: We’re talking to a lot of different people. Some of the networks, you’d be surprised that we’re talking to about it. The thing with the M-1 Challenge and the “Fighting Fedor” show is that we’re going to be on over 60 countries on television. We have deals all over the place: Russia, Japan, and Korea so the show will be seen Internationally. In the U.S. right now there are a couple we are talking to and as Fedor gets larger I think there’s going to be even more interest. In my mind, the show is going to be awesome. It will give MMA fans, whether they like the idea or not, they will watch it because it gives them a chance to see how the best fighter in the world train and who he is.

Sam Caplan: Some people have criticized the concept, claiming that it’s a TUF knockoff. What’s your response to those criticisms?

Jerry Millen: First off, those people don’t know anything about television. Number two, “The Ultimate Fighter?” Great show, great vehicle for the UFC. Craig Piligian does a great job with that show but reality television is not new. “The Ultimate Fighter” is not a new concept. “The Real World” on MTV started reality television. Having bunch of people live in a house and fight either verbally or physically and be eliminated is not a new concept so saying it’s a “Ultimate Fighter” ripoff? Absolutely not. It’s a completely different concept. We’ll have fighters fight because that’s what they do. They’re fighters, they’re going to fight. It’s not like we’re going to have them play chess and skip rope. They will fight.

It’s reality television and “The Ultimate Fighter” is not a new concept. They took the sport and said let’s make a reality television show about this sport. We’re doing the same thing. We’re just going to happen to be doing it with the best fighter in the world.

Sam Caplan: Last week on Scott Ferrall’s show on Sirius you called the Randy Couture vs. Brock Lesnar matchup at UFC 91 “some WWE stuff.” But what about Fedor’s fight vs. Hong Man Choi last New Year’s Eve?

Jerry Millen: Let me say this about the Japanese MMA scene because I worked in it for six years; it’s different than the U.S.A. scene. Those kinds of matches, Hong Man Choi and Akebono, they’re standard in Japan. You see them over and over again because they draw ratings and numbers. At the end of the day, they have to draw numbers for the networks in Japan. Giant Silva drew some of the biggest numbers on New Year’s Eve in all of MMA fights ever in Japan. A lot of people don’t know that.

But that’s the standard in Japan. In the U.S., you’re not going to see “The Rock” come in and fight Nogueira so it’s not the standard for MMA in America. I know what the UFC is trying to do because they control the UFC. It’s a business move. Brock Lesnar is someone I’m sure they are paying a lot of money to and he has a name. They want to put him up against a big name and Randy is coming back. I just feel, as I’m sure many true MMA fans do, that if Randy Couture was the champion when he left and comes back as the champion and (with) Nogueira (as) your interim champion, I would assume in a structured fight league that the champion that comes back would fight the interim champion because the interim champion earned the right to be the champion in the original champ’s absence. The champion should fight the champion and Nogueira has earned that right.

But Brock Lesnar vs. Randy will do a big pay-per-view number and it will put a lot of money in their pocket and it will create a lot of hype for them so they’re going to do it. That’s what happens when you have one company control the majority of the sport; they can do what they want. That’s the problem. To me, it’s a WWE move. Brock Lesnar is 1-1 in MMA. There’s no way in hell Brock Lesnar deserves a title shot in the UFC over Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. There’s no way.

Sam Caplan: Based on your role with M-1, I believe you were involved with the International television production for “Affliction: Banned.” I also believe you have some friends there. White recently predicted that Affliction would be out of business by January and he’s not alone in that belief. Do you agree with White’s assessment?

Jerry Millen: No. Tom Atencio is a close friend of mine. They do a great job at Affliction. They understand the sport. They’re a new company and just like with most new companies, it takes time to grow. And Dana doesn’t want them to be in business. Of course not. Dana White does not want competition because he wants to be the only kid on the block. He’s the kid in the schoolyard with the basketball that threatens to take the ball off the court when he leaves.

Affliction will not disappear like Dana thinks or wishes. It won’t happen. Affliction is a viable company. You have to remember, Affliction is a brand so when they do an Affliction fighting event, it’s promoting their lifestyle brand. It’s goes hand-in-hand.

Sam Caplan: During your days with PRIDE you spent some time getting to know Quinton Jackson. What’s your take on Quinton as a person?

Jerry Millen: Quinton is awesome. I love Quinton Jackson. He’s a great individual. I hung out with Quinton in Japan a lot. Unfortunately, in the past couple of years I haven’t talked to Quinton a lot because he’s working in the UFC and he’s been busy. But I got to know him very well in Japan and as a person, when his guard is down, he’s a great individual. I know he’s had some issues lately but to me, Quinton Jackson the person is more important than Quinton Jackson the fighter.

I want to see Quinton get through this tough time in his life and come out okay. Anyone who knows Quinton that reads this knows that he’s a great guy and that people make mistakes. I just hope he makes it through this. He’s got kids and people don’t understand that if they don’t have kids or families that they’re a lot of things that go on in life of a fighter besides just fighting. He’s a good guy and Quinton will make it through.

Sam Caplan: Do you think Quinton should be fighting anytime soon?

Jerry Millen: That’s a decision Quinton Jackson has to make. I just would like to see Quinton take care of all of his other issues before he gets back in the cage. I just hope Dana White is not trying to push back into the cage and be a false friend just to make a buck because Dana has been known to do those kind of things. When it’s all said and done this is the fight game and it’s a sport but at the end of the day there’s people’s lives on the line. I would like to see Quinton Jackson the individual okay before we see Quinton Jackson the fighter.

Sam Caplan: Tito Ortiz recently came out and was very critical of Jackson’s former trainer and manager, Juanito Ibarra. Did you ever have any dealings with Ibarra?

Jerry Millen: (Laughs very loud) Yes, actually I did. Towards the end of the WFA, there had been some discussion about trying to get Quinton to come back to PRIDE. So I called him up to try and schedule a meeting. There were some people in PRIDE that had mis-treated Quinton and had mis-treated a lot of us, actually. They were let go way before PRIDE had been shut down so I wanted to see if Quinton wanted to come back and see if we could make things right.

So I set up a meeting with Quinton and in the meeting he comes in and sits down and he has this trainer with him I had never met before, this Juanito. I could tell right off the bat that this guy (Ibarra) was just about money. You’ve got to understand that in any business if people see you as a commodity and someone they can make money off of then people are going to swarm around you like sharks. They’re going to try and make a buck off you and they’re going to try and be your friend. That’s just how life is.

I think I’m a pretty good judge of character and I sat down and started talking to Quinton and the first thing out of (Ibarra’s) mouth is, “Hey man, you work in Japan!? I’ve got this natural fruit juice energy drink, can you help me market it in Japan? I want to sell it in Japan!” You know, I was there to talk with Quinton about coming back to PRIDE and not to try and sell some fruit juice in Japan.

So right off the bat a red flag went off about this guy and I said to Quinton, “Who is this guy? I’m trying to get you back into PRIDE and he’s trying to sell me on some fruit juice to sell in Japan. I’m here to talk about you, not to help your trainer market some fruit juice.” So immediately I was wondering “Just who is this guy?” And throughout the conversation he would interject with numbers and pay-per-view numbers and he had no idea what he was talking about. I could just see the guy had money signs in his eyes and I was a little worried at that point. I’m like, this guy is kind of a joker, I hope Quinton is going to be okay. Obviously Quinton went in another direction but I wasn’t too comfortable when I had dealings with (Ibarra). I could tell there was something going on there.

While Mir was made available in order to promote TUF, he was more than willing to discuss everything and anything MMA in what proved to be an intriguing interview. During the course of the conversation we asked Mir to share his thoughts on the recent return of Randy Couture, the surprise upset win of Rashad Evans over Chuck Liddell, his experiences being on the show and the motorcycle accident that nearly ended his career.

As any regular fan of the UFC, WEC, or ESPN’s “MMA Live” knows, Mir’s ability to convey his thought and opinions is second to none and in this one-on-one interview with 5 Oz.’s he was never at a loss for words.

Gary Ibarra: The publisher of FiveOuncesOfPain.com recently wrote a piece about ESPN’s reaction to UFC 88 the upset victory of Rashad Evans over Chuck Liddell. He said that he was all set to write a piece chastising ESPN for its lack of coverage but was pleasantly surprised when SportsCenter aired a ringside satellite segment with Joe Rogan and Mike Goldberg breaking down the fight and discussing the outcomes. How much effect do you think a show like TUF has on the perception of MMA to the mainstream sports media and the public in general who watch the show?

Frank Mir: I think the show goes a long way towards humanizing the sport and the guys. By having the cameras in the house it acts as sort of a window into the real lives of the people who take the sport seriously, and how they really are when they are not in the ring, they’re mostly just regular kids. I mean let’s face it, the public’s perception of MMA is not exactly fantastic. Every time guys like Tank Abbot or Krazy Horse (Charles Bennett) fought or even now with Kimbo Slice; every time Kimbo fights it sets the sport back. Guys like that just reinforce the idea in the public’s eye that we are all blood thirsty barbarians who just want to pummel each other and that there is no skill required. Guys like them do the sport a disservice.

Gary Ibarra: While the formula of the show usually involves playing up some of the confrontations between members of the cast and a little trash talking between the coaches as I’m sure this season was no different, how does it feel to go back and forth with someone whom you’ve said previously is like an idol to you?

Frank Mir: Anyone who’s expecting to see any animosity or back-and-forth between me and Noguiera, as is usually the case between coaches on the show, is going to be extremely disappointed. There wasn’t any of that. Sure there were times when I didn’t like him just as much as I’m sure there were times he didn’t like me, but we let our guys do the fighting for us. We definitely fought vicariously through them this season.

Gary Ibarra: This season I’m sure there are several fighters who you saw that have the potential to make a a career in MMA. But was there any one fighter that you can talk about who you saw that you thought immediately “That guy is going to make it”?

Frank Mir: That’s what I would say is the difference between this season’s cast and the previous casts: the talent level; there is a lot of depth here this season. So much so that I’ve even pulled training partners to help me prepare for my fight with Noguiera. The number of guys that you’ll see on undercards and prelims in the UFC is a definitely high with this group. I would go as far as to say its actually easier for me to pick out the guys who won’t make it just because there were so few of them, I would definitely put this season’s 16 guys against any of the other 16 from previous seasons.

Gary Ibarra: The list of people who were contestants or who have been coaches previously reads like an A list in the UFC: Liddell, Couture, Ortiz, Shamrock, Penn, Pulver, Griffin, and Jackson to name a few. Most of these guys are surefire Hall of Famers. Do you think adding Mir to this list means that you will be there as well?

Frank Mir: Yeah, I would say I will. Obviously it’s going to depend on my next couple of performances, but I do think my name belongs with those others, absolutely.

Gary Ibarra: You’ve been training martial arts almost your entire life, was it difficult for you to become a coach?

Frank Mir: No, not really. My dad owned a martial arts school and I’ve been training my whole life so it wasn’t that much of a stretch. I love martial arts. I like learning new things myself. I’m always sharpening my skills and trying to get better so I liked the teaching aspect of the show.

Gary Ibarra: What would it mean to you to have this season’s winner come from your team?

Frank Mir: It would be satisfying, no doubt, but I couldn’t take too much credit for it. All we as coaches do is impart the knowledge to the best of our ability but it’s up the fighter once he’s in the ring to use that knowledge. Obviously I’d be happy if it was my guy, but I could never attribute another fighter’s performance to myself. I can say that one thing I didn’t count on that happened was the emotional attachment to the guys. You see a good kid lose and it bothers you. I definitely took it home with me some nights.

Gary Ibarra: Was there anything you could say you didn’t like about your experience on the show? Or was there anything you’d like to change about the show itself?

Frank Mir: The only thing I didn’t like is the way the preliminary fights are chosen. I’m not sure there’s much though put into it beforehand. It was more like “Okay, where’s the list? Okay, now you fight you and you fight you and you fight you.” It upset me a little because I would see two guys that were really great fighters have to fight each other in order to get in the house and then two guys who were not so good be put against each other. And I’m thinking if these two good guys both fought those two not so good guys, that would ensure we got the best talent into the house. I think there should have been a little better process to determine who fights who in the prelims.

Gary Ibarra: The show’s validation in the world of MMA is no longer questionable with the rise of alums like Rashad Evans, Forrest Griffin, and Kenny Florian to name a few, what do you foresee as the next step in the growth of MMA?

Frank Mir: I see its growth in popularity only continuing, eventually to the point that boxing had in when it was at its highest point. The only reason it hasn’t reached that point already is the stigma attached to the term “Cage Fighter.” The powers that be may be from a different generation, one that sees the sport as a novelty or having little or no value, but once those people who have that idea are gone you’ll see the sport rise to where it should be. It’s just going to take time.

Gary Ibarra: Your leg injury in 2004 caused people to question weather or not you’d even keep your leg let alone fight again, did you ever question weather or not you’d ever recover?

Frank Mir: Absolutely, I took my first fight back after my injury knowing that I wasn’t ready. I told myself, if I lose to (Marcio) Cruz, I already know in my mind that I wasn’t ready and so I’d have an excuse for myself built in. And after I lost that’s exactly what I did, I excused myself. My next fight I still didn’t feel like I was 100% but I took the fight anyway and after that close win it was the same thing. But in the Vera fight I really felt like I was back to normal. I was squatting in the gym, jumping around on it(the leg), I thought I was back, and when I lost I really felt like I was done. I was convinced that was it. The accident had really ruined my career. I told my wife Jenny “That’s it honey, I think its time to retire.” To say she talked me out of it is putting it mildly. She really let me have it for even talking about quitting. But that was exactly what I needed. I credit her for my rededication to the sport, I wouldn’t be here now if it wasn’t for her.

Gary Ibarra: The injury would have been devastating to most people. It was a definite possibility that you may never fight again. How did the UFC react to their heavyweight champion being told that his career was in danger?

Frank Mir: They reacted the best way they knew how. They waited a lot longer for me then I would have in their position. They created an interim title. Bottom line is they gave me the opportunity to fight again, that’s was all I could ask for.

Gary Ibarra: What did you think of the Evans vs. Liddell outcome?

Frank Mir: I think that Greg Jackson is the greatest trainer of all time.

Gary Ibarra: How did you feel when you heard about Randy Couture’s return to the UFC?

Frank Mir: I was glad to hear it. Randy deserves to be in the UFC if he wants to be and I was just happy that all the legal back-and-forth ended and we get to see him fight again.

Gary Ibarra: And what did you think about him getting the fight against Lesnar right off the bat?

Frank Mir: The only problem I have with that decision by the UFC was that I think they should have waited for the outcome of my fight with ‘Nog to decide who Randy would fight in his return. It would have been better for them to have Randy fight the winner of our fight in order to determine who the heavyweight champion should be. The current champion with the interim tag or the previous champion, that’s what I would have done but it’s not my decision.

Gary Ibarra: Noguiera is one of, if not the most experienced heavyweight champions in the UFC’s history. He gives his opponents a lot to deal with his advanced ground game and ability to outlast his opponents even after sustaining major punishment. Can you give me any insight as to your game plan for fighting him?

Frank Mir: Anyone who goes for broke thinking that they’ve got ‘Nog in trouble has ended up losing. It’s that simple. He bates a lot of his opponents into basically punching themselves out; he outlasts them into the later rounds and finds a way to submit them after their exhausted. I know the fight will end up on the ground. His legs are so bad and I kick so heavy that there’s no way he’s going to want to stand with me. I just need to make sure I don’t get gassed. Going into the later rounds is not something I’m used to which is what gives him an advantage. Our games are completely opposite of each other so it’s going to be interesting.

Gary Ibarra: If you had the ability to fight anyone in the sport of mixed martial arts if weight and time were not a factor, which fighter — past of present — would you choose?

Frank Mir: Anderson Silva, definitely. His ability and his skill set is so diverse that he would definitely be someone I’d like to test my skills against.

Gary Ibarra: Would you ever come down in weight to fight him?

Frank Mir: (Laughing) I think I’ll wait for him to come up.

Editor’s Note: In addition to being a contributor for FiveOuncesOfPain.com, Gary Ibarra is also the owner of his own MMA clothing line, Graffight Apparel. Graffight has established sponsor-based relationships with several fighters. You can click here to access the list.

Despite an amazing resume that includes a 31-4-1 record with notable victories over Tim Sylvia, Josh Barnett, Fabricio Werdum, Ricco Rodriguez, Mirko Cro Cop, Sergei Kharitonov, Mark Coleman, Dan Henderson, Bob Sapp, and Semmy Schilt, Nogueira still has yet to become the star in the U.S. that he was in Japan.

However, starting this Wednesday at 11 p.m. ET, things for Nogueira will change as make his reality television debut and begins to reap the benefits of being attached to the UFC’s most prominent marketing vehicle: “The Ultimate Fighter.”

Nogueira and Frank Mir will serve as opposing coaches on this year’s show as they each will get the opportunity to work with four lightweight and four light heavyweight fighters striving for the goal of becoming the next Ultimate Fighter. Then on Dec. 27 in Las Vegas, the two will square off for Nogueira’s interim heavyweight title and the right to face the winner of the Randy Couture vs. Brock Lesnar heavyweight title fight scheduled for UFC 91 on Nov. 15.

Even though the show has yet to air, Nogueira is already reaping the benefits from being involved with the show, as he’s receiving a lot of exposure after having done a media tour for the show on behalf of Spike TV last week. During his tour, FiveOuncesOfPain.com received an opportunity for an exclusive interview where we discussed Minotauro’s experience on TUF; his feelings about the return of Randy Couture and whether he resents him for leaving in the first place; his prediction on the Couture vs. Lesnar fight; his thoughts on Rafael Feijao and Lyoto Machida, and more.

Sam Caplan: Can you talk about your experience as a coach on “The Ultimate Fighter?”

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira: I had a good time and I had a good team. Before I became a professional fighter I was a jiu-jitsu coach and I did some boxing as well. So I had good coaching experience. I coach the Nogueira team with my brother in Brazil, where I coach jiu-jitsu and MMA. So to me it wasn’t that hard of a job. My team helped me a lot. They were all very good. So it was a good time and a good experience to coach on the show.

Sam Caplan: When Randy Couture left, you expressed in interviews that you would have liked an opportunity to fight him for the title. Did you take it as a sign of disrespect that he was so focused on a fight with Fedor that he felt he need to walk away instead of fighting you?

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira: I don’t care what other people say. I care about doing my job and reaching my goal. My goal is to fight for the belt. I wanted to fight Couture when I came to the UFC and he left. But he is back now and I could have a chance to fight against him. My goal is to fight Randy and to win the fight. I am thinking a lot about it and I intend to do everything in my strength to fight for the belt.

Sam Caplan: How do you feel about Brock Lesnar getting the first opportunity to fight Randy Couture for the heavyweight title?

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira: Brock Lesnar is a marketable fighter. He could be big in the UFC and I think he’s good for business. He’s a good fighter and in his early fights he’s shown he’s legit and that’s why he’s getting a chance. He’s a fighter with a style that makes things harder for Randy Couture because he’s a wrestler. Lesnar will probably try to play the top. But Couture is a more experienced fighter and I think he’s going to do better in the stand up with his hands and that’s why I think he’s going to be the winner of that fight.

Sam Caplan: Your twin brother, Rogerio Minotoro, is an extremely talented fighter in his own right. Has he ever been offered an opportunity to compete for the UFC?

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira: Rogerio Nogueira is fighting for Affliction now and he’s very satisfied there. (But) I’d love to see us fighting again for the same organization. The UFC might be good for him. It’s a good name and a good brand. But for now, he’s fighting for Affliction.

Sam Caplan: You’re a co-trainer of EliteXC light heavyweight Rafael Feijao. He has demolished his competition so far. How do you think he would be in the UFC light heavyweight division?

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira: I think that whenever he goes to the UFC that he’s going to do great. He’s a really good talent; a great fighter. He’s one of the best at 205 in the world right now. He’s new to a lot of people but they’ve got to see this guy. I first saw him a couple of years ago. I was going to buy a farm and he was studying to be a veternarian and I saw him walking a goat. He said some things to me. So I go to his house and he had mats there and I found out he was a black belt in jiu-jitsu. So I rolled with him. The first time I trained with this guy I thought he was going to be a champ. So I asked him to become a professional fighter and to move to my place. And he immediately started out very well in his training but I pushed him very hard for years. He trained three times a day every day for three or four years and now he’s a big name. He’s going to going to be the champ for Elite(XC) for sure and in the future when he gets to the UFC he’s going to be a beast.

Sam Caplan: Speaking of Feijao, I was at his last fight in July in Stockton when he beat Travis Galbraith. And after the fight I went back to my hotel the same night after he had fought I saw you and your brother out jogging at night while everyone was at after-parties. It just surprised me to see you working so hard so late at night with your fight still many months away. Can you talk about the motivation for pushing yourself like that?

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira: The motivation is that if I want to be the champ, I’ve got to train. My brother was supposed to fight in October so it wasn’t that far. When he has a fight, we train together. And when I have a fight, he trains me and motivates me. That’s why we workout together and we’ve worked together successfully for many years. It’s easy to become a champ but it’s hard to stay there. He keeps me up all the time. He makes me food every day. He takes care of my diet and he takes care of my training. And I take care of his MMA and his jiu-jitsu because I’ve coached boxing and coaches jiu-jitsu. We’ve worked together very hard.

Sam Caplan: I wanted to ask you about another fellow countryman, Lyoto Machida. Do you feel he’s getting the respect he deserves?

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira: Lyoto Machida deserves a title shot. He’s a good fighter. He’s very successful in his fighting. He’s a very respectful guy. He has a lot of power and good jiu-jitsu. He has good Karate with good kicks. He’s a good athlete and good all-around. He uses combinations and puts on a good show. In his last fight vs. Tito (Ortiz), he dominated the fight. Tito couldn’t put him down or control him. He had a hard time with him so I think he deserves to have a title shot. And when he gets his title shot I believe he’s going to be the 205 champ of the UFC.

Despite the setback, Hieron has no regrets about his decision to sign with Affliction despite offers from the UFC, WEC, EliteXC, and Strikeforce, and is still working on competing on Oct. 11 at the Thomas & Mack anyway.

During an exclusive interview with FiveOuncesOfPain.com, Hieron revealed that he’s in talks with another promotion to fight on that same date.

“I might be fighting Oct. 11,” Hieron said during the interview. “It’s not confirmed yet but it would be a show in Vegas called X2 Superfights.”

While Hieron was hesitant to go into details due to the fact that he has not finalized a contract, sources revealed to us that Kim Couture, the wife of UFC heavyweight champion Randy Couture, is involved with the planning of the card, which had originally been slated for Oct. 18 but was moved up a week in light of the Affliction postponement.

Matches have yet to be finalized but fights between Mike Whitehead vs. Allan Goes, Josh Haynes vs. Steve Byrnes, Mike Pyle vs. Brian Gassaway, and Hieron vs. Bryson Kamaka could all headline the show. It is also believed that John Alessio could fight on the show as well.

Hieron also still expects to be involved with Affliction’s next show on Jan. 17. Drew Fickett, his opponent for the Oct. 11 show, could still be his opposition.

“I believe so,” Hieron answered when asked if there was still a chance he would face Fickett during the re-scheduled card. “I mean, it’s kind of a long time from now but that’s the plan… That’s definitely a guy I want to fight. I’ve been training for him a couple of weeks now and that’s been a guy I’ve been visualizing in my head that I was going to fight.”

Hieron also revealed that like several other fighters, he first heard about the postponed of the show via the Internet.

“I heard it through the Internet first and then I talked to (Affliction Vice President) Tom (Atencio). Tom called me,” he said.

Prior to signing with Affliction, Hieron received competing offers from the four aforementioned promotions. So does he have any regrets about the choice that he made?

“I spoke to (Affliction) and I believe in those guys,” said Hieron. “I think they’ve got a lot of big things that are about to happen. It’s just one of those things that if it goes through, what they’ve got planned is big, and I’ll be happy to be a part of it… I haven’t fought for them yet but I was at the first show and even before I had signed with them I liked what I had seen. I knew Tom personally. Of course (because) it’s a new organization they’re going to have problems at first but I believe they will come through and it will be good.

“I don’t regret the decision I made. Plus, my contract is great because it’s non-exclusive and it gives me that option of fighting somewhere else with their approval. If I’m not fighting on one of their cards then I can go fight somewhere else. Which is pretty big in the game right now because all of the other organizations are pretty much only signing exclusive deals with fighters.”

While we spoke with Hieron prior to Saturday’s official announcement that Affliction will be working with Golden Boy Promotions, he was well aware of the rumors that had been circulating and feels that the news can only be construed as a positive.

“It’s incredible for the sport and for Affliction,” Hieron responded when asked to address the rumor. “That’s going to blow the roof off of the organization. Oscar De La Hoya is successful in everything that he does as a fighter and a promoter and I believe in him. I think it’s going to be a big positive influence that he’s going to be involved with it.”

The Xtreme Couture fighter also confirmed rumors that he recently made a change in representation. Formerly represented by Monte Cox, one of the pioneers when it comes to fighter management in MMA, Hieron is now working with Ken Pavia and his firm, MMA Agents.

“I worked with Monte Cox for a period of my career,” he began. “He’s a great manager but I just think I was looking for something different. He’s got a lot of guys and is a busy man. I just changed a lot of things up. I was a free agent for awhile. I didn’t just go out from Monte and jump into a relationship with a new manager. I took my time to see what worked for me and Pav was definitely a guy I wanted to work with. He works with a lot of guys in my camp and they’ve got a lot of respect for him. He does a lot of great things for them. We’re on the same page right now and hopefully we can do big things together.”

Hieron confessed that the decision to leave Cox wasn’t easy but that he felt he had to do what was best for his career.

“Of course it was tough (decision to leave). I had a relationship with the guy. He did things for me. But at the end of the day a fighter has to do what’s best for himself. I’m the one out there doing the fighting. I chose to leave him and go somewhere else because (while) he’s a great manager, he’s real busy right now.”

Palhares made his UFC debut at UFC 84 this past May thanks in large part to his impressive 3-0 record while competing for Brazil’s Fury Fighting Championships. Facing veteran Ivan Salaverry in his Octagon debut, Palhares did not disappoint after he notched a first round armbar submission.

While the fight with Salaverry was not featured during the live portion of the PPV broadcast, the performance was still strong enough to spark some fans to suggest that Palhares could be an eventual challenger for current UFC middleweight champion Anderson Silva. Based on the UFC’s decision to match Palhares against former PRIDE middleweight and welterweight champion Dan Henderson in just his second UFC match during tonight’s UFC 88 event, it’s safe to say that the promotion things highly of him as well.

In spite of Palhares’ upside potential, there is relatively little know about him. We decided to touch base with him for an exclusive e-mail interivew that was translated by former UFC middleweight champion Murilo Bustamante.

Gary Ibarra: How old were you when you began training?

Rousimar Palhares: I started when I was 15 in Karate and then later started jiu-jitsu when I was 18.

Gary Ibarra: When did you know that this was something you wanted to pursue as a career?

Rousimar Palhares: When I watched UFC 3, I got crazy with that. It was at that moment that I realized what I wanted to do: to be an MMA fighter. I was 17 or 18 at the time.

Gary Ibarra: Was there a moment when you knew you were able to compete on a professional level?

Rousimar Palhares: When I started I could see I could be a professional. It became my dream after watching the UFC on video.

Gary Ibarra: According to your bio on the UFC’s website you used to work on a farm? How did you end up training Jiu Jitsu?

Rousimar Palhares: Yes, I worked all day on a farm. My family is really poor. Now we are doing a little better but every keeps working really hard there. When I trained in Karate, I arrived at an academy to train but the class was empty. Nobody showed up. Then I jumped inside the jiu-jitsu class, which was inside of the same academy.

Gary Ibarra: The bio on the UFC’s website is really short and it doesn’t shed much light on you as a fighter or how you came to where you are in your career now, was that intentional?

Rousimar Palhares: No, I just answer the question in my own way.

Gary Ibarra: Can you take me through a typical day of training for you before a fight?

Rousimar Palhares: I wake up every day at 7 a.m. At that time I study or I run. After that I have breakfast, then go to the Brazilian Top Team Academy to train at around 10 a.m. By 1 or 2 p.m. I am finished and then go have lunch. I start my second training session of the day around 6 p.m. and I train until 8 p.m. There are times where I train three times a day, but not often. I train jiu-jitsu, wrestling, boxing, and a little bit of Muay Thai. I end up going to bed around 10 p.m. every night. I do this routine Monday through Saturday and on Sunday, I rest.

Gary Ibarra: Are you doing anything different in your training for this fight since Dan Henderson has said he intends to try and keep the fight standing up?

Rousimar Palhares: No, everything is the same (for this fight).

Gary Ibarra: Henderson seems to think that all you have is submissions, he also said “I see myself knocking him out, I am not going to lose” A lot of statements like these can been disregarded as an attempt to hype an upcoming fight but how do you feel when you hear a statement like that from an opponent?

Rousimar Palhares: I think he can say whatever he wants. The fight will be decided inside of the Octagon.

Gary Ibarra: Dan Henderson has beat fellow Brazilian fighters such as Wanderlei Silva, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Renzo Gracie, as well as the man who’s translating this to you, Murilo Bustamante, is there any measure of revenge your looking to exact?

Rousimar Palhares: No, I am just doing my job. Of course he is between me and my dream; which is a title shot.

Gary Ibarra: Dan Henderson is 37 years old, almost 38, he’s coming off a loss to Anderson Silva that was preceded by a loss to Quinton “Rampage” Jackson, some people would see all these things as the signs of a fighter who’s prime of their career is ending, does that have any effect on your confidence coming into this fight? and do you think he’ll be coming out in this fight trying to prove he’s still a capable fighter?

Rousimar Palhares: No, the fact that he’s coming off losses doesn’t change anything for me. My confidence is the same, which is really good. I think he knows his situation right now and maybe it will make him want to prove that he is the same fighter as he was before.

Gary Ibarra: The UFC recently announced its going to be adding the fighters in the light heavyweight and middleweight divisions of the WEC to their stable of available fighters, there Is there anyone in the UFC or WEC that you would want to fight especially?

Rousimar Palhares: No, I just want to fight whoever is between me and the belt.

Gary Ibarra: What would a win against one of the best, most well known fighters in the UFC’s history do for you and your career?

Rousimar Palhares: It would be a very important step in my career because it takes me closer to a title shot.

Editor’s Note: In addition to being a contributor for FiveOuncesOfPain.com, Garry Ibarra is also the owner of his own MMA clothing line, Graffight Apparel. Graffight has established sponsor-based relationships with several fighters. You can click here to access the list.

Riggs found himself at a crossroads after requesting and being granted his release from Zuffa almost two years ago. In that time he and his wife experienced the birth of their first child and Riggs found a new home with the San Jose-based Strikeforce promotion.

However, nothing is ever easy when it comes to the life of Joe Riggs. While competing for Strikeforce in June and matched up against a relative unknown in Cory Devela, Riggs’ troublesome back gave out and he was forced to submit just 1:22 into the first round. Then in June, he was slated to fight Luke Stewart on the Strikeforce show that was headlined by Josh Thomson winning the lightweight title from Gilbert Melendez.

However, the match with Stewart never happened because Riggs disclosed on his licensing form with the California State Athletic Commission that he had taken a non-narcotic pain-killer in order to cope with back soreness. After taking a tuneup fight in July for the Rage in the Cage promotion, Riggs is set to return to the spotlight on Sept. 20 during Strikeforce’s second-annual event at the Playboy Mansion, where he will meet top-ten middleweight Kazuo Misaki.

Riggs took time out of his training scheduled to speak exclusively with FiveOuncesOfPain.com to address reports he has his sights set on returning to the UFC; how his camp reacted to those reports; whether he still plans to drop to 170 if he’s able to beat Misaki; his thoughts on the California State Athletic Commission’s decision to deny him a license to fight Stewart in June; whether fighters should be allowed to use pain-killers prior to fights; and more.

Sam Caplan: You’re a guy that has experienced a lot of highs and lows in your career and in your life. How are things going for you these days?

Joe Riggs: They are going good. My family is wonderful. My son is one years old now and getting older. Things are going good. If my family life is good, then everything goes good with it.

Sam Caplan: The last time you were supposed to fight for Strikeforce was in June but you were denied a license by CSAC because you disclosed you took a painkiller for your back. I know you could get yourself in trouble if you speak out, but nothing is going to change if people keep quiet. What is your overall assessment of how CSAC operates?

Joe Riggs: They denied me because I took a medication called Tramadol; that’s a non-narcotic pain medication. I used to have problems with pain medicine so my doctor prescribed me Tramadol. And it doesn’t cloud your mind and it’s not addictive. When you’re cutting weight and you’re banged up for a fight, it’s the same thing as taking Ibprofien. So I took that instead of Ibprofien, because it’s a blood thinner. So I took that and it was actually four days before that I disclosed it and told them what the deal was and they cut the stream on my fight. It was bulls—. They like having that power and they use it.

Sam Caplan: I wanted to ask you about painkillers. In the NFL, guys are getting shot up in the locker room right before a game and nobody cares. It’s accepted because their sport is their livelihood. But it’s no different in fighting because a professional fighter doesn’t get paid if he doesn’t fight. If a guy trains for three months and gets injured the last week, do you feel he should be allowed to receive pain relief under a doctor’s supervision?

Joe Riggs: Some people can. The only problem with it is that it is highly addictive and some people ignore that and just go along for the ride. The fact of the matter is that is that it is highly addictive. If you can take it and have it doctor-prescribed then more power to you, but some people can’t handle that.

Sam Caplan: But do you feel the commission should be more lenient if a fighter is under doctor supervision?

Joe Riggs: You shouldn’t be allowed to take a bunch of Oxycontin and go out there and fight. That’s just not allowed. That’s for the fighters and everyone understands where they’re coming from with that. But when a person takes Tramadol, they’ve got to understand — like they said to me, “You’ve got to make a decision; you have to either be a professional fighter or take your pain pills.” That’s what [a commission official] said to me and I was like “Holy crap, I can’t believe you said that.” Because it goes hand-in-hand. You can’t abuse your body and not be in a lot of pain. It’s hard enough as it is because I don’t take narcotics when a lot of times I do need it. I’m the kind of person with an addictive personality and I don’t want to get addicted to it. It’s a hard thing.

Sam Caplan: This is the second consecutive year you’ll be fighting on the Playboy show. You beat Eugene Jackson, so obviously is wasn’t a bad experience. But was fighting in that environment a good or bad experience for you?

Joe Riggs: Ah, you know, it’s cool being somewhere not too many people get access to; that part is cool. But it’s not an ideal fighting environment. The people there are not knowledgeable fans. They’re just there to be at the Playboy Mansion to drink and see the girls. They’re not really watching the fights, to be honest with you. It’s just people talking and drinking alcohol. So it’s weird. They’re not really respectful of the beauty of the sport. There are some fans there like Joe Rogan but there are some people there that just don’t give a s— about the sport. They’re just there to be at the Mansion.

Sam Caplan: You recently said in an interview with TAGG Radio with George Garcia and Frank Trigg that your goal is to get back into the UFC. Are you unhappy with Strikeforce?

Joe Riggs: I was mis-quoted there. It’s not my goal. I was not fired from the UFC; I asked for my release and they gave it to me. I left on my own regard. And the whole point is that I am not unhappy with Strikeforce. They do very well and they’ve treat me good. The whole point is that the UFC is the big show and you do get the bigger sponsor dollars and that’s probably where I’ll end up. But you never know. If I’m coming off two big wins with one over Misaki and what not and I just want to make sure I am carrying as much weight as possible when it comes time to negotiate my next contract.

Sam Caplan: When that quote went public, did Strikeforce contact you about it?

Joe Riggs: Yeah, they did. My agent, Ken Pavia, contacted me and said “Dude, you’re killing me!? What’s wrong!? Why are you doing that!?” And I was mis-quoted and I am sure (Strikeforce President) Scott Coker got mad because that is a disrespectful thing to say but the fact of the matter is that I didn’t mean for it to come off like that. My goal is to be the best in world and fight to my utmost potential. And wherever that may be, I just want to fight on the biggest stage possible.

Sam Caplan: How many fights do you have left on your Strikeforce deal?

Joe Riggs: Two more. I have one with this fight (vs. Misaki) and one more after this.

Sam Caplan: Did they give you any idea who your opponent might be on the last fight of your contract?

Joe Riggs: They did mention Cung Le, but who knows?

Sam Caplan: I believe you mentioned in that same TAGG Radio interview that you are thinking of cutting back to 170 after this fight. Is that still the plan, and why the change in weight again?

Joe Riggs: This is definitely my last fight at 185. But you know, I just remembered that they were talking about Cung Le as a fight at 185 but that’s probably not going to happen. But I would like to fight Luke Stewart. We were going to fight and that kind of got cut short but I’d still like to fight Luke Stewart.

Sam Caplan: And you’d fight Stewart at 170 lbs.?

Joe Riggs: Yeah.

Sam Caplan: In talking about the UFC and your agent, Ken Pavia, has he gotten in touch with the UFC? Has he put any feelers out to see if the interest in a return is mutual in you possibly fighting for them in the future?

Joe Riggs: Yeah, sure. You know, every fight I had in the UFC was an exciting fight so I’m sure they’d want me back.

Sam Caplan: The UFC is where most fighters want to go. But doesn’t there need to be multiple viable fight companies in this sport as opposed to just one in order to make sure that fighters have leverage when it comes to negotiating contracts?

Joe Riggs: That’s a big thing. And that’s why I am hoping Affliction does well and Strikeforce does and EliteXC; it creates a bidding war for the fighters. The UFC can’t have a monopoly. It just can’t happen.

Sam Caplan: If an offer does come in from the UFC and it’s a decent offer but not a great offer, does it ever factor into a fighter’s mind that they might be better off fighting for another organization in order to bring some balance to the sport?

Joe Riggs: Yeah, you know it does. But you at the end of the day you have to support you and your family. That’s the whole reason why I am in this. And the thing with the UFC is that you can take a couple dollars less but they offer the bonuses. When I fought for them a couple of times I had submission of the night and the bonus was over $20,000 grand. And now they’re getting like $75,000. That’s a huge plus.

Sam Caplan: Styles wise, how do you feel you match up with Kazuo Misaki?

Joe Riggs: Good. He has a style where he likes to counter-fight and he likes to rely on his speed but he’s not faster than me. I think he’s a great fighter; he’s very athletic and a good counter-defense. It’s a good fight and I can’t wait.

Sam Caplan: You mentioned you’d like to go back to 170 and fight Luke Stewart. But Misaki is considered a top ten middleweight by a lot of people. If you beat him, why not try to parlay that at 185?

Joe Riggs: I think that beating Misaki and dropping down to 170 brings more weight with me. It used to be a hard cut for me to 170 when I first started doing it but over the years I stopped lifting weights and my body just naturally dropped down and it just makes the most sense for me to fight at 170. It’s actually not going to be that hard of a cut.

Sam Caplan: What do you think of Cung Le? Is he the real deal?

Joe Riggs: Yeah, he’s tough. Cung Le has got really good wrestling and his standup is really good. I’m not sure about his jiu-jitsu game but nobody has really been able to take him down so he’s been doing a great job. I think Cung Le is an amazing fighter. He beat Frank Shamrock and Frank is a tough guy so he’s a star.

Sam Caplan: If you you get past Misaki and they put a strong offer on the table for you to fight Cung Le on a big show would you do one more fight at 185 and fight Cung Le?

Joe Riggs: Yeah, if the money was right and it was a big show, I definitely would.

But times care changing, thanks in large part to World Extreme Cagefighting, which has helped expose many U.S. fans to the tremendous talent that exists in the smaller weight classes. And thanks in large part to the exploits of WEC bantamweight king Miguel Torres, the interest in the 135 lbs. division in this country has never been greater.

Torres currently sits at the top of what many consider to be a deep and healthy bantamweight division in the WEC which has experienced improved depth recently with the return of Rani Yayha as well as former WEC featherweight title challenger Jeff Curran’s decision to move down in weight.

The depth in the division has also increased thanks in large part to the development of 6-0 bantamweight prospect Brian Bowles, who improved his record in the WEC to 3-0 following an impressive first round submission over Damacio Page at WEC 35 earlier this month.

The fight, which was televised on VERSUS on a tape delay basis, was Bowles’ highest-profile victory to date and it served as a strong indication that it’s only a matter of time before he’s granted a shot at the WEC bantamweight title currently held by Torres.

In an attempt to learn more about the 28-year old up-and-comer, FiveOuncesOfPain.com recently caught up with Bowles for an exclusive one-on-one interview in which he discussed his possible return to the cage; his thoughts on Curran moving down to 135 lbs. and whether he’d welcome a match with him; how far he feels he is from a title shot; and more!

Sam Caplan: I first wanted to ask about how you first got started in MMA and how you were discovered by the WEC?

Brian Bowles: I got started when one of my friends found the Hardcore Gym and started training there. He told me about it and said he was having fun doing it and that I should come and join. I joined it and I loved it. Rory (Singer) had some connections from when he was on the reality show (second season of “The Ultimate Fighter) and just called the WEC and asked them to give me a chance and they gave me a chance. So far, it’s working out.

Sam Caplan: You’re training out of the Hardcore Gym in Atlanta with Adam and Rory Singer, which is where Forrest Griffin used to train. In addition to the Singers, who else do you work with at the gym?

Brian Bowles: At my gym, I train a lot with Stephen Ledbetter. He fought Jeff Curran. I (also) train with Jeff Bedard, Rafael Assuncao, Chad Shafer, Yayo, Junior (Assuncao) — just a lot of guys who aren’t members of the Hardcore Gym but we still get together at different gyms and train together.

Sam Caplan: It’s interesting that you bring up Ledbetter and the fact that he fought Curran. Curran recently announced he’s dropping from featherweight to bantamweight. What are you thoughts on that?

Brian Bowles: It doesn’t really matter to me either way. He’s a great fighter and I welcome the challenge. Whoever, whenever. I don’t really care.

Sam Caplan: You’re undefeated in the WEC at this point. Do you feel like you’ve been challenged?

Brian Bowles: I feel like all of my fights have been challenges. They have all been good opponents. Some of them I’ve just been lucky enough to catch and get the victory.

Sam Caplan: You were able to finish Damacio Page at just 3:30 of round 1 during WEC 35 earlier this month. Myself and a lot of people expected the fight to be a back-and-forth battle but you ended it quick. Were even you surprised how soon it ended?

Brian Bowles: Yeah, I really thought the fight was going to be able to get out of the first round. I felt it was going to be back-and-forth but you make one mistake and you give someone your neck and I’ll level it and it will all be over.

Sam Caplan: WEC bantamweight champion Miguel Torres says he’ll next be defending his title in Dec. Have you gotten any indication as to whether you’re under consideration for the title shot?

Brian Bowles: At first I was told that I was going to be fighting in February and here recently I was told December. They’re saying it’s not going to be Miguel and that they want me to get another victory and then possibly fight Miguel after that.

Sam Caplan: Do you think a fight against Curran is a possibility?

Brian Bowles: It’s a possibility but I have no idea who they’ve even offered. As far as I know I haven’t heard anything yet.

Sam Caplan: Who are some other fighters at 135 that you have a strong interest in fighting?

Brian Bowles: I don’t really care who I fight but I think it’s probably going to be Will Ribeiro; he’s the one who beat Chase Beebe (at WEC 34 on June 1). I’m thinking that’s who is going to be my next opponent. But I don’t really care who it is.

Sam Caplan: Who do you consider to be the top five fighters at 135 lbs. in the WEC?

Brian Bowles: Obviously, Miguel Torres. I think I am. Rani Yayha is one. Dominic Cruz is one. And Will Ribeiro. That would be my top five.

Sam Caplan: Is there anything you’d like to add in closing?

Brian Bowles: I’d like to thank a few sponsors, if possible. I’d like to thank Red Carpet VIP, Paramount Supplements, Skin Industries, H-Side MMA, Party Cove USA, and Mamouth Industries. And I’d like to thank Paul Creighton for helping me with my grappling and the guillotine that I got the win with.

One of those fighters is none other than 8-0 WEC lightweight sensation Donald “Cowboy” Cerrone, who is quickly converging on lightweight title contender status following two victories in his first two fights with the promotion.

One of the wins was ruled a no contest by the Nevada State Athletic Commission after Cerrone tested positive for a banned diuretic. Following the positive test, NSAC suspended the 25-year old. However, he returned with a vengance this past June, submitting Danny Castillo with an armbar at 1:30 of round 1 during WEC 34.

Now Cerrone is just weeks out from the biggest fight of his career; a showdown at WEC 36 on Sept. 10 in Hollywood, Fla. with former WEC lightweight champion “Razor” Rob McCullough. Despite being in the midst of final preparations for the fight, Cerrone still made time for an exclusive interview with FiveOuncesOfPain.com in which he revealed that the winner of the fight between he and McCullough will be granted a title shot against current champion Jamie Varner in December.

During the one-on-one conversation, Cerrone also addressed his suspension for the banned diuretic; why he decided to get involved with MMA after a strong kickboxing career; what his experience was like being featured on the VERSUS reality TapouT show; whether he was ever considered for “The Ultimate Fighter,” and more.

Sam Caplan: As we do this interview I am talking to you while you’re in Colorado. Can you talk about which camp you’re training with for this fight and who you are training with?

Donald Cerrone: Yeah, I am up here in Vail, Colorado. I brought about 12 guys from (Greg) Jackson’s up here at Inyodo Martial Arts up in Vail. I brought about 12 guys and then have guys up here like Duane Ludwig; my Brazilian instructor has come up from Brazil; and we’ve got a couple of guys from England. So we kind of transplated our camp up here in Vale for the last couple of weeks at 10,000 feet.

Sam Caplan: Did you go out to Vale just for the altitude or did you go because maybe there aren’t a lot of guys getting ready for fights right now at Greg Jackson’s?

Donald Cerrone: Oh yeah, it has to do with the altitude. And the last couple of weeks (before a fight) are always hard and I think just to improve my focus I come up here. It’s just kind of peaceful during the last week of cutting and it just kind of gets my mind right. That’s one of the main reasons why I come up here.

Sam Caplan: You mentioned weight cutting and I wanted to ask you about the suspension you received following WEC 30 when you tested positive for a diuretic. Can you discuss your motivations behind using it?

Donald Cerrone: I didn’t take it to cut the weight, which was the problem. I took it because I had a really bad staph infection and I took it to clean out my system to get rid of the medications I had been on. The medications I was using to treat the condition made me feel worse than the staph infection did. The weight cutting is never a problem for me so a lot of people are misled by thinking that.

Sam Caplan: Can you talk a little more about staph, which has become pretty common in a lot of gyms. It’s almost an epidemic it seems. I assume you picked it up from training with someone?

Donald Cerrone: Yeah, I either picked it up here in Colorado or down at Greg’s. I had it really bad. I had it in my armpit and in the pit in the back of my legs, my arm, and down my leg. It was bad, man. It was in my bloodstream and I was in the hospital a couple of days right before the fight. The medication they gave me made me feel like crap so I had the diuretic to help me get cleaned out. The weight was no problem and I popped a 25mg pill, which was next to nothing but it is what it is. The suspension was good for me. It helped me work on a lot of things I needed to work on.

Sam Caplan: I train to and most of the people I train with have good hygiene. But every now and then I will train with a someone who obviously hasn’t showered and really smells. How do you handle a situation like that?

Donald Cerrone: I really don’t run into that problem too much. Usually the guys that I roll with are pretty clean. They don’t really stink or are dirty like that.

Sam Caplan: The WEC is building up their 155 lbs. division and they recently added former IFL fighter Bart Palaszewski to the roster. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with him, but I wanted to know if I could get your thoughts on him?

Donald Cerrone: I’m not really familiar with that guy. I just never really paid attention to the IFL much so I don’t really know much about that guy. I really don’t know about most opponents because I don’t follow the sport too much. I just worry about my own thing, if that makes any sense?

Sam Caplan: If you’re not a fan, what was the driving force for you getting involved in MMA as a competitor?

Donald Cerrone: Aw man, to be honest with you, the money. I was doing kickboxing and I kept winning fights and eventually Sven Bean (promoter for Ring of Fire) offered me a great deal of money to take a fight and so that’s what I did.

Sam Caplan: When you were first approached about it though, what was your outlook on MMA?

Donald Cerrone: I had never really gotten into it all but I remember coming from a kickboxing background and I was like “I doubt I’ll submit anybody. I’ll just keep knocking people out.” And then I got into the whole jiu-jitsu thing and now I’ve been pulling off submissions and I’ve kind of reversed roles (laughs).

Sam Caplan: You mentioned that you don’t keep up with opponents. Is MMA strictly business for you? I mean, if you’re at home and a fight is on TV do you just flip through the channels or is it something you might stop and watch?

Donald Cerrone: It’s kind of strictly business. I’ll watch if there’s an opponent of mine I might have to fight that I know is going to be on there, or a friend of mine. I have a lot of friends now in MMA so I pay a lot of attention to what they’re doing. But I try not to make it my whole life because then it just drags me down. You know, that’s all I eat, sleep, and drink. I’ve got to keep my mind clear on other things.

Sam Caplan: There’s been a lot of speculation about changes to the WEC and some merging of weight classes. I’ve heard some reports that suggest that the WEC lightweight division won’t be effected and I’ve heard other reports that it could be merged with the UFC’s 155 lbs. division? If the lightweight divisions of the WEC and UFC were merged, would you have a problem with that?

Donald Cerrone: Aw man, I’d be excited for that bro. Whoever they want me to fight, whenever. I’m game for whatever. That would’t effect me at all. If it stays, it stays. If it goes, it goes.

Sam Caplan: Dan Lauzon was featured on VERSUS’ TapouT reality TV show and his brother, Joe Lauzon, was none too pleased how they edited the show. You were also featured on TapouT. How would you describe your experience with the show?

Donald Cerrone: I love those guys. They did a lot for me and they still do a lot for me. They’ve done two shows with me, including a “Where are they now” program. It was a lot of fun and I’ve got nothing but love for them. I thought they captured who I was well. I didn’t see the episode with Lauzon so I can’t be critical about it.

Sam Caplan: Speaking of reality television, I wanted to ask you about “The Ultimate Fighter.” It seems like prior to making it to the big time with the WEC you had the perfect profile for TUF. Were you ever approached about the show or did you ever try out?

Donald Cerrone: Yeah, I was approached a couple of times about the show. And man, I just don’t know what happened (laughs). I’m not too sure but one time I was going to go for it and another time I wasn’t. I train with a lot of guys like Rashad (Evans) and Keith (Jardine) who have done the show and there’s pros and cons; they lock you down in that contract and I don’t know if I’m prepared to get locked in a contract like that, you know? They kind of own you, if that makes any sense?

Sam Caplan: Yes, it does. It’s like you’re locked in at a mid-level rate for 9-12 fights.

Donald Cerrone: Exactly.

Sam Caplan: So what’s your contract situation with the WEC right now?

Donald Cerrone: Right now I believe I have four fights left.

Sam Caplan: Is it non-exclusive? Because sometimes I’ll see guys fight in the WEC and then if they don’t get a fight in three or four months they will fight in a smaller promotion before coming back. Is that an option you have?

Donald Cerrone: No. I’m exclusive with the WEC.

Sam Caplan: I wanted to ask you about your next fight on Sept. 10 at WEC 36 against “Razor” Rob McCullough. Have they told you whether you’ll receive a lightweight title shot at Jamie Varner if you win that fight?

Donald Cerrone: Yeah, they have. It’s for the number one spot to go after Varner in Decemer. But as far as Rob, I’m really excited. He’s a world class striker. Everyone kind of forgot that I am a kickboxer so I’m going to go out and show what I can do. In the end I will look for a submission but I’m ready to go out and stand and bang, man.

Sam Caplan: Have you seen some of McCullough’s recent performances?

Donald Cerrone: Yeah, I have. I’ve watched his last several fights.

Sam Caplan: Since losing the title to Varner he hasn’t looked the same. He came back and fought Ken Alexander and seemed real tentative. What did you think of his performance in that fight?

Donald Cerrone: It kind of felt like he was a little gun-shy but some people just have an off day so I can’t really judge my training on that. I’ve been judging my training on his past fights with his kickboxing and how he used to fight. I’m ready for him to come out strong and for him to stay strong, which is what I am looking forward to.

Sam Caplan: What do you think of Varner as a champion? When you see him fight, do you see a lot of weaknesses?

Donald Cerrone: I wouldn’t say weaknesses. Everyone has got weaknesses. But I see some holes in his game that could be worked on and I’m excited to see Jamie Varner and that’s an option I am looking forward to as well in the near future.

Sam Caplan: If you beat McCullough and get the title shot, have they told you much about when and where it will take place? I know you mentioned December as a possibility.

Donald Cerrone: There are talks that they could be coming to Denver, Colorado so that would be totally awesome if we could figure something like that out. But officially, I don’t know where it’s going to be right now.

Sam Caplan: Did they tell you when they might come to Denver?

Donald Cerrone: For the December card, I think. But it’s just talk. There was talk that maybe they would come here for this one but they couldn’t get it arranged in time.

I am a writer but I am also a fan and I can remember watching UFC 40 in 2002 when Tito Ortiz pummeled Shamrock in their first-ever meeting. I hated Ortiz for doing that to my hero. Was it irrational anger? Absolutely. But I was a Shamrock fan and Ortiz had just beaten my guy. Unfortunately, it wouldn’t be the the last time he’d take a beating at the hands of Ortiz.

The losses to Ortiz made it easy to forget that Shamrock was both the first-ever King of Pancrase and the UFC’s first-ever Superfight champion. But the simple truth of the matter is he’s far removed from the time in which he known as the “World’s Most Dangerous Man.”

While nostalgia is fun, the reality is that the 44-year old Shamrock is 0-5 in his last fight bouts and hasn’t won since 2004. His career looked to have hit rock bottom following a first round knockout against heavyweight journeyman Robert “Buzz” Berry this past March during a Cage Rage event. It was a fight set up for Shamrock to win and in losing, it appeared he was all but done.

Flash forward to the present and Shamrock has been handed a golden opportunity to set to things right. Scheduled to face Kimbo Slice in the main event of EliteXC and CBS’ third installment of “Saturday Night Fights” on Oct. 4, Shamrock finds himself with one last shot at redemption.

With just six weeks until the fight, Shamrock took time to speak with FiveOuncesOfPain.com in an exclusive interview where he discussed the loss to Berry; his thoughts on Slice; his response to comments made by the camp of Brett Rogers; how long he plans to continue fighting; the status of his long-standing feud with adoptive brother Frank Shamrock; and more.

Sam Caplan: A lot of people were disappointed in the nature in which you lost to Robert “Buzz” Berry in March. Is there anything you can point to that caused that performance?

Ken Shamrock: Well I don’t think anyone was more disappointed than myself. A lot of things would have happened for me after that fight and I wanted that fight badly but unfortunately things didn’t work out for me. I had some real bad sickness, an illness. I came back to the States and I was sick for three weeks after but prior to that fight I had lost almost 20 pounds. From the time between leaving the States to when I was over in England, I was in bed trying to recover. Prior to weighing in I had put in two bags of fluid in me and I still only weighed 212.

So I was in pretty bad shape but because of the committment that I have to my sport, I just couldn’t step back and say “no,” which I probably should have looking back on it. But I didn’t, because I had the drive and I have this thing that I can overcome anything. And that’s been my downfall throughout my years and my career is that I don’t know when to say when.

Sam Caplan: You mentioned a lot of things could have happened for you had you won that bout. What were those things?

Ken Shamrock: It was a lot of financial opportunities that I had and I don’t want to go into that because those were my business opportunities. There’s a lot of different fights I could have had off of that with a win over Buzz Berry. It was just basically a fight I was supposed to step in and win. It was a setup fight for me and I didn’t go in and get the job done and a lot of things went by the wayside.

So I am very fortunate to get this opportunity to step in a fight Kimbo and I won’t make that mistake twice. I am going in and going in to win the fight — just like I did vs. Buzz Berry, but unfortunately things didn’t work out for me. But you know what? That’s just the way things work, you know? You go in and in this business you don’t always win. Anything can happen. It happened to me and I’ve just got to go out there and suck it up and this time get the job done.

Sam Caplan: After the fight you were released by ProElite. What did they tell you were the reasons why they were cutting your contract after one fight?

Ken Shamrock: I didn’t pay too much attention to what was said or what was done. Hell, it was a bad show for me. Even though I was sick and things didn’t work out for me, I still didn’t go out there and perform. It wasn’t the Ken Shamrock that got into this business. I’ve had a broken leg and I still competed. I went out there and tried to compete to the best of my ability — part of that though I didn’t think was my fault. Even though I did get clipped with a punch and I went down, I was nowhere even close to being out of that fight.

I went down and I was clipped and I wasn’t in the best of shape; I was sick and had lost weight and wasn’t in the best of shape; and had just basically tried to make sure I positioned myself in a place to win. But when I was clipped and had went down, I was waiting for him to get on top of me to where I could actually try and do some submissions, which is where I know he was weak at. But they stopped the fight before he ever came and touched me. I’m not saying it’s a bad stop but this is MMA and you’ve got to allow someone to finish a fight. This is not boxing where you get a 10 count or a knockdown rule. If I was laying flat on my back with my arms down on my side and I was unconscious, then I could see him stopping it but when you’ve got a guy that’s still alive and still squirming then you’ve got to allow the fight to continue; this is MMA.

So a lot of things happened in that fight. I wasn’t necessarily in the best of shape and in the best of health but at the same time I still want to go out and compete and I don’t believe I got that opportunity.

Sam Caplan: Your son, Ryan Shamrock, also appeared on the same show. He fought well but lost and hasn’t fought for ProElite since. Is he still under contract?

Ken Shamrock: Well, he broke his hand about 30 seconds into the first round. He then continued on and finished the round and a lot of us thought he won that round. But the cornerman saw his hand and took a look at it and it was a boxer fracture. He came back to the States and they put a cast on it for about eight weeks and then he took the cast off and went back to training and then he re-broke it again. That’s the reason he hasn’t been back fighting; the hand hasn’t healed up 100 percent yet.

Sam Caplan: Any chance we’ll get to see him on the undercard on Oct. 4?

Ken Shamrock: I don’t know. Right now we’re still trying to get his hand where he can punch with it full go. He’s grappling — he’s okay to grapple with it right now, but we’re still working with his punching. I want to make sure we don’t push him too fast. He’s still young and has got a bright future ahead of him. I don’t want to put him out there and have him re-break the thing again and continue to have a broken hand everytime he gets into a fight.

Sam Caplan: At what point did EliteXC contact you about fighting Kimbo on Oct. 4 and were you surprised they came back to you after cutting your contract?

Ken Shamrock: Like I said, I don’t recall what the contract things were. I kind of just cut myself off from all that. I let my agents handle all of that and so I don’t know what was done. I know there was talk about them not wanting to obligate the contract. So when they did come back to me and they did say that this fight (was available), I jumped at it. It’s a great opportunity for me to step in there and get right back in the mix of things and Kimbo Slice is basically gift wrapped for me. And I ain’t going to let this one get by me.

Sam Caplan: How long ago did they present this opportunity to you?

Ken Shamrock: It was short notice. I found out about this about a week ago. So it hasn’t been a lot for me to prepare for this but I’ll be ready. When this fight comes around, as much as I want this and the determination I have because of some of the things that have happened to me in the past, I want this bad and it’s going to show in the cage.

Sam Caplan: You’ve been quoted in the past as saying that Kimbo simply isn’t ready to be in the spot he’s in right now. What areas do you feel specifically that he’s lacking in?

Ken Shamrock: I just think that Kimbo in the future could be a great fighter. He’s got the look and obviously he’s got the marketability but skill-wise he really hasn’t gotten an opportunity to settle in and develop on his skills. He throws a big right hand and he’s got big punches but his cardio isn’t there and his positioning and his ground skills aren’t there. So there’s a lot of things he needs to improve in. He’s been pushed into the spotlight way too fast.

Sam Caplan: You’re one of the pioneers of this sport and a big reason why it is where it is today. I’m not alone in saying this, but you were the first fighter I became a true fan of and there are a lot of people that will read this that can say the same thing too. Do you feel that Kimbo Slice is good or bad for this sport?

Ken Shamrock: No, he’s good. I think that as far as being a face and what people look at as an MMA fighter, he’s not there yet. But as far as marketability and being mainstream and people look at him and go “wow!” He’s great marketing for our sport. But he’s not the image of an MMA fighter — not yet. Soon I think he will be but right at this point in time he’s not there. But like I said, I think he’s good for the sport because he crosses over from the mainstream — just as I did — into the MMA world. I think that he’s going to bring those people that haven’t watched MMA and they’re gonna watch it just because of the way he looks.

Sam Caplan: You have a history with Kimbo’s trainer, Bas Rutten. Prior to the Tank Abbott vs. Kimbo fight, in the week leading up to the fight Tank made a remark to the media that Kimbo’s biggest weakness was on the ground and that Bas wasn’t the guy you wanted to learn the ground game from. You’re a guy that has not only submitted Bas Rutten but you’re someone who is a trainer in addition to being a fighter. Do you think Kimbo and Bas are a good fit for each other?

Ken Shamrock: Absolutely, because Bas made his bones in kickboxing in Holland. He was a very big kickboxer and at one time he was ranked before he came into the Pancrase organization, which was a mixed martial arts organization in Japan. So Bas’ roots are from striking so he’s going to be able to help Kimbo control his punches, keep his spacing, don’t get too crowded and be able to try and stay on his feet. But at the same time, Bas already knows all of the escapes. He knows how to escape a leg lock. He knows all of the defenses to them and he knows how to keep people out of trouble.

So I think it’s a good match, him and Bas because Bas knows me inside and out. He knows what I’m going to do. So if anybody could be in his corner that would do him any good at all, it would be Bas Rutten. But you just can’t teach someone to fly in that short of a time. If you give him some time, maybe he’ll be able to get in there and do all of this stuff but not in this short of time.

Sam Caplan: I recent saw a poll on the website for the Wrestling Observer where about 54% of the respondents are picking Kimbo to win while 46% are picking you. After watching you in the Berry fight, some people feel you don’t have a shot to make it past the first two minutes. What’s going to change from you for this fight in comparison to the Berry fight?

Ken Shamrock: Well again, I don’t want to beat a dead horse, man. I’ve already explained what happened in the Buzz Berry fight. It just doesn’t do any good to keep going over it. The bottom line is that it’s still an excuse. No matter how many ways you flip it, it’s still an excuse. I want to go into this fight and after the fight is over I’ll be able to say “Hey, it’s not an excuse anymore. It was a reality.”

Sam Caplan: But are you planning anything different from a training perspective and working on new techniques or will you approach things differently from a tactical situation?

Ken Shamrock: I felt I had a good plan for when I fought Buzz Berry. Anytime you go in there having some problems you kind of lose focus on what you need to go in and do and that’s what happened with me; I lost focus on what I needed to do. So I expect to keep my mind focus and my strength where it needs to be and stick to my gameplan. I know what I’m going to do.

Sam Caplan: A win over Kimbo on CBS would open up a lot of other opportunities for you. At age 44, how much longer do you intend to compete though?

Ken Shamrock: As long as my body and my mind will allow me to. As long as the fans still want to see it. I think that every time I step into the ring, just like now, there’s always a buzz and it always seems to jack people off of their seats. So hey, I guess I’ve been blessed. I don’t know what it is but I love to fight and I love to get in the ring and I want to be healthy for once. That’s obviously not going to happen completely but at least enough to where I can go in and just let it go. I’ve been fortunate and right now with all the buzz and all the pop in MMA over this fight. You know, there’s still an interest and I’m still interested in fighting. The fans are still interested in seeing me fight so I am just going to keep bringing it.

Sam Caplan: You’ve had such a historic career; literally a Hall of Fame career. A fighter never wants to consider the idea of losing, but if you aren’t able to get past Kimbo on Oct. 4, could Oct. 4 be the last time Ken Shamrock fans get to you see compete?

Ken Shamrock: I will never, ever make that statement prior to a fight.

Sam Caplan: The manager for Brett Rogers, Mike Reilly, released a statement to Five Ounces of Pain earlier in which he said you in jest that were 103-years old and your ego usurped Rogers’ shot at Kimbo. At one point he said you butted in line. How do you respond to that accusation and if you win, do you have any interest in a fight with Rogers?

Ken Shamrock: First of all, you’re talking about a guy standing outside of the ring and is training somebody and creating this problem. He has no idea what went on behind the scenes. And he does know the time I’ve put into MMA and the other people that have paved the way for people like Brett Rogers to get in the ring and fight and have opportunities to fight people like Kimbo. I didn’t set this fight up! I didn’t go to them and ask for this fight! They came to me because they thought that this would be the best fight that would suit them in order to make a big bang in MMA. If he thinks that Brett Rogers can do the same sort of thing that I’m doing right now, they would have used him. I’m sorry if he feels that way. I’m sorry if he feels like I jumped in front of him. I didn’t plan it. I didn’t set it up. I just stepped in and took what they offered so if he’s pissed off at me, hey, stand in line.

Sam Caplan: If you beat Kimbo, is Rogers someone you’d be open to fighting?

Ken Shamrock: You know what? That’s just like asking me if I’m going to retire if I don’t win the fight. Those are questions I won’t even answer until after my fight.

Sam Caplan: Is talking about a potential fight vs. your adoptive brother Frank Shamrock something you’re willing to talk about in this interview?

Ken Shamrock: Well, obviously that’s one that’s already been set out there so it’s not like it hasn’t been talked about. That one has already been put into place so I believe it’s up to the organization and Frank to say yes. I’m already standing there waiting and saying “Yeah, you guys have talked about and you set it up and I said yes.”

Sam Caplan: Sometimes with Frank it’s hard to tell what’s for real and what’s for show. He’s gotten personal and has gone so far as to accuse you of using steroids. I’ve been at events where the two of you were at and it’s like you didn’t even exist to each other. First, can you respond to the steroid accusations, and second, what’s the relationship between the two of you behind-the-scenes?

Ken Shamrock: First of all, I’ve already made a statement about that and it’s the same thing as trying to kick a dead horse. You don’t need to keep talking about it. You make a statement and you put your thing out there and that’s that. As far as me and Frank go, when we end up in each other’s presence the best thing to do is probably not to say anything because me, personally, with the things that he’s done to my father, which was supposed to be his adoptive dad, if he was to say anything or get out of line, I’d probably punch him in the nose.

Sam Caplan: I realize the two of you are adopted but you were raised by the same father and you brought him into MMA. With Frank and his family not in your life, do you ever feel a void? I mean, you have kids and he has kids. Do they ever express an interest in interacting with each other? Is a reconciliation something you strive for in the future or is it something that doesn’t matter?

Ken Shamrock: Of course it’s something that… because my father is the one that was hurt the most out of this. He was the one who took Frank and he was the one who visited Frank all the time and took care of him and raised him and helped him out of trouble. He did all of those things for him and I was basically a peer counselor for a time and then I went away to college for a time so I wasn’t really there a whole bunch when he was around.

The only time that I was there was when he got out of prison and my dad asked me if I would take him in and let him stay at my house and that he was thinking of adopting him. And I said “Hey pop, if this is what you want then I’m all for it. But once you do it you can’t go back on it, this is it.” And so he got out and I took him and started him out and protected him and got him where he needed to be. And then he said, she said, or whatever, from what Frank said and from what my mom said and my father are saying are two different things.

The bottom line is that as long as he makes it up and gets it straight — my dad and him get it straight, between them two — I’m good.

Sam Caplan: Do you think he’s saying some of the things he’s said just to foster a feud that could lead to a big money match or do you think this is how he really feels?

Ken Shamrock: It’s hard to say with Frank because a lot of times when Frank says things it’s like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. One minute you’re getting the guy that’s shaking your hand (while he’s) smiling and talking to you and then you turn around and three days later you hear something on a website that he said about you. So it’s hard to know what he’s really thinking.

Sam Caplan: Do you feel like you guys were ever close at one point when things were going well?

Ken Shamrock: No. I think that I basically had brought Frank in and I put him through a tryout and I got him fights over in Japan and I basically protected him with certain kind of fighters that he was going to fight. And basically was just bringing him along to a point where I knew he was ready and I’d get him that big fight. He kept thinking I was just holding him back but in all honesty I was just making sure that whenever he made that jump to that next level that he was ready. And I did that with all of my fighters. Every single one of them, I always wanted to make sure they were ready and he just felt that he was being held back and this and that and I just said being a Shamrock and coming from of what I’ve accomplished and him coming out with the Shamrock name, people are gunning for him so he’s got to be ready so I just wanted to make sure he was really ready to get in and get it done.

Sam Caplan: But at one point did you ever feel a true closeness? Did he ever feel like a true brother to you?

Ken Shamrock: I’m not sure that we ever felt that. I think it was more through my dad. My dad really cared for him and loved him and because my dad had those feelings for him, I had those feelings for him. I just said “Whatever you need pop, I’ll do it.”

In this interview, which is translated by Planet Tatami’s André Filipe Cassimiro de Sousa, Silva discusses his recent suspension by the California State Athletic Commission for alleged steroid use, the decision by long-time American Top Team trainer Benkei to leave the fight camp, his thoughts on his most recent win over Justin Eilers, and more.

Planet Tatami: Sherdog.com has stated that you tested positive for steroids, do you have anything to declare about it? Will you try to appeal this situation? Please comment, if you can.

Antonio Silva: Yeah, that’s true. I was really surprised with this shocking news. But (those) who know me and stayed with me in these last three years know that I don’t use any kind of steroid and I’m totally against the use of them. A lot of fighters that use steroids are truly beasts inside of the ring but without it they became little kitties. I love fighting but at first place is my life and after my surgery I realized I couldn’t take anything like that. For now I’ll re-take all the exams that I need and surely it’s going to be a matter of time to show the fans and MMA supporters that it was just a misunderstanding.

Planet Tatami: How many fights do you still have in your contract with Elite?

Antonio Silva: I still have three fights under my contract with EliteXC.

Planet Tatami: Give your comments about the fight against Justin Eilers. How do you feel being the champion of EliteXC?

Antonio Silva: The fight went as me and my team had planned. I (put my all into my training) and did what my trainers asked me to do. I’m feeling very happy (and) feeling like my mission was acomplished.

Planet Tatami: In your opinion, who will be the winner between Frank Mir and Minotauro (Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira)? And what about Andrei Arlovski vs. Josh Barnett?

Antonio Silva: In my opinion Minotauro will be the winner. At this current point in time there is no fighter at the same level of Minotauro. And regarding Andrei vs. Barnett, it’s going to be a though fight for both fighters because they are world class athletes, but I’ll support Andrei.

Planet Tatami: When is your next fight for Elite? Is there any possibility for you to fight outside Elite?

Antonio Silva: It was scheduled to September 20th but the event was cancelled. Yes, I’m free to fight outside EliteXC; my contract gives me this right.

Planet Tatami: What was your reaction when Benkei left ATT?

Antonio Silva: Well, I’m sad because Benkei is an awesome physical trainer and he was like a father for all athletes but I have to respect the opinion of ATT headmasters. I’m quite sure we lost a great professional who would kill or die if it was necessary just to see an ATT fighter win. He carried the flag and logo of the gym with (great passion).

Planet Tatami: What would you like to say to your fans reading this?

Antonio Silva: Thanks for the opportunity and I ask all Brazilians to trust me, because I don’t need to use any prohibited substance in my body. Naturally I produce what I need. I’m a real champion (and) the belt is mine and it will be for a long time. If somebody wanna take it from me, he won’t do it by cheating me, making me look bad but he will have to put fighters to face me, to take it in the right way.

Brazil has the best MMA fighters around the world and it’s annoying a lot of people, but they will have to see for a long time names like Minotauro, Anderson Silva, Paulão Filho, Jorge Santiago, Pedro Rizzo and me, Antonio Silva. True champions.

Planet Tatami is the exclusive Brazilian MMA correspondent site for FiveOuncesOfPain.com and its translated English content appears on this site exclusively with Planet Tatami’s permission. For additional MMA content from Planet Tatami, please visit the site at: http://www.planettatami.com.br

As a part of our new agreement, select content from 5 Oz. will be appearing on Planet Tatami translated into Portuguese. In return, some of Planet Tatami’s Portuguese content will be translated into English and will appear on 5 Oz. of Pain.

The first article to appear on 5 Oz. from Planet Tatami is a quick interview with UFC newcomer Dan Hardy. We’ll have more from Planet Tatami in the future, but this is just a start.

Hardy is a native of Britain and will be making his UFC debut at UFC 89 on Oct. 18 at the National Indoor Arena in Birmingham, England in a welterweight fight against Akihiro Gono.

Hardy is an unknown to casual fans, but hardcore fans know him well from his outstanding performances while competing for the Japan-based Cage Force promotion. He is without question one of the top fight prospects in the UK and could emerge as the UFC’s second biggest British star next to Michael Bisping.

In order to get to know Hardy a little better, we’re proud to present this interview conducted by Planet Tatami’s Gabriel Maurer de Barros.

Planet Tatami: Is your fight against Akihiro Gono confirmed?

Dan Hardy: Yes it is

Planet Tatami: What is your expectation for it?

Dan Hardy: I’m expecting a tricky stand up fight with an exciting knockout finish and my hand raised at the end.

Planet Tatami: What will be your strategy for this fight?

Dan Hardy: It’s too early to say at the moment. I need to sit down with my coaches and talk through a gameplan. We will watch some of his fights and see how my skills match up with his and put a strategy together.

Planet Tatami: How many fights do you have in the contract with the UFC?

Dan Hardy: My contract is a four fight deal.

Planet Tatami: Are you training at Xtreme Couture? How is your training there?

Dan Hardy: Yeah, training is going really well here. The training partners and coaches are world class and every session brings a new challenge. I’m getting my ass kicked every day and improving all the time. It’s the place to be if you are serious about being successful in the sport.

Planet Tatami: Talk about your beginning in the MMA.

Dan Hardy: I started martial arts when I was six years old but it wasn’t until I spent two months in China training with the Shaolin monks back in 2002 that i decided to pursue a career in MMA. I came back and started doing amateur MMA tournaments and then had my professional debut in 2004.

Planet Tatami: You have already lost to Yoshiyuki Yoshida by disqualification. Is there any chance you’ll face him again now that you’re also in the UFC?

Dan Hardy: That’s up to the UFC to decide but if it was offered to me I definitely wouldn’t turn it down. It’s a loss on my record that shouldn’t be there and a chance to get the win that should be there would be great.

I was recently able to speak with EliteXC middleweight champion “Ruthless” Robbie Lawler coming off the heels of his successful defense against Scott Smith on CBS two weeks ago.

Lawler is know for being all-business when interacting with the media, and my interview with him wasn’t much different. However, he did indicate he could be returning sooner than some are expecting and he did speak out against a host of fighters that have recently called him out.

Lawler also discussed what it was like being let go by the UFC several years back and talks about what his current relationship is with UFC President Dana White.

Click here to read the interview in its entirety.

In Part I, we asked Champion his thoughts on the resignations of Doug DeLuca and Gary Shaw; whether Shaw’s son, EliteXC Vice President Jared Shaw would be remaining with the company; Champion’s business background before getting involved with MMA; whether a replacement for Shaw will be recruited outside the company; and more.

In Part II, Champion answers questions regarding what needs to happen in order for MMA to go to the next level; whether EliteXC will focus on going after established stars or up-and-coming fight prospects; whether the company’s plans for Sept. and Oct. are too ambitious; if the company can survive without pay-per-view revenue; what the future holds for ProElite.com; his thoughts on the most recent CBS show; and more.

Without further ado, we’ll present Part II after the jump, but feel free to click here and go back if you haven’t already read Part I.

Sam Caplan: The sport has come a long way but there are those who believe it has the potential to grow further. Doing things such as reality television like the UFC has done and going on primetime network television such as EliteXC has done, those have been two tremendous things that have happened to grow the sport. What are some other things you feel either need to happen or would like to see happen in order for the sport to go to the next level?

Chuck Champion: A couple of things. I think it’s going to take additional broadcast television (and) more events on broadcast TV to continue to promote and spread the sport. I think that we can do a better job amongst and in between — because there is no cooperation amongst and in between all the organizations out there — to promote the positive aspects of the sport (and) to work together. There are things that we can do collectively, together, to promote anti-violence, for example. And really positive agendas that position us as a good corporate citizen that in essence, a concept of “keep it in the cage,” that’s where all of this should be done (and) not outside of the cage.

I think we can do a lot more in that regard to help our “image” of this just being a bunch of brawlers just getting in and kicking the living hell out of each other. One senator said a long time ago the famous remark about it being “human cockfighting.” It’s anything but that. And we just haven’t done a good job of promoting the fact that these guys are star athletes; these are some of the best-trained human beings on the face of the Earth. If you look at the end of the events, after two guys or two girls go out it as hard as they have, and the sportsmanship that they show… it’s all about discipline and it’s all about that culture. And we don’t do enough to promote that and educate people for that. I think that there’s a lot more we can do cooperatively on that front.

There’s a time for us to compete with one another and then there’s a time for us to cooperate in the best interest of this sport, which will only lead to every one’s economic viability and thrivance moving forward. Again, it’s around education and it’s around inner-cooperation and it’s around promoting that. And then it’s getting in front of more eyeballs a lot faster than we have in the past.

Sam Caplan: You have a track record of turning businesses around. When you first joined ProElite, what did you feel were the biggest changes that needed to be made?

Chuck Champion: Focus, focus, and more focus. It was stereotypical of a startup organization. It was trying to do everything all at once with a lack of prioritization and focus. We tried to launch a very ambitious fight division and a greater ambition around the Internet. Then a worldwide expansion and a DVD and music. I mean, just a hundred different projects that exceeded the bandwidth of the management team. As good as the management team was, it exceeds the bandwidth and you start getting all these things started and unfortunately, financially and intellectually, you can’t support them.

That’s stereotypical — at least in my experience — of where there’s problems at an early juncture of a startup; your appetite is bigger than your ability to digest it. And that’s what I saw when I came into ProElite. It grew so damn fast that in certain areas it got beyond their bandwidth and so which you will see me doing, and what hasn’t been visible, is us sitting there and getting back to the core of what this is: this is about being a fight company that produces some of the best events on the face of the Earth.

Someone said “How are you going to position yourself in a market where there’s already a guy that has a first-mover’s advantage and has a tremendous amount of resources behind him?” And the answer simply is, first of all, rule number one, if the shoe fits; steal it. They’ve made a number of mistakes, let’s not repeat those mistakes. They’ve had successes, don’t be embarrassed by knocking those successes off and innovating and doing them better. Ford (and) General Motors were much larger than Toyota… once. Not now. Because they learned how to innovate. They learned how to take the best of the best and make it better. And that’s what we intend to do.

We’ve got some of the best on our management team. But look at our fighters. We’ve got some great stars in that group. We’ve got superstars in that group. We’ve got great fighters in that group. And we’re going to concentrate on fights. We’re going to go out and get more fighters. We’re going to put on more fights. We’re going to make those fights more profitable. We’re going to develop our relationship further with CBS and SHOWTIME. And we’re going to become pre-emminient in that area, for both hardcore fans who look at our fights and say “These are damn good MMA matchups. These are real serious guys who are fighting real serious fights.” And they’re entertaining. Because for the mass markets, they truly need to be entertaining for as much as we can get them as well.

Then you’ll see us stage the rest of everything else we do. We still have an Internet. We’re still going to have an Internet. At some point we’re going to blow that out but at this point it’s not the moment in which we’re going to try and compete with Sherdog, Five Ounces of Pain, and all these other sites that do some good work. That’s not where we’re going to compete today. We’ll compete there eventually (and) we’ll complement them eventually, but we’re going to focus on fighting. We’re going to build it up.

You’re going to see us find more female fighters because we believe in them. We think it’s appropriate. It’s one place where we disagree with our friends. We think that women do belong in there and we intend to provide that opportunity. If you want to see them, there are plenty of great female fighters and we’ve got them. And we intend to exploit that and use that.

Sam Caplan: When ProElite first came onto the scene, they made a huge initial investment in the Internet. Looking back the returns are not there. You can see it in the SEC filings. Do you think it was a mistake for ProElite to invest so heavily in the Internet?

Chuck Champion: I think it was extremely ambitious. I love the idea that underpins it. I love what they were thinking of doing. I love a lot of the feature and functionality that they’ve built. I think that you couldn’t have gotten some of the people involved in it that got involved in it the way we got involved if we didn’t have a big vision. You don’t get some of the talent that we got and attracted to it to build what we built. Did it cost us a lot of money? Absolutely it cost us a lot of money. Could we potentially have staged it differently and not blown it out as quickly and been more conservative and built it in a way where we’d be spend money and reaping more benefits sooner? The answer is yes. Would I have like to have done it differently? Yes. Would everyone involved in it want to do it differently? Yes. But I don’t think the overall idea down the road is going to be bad. If things work out as I plan and I hope as the company is looking at it, that some day you’ll see those streams come to fruition. But let there be no bones made about this: that is not what we’re going to be emphasizing, particularly over the next twelve months.

Sam Caplan: You mentioned a few answers ago that you’ll be focusing more on the fight aspect of ProElite and that you’re going to be bringing in more fighters. Are the fighters EliteXC is looking to bring in younger, lesser established names with upside or will EliteXC look at more established names such as Tito Ortiz, and fighters of that nature?

Chuck Champion: I’m not trying to duck the question; I think it’s a combination of both. There are guys out there that people want to see that they know and who have moved to different places in their career at this point or are about ready to make career changes. We want to be involved in those conversations.

Sure, do we want to talk to a Tito Ortiz and see if there’s a possibility that there’s something ProElite and Tito can work out when it’s appropriate and not interfering in any of his contracts with anyone else? You’re damn right we do and we’d be stupid if we didn’t have that conversation. Do we want to sit there and groom the brightest talent as it’s beginning to matriculate up through the MMA communities and identify and grab the stars of tomorrow early? Absolutely we want to do that.

What we want to do is create an organization where fighters recognize that they are very, very, very important to us. With the fans, they are everything to us. We believe we treat our fighters better than anyone treats their fighters. We will show them the respect that they deserve for who they are and what they are. We want them to be our partners in this process.

That’s not to say we’re just going to sit there and go for the ride with people. We’re not. We’re in custody of our own destiny in partnerships with our fighters. So we truly are looking for both and again, we’re not only looking domestically, we’ll look internationally. As you know, we’ve got a number of Brazilians; we’re looking at Europeans; and all over the world to get people that are exciting and great fighters. It’s a multi-dimensional approach. It’s not one size fits all. And what we’re not just going to do is get one or get the other — we’re going out and getting both. And actually, we think we can do both.

Sam Caplan: Does EliteXC have the capital needed to go after someone like Tito Ortiz, Frank Trigg, or a Jason Miller? Is the funding that EliteXC needs to be successful in place right now?

Chuck Champion: You know, we don’t have a billionaire sitting behind us if that’s what you’re asking. Sitting there and writing checks as he did early on in the process. So it’s not like we have a “rich owner.” But we have got a strategic partner in CBS and SHOWTIME — guys that I am absolutely convinced will help and assist us and be able to provide things to our fighters that others simply can’t. Look at the CBS empire. It’s massive. It’s huge. And being associated with that is going to be huge for our fighters on a go-forward basis.

Sam Caplan: I want to ask you about the July 26 CBS show. There are reports that the final rating will be anywhere between a 1.7 and a 1.9 and MMAjunkie.com is reporting that less than 50% of tickets to the Stockton Arena were sold even though the arena looked full. From ProElite’s perspective, was the show a success? And have you been able to talk to CBS and get their feeling about the show?

Chuck Champion: First of all, the 5/31 show was phenomenal. I don’t think anybody can question or doubt that 5/31 was phenomenal. We had our best stars — our superstars on the card. We had great fights. It’s 5/31 and all of the promotion that came out of CBS for that event, we were running commercials during the Final Four and other sporting events appealing to the 18-34 demographic.

We had four months to promote the event and again, to bring our best people. There were great storylines. We came back very quickly after that. We had a very short period of time to promote 7/26. We get a great venue in Stockton. It’s a great venue in Stockton. I mean, it’s a beautiful arena. A great facility. But the reality is opposed to being 20 minutes away from 8 million people, it’s 50 minutes away from the next 1 million people. If you look at what the Sacramento numbers did in the rating, it had a 10 share! So in the markets where we promoted the hell out of the show, TV got a great audience from it. Did that make ticket sales more difficult? Yes it did. But we balanced that. And the estimates you’re hearing are not fully accurate.

But no, did we sell out the crowd for the full face amount? No. Did we expect to? No. Did we hit the targets we expected to? Absolutely. And did we set ourselves up for October 4 really well? Absolutely. I thought that Jeremy Lappen, J.D. Penn, J.T. Steele, and Turi (Altavilla) and all the guys on the fight team just did a phenomenal job running three hours of great fights.

It was the first time in history that we had a SHOWTIME and CBS event hooked up like that going from premium TV to national TV. I think we did that extremely well and we knocked out a lot of bugs in production that existed that we at ProElite were creating for SHOWTIME and CBS. We knocked those out and we got a lot smoother. I think it was very much a success. I think that people that were at the event had a helluva great time. I know I did. The place was electrifying to me and I think that the other 7,000 people that were in that building got to see great fights.

Good audience numbers. Not great audience numbers. But 2.6 million people? Against a number of other things besides just the date in the summer. And this is great; I don’t think it’s going to work for them long-term but g-d bless you for trying. But we must have really gotten their attention because now they are counter-programming. If you’re not worried about somebody, you sure aren’t doing stuff like that. That’s the only thing I’ll say. I don’t pay attention to anybody. I pay attention as far as staying on my game. And when you can get the competitor to worry about you and start altering its business model and start changing its game plan as radically as they did; counter-programming and talking about us left and right… that tells me we’ve got somebody worried. Which tells me we’re onto something.

Sam Caplan: Can EliteXC survive in the long-term if it doesn’t start making inroads into pay-per-view within the next 6-8 months?

Chuck Champion: Certainly it’s got to. Certainly it’s got to reduce its expenses and increase its revenues. We’re going through the process of raising additional money and then to set us up for pay-per-view in 2009. But the answer is will ProElite survive? You’re damn right it will. There’s no doubt in my mind that this isn’t going to be another casualty on this road. I think it’s different. I think it’s positioned differently. I think that it’s got great strategic partners in CBS and SHOWTIME and it’s got the intellectual property inside the building to make this work. And we’re making those adjustments to insure that. That’s what in large measuring this is all about; to take it to the next step.

Sam Caplan: Coming up EliteXC has shows scheduled for Sept. 20, Sept. 26, Oct. 4 and I’ve heard rumbling there could be a ShoXC event towards the end of October. Is that too ambitious of schedule for such a young promotion? Not even the UFC is really running a schedule that ambitious right now.

Chuck Champion: No, actually I don’t think it is. Again, we have a tremendous amount of resources in the other assets we’ve purchased. We’ve got a good, strong fight team that are some of the most motivated people I have ever worked with. They love the sport. And so this is a great building experience for us. There is nothing like building team through task. If you want to get something done, give it to the busiest guy you can find.

And that’s what’s going on at ProElite right now. People are all over it. Yeah, are they coming in early and are they staying late? Are they working six and seven days a week? Are they sacrificing vacations? Are they asking their families for understanding as they go through this period of time over these six fights? They are. But they are excited about it and the neat part about it is that we’re meeting on a daily basis and with the process that’s going on, they are seeing things that they can do better and they are building those into the model.

So not only do I think we can do those fights, but I think each subsequent fight card will only get better and it’s only going to make us stronger. It forces us to go out and find more talent quicker. It forces us to do a lot of things and again, they are not distracted with five or six other priorities. This company understands what it’s got to do in order to win. It’s got to put on great fights with great fighters. And that’s what we’re going to do and that’s what we’re going to concentrate on.

Sam Caplan: I recently read an article on MMAPayout.com and there is some speculation that as the second largest shareholder in ProElite, CBS and SHOWTIME has a growing influence on the company and that they are possibly influencing some major decisions right now in regards to the direction of ProElite.

Chuck Champion: We talk to our partners at SHOWTIME and CBS on a regular basis. And it’s just that: a partnership. They have one representative on our board, which is contractual and its’ Ken Hershman of SHOWTIME who understands this sport and understands what we’re doing. He’s been tremendously supportive. There has been no dictates; edicts; demands. There’s been no undue influence on us. It’s been a good, strong collaboration. They believe in us. They want this to be successful. They want it to be financially successful for us because they are investors in the company (and) they hold debt on the company. So they want us to be successful. They are working to help us be successful. They are committed to the process.

And then obviously they have their own vested interest on their broadcast side to see this be successful. It reaches a demographic that is highly desirable (and) that they want to achieve success around. This could be a delineator for that and they are working through that with us to make it a tremendous success. So any kind of speculation that they have the hands on the steering wheel and have shoved us to the back seat is crap. What they’re doing is talking to us about the direction; the road map; the destination (and) making sure there is enough gas in the tank and then rooting us on the whole damn way to make sure we get to where we say we’re going to go. I’m delighted with our relationship with these guys.

While Champion has been involved with the company for several months, the MMA media is just now starting to become more aware of his presence. But just who is Chuck Champion and is he the right man to navigate ProElite and EliteXC through the rough financial waters of the MMA industry?

While Champion did not have a prior background in MMA before joining ProElite, he had earned a strong reputation in the business community as a turnaround specialist. He initially made a name for himself in the newspaper industry, helping several papers in major markets gain market share on their competitors. Champion rose to even greater prominence after entering the technology sector in 2002 upon joining YouBet.com as its eventual Chairman.

YouBet, an online site horse racing wagering, was struggling mightily at the time. At the time of Champion’s arrival, published reports indicate that YouBet’s wager processing level was $110 million. Largely under Champion’s guidance, the company increased revenue by 930% over a five year period and went on to become a success story in spite of many online companies falling by the wayside after the dotcom bubble had burst. By 2006, reports state that the company was processing $750 million in wagers.

Fast forward to present day and the 54-year old father of six once again finds himself in a turnaround situation. While ProElite has made great strides by landing corporate partners such as SHOWTIME and CBS, it’s a company that has lost over $30 million since its 2006 inception. Needless to say, Champion has his work cut out for himself.

Despite a busy schedule, Champion recently took time out to speak with FiveOuncesOfPain.com for his first exclusive interview since joining ProElite earlier this year. In spite of not having a fighting background, Champion is not one to pull punches and was quite candid during our conversation, sharing his thoughts on the resignation of DeLuca and former EliteXC Live Events President Gary Shaw; whether Shaw’s resignation was voluntary or involuntary; if Vice President Jared Shaw will remain with the company; whether ProElite has the finances necessary to pursue big-name talent; what his role as the company’s Chairman and CEO entails; his thoughts on UFC President Dana White; whether he considers the company’s most recent CBS show to be a success; and much, much more in what is without question the most extensive interview ever conducted by Five Ounces of Pain.

Sam Caplan: I wanted to ask you about the recent resignations of both Doug DeLuca and Gary Shaw. Is there than meets the eye or were they something that’s been planned for awhile? In short, what’s your perspective on the two resignations?

Chuck Champion: They are two resignations in the context of a much bigger plan for ProElite. And I can tell you that both resignations were voluntary, and what personal factors entered into them I will direct you back to DeLuca and Shaw. These guys started this company approximately 18 months ago after having thought about it for three or four months before that so it’s been a two year journey.

They’ve taken the company to the level it’s at. They’ve brought a tremendous number of assets. They’ve brought in a great fight team and other good executives into the company. And they’ve positioned the company extremely well to go to the next step and this is part of that process. It’s a public company and they recognize that their skill sets are around startups and a love of the sport and they don’t want to see ProElite do anything but succeed.

Collectively, we all believe bringing in now additional help with different requisite skill sets to take this company to the next level and insure its success on a road that has had many, many failures.

Sam Caplan: In regards to Shaw, even before the resignation, it seemed as though his role within the company had been reduced. His son, Jared Shaw, a Vice President with the company, had mentioned that it was Gary Shaw’s decision to take a step back. Was that true or was there encouragement from the company for Gary to take a step back?

Chuck Champion: Gary Shaw will be the first to tell you that he is an entrepreneur and that living in a public company is an entirely different world. Adapting to that world was something that Gary was working on. It wasn’t always the most comfortable place. But Gary has been exceedingly successful in virtually everything he’s tried, and I would include this (MMA).

I think I’d rather have Gary speak to some of the personal issues around what kind toll this took on his life in terms of family, friends, his other business in boxing, and the rest of it. And to also have him talk about what it was like to make a change from working in an entrepreneurial world to having to work in an intra-prenurial role as an executive of a large public company.

There’s no secret that Gary and I, for example, went head-to-head and toes-to-toes over a number of issues. But those issues have frankly been resolved in the best interest of the company. And I can tell you that I have a tremendous amount of respect of what Gary has done for this company and what Gary will do for this company on a forward basis.

Sam Caplan: I wanted to know if you could elaborate on your answer about the difficulty Gary Shaw faced in going from an entrepreneurial role to an intra-prenurial role.

Chuck Champion: Sure. This guy has had nothing his entire life given to him. Nothing. Everything Gary Shaw has in his life, he’s earned or he’s been in a battle with someone else and he’s taken it. And the one thing that Gary Shaw is not is a lap dog, and certainly not a lap dog to millionaires. Shaw is who Shaw is and his successes are ones that he’s made. But again, he’s nobody’s lap dog; he’s not my lap dog. He ain’t a lap dog for nobody, including billionaires.

Sam Caplan: With Gary Shaw taking a step back, will Jared Shaw remain with the company?

Chuck Champion: Jared has been with the company from the beginning. Gary has often said that it was really Jared that brought Gary into it. Jared has continued to work on making matches and continue to promote ProElite and ProElite athletes. He’s continuing to work with the fight team. I haven’t talked to Jared about what he’s going to be doing ten years from now but I have talked to Jared about what he’s going to be doing for the next while with us. He’s enthusiastic and others are enthusiastic about his approach and what he’s doing now, so we think that is all going to work out well.

Sam Caplan: Since the company’s inception it seemed as though Gary Shaw was the go-to guy when it came to the fight team. With him now in a consultant’s role, has anyone stepped up in his place?

Chuck Champion: As I said earlier, Gary has really assembled a great group of guys and women to help us in this area. And as Gary pulled back from the day-to-day running of the operation, he was still in constant contact with me and with the company providing advice and suggestions. So now we’ve got a couple of guys; Jeremy Lappen has been around the sport for a long, long time. He worked the CBS event and I think that people recognized what a great event it was and in the arena how smooth the event was. The production looked great.

So with Jared and Rich Chou, T. Jay Thompson, and others helping and putting cards together with Jeremy and Turi (Altavilla) — there’s just a lot of experience in the building (and) a lot of great guys working really well together to bring the best experience to the fan.

Sam Caplan: Is the fight team that’s in place set or will ProElite possibly look to bring in someone to head the fight team and assume Gary Shaw’s previous role?

Chuck Champion: First of all, we are already bringing in others to help and assist — but they are already in the company. We went around the world and bought several brands and with those brands we brought with them good executives. Terry Trebilcock has really come up and is lending his support and his advice and his King of the Cage assets to the party.

Again, T. Jay out of ICON and J.D. (Penn) out of Rumble World with Rich Chou are all bringing their expertise and talents to the table. If you’re asking if we’ve got to search the world and try to find a fight operations guy — I feel very confident in the team we have on the ground right now.

(We’re) communicating slightly different. Responsibilities are parched out somewhat different. I expect that we’re going to be extremely successful with the guys that we’ve got. And again, Shaw has resigned as an executive of the company. He’s resigned as the president of the division. But Shaw has got a consulting contract with us (and) we have access to use him. He’s committed to help us in that regard. I just need not to travel his ass from pillar to post and burn him up in the process as well. I’ve got to be mindful of that.

Sam Caplan: I read an article on MMAjunkie.com written by Steve Sievert and Sievert mentioned that in light of the resignations that there is a void within ProElite when it comes to leadership. Do you agree with that sentiment?

Chuck Champion: If you’re saying the guy at the top of the organization now — the Chairman and the CEO of the company — doesn’t have an in-depth background in MMA, the guy is absolutely 100% right. But I’m surrounded by people who have been in this sport since its inception and have been executive positions, managerial positions, and leadership positions from the very beginning. So I have tremendous resources around me that understand the sport (and) I’ve reached out to a lot of icons in the sport to help educate me to what it is important; to what are the mistakes made by others; where are the opportunities that have been missed.

I’m a believer that G-d gave me two ears and one mouth so that I can listen twice as much as I can talk. So I am absorbing it, I think fairly quickly. I think I’m getting the excitement of it. I can tell you, I am excited to be in it. I think that it’s not only huge today but I think that it’s going to be unbelievably huge. When you listen to large advertisers that say when they poll their audience that the number three sport behind basketball and football among the male 18-34 demographic is MMA, I think that’s amazing.

And it’s growing larger. Look at what happened on 5/31. The reason why the ratings aren’t as great on the 7.26 date, just look at those numbers (from 5/31); they’re fabulous. The sport is growing (and) it’s going to be huge. Just absolutely huge.

Sam Caplan: Since joining ProElite you’ve flown under the radar and haven’t taken on a major public role. Was that by design? And if so, with DeLuca having resigned are there plans for you to come out into the forefront a little bit more?

Chuck Champion: I think where my greatest skillset is that I’m an operator. And I work with executives inside companies to get their models right and to ensure financial success and to make sure that their products and services are the best products and services that can be consumed. You’ll find me in the forefront when it’s appropriate but I think that there are other people in the company that can do a great job for the company at promoting the fighters and promoting the fights and talking about the products and the services that we offer in the sport that we’re in.

So are you going to see me try and step up and fill the large shoes of Gary Shaw? Hell no. I’m not Gary Shaw and I don’t pretend to be and I don’t want to be. That’s not what I do. I run companies (and) I grow businesses. And I try to produce things that people want to buy in large numbers and I try work quietly and candidly more behind the scenes. And I don’t think a sport is about companies. I don’t think it’s about owners. I think it’s about fighters and I think it’s about fans. And I think that’s where we delineate ourselves from our competition.

It ain’t about us — it’s about those guys that get in the cage. It’s about the guys that put their nuts on the line. Every time they do — or the gals that go in there and fight their hearts out, that’s what this is about. That’s what needs to get camera time. Not guys like me who basically are there to make sure the financial underpinnings of the business are in good shape.

Sam Caplan: I want to ask a direct followup to that response. Do you feel that the way UFC President Dana White carries himself and projects himself out to the media, do you feel that’s healthy for the long-term growth of the UFC?

Chuck Champion: I think that Dana White brings a tremendous amount of attention to our sport. I think Dana White can be extremely entertaining and I think people like to listen to what he has to say. So anybody feels that he hasn’t been a force of change in this industry is making a mistake. I’m not suggesting he has, others have, I have not because I’ve never met him and don’t know him — but I think that if you think that if you’re bigger than the guys who go in that cage and do what they do; if you think that your organization is bigger than the fans that you serve — I don’t care whether you’re in this business — I don’t care what business you’re in — then at some point you’re destined to fail if you think it’s about you when it isn’t about you. It’s about everyone else.

It’s about those fans that buy those tickets, put their asses in those seats, buy the merchandise, and support those fighters. It’s about the men and women who show courage. It’s just unbelievable to me the dedication and commitment that these athletes make. I don’t have the guts to do what they do. Never did and never will and don’t pretend I do.

Sam Caplan: A lot of people in the MMA community aren’t familiar with you. Can you educate the MMA public about your business background?

Chuck Champion: I’m a son of a milkman. Not the milkman; a milkman. I learned how to start working when I was 14-years old. I graduated high school when I was 16 1/2 and got my own place. I was raised by a mother who worked two jobs and taught me what it was to work hard.

I started in the newspaper business when I was 19-years old and fortunately got a break there as a B-to-C executive. Basically, a sales and marketing and distribution and logistics guys inside of a newspaper on the circulation side. And (I) spent 30 years in the newspaper business either selling advertising, selling circulation, or managing the business. Most of those were newspapers that were second in the marketplace and also were turnaround situations. So basically my skill sets were developed by managing large organizations who were at a competitive disadvantage and turnaround situations.

I then went into the Internet because I didn’t think in terms of everything that was going on that print was going to be as dominant (and I thought) that the Internet was going to explode. And it’s really a lot of friends trying to educate me to that. So I got out and got into the Internet and of all things, I got into horse racing on the Internet. Another turnaround situation.

So when I came to ProElite, I came from situations where I honestly felt I had the skill sets that I developed over my entire career. Really, all of them were going to be put to use. Public company experience as a CEO and Chairman; a turnaround situation where the business model needed to be worked on; (and) up against a strong competitor that was already embedded. And so that’s why I feel my skill sets are uniquely applicable to this company today. Five years from now? Who knows. It depends on how the company grows and where it grows to and whether it makes sense for a guy like me to still be here. But right now, today, where the company is positioned and where the company’s potential is, I think that’s experience is going to come in handy.

Sam Caplan: When you were first approached about getting involved with ProElite as the company’s CEO, what was your initial reaction about transitioning into the MMA industry?

Chuck Champion: I didn’t know anything about it. I’m embarrassed to say it, but I never watched “The Ultimate Fighter.” I never watched a UFC event. Yeah, I had read stories about it in the paper, but I never watched it. With six kids, there wasn’t any spare time. So I didn’t get into the sport. I came to it, and I probably had some reticence about it as a 54-year old non-demographic of the sport. “What the heck is this all about?” But the more I’ve gotten into it, quite frankly, the more excited I’ve become by it. Again, it’s around the dedication of the fighter. It’s around his skills. And the more I learn the different styles and the art of it and the science of it, the more I understand it and the more excited I get about it.

CLICK HERE TO READ PART II OF THIS INTERVIEW.

I interviewed “Big” Ben Rothwell for my CBSSports.com column this week. After dominating the IFL for over two years, Rothwell will be given an opportunity tonight to assert himself as an undisputed top-ten heavyweight when he takes on former UFC heavyweight champion Andrei Arlovski.I discussed a number of topics with Rothwell, including his thoughts on the UFC utilizing several former IFL fighters; why he chose Affliction over other potential suitors; how disagreements are handled within a fight gym; and more.

Of course, we also talked in-depth about tonight’s fight with “The Pitbull,” and Rothwell indicated he believes he’s going to see a little of the old Arlovski along with a little of the new Arlovski.

Ben Rothwell: I don’t think people looked at a lot of things. They didn’t look at the opponents. He was fighting Justin Eilers and Paul Buentello, two guys he knew were going to stand with him and weren’t going to try and take him down. He knew what he was dealing with and could be more aggressive. And then he fights guys like Fabricio Werdum and Jake O’Brien. All O’Brien wanted to do was take him down and Werdum is an expert on the ground and Arlovski probably didn’t want to be on the ground with them. You’re going to fight different.

You look at how I fight and I was knocking guys out and then I fight Ricco Rodriguez and I fought a lot different too. I wanted to knock the guy out but I couldn’t make any mistakes and Arlovski dealt with the same thing, so I understand that. He was just in a position where he didn’t want to lose the fight, because losing it would have been worse than having a boring fight.

I think we’re going to have a mix of both (old Arlovski and new Arlovski). With me, he knows we’re going to stand up but at the same he knows he can’t make a mistake because I know and believe he knows how hard I hit. He knows he can hurt me too, but he doesn’t want to get hit by me, at all. And it might make him do things we’ve never seen him do before and I’m ready for that. So I’m really expecting an Andrei of both.

One other thing: if Rothwell pulls off the upset tonight, expect him to make a challenge to another prominent heavyweight during his post-fight interview.

CLICK HERE to read the interview in its entirety.

Paul Balsom: So how’s training going for you?

Jesse Taylor: Training’s going great. I got Thierry Sokoudjou, Dan Henderson, Fernando Gonzalez, the list goes on an on. I have world-class fighters to train with on a day-to-day basis.

PB: Can you address some of the rumors going around about some unrest among some of the fighters at Team Quest? Is there any truth to that?

JT: Yeah, I’m up at Team Quest now, training there. You’re going to have problems wherever you go, but it’s just normal stuff. Everything is pretty good.

PB: So as far as you go, you’re not going anywhere for a while, right?

JT: No, I’m trying to stay with Team Quest for a while, man. I definitely plan on staying with them for a very long time.

PB: Let’s rewind a bit back to the show. When Dana White pulled you back into the office of the training center after the incident in the hotel, did you have any idea what was going on?

JT: No, I showed up there and had no real idea of what was going on. They told me that it was just follow up interviews. Then they busted out the surveillance video and I saw the looks on their faces so I started to realize. So when Dana told me, it was obviously a big big bummer. It was just a huge letdown for me.

PB: We both know what was aired during that episode, in the interviews and in the footage, Dana White kind of made it seem like there was definitely no UFC in your future. Did he let on at all that he might give you a chance down the road?

JT: At first, he was telling me, “No more UFC” and then I think he saw my reaction, and he saw how devastated I was. Plus, you can’t deny the fact that I won all of my fights on the show. So, I guess there came a time when the UFC just decided to give me another chance.

PB: How long ago did you get that call from the UFC?

JT: It was right after the finale. I was at the finale and I saw Dana and talked to him for a little bit. I saw Joe Silva there, too. I just gave both of them another apology. I saw them both at an after-party and we all talked again. That Monday, Dana called me and asked if I wanted to fight on the 19th and I said “hell yeah.” He said, “Alright! Get in shape!” So later on, Joe Silva called me specifically about the date. They didn’t have an opponent yet, but yeah… that’s pretty much how it went.

PB: Did they mention C.B. at all in those conversations?

JT: Joe Silva still was trying to get in touch with him, but after he did, that’s when Joe told me it was a lock. At the time I didn’t even care. I know some may think that’s a bad mentality to have, but I just wanted to fight and didn’t care who my opponent was. I just wanted to get back to business.

PB: This is a pretty huge chance for you. What does that second chance mean to you?

JT: It means the world to me. I definitely want to be here for the long haul, so I need to get it together inside and outside of the cage to have a long career in the UFC. I want to stay here forever.

PB: Dana White’s been quoted as saying you entered an AA program since the show wrapped. What’s going on with that?

JT: I’ve been to a couple meetings here and there. I’m definitely not an alcoholic or anything like that. So I went to check it out to see what it’s all about.

PB: Do you think that whole issue was blown up over the course of the show? Do you think you have a problem, or are you just some twenty-something guy who likes to have a good time?

JT: It’s kind of just what you said, you know. I think it got blown up a bit. I think I got a little out of control at times, definitely. But the whole “Jesse being the drunk guy” thing is definitely not true.

PB: We all have our moments.

JT: Yeah, yeah! Everyone’s had them. It’s a horrible feeling, but I’m sure everyone’s been there. [Laughs] Mine was just on national T.V.!

PB: So tell me your thoughts about this match up with C.B..

JT: I don’t want to give out too much information on my game plan, but I’ve been working a lot of different areas, and I just feel like I’m ready for wherever the fight goes. I’m ready to go hard for the whole fight. I feel very good about this fight.

PB: You and C.B. both have that wrestling label on you. As far as the wrestling aspect of the game goes, do you have him beat in that?

JT: I think in a straight wrestling match, who knows. He beat me in college wrestling, however I feel like my wrestling has gotten better. Plus, there’s a big big difference between wrestling for MMA and just straight up wrestling. I think in MMA wrestling I’m far superior. I think I showed that on the show. So yeah, straight wrestling, I don’t know. My MMA wrestling is way better than his is though.

PB: Have you had any sort of communication with the UFC about how many fights you’re signed for? How’s that going to work out?

JT: I believe I’m under the same contract as all of the guys that do well on the show and they bring back. I think it’s a 3-year straight contract, and they just go with you until they don’t want you or you stop performing, and you’ll be released.

PB: Tell me your thoughts on the Rampage vs. Forrest fight.

JT: I think it was a good decision, personally. Not even because Forrest was my coach or anything. I think Forrest was more active, and Rampage just seemed much more tired than Forrest.

PB: Rampage was very quick to concede to Forrest on the broadcast, but apparently after, he was apparently saying that he thought he should have won. Do you think that’s legit, or he’s just hyping a rematch?

JT: I think that it was definitely a good enough fight for a rematch. It’s hard… I think maybe both. They pretty much got along on the show though, so it’s hard to gauge.

PB: I definitely appreciate you taking some time out. I wish you luck in your second chance in the UFC, and in your fight on Saturday.

JT: Thanks a lot! Cool man, have a good one.

After his exodus from the UFC, canceled fights, frustration and almost nine straight months of training; Renato ‘Babalu’ Sobral took some time to talk with Five Ounces of Pain about his upcoming fight at Affliction: Banned against Mike Whitehead, training, Lyoto Machida and his desire as a competitor to fight.

Dave Carpinello: How did the training go for the upcoming fight?

Babalu Sobral: Great, slowing down, the hard part is done.

Dave Carpinello: What do you know about your opponent; Mike Whitehead?

Babalu Sobral: He is an IFL veteran that has been around for a while. He is a good wrestler and he comes from a very good camp. I expect a very good fight.

Dave Carpinello: Do you see any advantages that you may have going into the fight?

Babalu Sobral: I trained a long time for this fight, I am hungry and healthy. I think that my submission game is going to be a big factor in the fight.

Dave Carpinello: How excited are you to finally have a fight that is not going to get canceled at the last minute?

Babalu Sobral: Yeah man, those last two times were bad. The first one in January was tough for me because it got canceled five hours before the fight. After that one my fight in HCF was canceled and so lately I haven’t wanted to answer the phones so that I don’t get any bad news. No matter who was calling me, whether it was my manager or my friends. I didn’t want to answer and I definitely didn’t want to look on the internet. If something happens and this fight next week doesn’t happen, then I’m going to go to the Army or something. I’ve been training for so long it has been kind of frustrating but everything seems to be in line with this fight and so hopefully there are no surprises. This fight is going to be great, the card is great and I am very happy to be a part of it. I can’t wait to fight and get back to my seat so that I can watch all of the other great fights that night.

Dave Carpinello: It is definitely the best heavyweight card I have ever seen.

Babalu Sobral: Yes, even the preliminary fights could be main card events. I think the whole show was good to be very exciting.

Dave Carpinello: Training with [Josh] Barnett, you must listen to some metal; Are you a MEGADETH fan?

Babalu Sobral: Yes, I have been listening to them since like 1986 or 1987. I am a hard-core metal fan and I’ve been listening to them for a long time. I’m very excited that they are playing at the show. I don’t know if they are playing before or after my fight but I’d definitely like to be in the stadium to see them. It would kick ass if I got to fight right after they played. I really can’t wait for Saturday the 19th to get back in the ring and fight again in front of all the fans.

This interview brought to you by PunchDrunkGamer.com:

Dave Carpinello: I couldn’t agree more. So everything health-wise is great and you’re ready to go?

Babalu Sobral: Everything is perfect in my weight is right at 205, so I don’t have to worry about cutting weight.

Dave Carpinello: Yes, I could imagine after training for nine months straight that you’d probably be pretty close to fighting weight by now.

Babalu Sobral: Yes it is going to be great because I will not have to sit my ass in the sauna for four or five hours next Friday. My training is fucking hard-core right now, from my boxing – sparring, jiu-jitsu (at Gracie Barra) and my overall training with Josh Barnett. He is amazing, strong and he trains very hard.

Dave Carpinello: Is Josh pretty amped about his fight against [Pedro] Rizzo?

Babalu Sobral: Yes and I can’t wait till after my fight so I can be in his corner for his fight. Josh is a monster!

Dave Carpinello: When I talked to Josh a couple weeks ago he said that “we’ll be Damaged Incorporated and go out there and bust some heads open”.

Babalu Sobral: Exactly. [laughs] We have both been training very hard. Josh, just fought two months ago and then had a pro-wrestling match about a month ago. That is how the old fighters like to do it. The ‘Pond’ where they are having the Affliction event is right by my house and I drive by it every day to go to training. And so every day I think about what I’m going to do in that arena when I fight their next week. This fight is going to be in my backyard.

Dave Carpinello: So obviously you are hoping to have more fights this year after this one.

Babalu Sobral: I want to get back on track, both winning and fighting. I do not like to be away from fighting for as long as I had to be this time. I am from the old days; I could fight every month if they would let me.

Dave Carpinello: Did you sign a multi-fight deal with Affliction?

Babalu Sobral: I did and so I should also be fighting on their second and third card.

Dave Carpinello: With about a week left; what preparation do you have left?

Babalu Sobral: Just rest, everything is in line; may be some shadowboxing and just try and get back my energy from all of the hard training. No hard sparring any more, no hard training anymore, just stay healthy. It is better to take it easy than to be sorry, anything can happen and I don’t want any kind fluke injury to occur that would cause me to miss this fight. If I could just lock myself in my house and wait for the fight I would.

Dave Carpinello: Last time we talked, we stirred up a little controversy. Regarding Lyoto Machida and Tito Ortiz, Machida recently beat Ortiz. Have you guys talked recently?

Babalu Sobral: I’ve trained with Machida a couple of times recently and he is getting better and better. He should be getting a title shot against Forrest Griffin; I don’t see anybody left to challenge him. It would be great to see him fight for the title because he beat Tito, he beat Sokoudjou, for me he is the number one contender.

Dave Carpinello: What about a Machida – Wanderlei Silva match-up?

Babalu Sobral: Wanderlei lost to Chuck [Liddell] and only has one win on his back so far in the UFC this time. Maybe if he fought and won one more fight, than the match-up would make more sense. The winner of the Rashad Evans and Chuck fight will also be in title picture, so it is going to be interesting to see the match-ups. I would like to see Wanderlei against Quintin Jackson again.

Dave Carpinello: Who did you think won the fight between Jackson and Griffin?

Babalu Sobral: What can I say? To beat the champion you have to really beat the champion. It did not happen in that fight, Forrest barely won the fight. He won the fight but he did not beat the champion…. like four rounds to one or five rounds to none. As far as the rules are concerned though, he won three rounds and now Forrest is the champion. Both of those fighters deserve to be champion. That was a pretty cool fight though! Both fighters looked like they were having a good time out there.

Dave Carpinello: Back to your event next week; besides your fight what other fight are you really looking forward to seeing?

Babalu Sobral: All of them, almost any fight on that card could be the main event.

Dave Carpinello: Cool, is or anything else he wanted to add?

Babalu Sobral: Not much, thanks for the interview and I hope all the fans are watching the great event next weekend.

]]> http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/11/babalu-this-fight-is-going-to-be-in-my-backyard/feed/ 10 http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/06/28/5-oz-of-pain-on-cbs-sports-interview-with-ufc-welterweight-dustin-hazelett/ http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/06/28/5-oz-of-pain-on-cbs-sports-interview-with-ufc-welterweight-dustin-hazelett/#comments Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:11:38 +0000 Sam Caplan http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/06/28/5-oz-of-pain-on-cbs-sports-interview-with-ufc-welterweight-dustin-hazelett/ Amir Sadollah garnered a lot of deserved press last week for winning the middleweight tournament for the seventh season of “The Ultimate Fighter.” However, the biggest winner at last week’s finale might have been up and coming welterweight Dustin Hazelett.

Hazelett, a member of Team Jorge Gurgel, won bonuses for both “Submission of the Night” and “Fight of the Night.” Despite the fact that his upset victory against Josh Burkman was not televised, the performance still helped elevate Hazelett’s profile and the event essentially served as his coming out party.

But what do we know about this 22-year old prospect? Not much. So I sat down and interviewed Hazelett for my CBSSports.com column this week and learned a great deal about him as a person.

You can now check out the interview by clicking here. I think it is a great read that you’ll enjoy, but you don’t have to take my word for it. You know it’s a good interview when even Fightlinker is giving us props:

… Caplan’s interviews for CBS are head and shoulders above the “Holy fuck this sucks” level most other interviews are at. Case in point: this awesome interview with Dustin “McLovin” Hazelett. Forget those cliche questions about training and UFC aspirations. This covers shit like worrying about your job… The whole thing is worth a read and really lets you get to know Hazelett as a person. Props.

(Photo by Esther Lin of CombatLifestyle.com)

Matt Makowski is one of the most down-to-Earth, humble 21-year olds you’ll ever meet. He’s the type of person who allows his actions to speak louder than words. As such, it was a little surprising to hear Makowski speak out during a recent interview with FiveOuncesOfPain.com regarding his recent fight vs. Nick Serra that took place during the undercard for “EliteXC: Primetime.” However, the frustration is more than justifiable. The EliteXC welterweight prospect expressed his disappointment that more people seem to be talking about Serra’s performance during their bout on May 31 as opposed to the dominant effort turned in by Makowski.

During the fight, Makowski broke Serra down with an onslaught of kicks to various regions of his body. A battered and bruised Serra ran out of steam and jumped guard towards the beginning of the second round. The problem was, he whiffed completely and was left sitting on the mat. He was told to get up and was warned about such a tactic. In spite of the warning, Serra jumped guard a second time soon after and missed again. This time referee Kevin Mulhall took a point away from Serra and told him he needed to get up or else the fight was going to be stopped. An exhausted Serra refused to answer Mulhall’s call and the fight was halted at 3:57 of round 2.

The win improved the recent college graduate’s record to a perfect 3-0. With his star on the rise, 5 Oz. recently caught up with Makowski for an interview.

Sam Caplan: You’re coming off a tremendous win during the undercard of EliteXC: Primetime. While it wasn’t on CBS, it was broadcast on the Internet. I know that CBSSports.com drew 30,000 unique visitors and I’m sure ProElite.com also recorded several thousand unique viewers too. Combine that with the video on demand, and a lot of people were able to see you fight. From your perspective, have you experienced an increase in notoriety?

Matt Makowski: As of right now, not really. From what I’ve seen on the Internet, most of the talk has been about Nick and his performance in the fight rather than what happened with me and what I did. Immediately after though, there were a lot of people coming up to me to congratulate me.

Sam Caplan: Your performance vs. Nick Serra was outstanding. Yet it seems a lot of people are spending more energy talking about Serra’s antics as opposed to how well you performed. I guess it’s safe to assume you agree with that assessment. How did you feel with how he performed during the second round of that fight?

Matt Makowski: I had a lot of respect for Nick going into the fight and I still have respect for him, however, I don’t know if he was just doing his whole monkey gimmick with his arms down. The reason why he dropped was because his leg hurt, not so much because he was giving up. It was pretty much a submission. You wouldn’t think less of someone for tapping out to a choke or an armlock or something. And the same thing kind of applies here; Nick just couldn’t get up from the leg kicks.

Sam Caplan: The Serra name is well respected in MMA. I hate to put you on the spot, but did his refusal to continue cause you to lose respect for him?

Matt Makowski: I know his arms were down and all, but if you keep kicking anyone in the right spot… I hit him multiple times in the same spot and that will do it to anybody. That’s why I was throwing them, so that he would eventually not be able to keep putting weight on his leg and be able to stand up.

Sam Caplan: Did you get a chance to speak with him after the fight?

Matt Makowski: After the fight was all said and done, he came up to me and gave me a hug but he really didn’t say a word. I just think he’s a quiet guy because we didn’t exchange words at all.

Sam Caplan: Serra showed up for the fight and only weighed 167 lbs. There was a rumor two weeks out before the fight that his camp was claiming the fight was at 160 lbs., which prompted some to believe they were looking for a way out. Did you hear any of those rumors?

Matt Makowski: I did, and we kind of thought the same thing. We found it odd; pretty much all of his fights have been at 170 or higher and the fact that his camp was asking for the fight at 160 when it was in the contract that it was at 170, we were a little curious about that.

Sam Caplan: You perhaps had the best entrance of the night, coming out dressed as one of the Road Warriors. What inspired you to put a little extra into your entrance?

Matt Makowski: I usually do entrances like that, so it wasn’t necessarily a counter to his entrance even though there was a lot of talk about that. A lot of people were egging me on and saying “You’ve got to do better than him!” and stuff. I’ve done wrestling-themed entrances before and to enter as the Road Warriors, I just thought it was an awesome idea. I thought it would give me a real cool look out there as I walked to the cage down the runway.

Sam Caplan: In the past I’ve seen you come out dressed as the Ultimate Warrior. There were no ropes for you to shake, so you shook the cage instead. And my wife trains at Philly MMA sometimes and she says there are times that while you’re training you put on pro wrestling videos.Obviously we know that you’re a Ultimate Warrior fan and a Road Warrior fan, but who were your other favorite wrestlers growing up?

Matt Makowski: I was a big Bret Hart fan as well as the Undertaker. It was just when I was younger, I used to watch WWE occasionally. I was just really into the whole showmanship of the sport and the entertainment value and things like that. So I pattern some of my MMA entrances around that as a way to pay homage to those athletes.

Sam Caplan: Do you still watch wrestling?

Matt Makowski: No, I don’t. Well, occasionally I will click on just to see just to kind of see how it is nowadays but I felt it kind of fell off in the ’90′s and it’s become a whole different thing.

Sam Caplan: When people think of top fight camps on the national scene, they think AKA, ATT, MFS, and Greg Jackson’s. However, Daddis Fight Camps is starting to make a name for itself. Can you tell us about the fighters you currently train with?

Matt Makowski: The trainers, Brad Daddis and Rigel Balsamico, we’ve got a lot of guys coming up like myself, Wilson Reis, Aaron Meisner — who was on “The Ultimate Fighter,” and Jon Murphy. We’ve also got a bunch of guys who are coming up through the amateurs that are just about ready to go pro. We’re trying to put Daddis Fight Camps on the map here in Philadelphia.

Sam Caplan: I’ve heard a rumor that you were an offensive lineman in high school, which struck me as odd because you fight at 170 lbs. Is that true?

Matt Makowski: Yes. A few years ago in high school I was probably walking around just under 200 lbs. So I was one of the quicker linemen; I was a center. It ended up working for me and the team.

Sam Caplan: So you were a 200 lbs. center. Who were you blocking for?

Matt Makowski: (Laughs) I graduated with Chad Henne, who was just recently drafted by the Miami Dolphins. I played football with him for three years at Wilson High School in Berks County.

Sam Caplan: Have you reached out and tried to contact him?

Matt Makowski: I haven’t. I would love to catch up with Chad sometime. I am really happy and excited that I can say I’ve accomplished my dream of being a professional athlete. Football was maybe first on the list but it didn’t work out, but I love MMA too so I’m still living my dream.

Sam Caplan: The Serra win was big for your career. You’re now 2-0 in EliteXC and you are still undefeated overall. What would you like to see happen next for you in your career?

Matt Makowski: I just want to fight more. Things are going pretty fast here. I’m fighting in a big organization like EliteXC and there’s pros and cons to that, where some guys might pad their record a little bit — maybe not necessarily on purpose but they might accumulate 5-6 wins before they even get to a top organization. And they have the benefit of the experience that comes with all those fights. As for myself, I don’t have six fights but I’m in a big organization. So I’m getting the exposure but I’m going to have to start fighting some higher-level guys right now with only three fights and being in EliteXC.

Sam Caplan: Is there anyone at 170 in EliteXC right now that you’d like to face?

Matt Makowski: No one in particular. I just want to keep fighting and keep climbing the ladder. The ultimate goal is definitely a title shot but that’s way down the road. I just want to take it one fight at a time and fight anyone they put in front of me.

Sam Caplan: If EliteXC approached you and your camp and offered you a chance to fight a Drew Fickett or a Jake Shields, at this stage of your career would you take the opportunity?

Matt Makowski: That’s a tough question right now. I would think I’d have to talk to my camp about it. I would consider it, for sure. I don’t feel that I am that far behind those guys as far as MMA skills go. But it might not be the best decision at this point in my career.